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Coaching Vs Talent

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Getting the players motivated to play at a high level

is just as important. Reich and Ballard have a good

cop/bad cop thing going on.

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If by better coaching you mean better play calling then I agree. It's fun watching the creative play calling on offense. I could almost call every play that was coming under Pagano. Of course it helps to have an OL but we are very unpredictable with our play calling. We will run when I think a pass is come and vice versa. Our calls on D are pleasing for the most part also

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Belichek has a GREAT QB.
And players talk about how well they are prepared each week.

Coach Reich and his staff are doing THAT kind of job it sure looks like.

With the experience gained this season, and yes a few more players, Our Colts ARE TRENDING UP. 
Next to being with Family, my Favorite Christmas gift.   :colts: 

  • no sarcasm
Edited by throwing BBZ
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4 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

Belichek has a GREAT QB.
And players talk about how well they are prepared each week.

Coach Reich and his staff are doing THAT kind of job it sure looks like.

With the experience gained this season, and yes a few more players, Our Colts ARE TRENDING UP. 
Next to being with Family, my Favorite Christmas gift.   :colts: 

  • no sarcasm

 

Are you Christopher Walken?

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14 minutes ago, SC-Coltsfan said:

If by better coaching you mean better play calling then I agree. It's fun watching the creative play calling on offense. I could almost call every play that was coming under Pagano. Of course it helps to have an OL but we are very unpredictable with our play calling. We will run when I think a pass is come and vice versa. Our calls on D are pleasing for the most part also

 

‘It’s not just play calling. 

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59 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Are you Christopher Walken?

Since tis the season...

 

Christopher Walken in a winter wonderland!

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2 hours ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

Obviously, you want to have talented players all over the field, but I believe coaching is what wins championships.  Every team has a few studs, but is made up of mostly average players.

 

Having high draft picks is nice, but not as important as some people think.  The teams with the best coaches are typically the ones in the playoffs, regardless of where they draft every year.

 

People have been saying the Colts are only a few players at certain positions away from being contenders, but here we are, knocking on the door, with an all new coaching staff.  Maybe we were just a few coaches away...  :thinking:

 

Ummmmmm.....

 

In case you haven’t noticed....   and apparently you haven’t....   this isn’t the same team that last years staff had.   Not even close.    It’s been completely reworked.

 

Did we have Andrew Luck last year?   How about Darius Leonard?   Quenton Nelson?   Braden Smith?    EricEbron?    There are many other new important players as well.

 

But yes...  coaching helps dramatically...    and the coaching has been GREAT this year.    Really terrific.  

 

Game in and game out, we mostly look well prepared and ready for our opponent.   And we’ve made good adjustments as well, as we did this week.

 

Can we please not turn a Christmas Day thread into yet another anti-Pagano thread?

 

Thank you and Merry Christmas and Happy Holudays to all!

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2 hours ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

Obviously, you want to have talented players all over the field, but I believe coaching is what wins championships.  Every team has a few studs, but is made up of mostly average players.

 

Having high draft picks is nice, but not as important as some people think.  The teams with the best coaches are typically the ones in the playoffs, regardless of where they draft every year.

 

People have been saying the Colts are only a few players at certain positions away from being contenders, but here we are, knocking on the door, with an all new coaching staff.  Maybe we were just a few coaches away...  :thinking:

I think you are underestimating the player additions we made this year and the return of Andrew.

Wed have been 4-12 with FranK Reich coaching us last year

 

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1 hour ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

‘It’s not just play calling. 

Exactly. Its the guy who's getting the play call.

4-12 to 10-6...….Andrew is worth about 6 games

 

 

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3 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

Exactly. Its the guy who's getting the play call.

4-12 to 10-6...….Andrew is worth about 6 games

 

 

 

It's not that simple either sorry. You guys seem to like to put blame on one thing or another instead of realizing it's a collective. Pagano and staff wouldn't be sitting at 9-6 not would he have won 8 out of 9 games to end the season.

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seems like yesterday that grigson was trying to end the Beast's Andrew luck's career .i know don't dwell on the past, but that sob should never work in the league, again.merry Xmas Ryan 

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I’ve always said that at least 80% of the players in the league are equally talented.  Meaning coaching makes the difference with them.  Look at Norwell, Glowinski, and others who weren’t considered too talented.  

 

It’s kind of obvious and proven when you look at most teams payrolls.  

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I don't think the Patriots have always had the most talented team on paper in the league, but what they have had is a solid amount of talent and some of the best coaching. You need talent to win in this league, but coaching matters just as much in my opinion.

 

And as others have said, it's more than just play calling. Game planning and trying to uncover the weaknesses of your opponent and how to expose said weaknesses happen long before you decide on the specific play calling. 

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they were lacking in talent last year though 

 

the line was among the worst in the league and our qb wasn't on the team until the season started.  i dont think any coach could have won with that

 

rookies have contributed heavily this year too, and guys like walker and wilson were never seen as day one starters 

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9 hours ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

Obviously, you want to have talented players all over the field, but I believe coaching is what wins championships.  Every team has a few studs, but is made up of mostly average players.

 

Having high draft picks is nice, but not as important as some people think.  The teams with the best coaches are typically the ones in the playoffs, regardless of where they draft every year.

 

People have been saying the Colts are only a few players at certain positions away from being contenders, but here we are, knocking on the door, with an all new coaching staff.  Maybe we were just a few coaches away...  :thinking:

 

Maybe we were "a healthy Luck" away?

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7 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Ummmmmm.....

 

In case you haven’t noticed....   and apparently you haven’t....   this isn’t the same team that last years staff had.   Not even close.

 

giphy.gif

 

This thread isn't about last years' team, or last years' coaches.  It's about THIS year.

 

People were saying we wouldn't be a contender until next year because we don't have enough talent yet.  Yet here we are.

 

I'm giving credit to our rookie coaches.  :hat:

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8 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

Belichek has a GREAT QB.

 

7 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

Wed have been 4-12 with FranK Reich coaching us last year

 

Belichick went 11-5 with Matt Cassel.

 

I think Reich could do better than 4-12 with Brissett.

 

:dunno:

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Coaching is important in terms of game prep and being able to take advantage of their players strengths.  Also important in the development of younger players.

 

I think the mistake is going after coaches for new and innovative systems.  You occasionally get something new and innovative which everyone immediately copies.  90% of the time you get something that doesn't work or worse get coaches who think their system is more important than talent.  

 

 

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There's the old saying that the mark of a great coach is someone who can take his and beat yours, and then take yours and beat his.

 

I would also say that if you have great players and a mediocre coach, you can win games and go to the playoffs.  And if you have a great coach and mediocre players, you can also win games and go to the playoffs.  But if you marry great players to a great coach, you have something special, and it can take you to a championship.

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With Free Agency right around the corner, and the inevitable firestorm that will happen when Ballard doesn't sign every FA that some people want him to, I thought I'd remind everyone that our coaching staff is more important than a few FAs or draft picks.

 

We saw the Rams make a good case for what FAs can do.  They signed Suh, Talib, and others that helped them get to the SB.  But McVay is probably the main reason the Rams got to the SB, and Belichick is probably the main reason the Pats won another one.

 

We retained Reich, Eberflus, and Sirianni, AND upgraded our OLine coach.  I think this team is going to play even better than we did last year with improvement across the board, regardless of who we add through free agency and the draft.

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On 12/25/2018 at 9:48 AM, throwing BBZ said:

Belichek has a GREAT QB.
And players talk about how well they are prepared each week.

Coach Reich and his staff are doing THAT kind of job it sure looks like.

With the experience gained this season, and yes a few more players, Our Colts ARE TRENDING UP. 
Next to being with Family, my Favorite Christmas gift.   :colts: 

  • no sarcasm

 

I will not deny that Brady is a great QB.  I also won't deny that Belichek had his growing pains before really settling into his role as HC in NE.

 

However, he has gotten a lot out of players at many positions that couldn't produce like that in other systems.  Matt Cassell, who never started a game in college, looked like an all-star QB for NE the year Brady went down.  He got an all-star contract and only had one more pretty good year in the NFL.

 

Personally, I don't think Brady would have become the GOAT (or in the discussion for top 3) in many other systems.  I think Peyton would have won as much or more as Brady had he played in NE his whole career, whereas I think Brady would have had major struggles on many of Peyton's team (mainly due to the fact that we almost never had a top-half defense).  In 2011, we were predicted to win anywhere from 10-14 games with Peyton... he gets hurt and we're the laughing stock of the league going 2-14..... Brady gets hurt week 1 during 2008 and they bring in a guy who was a back-up to Matt Leinart in college and the Pats still go 11-5.

 

There is certainly something to be said about coaching in the NFL. Part of that is getting guys to buy into the system rather than to play for themselves.  I don't ever recall a Belichik team being dysfunctional, no matter how many superstars they had (and in some cases, I don't think he was afraid to let superstars go, knowing he could get the next guy to step up).  It's drastically different than a lot of teams with superstars in the NFL these days (see Pittsburgh as a shining example).

 

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Having your team mentally prepared each week, regardless of your opponent is also the mark of a good coach, as well as the ability to make the right adjustments as the game sometimes dictates you have to do as it progresses     

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All teams have talent. What wins championships more often than not is coaching and a little bit of luck. 

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    As another poster pointed out, it is collective: An Owner that will spend when appropriate but stays “out of the way “, a GM that drafts well and manages his cap, not overpaying for FAs, a coaching staff that knows how to utilize that talent and players that are talented, execute and are good team mates. All are important.

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