Feels Like The Colts Won't Be Indys Team, Indianas Team Ever Again.

[FanFromtheWasteland]

As much as it has hurt to see all these players go I can somewhat see the logic behind it. This was a Peyton team. A Peyton offence and he is no longer here. Just like was done with the Dungy/Polian coaching staff, it is time to clear out the O that can’t be run by the guy that developed it. New scheme new players. Not fun to see but appropriate.

Yes we may have a year or two of mediocrity but stick around to see what happens. Colt’s football is not over it just has a new suit on. it will just take a little bit to get it broken in properly

[subvet]

You don't have to tear down a franchise to rebuild it. I haven't seen the Patriots tear anything down nor have I saw Pittsburg or Green Bay. They simply transition. They don't gut their team and leave their franchise and fans floundering and tell them don't worry...in a couple years we will be good again....that sounds like an EXCUSE. There is an easy way and a hard way. The hard way is to keep your franchise relevent...winning while you reload. The easy way is to just blow it all up and not worry about what your fans and supporters think. Give them some vague promises to hold on hope to. Sounds a lot like some other franchises that I see in the top 10 of the draft year in and year out. Could we have moved Freeney and restructured some people or cut them to free up cap space. Yep. Could we have kept Manning and drafted Luck..yep. Could we have gone another route with a different young qb and traded those picks. Sure. We could have freed up 20 million just by trading Freeney because we already had 6 million. That would have allowed us to sign Saturday, our picks, and either Garcon and Wayne or some other FA. Drafted a replacement for Peyton and d-line or WR. This isn't how it had to happen...but it is how it happened. I will hold the team accountable. Until they field playoff quality teams they have to prove to me they did the right thing because we could have been back with the team we had with some retooling the way the other elite franchises have. All we did was show that our top brass doesn't do things the way that the elite most admired franchises do things. That just tells me of the quality leading the organization. We don't have the skills to do it the hard way...lets take the easy way out. The only one to suffer will be our fans and loyal captains of the team who have led us the last dozen years.

No you don't but if the team you have is choking on it's excesses from earlier years, you cut until it hurts and start anew. Yes many valuable players are now gone but you could call this "pruning" to get new growth.

I'm hopeful this will improve the growth and allow the Colts to remain viable and contenders again.

[dgambill]

Just because people don't like what happened doesn't mean they aren't Colts fans. The Colts did a very unpopular thing. Why can't they be held accountable. I don't give them a free pass to cut one of the greatest qbs of all time...blow up a playoff caliber team and not held accountable for their decisions. I am a fan, a patron, and someone that pays for those salaries and that stadium. If they want my support they will have to earn it. People that speak out are no less supportive or not a fan than those that support blindly. Its like patriotism. The fact people are on a message board taking the time to post shows HOW BIG A FAN all these people are. To tell them to leave because they differ from you to me is really petty. They may not be extremely supportive of the decisions right now...HECK I was probably the least supportive of the team continuing to start Painter but that didn't make me not a Colts fan. We all want the Colts to be good again..but we don't all have to agree what we think would have been best for the organization going forward and voicing that just shows how much we are alike....because we are all here doing it together with the Colts in mind.

[austriancolt]

It was a tough week and I understand the people who are disappointed. BUT this drastic change was only a question of time! Peyton ist 36 years old, several other key players are getting old too. It is now happending just 2-3 years earlier than expected but it was inevitable.

[dgambill]

No you don't but if the team you have is choking on it's excesses from earlier years, you cut until it hurts and start anew. Yes many valuable players are now gone but you could call this "pruning" to get new growth.

I'm hopeful this will improve the growth and allow the Colts to remain viable and contenders again.

I am too. I hope we are contenders soon but every team deals with the cap. Pittsburg is like 47 million over the cap and will have to make some changes but they aren't going to simply gut the team now are they. All these teams shed salary and take on more all the while keeping a few core players. Each year those core players will be different. We could have done this and still moved forward towards a future without PM and others but we didn't. I would have liked to see us make those decisions like some of the most admired and respected owners have as opposed to how we did it. Of course just my opinion. We don't know how all this works out. Either way could have worked or not...I guess I expected us to behave like an elite organization after being at the top for so long...not like those at the bottom.

[braveheartcolt]

You don't have to tear down a franchise to rebuild it. I haven't seen the Patriots tear anything down nor have I saw Pittsburg or Green Bay. They simply transition. They don't gut their team and leave their franchise and fa

ns floundering and tell them don't worry...in a couple years we will be good again....that sounds like an EXCUSE. There is an easy way and a hard way. The hard way is to keep your franchise relevent...winning while you reload. The easy way is to just blow it all up and not worry about what your fans and supporters think. Give them some vague promises to hold on hope to. Sounds a lot like some other franchises that I see in the top 10 of the draft year in and year out. Could we have moved Freeney and restructured some people or cut them to free up cap space. Yep. Could we have kept Manning and drafted Luck..yep. Could we have gone another route with a different young qb and traded those picks. Sure. We could have freed up 20 million just by trading Freeney because we already had 6 million. That would have allowed us to sign Saturday, our picks, and either Garcon and Wayne or some other FA. Drafted a replacement for Peyton and d-line or WR. This isn't how it had to happen...but it is how it happened. I will hold the team accountable. Until they field playoff quality teams they have to prove to me they did the right thing because we could have been back with the team we had with some retooling the way the other elite franchises have. All we did was show that our top brass doesn't do things the way that the elite most admired franchises do things. That just tells me of the quality leading the organization. We don't have the skills to do it the hard way...lets take the easy way out. The only one to suffer will be our fans and loyal captains of the team who have led us the last dozen years.

Did it ever cross your mind that some of these 'great players' who have done very little for this ball club recently might have been the ones to say they didn't want to stay? Maybe they had the easy life, the stars of the locker room, and now when things start to get tough, they cut and run? Ever thought of that? Ever thought that with Peyton going, they all got cold feet without their safety blanket? Considered that the new GM and HC might not be such an easy touch as Polian and Caldwell, and that they ran out on us?

This is a two-way process, not just about Nasty Jim and the Week of the Long Knives.

[GwinnettColt]

Yep and this era will begin in Los Angeles!

Doubtful. Los Angeles Chargers? Yep. Los Angeles Bills? Maybe. Los Angeles Rams? Possibly.

Fans are upset but he was going to retire at some point. As great as he is, he isn't immortal.

[dgambill]

Did it ever cross your mind that some of these 'great players' who have done very little for this ball club recently might have been the ones to say they didn't want to stay? Maybe they had the easy life, the stars of the locker room, and now when things start to get tough, they cut and run? Ever thought of that? Ever thought that with Peyton going, they all got cold feet without their safety blanket? Considered that the new GM and HC might not be such an easy touch as Polian and Caldwell, and that they ran out on us?

This is a two-way process, not just about Nasty Jim and the Week of the Long Knives.

Of course...once we cut Peyton...the rest of this make total sense. I have supported everything basically since that decision...however that decision was the one I don't agree with and has made the future ones necessary. I am totally fine with how we are doing things after that initial decision...I understand that this is a business and those guys perhaps wanted out. That said Irsay knew what was going to happen. Cutting Peyton was the first domino making the rest of this inevitable. I disagree with that decision. It might work out but I also think we had other options...and keeping both Luck and Manning was the best of those.

[smittywerb]

Why is that the fact Manning "refused" to restructure or even agree to sign for less keep getting lost in this equation? Manning could be a Colt "if he wanted to be a Colt" ....... Irsay is not the heavy here, and Luck has absolutely NO pressure on him at all. This team is in total rebuild mode. Peyton wanted NO part of it, and I don't blame him. But to say he was "kicked to the curb" for Luck is totally wrong. Manning's health, contract, and Colt's draft position were all factors in Irsay "reevaluating" Manning's status with the team. Peyton is getting a lot of hugz and kissz here but lets not lose sight of the fact that "HE had/has the option to play wherever he wanted/wants" And Indy was not even a consideration. And for obvious reasons.

THIS! People seem to think we cut a 100% Peyton Manning. People seem to think Irsay did this for some evil plan that will net $3 billion and move the team to LA or something. Please, the NFL is a business and Irsay was not going to let one thing hurt his BUSINESS in the future. Irsay is getting rid of the things that hampered us in the previous regime. Unfortunately, PM neck injury occurred which made him a problem also. I TRULY believe that if PM was healthy, he would be on the team right now about collect a $28 million paycheck.

Yeah, I know. It's pathetic. We will probably go 2-14 next season without all these 'greats'......I'm off to support the Browns......

Hahaha, I see what you did there...

All I know is I'm ready to see some real smash mouth football, we don't have to see a horrible defensive scheme put the colts down 20 points and hope manning can play both defense and offense. Right now the colts have a chance to be one of the very few balanced teams in the NFL if they play their cards right meaning FAs, good early round draft picks and possible trades. Let's just all hope Luck isn't a bust or else I feel very sorry for Jim irsay when it comes to talking to very emotional fans

You're onto something. I think Irsay truly wants to change the team's philosophies and agendas. Look at it this way, we are going from a tampa 4-3 to a hybrid 3-4 and signed someone from the Eagles FO. Look at how the eagles grabbed FA's and players through trades. I think Irsay is willing to be aggressive in acquiring players.

This is the end result to what was a bad situation financially. Polian had paid 1/4 of his players 3/4 of the salary. When the top tier started getting hurt, the weaknesses of the rest of the roster become horribly apparent. With the stars getting injured more, and older to boot, you couldn't keep going like this, especially without Peyton. Once he left, there was no reason to keep the old guard around. Sad day indeed. But for us older fans, if we lived through a 1-15 Jeff George-led season, we can survive this!

TRUTH! No one wants to acknowledge that Polian put us in a tight situation with the bad contracts, bad players, bad drafts, and other moves that hampered us.

[Boiler_Colt]

People do realize that all they guys who were cut on Friday didn't really play at all the past 2 seasons right? People are so willing to dump Gonzo because he is injury prone, well the same can be said for Addai and Clark. Don't get me started on Brackett, people wanted him cut because of the emergence of Angerer and his lofty contract. Now when he gets cut people are up in arms? A bit hypocritical if you ask me.

I have always tried to defend Indy when national media and Bears fans friends called Colts fans bandwagon fans but this last week I can't say that they were wrong.

[Smitto]

THIS! People seem to think we cut a 100% Peyton Manning. People seem to think Irsay did this for some evil plan that will net $3 billion and move the team to LA or something. Please, the NFL is a business and Irsay was not going to let one thing hurt his BUSINESS in the future. Irsay is getting rid of the things that hampered us in the previous regime. Unfortunately, PM neck injury occurred which made him a problem also. I TRULY believe that if PM was healthy, he would be on the team right now about collect a $28 million paycheck.

Hahaha, I see what you did there...

You're onto something. I think Irsay truly wants to change the team's philosophies and agendas. Look at it this way, we are going from a tampa 4-3 to a hybrid 3-4 and signed someone from the Eagles FO. Look at how the eagles grabbed FA's and players through trades. I think Irsay is willing to be aggressive in acquiring players.

TRUTH! No one wants to acknowledge that Polian put us in a tight situation with the bad contracts, bad players, bad drafts, and other moves that hampered us.

That's where I disagree with you Polian put the colts in a great situation, come next season the colts will be one of the most cap spaced friendly teams. They actually planned that, this year is gonna be a hard one but next year its gonna be a really good one cap wise and not just next year either.

[smittywerb]

That's where I disagree with you Polian put the colts in a great situation, come next season the colts will be one of the most cap spaced friendly teams. They actually planned that, this year is gonna be a hard one but next year its gonna be a really good one cap wise and not just next year either.

I can't agree. I disliked his philosophies, how he had his hands in places they shouldn't have been, the overpaying of players who were not as good as their contracts, etc. We are in a great cap situation because we are getting rid of a lot of the weight and players contracts are ending. If we were to resign a lot of the players that are leaving, we would have our hands tied. This year we would have to pay PM, resign Garcon, Reggie, and Saturday, and fill the many holes on our team. We would not be in a good situation.

[Smitto]

I can't agree. I disliked his philosophies, how he had his hands in places they shouldn't have been, the overpaying of players who were not as good as their contracts, etc. We are in a great cap situation because we are getting rid of a lot of the weight and players contracts are ending. If we were to resign a lot of the players that are leaving, we would have our hands tied. This year we would have to pay PM, resign Garcon, Reggie, and Saturday, and fill the many holes on our team. We would not be in a good situation.

They are in that situation because of the way POLIAN constructed their contracts. Those contracts were made that way for situations like this, it was mainly due to Polian.

[oldunclemark]

Teams go through these things all the time. The Pats got rid of Vrabel and Seymour and lost guys like Rodney Harrison and Bruschi as well. It's just a part of the game. The Colts will still be Indy's team, it'll just be with a new cast

I dont know Supe..

In Brackett, Bullit and Manning..did we not cut three team captains

.and our offensive and defensive signal callers?

....It seems like dynamiting the entire neighborhood because you want to want to remodel your house..

[Portage Coltfans]

Teams go through these things all the time. The Pats got rid of Vrabel and Seymour and lost guys like Rodney Harrison and Bruschi as well. It's just a part of the game. The Colts will still be Indy's team, it'll just be with a new cast

, you forgot how they kept brady through all that: and bill

[atapcl]

You don't have to tear down a franchise to rebuild it. I haven't seen the Patriots tear anything down nor have I saw Pittsburg or Green Bay. They simply transition. They don't gut their team and leave their franchise and fans floundering and tell them don't worry...in a couple years we will be good again....that sounds like an EXCUSE. There is an easy way and a hard way. The hard way is to keep your franchise relevent...winning while you reload. The easy way is to just blow it all up and not worry about what your fans and supporters think. Give them some vague promises to hold on hope to. Sounds a lot like some other franchises that I see in the top 10 of the draft year in and year out. Could we have moved Freeney and restructured some people or cut them to free up cap space. Yep. Could we have kept Manning and drafted Luck..yep. Could we have gone another route with a different young qb and traded those picks. Sure. We could have freed up 20 million just by trading Freeney because we already had 6 million. That would have allowed us to sign Saturday, our picks, and either Garcon and Wayne or some other FA. Drafted a replacement for Peyton and d-line or WR. This isn't how it had to happen...but it is how it happened. I will hold the team accountable. Until they field playoff quality teams they have to prove to me they did the right thing because we could have been back with the team we had with some retooling the way the other elite franchises have. All we did was show that our top brass doesn't do things the way that the elite most admired franchises do things. That just tells me of the quality leading the organization. We don't have the skills to do it the hard way...lets take the easy way out. The only one to suffer will be our fans and loyal captains of the team who have led us the last dozen years.

The Patriots pretty much gutted their defense while they retooled their offense. Thats why they have lost the last 2 SBs they played (Bad defense).

[21isSuperman]

I dont know Supe..

In Brackett, Bullit and Manning..did we not cut three team captains

.and our offensive and defensive signal callers?

....It seems like dynamiting the entire neighborhood because you want to want to remodel your house..

Bullitt was injury prone, and so was Brackett. All of those guys we cut were fairly injury prone, had high salaries, and were aging.

[21isSuperman]

, you forgot how they kept brady through all that: and bill

Yeah, but it's still their team. It's still New England's team...and you should have seen how many Pats fans wanted to get rid of Brady and Bill after they lost the Super Bowl.

[Portage Coltfans]

Yeah, but it's still their team. It's still New England's team...and you should have seen how many Pats fans wanted to get rid of Brady and Bill after they lost the Super Bowl.

I don't remember people going after Peyton after our SB loss, I can't believe they were rough on bill/brady

[21isSuperman]

I don't remember people going after Peyton after our SB loss, I can't believe they were rough on bill/brady

I couldn't believe it. A few years ago, people would have thrown themselves in front of Brady and Belichick so they don't want on water. After the Super Bowl, it was like they all wanted to push them into the water. Let's not forget that Brady is the same guy who only threw 4 INTs in an entire season a few years ago

[dgambill]

The Patriots pretty much gutted their defense while they retooled their offense. Thats why they have lost the last 2 SBs they played (Bad defense).

They held NY to how many points in each of those two Super Bowls? Hmm. They may not be the steel curtain but they certainly played well enough for them to win. Seems to me two of the greatest offenses ever to be assembled failed NE not their defenses. I will tell you this...that defense will be much better this year and really really improved at the end of the season.

Yeah, but it's still their team. It's still New England's team...and you should have seen how many Pats fans wanted to get rid of Brady and Bill after they lost the Super Bowl.

I haven't seen any of that. What alternate universe are you living in. I seem to remember everyone in Boston blaming Welker for that loss....even dumping thousands of Butterfingers on his door step. Sorry....not buying that one.

Point is NE, GB, PITT and the elite teams do cut popular aging players and retool through the draft..but always retained the face of the franchise and built around them and their strengths. I think we could have done that and been playoff competitive and still drafted Luck and the team enjoyed success now and into the future...sadly as a fan I won't get to watch that.

[21isSuperman]

I haven't seen any of that. What alternate universe are you living in. I seem to remember everyone in Boston blaming Welker for that loss....even dumping thousands of Butterfingers on his door step. Sorry....not buying that one

You should have seen their fan forum right after the loss. I went there, curious as to what they would say. Many of the posts I read were people saying they need to get rid of Belichick and that Brady has lost the fire and doesn't care anymore and that ever since they got caught with Spygate, Brady hasn't looked as confident (their words, not mine). Heck, some were even calling for Mallett to be the QB next season. If you go over there, some of the posts might still be up and you can see for yourself what they had to say.

[dgambill]

You should have seen their fan forum right after the loss. I went there, curious as to what they would say. Many of the posts I read were people saying they need to get rid of Belichick and that Brady has lost the fire and doesn't care anymore and that ever since they got caught with Spygate, Brady hasn't looked as confident (their words, not mine). Heck, some were even calling for Mallett to be the QB next season. If you go over there, some of the posts might still be up and you can see for yourself what they had to say.

I don't frequent their boards but if that is the case they are even more stupid than Irsay. Brady has as much fire as anyone in the league and Belichek pulled what Dungy did in 2006. He had that defense believing in themselves when they were severely handicapped. I will take your word that was what was going on but every expert on tv and all the fans on tv I saw where murdering Welker. Take Brady off that team and they are perhaps drafting Luck.

[21isSuperman]

I don't frequent their boards but if that is the case they are even more stupid than Irsay. Brady has as much fire as anyone in the league and Belichek pulled what Dungy did in 2006. He had that defense believing in themselves when they were severely handicapped. I will take your word that was what was going on but every expert on tv and all the fans on tv I saw where murdering Welker. Take Brady off that team and they are perhaps drafting Luck.

The point is us fans don't know as much about it as Irsay and the management. First off, it doesn't give a good impression when you call Irsay stupid for no reason. He did what he had to do; it wasn't easy for him, but it was the correct business decision. The Pats are in a very different situation than we are. Take Brady off that team and they've shown they can still almost make the playoffs. Take Peyton off our team and we become the worst team in the league. There is something very wrong when your entire team's success depends on one player. The Pats have a better O-line than we do and much better coaching. The players that were released were all aging, injury prone, and had high cap hits. The best thing for the team was to let them go and prepare for the future. Keeping those guys on the team would have helped in the short term, but would have hurt in the long term

[oldunclemark]

Bullitt was injury prone, and so was Brackett. All of those guys we cut were fairly injury prone, had high salaries, and were aging.

I know...but we gave ashcanned them and got nothing in return...

..I know you gotta have faith but you cant play 'faith' at wide receiver or safety..

I sure hope we really do have a plan..

[Fireman818]

All these loyal Fans who keep telling all the other Colts fans to just go because you weren't true fans away way, hit me up because if your so die hard and such better loyal fans then someone else I have $1394 reason's why you can prove your better than me and I can leave.

[Colts5150]

Some of you so called colts fans need to learn how to be a little more true to your team... Its a rebuilding season, we cant have the same team for a decade and half thats more than a lot of teams get. I feel like we as a fan base have not appreciated what we have had. Teams like Seattle and Oakland have diehard fans with only an average team. If we cant stay die hard throughout how ever long it takes to rebuild then maybe we all werent really fans of the colts we were just fans of being on the winners side......

Yall need to stay TRUE BLUE! GO COLTS

[UndecidedFrog]

I know...but we gave ashcanned them and got nothing in return...

..I know you gotta have faith but you cant play 'faith' at wide receiver or safety..

I sure hope we really do have a plan..

So you think another team would pay you something of value for injury-proned, high-salaried players who are aging and less productive on the field?

[WeSpy]

So you think another team would pay you something of value for injury-proned, high-salaried players who are aging and less productive on the field?

If Grigson and Co. tested the market for their value before releasing them then I am fine with the release. If they just let them go without even seeing what teams were willing to give them---that's a different story.

[UndecidedFrog]

If Grigson and Co. tested the market for their value before releasing them then I am fine with the release. If they just let them go without even seeing what teams were willing to give them---that's a different story.

Even a rookie GM knows what to do in cases like this.

I trust our FO to know what is the right thing to do and do it.

From all the roster moves they have made so far, it demonstrates to me that they are operating at a high level.

[21isSuperman]

I know...but we gave ashcanned them and got nothing in return...

..I know you gotta have faith but you cant play 'faith' at wide receiver or safety..

I sure hope we really do have a plan..

The draft and free agency is coming up. Give Grigs and chance and let's see what he can do

[Fireman818]

Some of you so called colts fans need to learn how to be a little more true to your team... Its a rebuilding season, we cant have the same team for a decade and half thats more than a lot of teams get. I feel like we as a fan base have not appreciated what we have had. Teams like Seattle and Oakland have diehard fans with only an average team. If we cant stay die hard throughout how ever long it takes to rebuild then maybe we all werent really fans of the colts we were just fans of being on the winners side......

Yall need to stay TRUE BLUE! GO COLTS

I did in the 80's and most of the 90's and then the 2000's came along and we had a great run. Now it's the 2010's and were heading back to the 80's. I'll be a fan from my couch watching the blackout years on the NFL Ticket. My financial support years have come to an end but hey, at least I don't have to go to the local bar and pay $25 to watch the Colts on pirated satelite anymore. Gosh we've come a long way. Man I hope Luck isn't another Jeff George.

[Malakai432]

Well, look on the brightside, the Pacers are relevant once again. Can't have it all.

Indiana basketball is relevant again in general. Heck IU, Purdue and Notre Dame all made the NCAA tournament. Pacers will make the playoffs ect. Pacers still have alot of work to do though, they are struggling to even beat teams like Atlanta, Orlando, and Philly let alone the Heat and Bulls (even though they got a great win in Chicago earlier). They still need to get much better.

[subvet]

If Grigson and Co. tested the market for their value before releasing them then I am fine with the release. If they just let them go without even seeing what teams were willing to give them---that's a different story.

Freeney wasn't injury prone and didn't generate much interest so how well do you think the rest would do?

I'm all for getting value for worth but they made the right move and just cut their losses and gave the players an opportunity to find another team with no strings.

[UndecidedFrog]

Freeney wasn't injury prone and didn't generate much interest so how well do you think the rest would do?

I doubt you will find a team willing to give you much for the right to pay $14MM to Freeney to play for them one year.

Of course they will give you more if you can provide them with a Freeney willing to extend that one year to something more under reasonable terms. But you would need to convince Freeney to agree to that.

Why would Freeney agree to that? Especially if whatever he agrees to will make his future team give the Colts more?

[subvet]

I doubt you will find a team willing to give you much for the right to pay $14MM to Freeney to play for them one year. Sorr

Of course they will give you more if you can provide them with a Freeney willing to extend that one year to something more under reasonable terms. But you would need to convince Freeney to agree to that.

Why would Freeney agree to that? Especially if whatever he agrees to will make his future team give the Colts more?

Sorry Frog, no offense intended but did you read the question I was responding to? They "tested the water" with Freeney but until today, no one wanted him or his contract so I thought that releasing the other players was the right thing to do.

[HOFClipboardHolder]

Indiana basketball is relevant again in general. Heck IU, Purdue and Notre Dame all made the NCAA tournament. Pacers will make the playoffs ect. Pacers still have alot of work to do though, they are struggling to even beat teams like Atlanta, Orlando, and Philly let alone the Heat and Bulls (even though they got a great win in Chicago earlier). They still need to get much better.

Chicago is not on the same level as the Heat. They have an inflated winning percentage due to their easy schedule. Only the Knicks had an easier schedule thus far(which tells me all I need to know about linsanity)

I hate the Heat, but they are on a whole other level compared to the rest of the NBA and this is their championship to lose

[UndecidedFrog]

Sorry Frog, no offense intended but did you read the question I was responding to? They "tested the water" with Freeney but until today, no one wanted him or his contract so I thought that releasing the other players was the right thing to do.

Sorry subvet, yes, I was agreeing with you.

[Warhorse]

I know...but we gave ashcanned them and got nothing in return...

..I know you gotta have faith but you cant play 'faith' at wide receiver or safety..

I sure hope we really do have a plan..

Well, as soon as they sign contracts with another team, we can compare their new salaries to their old ones. I'll be happy to acknowledge your wisdom of the situation when we see those numbers and it is shown that we gave up something rather than cut loose of something.

[subvet]

Sorry subvet, yes, I was agreeing with you.

It's been a long day when I can't read whats in front of me, better shut down before I make more mistakes......