Starting to Look like the Colts will be robbed of NFL Awards

[lollygagger8]

14 hours ago, MacDee1975 said:

 

Tell Darius Leonard that him not being picked for the Pro Bowl does not matter.  I'd love to see his reaction.

[DougDew]

14 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

This is a very jaded, but complete accurate explanation.

 

I don't know if you're old enough but remember the good old days when the media reported the news rather than trying to be the news?

I didn't mean it that way, necessarily, although I think some of what you say is probably true.

 

I think media companies are huge bureaucratic organizations (just like everything else in the world it seems) and it takes a lot of work and people to put stories and programs together.  Because of this, there is a certain amount of inertia and momentum that is difficult to change in a short time.  So if the media took the narrative early in the season that the Colts are rebuilding this year, they probably are still going with that mentality as a corporate opinion until the Colts actually do something meaningful to change it, like make the playoffs.

 

Come playoff time, or the end of season analysis, they'll have the opportunity to see what Leonard has been doing and give him props.  But it'll be too late in the year for him to get any awards, IMO.  Maybe I'll be wrong and they'll wake up, but corralling 20 people on show production to change the momentum of a narrative is probably not that easy.

 

[Superman]

12 hours ago, Smoke317 said:

Not birthright. He’s earned it.  They all have had good seasons but Leonard’s season has been better.  If all the awards are gonna be based on market size or prime time games over merit then the whole thing is a joke.  Now they all merit consideration but Leonard deserves the win because of his play on the field.  

 

The bolded is subjective. You're stating it as if it's an unassailable fact, and it's not. A legitimate case can be made for all four players.

 

And I never said the awards are based on market size or prime time games. 

[jskinnz]

6 hours ago, braveheartcolt said:

Chris Wessling did his top 10 DPOY contenders. He has Keuchly at 4, and Leonard at 10. DL has 22 more tackles, 5 more sacks, 1 more pass defended, 2 more FF's and 1 more fumble recovery than Luke. They both have 1 interception. So DL wins unanimously on points! I know it is more than just stats, but the eye test also passes muster. Vet reputation must also swing a lot of the rankings, even although these mildly interesting awards are supposed to be about the current season only. That said, for DL to be named in that 'company' in his rookie year is jolly nice.......

 

I think past reputation and the fact the rookies have their own award to win influences that ranking.  

 

I think you are spot on - the more important factor is that Colts have players and coaches who are even in these conversations.  It bodes well for the future of the franchise.

[Superman]

10 hours ago, Jdubu said:

 Not sure why you quoted me here as I kind of mirrored this. I don’t think Reich wins, I think the others are in the conversation. I think Luck however is a lock to win the CPOY award based off of his circumstances and injury. His time away was longer. His injury was much bigger in terms of return and he is the main focus of a team. Luck has returned in a huge way and at a very high level. Watts wasn’t nearly as dramatic or as long and he is a piece on a system of defense as opposed to the main piece. If Watts wins though, it won’t change anything nor will it change a thing if Luck wins. It’s an award of you were jacked up last year and came back pretty good but did it win a super bowl? That’s the main thing I personally care about. I’ll not lose 1 hours sleep if we don’t get any attention for post season accolades. 

 

Just discussing. I agree that Luck should win over Watt.

[The Fish]

There's not 5 players in the NFL the media likes more than JJ. I kind of think if Luck doesn't throw 4 or 5 TD's in the next two games, the media will find a way to give it to JJ, because he flips tires and stuff. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Luck should win Comeback Player of the Year pretty easily. Alot of people had him wrote off as damaged goods and he has 34 TD's and his team is 8-6. I do not see why he wouldn't.

 

-Leonard should win DROY as well. Chubb has had a Good season with 12 Sacks but Denver is 6-8 and isn't even in the Playoff hunt. Leonard leads the league in tackles on a team that will probably will make the Playoffs.

[Superman]

8 hours ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

It's not that it's his birth right it's just hard to not be upset when a player clearly has better stats and is clearly more deserving. I agree the others are good but as another poster said Leonard is playing better than everyone at his position rookie and vetran. so how in the world can someone justify giving it to someone else when a rookie is out playing seasoned vets? Just doesn't make much logical sense to me 

 

Derwin James is one of the best safeties in the league, he's outplaying everyone but Eddie Jackson, to be honest. He lines up all over the field, basically playing four positions, and he's probably their defensive MVP. Bradley Chubb is top ten in sacks, and on his way to setting the rookie record. LVE hasn't been quite as productive as Leonard, but I could argue he's better in coverage and diagnoses better in the run game.

 

You guys have shut your minds off to the possibility that anyone else could be deserving of this award, and that's nonsense. Either you're not watching those other players, or you're being homers. 

 

My vote definitely goes to Leonard, but I think James is only a hair behind him; it won't be a sham if any of these four guys wins.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Derwin James is one of the best safeties in the league, he's outplaying everyone but Eddie Jackson, to be honest. He lines up all over the field, basically playing four positions, and he's probably their defensive MVP. Bradley Chubb is top ten in sacks, and on his way to setting the rookie record. LVE hasn't been quite as productive as Leonard, but I could argue he's better in coverage and diagnoses better in the run game.

 

You guys have shut your minds off to the possibility that anyone else could be deserving of this award, and that's nonsense. Either you're not watching those other players, or you're being homers. 

 

My vote definitely goes to Leonard, but I think James is only a hair behind him; it won't be a sham if any of these four guys wins.

I will agree, it won't be a "sham" if Leonard doesn't win but Leonard deserves it. I would even say that if I wasn't a Colts fan. Our Defense was awful last season and he is the main reason why it's decent + he leads the league in Tackles so Stats even back up his argument. Now if Luck doesn't win CPOY that is a sham. JJ Watt is a swell/great dude and having a solid year but Luck should win that with out debate.

[Coffeedrinker]

18 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I will agree, it won't be a "sham" if Leonard doesn't win but Leonard deserves it. I would even say that if I wasn't a Colts fan. Our Defense was awful last season and he is the main reason why it's decent + he leads the league in Tackles so Stats even back up his argument. Now if Luck doesn't win CPOY that is a sham. JJ Watt is a swell/great dude and having a solid year but Luck should win that with out debate.

Nothing can be sliced so thin that there is only one side.

[aaron11]

leonard needs one more sack to tie the record by any off the ball line backer in the last 20 years.  he also has a bunch of tackles for loss to go with all of his other stats.  Chubb hasnt done enough to be in the roty conversation 

[Superman]

1 minute ago, aaron11 said:

Chubb hasnt done enough to be in the roty conversation 

 

Good heavens...

[aaron11]

3 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Good heavens...

hes doenst belong when leonard also has a bunch of sacks and tfl himself, along with everything else hes done 

 

no off the ball LB has had more than 8 sacks since the 90s.  

[Superman]

1 minute ago, aaron11 said:

hes doenst belong when leonard also has a bunch of sacks and tfl himself, along with everything else hes done 

 

no off the ball LB has more than 8 sacks since the 90s.  

 

Recognizing Leonard doesn't require diminishing Chubb (or anyone else). Chubb is close to breaking the rookie sack record, and you're saying he doesn't even belong in the conversation? 

 

Come on.

[aaron11]

3 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Recognizing Leonard doesn't require diminishing Chubb (or anyone else). Chubb is close to breaking the rookie sack record, and you're saying he doesn't even belong in the conversation? 

 

Come on.

he only has one more tfl than DL and hasnt done nearly as much overall for his team.

 

it doesnt get much attention but only one off the ball line backer has 8 sacks in the last 20+ years.  leonard could match or exceed that himself.  

[braveheartcolt]

1 minute ago, aaron11 said:

he only has one more tfl than DL and hasnt done nearly as much overall for his team.

 

it doesnt get much attention but only one off the ball line backer has 8 sacks in the last 20+ years.  leonard could match or exceed that himself.  

Keep saying the same thing over and over again. It has certainly won me over......

[aaron11]

1 minute ago, braveheartcolt said:

Keep saying the same thing over and over again. It has certainly won me over......

people keep bringing up the rookie sack record but no one is talking about the linebacker sack record

 

im just glad i can be the one to let you all know

[Colts_Fan12]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

Derwin James is one of the best safeties in the league, he's outplaying everyone but Eddie Jackson, to be honest. He lines up all over the field, basically playing four positions, and he's probably their defensive MVP. Bradley Chubb is top ten in sacks, and on his way to setting the rookie record. LVE hasn't been quite as productive as Leonard, but I could argue he's better in coverage and diagnoses better in the run game.

 

You guys have shut your minds off to the possibility that anyone else could be deserving of this award, and that's nonsense. Either you're not watching those other players, or you're being homers. 

 

My vote definitely goes to Leonard, but I think James is only a hair behind him; it won't be a sham if any of these four guys wins.

I just look at the teams they all play on and it's Leonard who has the worst supporting cast the others all have some other great players to help them on D.  James has Melvin Ingram Chubb has Von Miller on his opposite side and LVE has DeMarcus Lawrence and Jaylon Smith that is a big factor to me. if Leonard don't win it wont be the end of the world but I'll be pretty annoyed honestly.

[jskinnz]

41 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

people keep bringing up the rookie sack record but no one is talking about the linebacker sack record

 

im just glad i can be the one to let you all know

 

Do you have stats on the rookie record for sacks by the strong side DE in 3-4 scheme?

 

 

[aaron11]

7 minutes ago, jskinnz said:

 

Do you have stats on the rookie record for sacks by the strong side DE in 3-4 scheme?

 

 

not off the top of my head.  the rookie sack record would be impressive, but so is getting the most from any off the ball line backer ever.  leonard could legitimately reach that too, while having 100 more tackles than chubb

[2006Coltsbestever]

Chubb is having a Very Good Rookie season if not Great. I said before the season he would have 10 Sacks and he actually has 12. I said that though because he is playing along side Von Miller, takes the focal point off of him. Imagine if Leonard had Von Miller as a teammate, Leonard would probably look Ray Lewis. Leonard is our best Defensive player period, Chubb is not in Denver, that would be Mr Miller. 

[Colts_Fan12]

9 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Chubb is having a Very Good Rookie season if not Great. I said before the season he would have 10 Sacks and he actually has 12. I said that though because he is playing along side Von Miller, takes the focal point off of him. Imagine if Leonard had Von Miller as a teammate, Leonard would probably look Ray Lewis. Leonard is our best Defensive player period, Chubb is not in Denver, that would be Mr Miller. 

None of the rookies are the best defender on their team except Leonard honestly 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

None of the rookies are the best defender on their team except Leonard honestly 

I agree, James isn't either, Bosa is in reality. Bosa has been injured but is back now and playing well over the last 5 games. Leonard is our best player by a mile on Defense. 

[Superman]

28 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Leonard is our best Defensive player period, Chubb is not in Denver, that would be Mr Miller. 

 

17 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

None of the rookies are the best defender on their team except Leonard honestly 

 

14 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I agree, James isn't either, Bosa is in reality. Bosa has been injured but is back now and playing well over the last 5 games. Leonard is our best player by a mile on Defense. 

 

Goodness.

 

Not relevant, but Bosa has only played five games this year. This year, James is the best player on the Chargers' defense, and it's not even close. Realistically, even when (if?) Bosa is back 100%, there might still be an argument for James being their best player.

 

And again, it's not relevant. We're not talking about Defensive MVP. We're talking about DROY. There's no criteria that says the player has to be the best player on his defense. The only reason Chubb isn't the best defensive player on his team is because he's teammates with a top ten defensive player. If Miller were a Colt, Leonard wouldn't be our best defensive player; that wouldn't make him less deserving of DROY.

[2006Coltsbestever]

18 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

 

 

Goodness.

 

Not relevant, but Bosa has only played five games this year. This year, James is the best player on the Chargers' defense, and it's not even close. Realistically, even when (if?) Bosa is back 100%, there might still be an argument for James being their best player.

 

And again, it's not relevant. We're not talking about Defensive MVP. We're talking about DROY. There's no criteria that says the player has to be the best player on his defense. The only reason Chubb isn't the best defensive player on his team is because he's teammates with a top ten defensive player. If Miller were a Colt, Leonard wouldn't be our best defensive player; that wouldn't make him less deserving of DROY.

I am not trying to diminish what Chubb or James are doing (so you are missing my point). It was just a point I brought up regarding who is and who isn't the best defensive players on their teams. It does make a difference on how well another player plays when you play along side another Great player. You surely have to see that? I already Posted above Chubb was having a Very Good if not Great rookie season so I am not dissing anyone. Just because I think Leonard deserves DROY doesn't mean I think the other guys aren't deserving. By the way Von Miller has 14.5 Sacks and is flying around eveywhere and Bosa has 4 Sacks in his 5 games back. 

[Superman]

7 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I am not trying to diminish what Chubb or James are doing (so you are missing my point). It was just a point I brought up regarding who is and who isn't the best defensive players on their teams. It does make a difference on how well another player plays when you play along side another Great player. You surely have to see that? I already Posted above Chubb was having a Very Good if not Great rookie season so I am not dissing anyone. Just because I think Leonard deserves DROY doesn't mean I think the other guys aren't deserving. By the way Von Miller has 14.5 Sacks and is flying around eveywhere and Bosa has 4 Sacks in his 5 games back. If Von Miller was on our team, he would be our best Defensive player actually so I disagree with you on that.

 

It's not relevant when it comes to DROY.

 

To the bolded, that's what my point is. Put Miller on the Colts and he's our best player, but that wouldn't make Leonard any less deserving of DROY.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, Superman said:

 

It's not relevant when it comes to DROY.

 

To the bolded, that's what my point is. Put Miller on the Colts and he's our best player, but that wouldn't make Leonard any less deserving of DROY.

I edited my Post because I mis-read what you said, please see above. I agree with you, Miller would be our best player but do you think Chubb would have 12 Sacks if he wasn't playing with Miller? Only reason why Chubb is mentioned in this convo is because he has 12 Sacks and to me alot of that has to do with playing with Miller. I just do not believe he would have that many without Miller as a teammate to take the pressure off of him. I think that is a very valid point. Leonard has to do alot by himself with guys keying on him. 

 

-One way or the other it won't bother me either way who wins that award. I just want to make the Playoffs. I do think Leonard deserves it though.

[aaron11]

i think that is relevant ^.  DL has done a lot more than chubb by being our best player.  chubb has one more tackle for a loss, but leonard has been all over the field and is near a sack milestone himself 

 

 

[dw49]

4 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

It's not relevant when it comes to DROY.

 

To the bolded, that's what my point is. Put Miller on the Colts and he's our best player, but that wouldn't make Leonard any less deserving of DROY.

 

Im thinking that this Pro Bowl snub is going to help Leonard in the DROY award and even in the All Pro voting. There are numerous articles on the internet and twitter went crazy on this omission. It will bring much attention to Leonard . Here's an article I just read a while ago on the Pro Bowl snub.

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/12/19/nfl-pro-bowl-vote-roster-snubs-darius-leonard-colts?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=social-share-article&utm_content=20181219

[funktacious2]

Most Likely

DROTY- Darrius Leonard

CPOTY-  Andrew Luck

 

Less Than 30 Percent Chance

COTY- Frank Reich

EOTY- Chris Ballard

 

Longshots

OROTY- Quentin Nelson

 

 

Congrats to our team for all the considerations we are receiving, but nothing is a shoe in.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, funktacious2 said:

Most Likely

DROTY- Darrius Leonard

CPOTY-  Andrew Luck

 

Less Than 30 Percent Chance

COTY- Frank Reich

EOTY- Chris Ballard

 

Longshots

OROTY- Quentin Nelson

 

 

Congrats to our team for all the considerations we are receiving, but nothing is a shoe in.

Barkley will win OROTY IMO. 

[Superman]

8 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

do you think Chubb would have 12 Sacks if he wasn't playing with Miller? Only reason why Chubb is mentioned in this convo is because he has 12 Sacks and to me alot of that has to do with playing with Miller. I just do not believe he would have that many without Miller as a teammate to take the pressure off of him. I think that is a very valid point. Leonard has to do alot by himself with guys keying on him. 

 

Ifs and buts, candy and nuts...

 

There's no way to say whether Chubb would have the same amount of sacks without Miller. I could argue he'd have more, as he's been beat to the QB by a split second by Miller on a handful of occasions. Chubb is a good pass rusher, let's not take credit away from him for his success this season.

 

We're also starting to overstate how much offenses are keying on Leonard. He plays behind the three tech 75% of the time, leaving him unblocked, which is a big part of the reason he gets so many tackles. When the Cowboys did key on him last week, he was somewhat neutralized.

 

I'm just saying, there's a lot of hyperbole right now. I'm all about Leonard, I'd vote for him, but we're doing a lot of undermining of other players and pumping Leonard up too much, to support his candidacy for DROY. 

[Superman]

33 minutes ago, dw49 said:

 

Im thinking that this Pro Bowl snub is going to help Leonard in the DROY award and even in the All Pro voting. There are numerous articles on the internet and twitter went crazy on this omission. It will bring much attention to Leonard . Here's an article I just read a while ago on the Pro Bowl snub.

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/12/19/nfl-pro-bowl-vote-roster-snubs-darius-leonard-colts?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=social-share-article&utm_content=20181219

 

Yeah, anyone with a vote who was sleeping on him should be fully aware of how great of a season he's having at this point. And if he just keeps up what he's been doing all season for the next two weeks, he should bring it home.

[2006Coltsbestever]

14 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Ifs and buts, candy and nuts...

 

There's no way to say whether Chubb would have the same amount of sacks without Miller. I could argue he'd have more, as he's been beat to the QB by a split second by Miller on a handful of occasions. Chubb is a good pass rusher, let's not take credit away from him for his success this season.

 

We're also starting to overstate how much offenses are keying on Leonard. He plays behind the three tech 75% of the time, leaving him unblocked, which is a big part of the reason he gets so many tackles. When the Cowboys did key on him last week, he was somewhat neutralized.

 

I'm just saying, there's a lot of hyperbole right now. I'm all about Leonard, I'd vote for him, but we're doing a lot of undermining of other players and pumping Leonard up too much, to support his candidacy for DROY. 

That's fair enough, now and then I like to question your reasoning on things because I respect your opinions . We at least both agree that Leonard deserves the award but agree if he doesn't get it, it's not a sham or anything to cry about.

[Four2itus]

2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Chubb is having a Very Good Rookie season if not Great. I said before the season he would have 10 Sacks and he actually has 12. I said that though because he is playing along side Von Miller, takes the focal point off of him. Imagine if Leonard had Von Miller as a teammate, Leonard would probably look Ray Lewis. Leonard is our best Defensive player period, Chubb is not in Denver, that would be Mr Miller. 

Not to play devils advocate, but when Freeney was with the team, many said Mathis's numbers were inflated by Dwight. They weren't.

[2006Coltsbestever]

6 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

Not to play devils advocate, but when Freeney was with the team, many said Mathis's numbers were inflated by Dwight. They weren't.

That's a great point but we aren't sure of that about Chubb yet? I guess until Chubb pulls a Mathis without Miller we won't know. 

[jskinnz]

5 hours ago, aaron11 said:

not off the top of my head.  the rookie sack record would be impressive, but so is getting the most from any off the ball line backer ever.  leonard could legitimately reach that too, while having 100 more tackles than chubb

 

Dear God...

[The Fish]

I was patiently waiting for that.

[braveheartcolt]

Most of us think Darius should win DROY, but we really are calling this blind, with a large chunk of homerism. I have seen nothing but tiny glimpses of the other contenders, so how can I really beep my horn so loudly for one player when I don't have all the evidence to consider? And I certainly do not have the analysis skills to compare great safety play with great linebacker play. Just what is more valuable? What wins more games? Who really cares?

 

I'm just very pleased we have such a great emerging talent, awards or not. And if any of you are feeling insecure about him not being singularly exalted, watch GMFB, who rave consistenly about him.

[NFLfan]

On 12/20/2018 at 12:46 PM, Defjamz26 said:

Leonard should easily get DROY. 

 

Hopefully folks are listening to former NFL player Chris Canty who has a sports radio show in ths NY/NJ/CT area. He said Leonard should win DROY. I agree.