Did Leonard lock up the Defensive Rookie of the Year

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[WarGhost21]

6 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

I see this thread is about halfway through on its descent into madness.

Aren’t they all though

[runthepost]

56 minutes ago, jskinnz said:

 

Fantastic.

 

Tell me how that impacts the stats he put his rookie season?

I was talking about after his injury in the playoffs that’s what lead to his downfall. His rookie season was great tho.

[Myles]

28 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

how is that?  luck had more yards and tds even factoring in rushing yards

 

griffin had a better completion %, but he didn attempt many tough passes either 

RG# had less INT's , more rushing yards and was the overall much more exciting player.  He deserved to win it.  It wasn't a screw up by giving it to him. 

[runthepost]

4 minutes ago, Myles said:

RG# had less INT's , more rushing yards and was the overall much more exciting player.  He deserved to win it.  It wasn't a screw up by giving it to him. 

He probably thinks Nelson should win OROTY over Barkley too 

[aaron11]

27 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

I see this thread is about halfway through on its descent into madness.

its not madness to say luck should have won. griffins completion % came from throwing a bunch of easy passes

[aaron11]

8 minutes ago, Myles said:

RG# had less INT's , more rushing yards and was the overall much more exciting player.  He deserved to win it.  It wasn't a screw up by giving it to him. 

rushing yards dont matter, luck had 1000 more passing yards and like 500 total yards.  ints are not created equally either, some came in garbage time

3 minutes ago, runthepost said:

He probably thinks Nelson should win OROTY over Barkley too 

no barkley deserves it

[tweezy32]

5 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

rushing yards dont matter, luck had 1000 more passing yards and like 500 total yards.  ints are not created equally either, some came in garbage time

no barkley deserves it

Didn't Kelly give up like 0 sacks his rookie season or something small? I thought he should have got in.  And luck was definitely better then rg3 lmao..  Rg3 had a run game and a good defense. Luck had nothing, and still was asked to do more and did more with a worse team than rg3. Luck was better that year, rg3 had more rushing yards..  Who cares?  He's a qb not really suppose to run he's suppose to pass so doesn't matter if he had more rushing yards than luck,  luck had more passing yards than rg3! You are right in this debate! 

[OffensivelyPC]

14 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

its not madness to say luck should have won. griffins completion % came from throwing a bunch of easy passes

OP - did Leonard lock up the 2018 DROTY award?

 

You - Luck should have won in 2012 but RGIII did because of big markets n' stuff.

 

Completely unrelated.

[aaron11]

8 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

OP - did Leonard lock up the 2018 DROTY award?

 

You - Luck should have won in 2012 but RGIII did because of big markets n' stuff.

 

Completely unrelated.

its related.  leonards biggest competition plays in los angeles.  roty isnt a fan vote, but it is a media vote.  the media pays little attention to the colts and pacers

[Pacergeek]

Luck losing ROY to RG3 was a disgrace. Whomever voted for RG3 obviously didn't watch Luck play. Small market bias. Luck taking that roster to the playoffs was outstanding, and we may never see this turnaround ever again. Luck should have easily won the MVP as Rookie. 

[Myles]

18 minutes ago, Pacergeek said:

Luck losing ROY to RG3 was a disgrace. Whomever voted for RG3 obviously didn't watch Luck play. Small market bias. Luck taking that roster to the playoffs was outstanding, and we may never see this turnaround ever again. Luck should have easily won the MVP as Rookie. 

That was a typo, right?   You really don't think he should have won MVP in 2012 do you?  

[aaron11]

10 minutes ago, Myles said:

That was a typo, right?   You really don't think he should have won MVP in 2012 do you?  

to be fair luck was really valuable that year, what would we have been without him?

 

mvp voters dont usually go for a Qb that carried a terrible to to the playoffs though, they vote for who was most dominant and not necessarily most valuable 

[Myles]

3 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

to be fair luck was really valuable that year, what would we have been without him?

 

mvp voters dont usually go for a Qb that carried a terrible to to the playoffs though, they vote for who was most dominant and not necessarily most valuable 

It is usually a stat contest for players on playoff teams.  Value has very little to do with it except to get them in the conversation to start with.   Manning had a much better season than Luck.  So did Brady.   Peterson, who won it, ran for over 2000 yards at 6 YPC.   He was deserving. 

[aaron11]

10 minutes ago, Myles said:

It is usually a stat contest for players on playoff teams.  Value has very little to do with it except to get them in the conversation to start with.   Manning had a much better season than Luck.  So did Brady.   Peterson, who won it, ran for over 2000 yards at 6 YPC.   He was deserving. 

they should  rename the award, its hard to be more valuable than a  good qb on an otherwise bad team. denver and NE would have been ok with an average qb, while the colts would have been terrible.  peterson was great, im not mad he got that

 

luck had to actually run an nfl offense though, rg3 didnt and luck straight up outproduced him.  what luck did was much more impressive than rg3 making one read and then taking off to run because he couldnt read defenses 

[Myles]

4 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

they should  rename the award, its hard to be more valuable than a  good qb on an otherwise bad team. denver and NE would have been ok with an average qb, while the colts would have been terrible.  peterson was great, im not mad he got that

 

luck had to actually run an nfl offense though, rg3 didnt and luck straight up outproduced him.  what luck did was much more impressive than rg3 making one read and then taking off to run because he couldnt read defenses 

So you would give it to the guy who's team would have done the net worst without him playing?   That's fair, but still just as tough.   That would make this year interesting.   Mack on Chicago since they only won 5 games without him last year.   Is Brees disqualified this year because the Saints won 11 games last year?  KC won 10 games last year without MaHomes.   While"valuable" is not currently used much, we all know that it means the best stats on a good playoff team.   Mahomes or Brees this season.

[Pacergeek]

40 minutes ago, Myles said:

That was a typo, right?   You really don't think he should have won MVP in 2012 do you?  

 

Luck took over a 2 win team with no running game, no defense, no offensive line, to an 11 win season. Sounds like an MVP to me

[Luck 4 president]

I haven’t seen many people on here advocating for LVE over Leonard. I have seen some on twitter though and they always bring up PFF as a reason. To anyone who watched the game they saw that Leonard was much more dominant, but the ones who believe PFF is the law only see Leonard’s 49.8 grade and assume he played like trash. But don’t talk bad about PFF or their believers will mock your intelligence lol

[OffensivelyPC]

3 hours ago, aaron11 said:

its related.  leonards biggest competition plays in los angeles.  roty isnt a fan vote, but it is a media vote.  the media pays little attention to the colts and pacers

I know who votes, and more often than not, they know very little more than fans.  I still don't think small vs large market is historically significant - and even if it were, who is going to prove that?  It's pure speculation.  When we're looking at Chubb vs Leonard vs James, you can make cases for any of those guys and in some right, they all are deserving.  The only time media bias plays comes into picture is when the two stand side by side and one is clearly the better candidate by all generally acceptable measures (and for the record, "doing more with less" does not find its way on that list) yet they choose the other.  

 

That wasn't the case with Luck/RGIII, and it won't be the case between this years defensive rookies if things keep going the way the have been.

[aaron11]

27 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

(and for the record, "doing more with less" does not find its way on that list) yet they choose the other.  

 

luck did more period.  he straight up outproduced him, and he did that running a much harder offense and  with a worse team than griffin.  

 

[OffensivelyPC]

13 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

luck did more period.  he straight up outproduced him, and he did that running a much harder offense and  with a worse team than griffin.  

 

But it's not a quantifiable argument that anyone voting takes into account.  That's just the way it is.  

[BOTT]

7 hours ago, runthepost said:

I was talking about after his injury in the playoffs that’s what lead to his downfall. His rookie season was great tho.

His inability to make NFL throws led to his downfall....and being reckless with his body.

[BOTT]

6 hours ago, aaron11 said:

its related.  leonards biggest competition plays in los angeles.  roty isnt a fan vote, but it is a media vote.  the media pays little attention to the colts and pacers

Does any in LA care about the chargers?

[jskinnz]

9 hours ago, aaron11 said:

luck did more than him

 

Dear God....

 

[jskinnz]

6 hours ago, Pacergeek said:

 

Luck took over a 2 win team with no running game, no defense, no offensive line, to an 11 win season. Sounds like an MVP to me

 

More complete nonsense.

[aaron11]

7 minutes ago, jskinnz said:

 

Dear God....

 

its true.  luck out produced him running a tougher offense on a worse team. 

 

rg3 made one or two reads then took off running 

[jskinnz]

1 hour ago, aaron11 said:

its true.  luck out produced him running a tougher offense on a worse team. 

 

rg3 made one or two reads then took off running 

 

You can save the explanation.  

 

1) I did not need it.

2) That is not what got you the Dear God...

 

Quick - run to ESPN to find something else to feel slighted over.

[Maniac]

He locked it up 7 weeks ago, surely.

[aaron11]

9 hours ago, jskinnz said:

 

You can save the explanation.  

 

1) I did not need it.

2) That is not what got you the Dear God...

 

Quick - run to ESPN to find something else to feel slighted over.

if you dont want an explanation then dont start this with me.  if you paid any attention to the media you would see what im saying is true.  if you dont pay attention then dont comment 

[CheezyColt]

My girl Kay Adams had a nice segment on Darius Leonard this morning on GMFB on NFL Network proclaiming him DROY. So that's nice.

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[Smoke317]

I love me some Kay Adams.  I think Kyle Brandt has been pushing hard for the Colts on there too.  I like the show and all the hosts chemistry.

[The Fish]

If Friends was a A.M football show, it's awkward. 

 

The media has been talking up several other guys for the award, but if pure stats are the metric, Darius is going to get it. He's a blue chip guy now irrespective of award or no award and that's what matters. 

[Pacergeek]

On 12/17/2018 at 11:43 AM, runthepost said:

He probably thinks Nelson should win OROTY over Barkley too 

 

Why not Nelson? Last year, without Nelson, the O Line was terrible. This year, the O Line is one of the NFL's best. Last year, without Barkley, the Giants were a bad team. This year, the Giants are still terrible. 

 

It's about winning, not just looking at an Excel spreadsheet

[jvan1973]

The sports books have derwin James the odds on favorite.    I haven't watched a single chargers game this year.    So I don't know.    It's a meaningless award anyway.   Most individual awards are

[jvan1973]

59 minutes ago, Pacergeek said:

 

Why not Nelson? Last year, without Nelson, the O Line was terrible. This year, the O Line is one of the NFL's best. Last year, without Barkley, the Giants were a bad team. This year, the Giants are still terrible. 

 

It's about winning, not just looking at an Excel spreadsheet

An offensive guard has never won OROY.   I don't see that changing this year

[runthepost]

3 hours ago, Pacergeek said:

 

Why not Nelson? Last year, without Nelson, the O Line was terrible. This year, the O Line is one of the NFL's best. Last year, without Barkley, the Giants were a bad team. This year, the Giants are still terrible. 

 

It's about winning, not just looking at an Excel spreadsheet

If your going by that formula then James should win DROTY over Darrius Leonard 

[runthepost]

3 hours ago, Pacergeek said:

 

Why not Nelson? Last year, without Nelson, the O Line was terrible. This year, the O Line is one of the NFL's best. Last year, without Barkley, the Giants were a bad team. This year, the Giants are still terrible. 

 

It's about winning, not just looking at an Excel spreadsheet

Yes Nelson helps the line but so does the progression of Kelly and Luck getting rid of the ball quickly. Also the giants might have the worst line in the league but take a look at Barkley numbers 223 carries 1155 yards 5.2 yards a carry and 9 Tds , 82 recs 654 yards 4 Tds, he has a chance for 2000 total yards which isn’t easy. That deserves OROTY 

[compuls1v3]

3 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

An offensive guard has never won OROY.   I don't see that changing this year

While I don't DISAGREE with you, an offensive guard has never won Offensive Player of the Month either, so there's that....

[jvan1973]

40 minutes ago, compuls1v3 said:

While I don't DISAGREE with you, an offensive guard has never won Offensive Player of the Month either, so there's that....

True,   but it's gonna be barkley or Mayfield