Did Leonard lock up the Defensive Rookie of the Year

[ClaytonColt]

18 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

You clearly didn’t read my post and just formed your own assumption. I said Leonard’s numbers backed up him being D-ROY.  I’m not on here saying Autry is better than Donald or Sheard is better than Mack.  Yet our fans constantly search for reasons to minimize our great players.  I guess only Peyton gets diehard allegiance around here.  So cheer for whomever you guys want.  I’m ride or die with the Horseshoe.  

I didn't form any assumption. I asked for clarification on your position.

 

I think from your post the answer was yes. That's fine but you can't complain at people if they want to take a balanced and impartial view.

[Smoke317]

12 minutes ago, BOTT said:

99.9% of colts fans love Leonard....not sure why you are focusing on the .1% that don't.  

Well this was the BIG SHOWDOWN for Maniac & LVE.  And the last few posts have been direct responses to posts directed towards me.  I didn’t point out anyone in particular. 

[WoolMagnet]

Unless Jerry Jones "buys" it.

watching today, head to head, Leonard flashed imo. VDE played well but Leonard was on the tongues of the announcers all game.  Made som big plays too.

both played well but Leonard clearly jumped off the screen.

theyve also been talking up the SF safety lately (name escaping me)

[Smoke317]

5 minutes ago, ClaytonColt said:

I didn't form any assumption. I asked for clarification on your position.

 

I think from your post the answer was yes. That's fine but you can't come people if they want to take a balanced and impartial view.

You’re correct. You did seek clarification initially.  Then this time you kind of made an assumption.   But I have no problem with being balanced and impartial. In fact I prefer that. I don’t think minimizing Leonard’s numbers is being balanced and impartial though. 

[Scott Pennock]

3 hours ago, shastamasta said:

 

People have been raving about Leonard since the season started. It's just not a new story.

I know.......the Redskins game put him in the spotlight. I was just being dramatic

[Myles]

Leonard gained at least one Cowboy fan yesterday.   I went to the game and brought a Cowboy fan with me.   We got to our seats which were in a suite at field level in the endzone.      Sure enough, Leonard was right there and we chatted a bit and my buddy got his autograph.   Even borrowed his Sharpie to sign a few things for others.  He came back in 5 minutes to return the Sharpie.   He didn't know who he was, but after watching the game and seeing Leonard involved in so many plays, he said he is a fan now.  

[Pacergeek]

DROY is beneath Maniac. He’s had this award locked up since Week 2 when he destroyed Washington. The conversation should be moved to DPOY. Aaron Donald gets the hype, but he has lots of talent around him. What Leonard has done with this Colts defense is remarkable. He can tackle, blitz, and cover at exceptional levels. Already the league’s top LB. Maniac is best Rookie defender in NFL history. 

[lollygagger8]

Leonard has the DPOY wrapped up. Vander Esh is good, but c'mon. 

 

He's like a humble Ray Lewis (without the murder part). 

[NewEra]

12 minutes ago, lollygagger8 said:

Leonard has the DPOY wrapped up. Vander Esh is good, but c'mon. 

 

He's like a humble Ray Lewis (without the murder part). 

Hahahahahaha, to Lewis credit that incident changed his life for the good and he actually got it together. I did like his aggressive attitude on the field though. He just struck fear in offenses 

[aaron11]

making the playoff shoudnt matter for dpoy but being in this market might.  

 

most people have still never heard of him, if he played in dallas he would be a house hold name.  most of the voters probably cant find Indianapolis on a map

[stitches]

He didn't lock it up since Derwin James and Chubb are still playing great football, but IMO he eliminated LVE from the discussion. I've been swooning over LVE all season long. IMO he's going to be an elite MIKE for the next decade health permitting, but Leonard just flat out outplayed him yesterday... with a little help from Kelly and Nelson both of whom gave the business to LVE on multiple occasions. 

 

I don't even care if he wins it to be fair. What's much more important is that he's ours for the foreseeable future and it looks like he's just scratching the surface. In the long term those awards are meaningless. After some Superbowl wins and 5+ all pro seasons where exactly do you think a DROY award will rank? It will be a footnote that nobody will bother to read when his career is over. Just think about the all-time greats in the league. How many times have you heard "Oh and also he was defensive rookie of the year... I mean those 10 probowls are alright, but what puts him over the top is that DROY he won"? None... you never hear it. This award is the peewee trophy of NFL awards. It's a nice recognition for the effort and improvement those players have made up until the end of the first season and it will mean something to him right now because he's in the thick of it, but IMO Leonard has much bigger fish to fry going forward. If I could give up that award for a guarantee that Leonard will be relatively healthy during his career, I'd do it in a blink of an eye. 

[Myles]

39 minutes ago, Pacergeek said:

DROY is beneath Maniac. He’s had this award locked up since Week 2 when he destroyed Washington. The conversation should be moved to DPOY. Aaron Donald gets the hype, but he has lots of talent around him. What Leonard has done with this Colts defense is remarkable. He can tackle, blitz, and cover at exceptional levels. Already the league’s top LB. Maniac is best Rookie defender in NFL history. 

He doesn't have the DROY wrapped up by a long shot.   I think that after yesterday, he may be in the lead though.

Before this weeks games, the oddsmakers had him behind Derwin James by a bit.   If the Colts make the playoffs it will propel Leonard to the top, I believe.   James had 5 tackles this week vs Leonard and his 11 tackles, 1 TFL and 2 passes defended.  

[jskinnz]

14 hours ago, Smoke317 said:

What’s stupid is the denial.  I have no problem giving players credit for their accomplishments. In fact in all of my posts, I said that LVE was playing great. Leonard was just playing greater.  And the numbers backed that up.  So guys resorted to saying Leonard’s Numbers were hollow...

 

And I stand by what I said about “so called” Colts fans.  And that denial is the dumbest.  Go on the Cowboys forum & show me where their fans were advocating for Leonard & downplaying LVE.  Yet that happened here with our fans. I don’t know if it’s just small market self doubt, as people still say that LVE could have won just because of who Dallas is or Derwin James will win because of the LA market, as if that’s ok or would be justifiable. 

 

I wholeheartedly disagree with that premise.  It may happen but it would be an egregious robbery.  Leonard is leading the LEAGUE in tackles not just all rookies.  Leading ALL Rookies in many more categories and was even 2nd to Chubb in sacks at a non pass rush position.  And some fans around here seem unwilling to jump on board all in for Leonard.  It’s mind boggling because if Leonard had the same numbers & impact in Dallas or LA, you wouldn’t find a single Cowboys or Chargers fan advocating for anyone else but him.  

 

But around here...  

 

You speak in a whole lot of generalizations and paint with an awfully big brush.

 

I saw no one on the Colts board last week politicking for LVE.  What I saw were people who thought he might win the award because of the national notoriety that Dallas receives.  That is a long way from advocating for LVE.

 

I did spend time on a Cowboys message board last week (Cowboys Zone) and this exact topic was discussed.  I was pleasantly surprised at the # of people there who thought Leonard deserved the DPOY award.

 

And should Leonard not win the award - it will not be an egregious robbery with no other viable candidates.  Should James, Chubb, or even LVE win it, they will all have had great rookie seasons although  I do think Leonard clearly separated from LVE yesterday. 

[crazycolt1]

45 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

making the playoff shoudnt matter for dpoy but being in this market might.  

 

most people have still never heard of him, if he played in dallas he would be a house hold name.  most of the voters probably cant find Indianapolis on a map

The only people who have never heard of him are those who don't follow the NFL.

[aaron11]

10 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

The only people who have never heard of him are those who don't follow the NFL.

most people just go with homer picks for rookie of the year awards, like we are doing here.  if they dont have anyone in the running they look to the big markets that get all the coverage on espn 

 

fans in la couldnt find Indiana on a map, and they are going to vote for james no matter what leonard does.  they really are not paying him any attention 

[jskinnz]

1 hour ago, aaron11 said:

making the playoff shoudnt matter for dpoy but being in this market might.  

 

most people have still never heard of him, if he played in dallas he would be a house hold name.  most of the voters probably cant find Indianapolis on a map

 

Can we please let go of the ridiculous notion that Indy gets no respect.  People know who Leonard is.

 

11 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

most people just go with homer picks for rookie of the year awards, like we are doing here.  if they dont have anyone in the running they look to the big markets that get all the coverage on espn 

 

fans in la couldnt find Indiana on a map, and they are going to vote for james no matter what leonard does.  they really are not paying him any attention 

 

Please cite for me the homer picks that most people go with for DROY.

 

Who cares what fans say - they matter not and thank goodness.  

 

 

 

[Myles]

35 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

The only people who have never heard of him are those who don't follow the NFL.

I disagree.   I was at the game with a Dallas fan yesterday and he had never heard of Leonard.   Granted he really only pays attention to the Cowboys.   He's a Leonard fan now though because we talked to him and got is autograph.   He brought back our Sharpie after borrowing it too.   Now if you are only referring to die hard fans, then maybe.   I watch 2-3 games a week and watch sportscenter at lunch every day, and I've never heard of Derwin James until this week.  

[aaron11]

19 minutes ago, jskinnz said:

 

Can we please let go of the ridiculous notion that Indy gets no respect.  People know who Leonard is.

 

 

Please cite for me the homer picks that most people go with for DROY.

 

Who cares what fans say - they matter not and thank goodness.  

 

 

 

when has a colt won roty? luck should have got it but it went to the guy in the big market.  kelly deserved a pro bowl his rookie year, but got no attention due to where he was

 

fans may not matter, but the media does and they are in la and on the east coast

[Smoke317]

1 hour ago, jskinnz said:

 

You speak in a whole lot of generalizations and paint with an awfully big brush.

 

I saw no one on the Colts board last week politicking for LVE.  What I saw were people who thought he might win the award because of the national notoriety that Dallas receives.  That is a long way from advocating for LVE.

 

I did spend time on a Cowboys message board last week (Cowboys Zone) and this exact topic was discussed.  I was pleasantly surprised at the # of people there who thought Leonard deserved the DPOY award.

 

And should Leonard not win the award - it will not be an egregious robbery with no other viable candidates.  Should James, Chubb, or even LVE win it, they will all have had great rookie seasons although  I do think Leonard clearly separated from LVE yesterday. 

Sorry, but I find minimalizing Leonard’s numbers & impact in order to bring him down to his competitor’s level is politicking.  One even said an LVE game where he had like 8 combined & 6 solos only was better than Leonard’s game of 19 combined, 15 solos, 1 sack & 1 pass defensed.

 

Interesting though that some in Cowboys nation feel Leonard deserves the reward.  Now imagine if the numbers were reversed & LVE was leading the league in tackles & had eye popping numbers across the board & impact like Leonard?  That number saying Leonard deserves it would be less than zero...

 

And this rookie class has been excellent on both offense & defense.  And I think James, Chubb, & LVE have had wonderful seasons.  But their numbers pale in comparison to Leonard’s.  I think the Maniac has clearly separated himself from the pack & it would take an egregious robbery (I stand by that) to gift the reward to someone else.

[Myles]

5 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

Sorry, but I find minimalizing Leonard’s numbers & impact in order to bring him down to his competitor’s level is politicking.  One even said an LVE game where he had like 8 combined & 6 solos only was better than Leonard’s game of 19 combined, 15 solos, 1 sack & 1 pass defensed.

 

Interesting though that some in Cowboys nation feel Leonard deserves the reward.  Now imagine if the numbers were reversed & LVE was leading the league in tackles & had eye popping numbers across the board & impact like Leonard?  That number saying Leonard deserves it would be less than zero...

 

And this rookie class has been excellent on both offense & defense.  And I think James, Chubb, & LVE have had wonderful seasons.  But their numbers pale in comparison to Leonard’s.  I think the Maniac has clearly separated himself from the pack & it would take an egregious robbery (I stand by that) to gift the reward to someone else.

I think you are taking a few misguided or troll opinions and generalizing a whole group.   I have seen very few on the Colts board say LVE should get it just like you've seen very few on the Cowboys board say Leonard should get it.  

 

I think Leonard should get it fairly easily, but he may not.   There are other factors:

1 - Whether your team makes the playoffs.  

2 - The market they are in.  

3 - If you have drawn attention to yourself.

These are all factors.   The only one I can justify being relevant is #1.  

[jskinnz]

39 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

when has a colt won roty? luck should have got it but it went to the guy in the big market.  kelly deserved a pro bowl his rookie year, but got no attention due to where he was

 

fans may not matter, but the media does and they are in la and on the east coast

 

RGIII had a phenomenal rookie season.  His winning that award was completely reasonable.

 

Re - Kelly...  The Pro Bowl centers that year were Mack, Frederick, Pouncey and Kalil - all outstanding players.  Which one do you take off for Kelly?  Are all those guys in big markets at the time.  And you how do you know that his being "overlooked" was due to where he was?

 

People would be well served to get over this inferiority complex.  

[Fluke_33]

2 hours ago, Pacergeek said:

Maniac is best Rookie defender in NFL history. 

 

He is great but not better than LT

[aaron11]

5 minutes ago, jskinnz said:

 

RGIII had a phenomenal rookie season.  His winning that award was completely reasonable.

 

Re - Kelly...  The Pro Bowl centers that year were Mack, Frederick, Pouncey and Kalil - all outstanding players.  Which one do you take off for Kelly?  Are all those guys in big markets at the time.  And you how do you know that his being "overlooked" was due to where he was?

 

People would be well served to get over this inferiority complex.  

luck was better, period.  so was kelly, take any of them off it doesnt matter

 

you can ignore it if you want, but market size does effect these things.  indy is one of the smallest markets in the nfl

 

maybe you should get over your telling people how to think complex

[Myles]

2 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

luck was better, period.  so was kelly, take any of them off it doesnt matter

 

you can ignore it if you want, but market size does effect these things.  

Kelly had no chance to get the awards on a horrible Indy O-line.  

[aaron11]

its 100% fact that our teams dont get much national media coverage.  they hardly mentioned us last week after beating the texans.  they are talking now, but only because we played the most popular team in the league
 

its even worse for the pacers

[runthepost]

2 hours ago, Pacergeek said:

DROY is beneath Maniac. He’s had this award locked up since Week 2 when he destroyed Washington. The conversation should be moved to DPOY. Aaron Donald gets the hype, but he has lots of talent around him. What Leonard has done with this Colts defense is remarkable. He can tackle, blitz, and cover at exceptional levels. Already the league’s top LB. Maniac is best Rookie defender in NFL history. 

He’s good but let’s not get ahead of ourselves with top LB and defensive player of the year. There’s still a chance James or Chubb will get it over him depending on these last few games.

[runthepost]

13 minutes ago, jskinnz said:

 

RGIII had a phenomenal rookie season.  His winning that award was completely reasonable.

 

Re - Kelly...  The Pro Bowl centers that year were Mack, Frederick, Pouncey and Kalil - all outstanding players.  Which one do you take off for Kelly?  Are all those guys in big markets at the time.  And you how do you know that his being "overlooked" was due to where he was?

 

People would be well served to get over this inferiority complex.  

The redskins ruined RG3 and it didn’t help he was a run first qb

[jskinnz]

1 minute ago, runthepost said:

The redskins ruined RG3 and it didn’t help he was a run first qb

 

Fantastic.

 

Tell me how that impacts the stats he put his rookie season?

[aaron11]

3 minutes ago, jskinnz said:

 

Fantastic.

 

Tell me how that impacts the stats he put his rookie season?

luck did more than him

[jskinnz]

21 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

luck was better, period.  so was kelly, take any of them off it doesnt matter

 

you can ignore it if you want, but market size does effect these things.  indy is one of the smallest markets in the nfl

 

maybe you should get over your telling people how to think complex

 

Dear God...

 

Luck Rookie Year

54% Completion Percentage

4374 Yards

23 TDs

18 Ints

76.5 Rating

255 rushing yards

 

RG3 Rookie Stats

65% completion

3200 yards

20 TDs

5 Ints

102.4 rating

815 rushing yards

 

How is it that RG3 was not a deserving winner?  He clearly was.   

 

Your Kelly take is comical.  

 

 

8 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

luck did more than him

 

Debatable

[aaron11]

9 minutes ago, jskinnz said:

 

Dear God...

 

Luck Rookie Year

54% Completion Percentage

4374 Yards

23 TDs

18 Ints

76.5 Rating

255 rushing yards

 

RG3 Rookie Stats

65% completion

3200 yards

20 TDs

5 Ints

102.4 rating

815 rushing yards

 

How is it that RG3 was not a deserving winner?  He clearly was.   

 

Your Kelly take is comical.  

 

 

 

luck did more though, roty isnt about qb rating.  the colts asked to him to run a much harder offense than rg3 and it worked.  he lead a team to the playoffs that was thought to be among the worst in the league week 1.  rg3 made like 1 read and took off and ran if it wasnt there, he actually wasnt that great

 

how is my kelly take comical? he was among the best centers in the league and got zero recognition for the pro bowl.  

[WarGhost21]

He should have it locked up by now. If that FG block return wasn’t called back, there wouldn’t be any more questions about it, but either way unless something crazy happens, he’ll win

[Myles]

18 minutes ago, jskinnz said:

 

 

 

Luck Rookie Year

54% Completion Percentage

4374 Yards

23 TDs

18 Ints

76.5 Rating

255 rushing yards

 

RG3 Rookie Stats

65% completion

3200 yards

20 TDs

5 Ints

102.4 rating

815 rushing yards

 

 

I think you just proved your point beyond any rational argument. 

[aaron11]

Just now, Myles said:

I think you just proved your point beyond any rational argument. 

how is that?  luck had more yards and tds even factoring in rushing yards

 

griffin had a better completion %, but he didn attempt many tough passes either 

[Fluke_33]

3 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

how is that?  luck had more yards and tds even factoring in rushing yards

 

griffin had a better completion %, but he didn attempt many tough passes either 

I think because his main point is that RG3 winning the award was reasonable.   He didn't say it was a landslide win or anything.   It's hard to argue that it wasn't reasonable given the stats, etc.

[aaron11]

Just now, Fluke_33 said:

I think because his main point is that RG3 winning the award was reasonable.   He didn't say it was a landslide win or anything.   It's hard to argue that it wasn't reasonable given the stats, etc.

 

yeah it was close and it went to the guy in the big market.  that was kind of my point, if they switch teams luck probably gets it.  the colts are one of the least watched teams in the league 

 

i cant easily prove that, but you can get an idea from looking at coverage maps and listening to analysts 

[Fluke_33]

2 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

 

yeah it was close and it went to the guy in the big market.  that was kind of my point, if they switch teams luck probably gets it.  the colts are one of the least watched teams in the league 

 

i cant easily prove that, but you can get an idea from looking at coverage maps and listening to analysts 

oh i know.  i look at the coverage maps weekly.  This last game was the first we were the national game in new england area.  

[OffensivelyPC]

I see this thread is about halfway through on its descent into madness.

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, Fluke_33 said:

 

He is great but not better than LT

Well I don't think Leonard is cranked up on coke like LT was, so that is debatable.

[Fluke_33]

1 minute ago, crazycolt1 said:

Well I don't think Leonard is cranked up on coke like LT was, so that is debatable.

Do you play better on coke?  i don't think that is on the list of banned performance enhancers.

 

(i am being sarcastic.  ugh.  i hate when you have to say it.)