If there is 1 guy whose hype isn’t thanks to ease of the passing era

[BloodyChamp]

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

6 minutes ago, BloodyChamp said:

 

I know why you Posted this and I dont blame you. Dude looks like Favre with that stuff 

[Jackie Daytona]

carries ball like a loaf of bread, he's great, but even he benefits from this era's rules, amazing as he is, he doesn't play in a vacuum.

[BloodyChamp]

His volume stats are the results of this era, as are everybody else’s. If 17-14 games were as common as they used to be he’d have alot of 2 TD days. He’s great and while the sophomore slouch is still on my radar, his would be the biggest crash back to Earth ever.

[Chrisaaron1023]

13 hours ago, BloodyChamp said:

 

I still cant believe that no look pass... how in the world did he do that?! and he was moving the to the right.. i'm so confused lol

 

he's 12 TD's away from tying Peyton Manning's single season record.. with potentially 2 shootouts left... 4 per game

[JimJaime]

Be interesting see how well he does with the next man up happens to him.  First he lost Hunt, and I heard Hill got hurt in the Ravens game. Losing Hill for any amount of time will hurt the Chiefs, the man is a freak of nature with speed and hands.  

 

I think Mahommes will be a top 7 QB but I suspect he (like most great QB) will struggle against good Ds.. so I look forward to their game against the Chargers, who have both D and an O. 

[King Colt]

Rookies aren't rookies anymore. Compare today's rookies with those of the years when rookies sat the bench for years waiting for the starter to retire or get injured.  "Aaron Rodgers", "Tom Brady"

[Myles]

11 hours ago, BloodyChamp said:

His volume stats are the results of this era, as are everybody else’s.

 

Yep.   He's very good, but not as good as his stats are.  

We are at a time where a 90+ rating is mediocre.  

[dgambill]

I ain't going to lie..Peyton played for half of the passer happy era. I don't think anyone beats most of Marino's records and Favres without it...heck Favre's numbers went through the roof at the end even at like 39-40. Peyton, Brees, Brady no way those guys play til 40 without the rules protecting qbs. I'm pretty sure there will be no records left when these new crop of qbs finish playing (Luck, Ryan, Mahomes, Newton etc). They are untouchable out there and so are their WRs. It's fine...that's the NFLs choice...but comparing players from different era's...well it will be almost impossible.

 

That all said he is uber talented...but the question will remain...will he work hard to keep getting better, to learn the game better, study etc...or rely on his talent. Longevity for him will require it. Teams change and defenses catch up. Heck...I've often thought Rodgers relied too much on his ability...and now we are starting to see as his skills diminish so has his play...a lot more than say like Brady or Brees and company.

[MPStack]

9 hours ago, dgambill said:

I ain't going to lie..Peyton played for half of the passer happy era. I don't think anyone beats most of Marino's records and Favres without it...heck Favre's numbers went through the roof at the end even at like 39-40. Peyton, Brees, Brady no way those guys play til 40 without the rules protecting qbs. I'm pretty sure there will be no records left when these new crop of qbs finish playing (Luck, Ryan, Mahomes, Newton etc). They are untouchable out there and so are their WRs. It's fine...that's the NFLs choice...but comparing players from different era's...well it will be almost impossible.

 

That all said he is uber talented...but the question will remain...will he work hard to keep getting better, to learn the game better, study etc...or rely on his talent. Longevity for him will require it. Teams change and defenses catch up. Heck...I've often thought Rodgers relied too much on his ability...and now we are starting to see as his skills diminish so has his play...a lot more than say like Brady or Brees and company.

You lost me at Cam Newton!

[BloodyChamp]

On 12/10/2018 at 9:42 AM, Myles said:

 

Yep.   He's very good, but not as good as his stats are.  

We are at a time where a 90+ rating is mediocre.  

 

He’s as good as his stats are. He’s making plays all over the field with his arms and legs, and not just playing Captain Checkdown like Brady or let’s score 1 more TD against the Buccs in the last 8 seconds like Brees.

 

Apparently Andy Reid clock management is still a thing though. The Chargers earned it but the Chiefs should have iced that, especially after the ref gifts on their last scoring drive.

[Myles]

7 hours ago, BloodyChamp said:

 

He’s as good as his stats are. He’s making plays all over the field with his arms and legs, and not just playing Captain Checkdown like Brady or let’s score 1 more TD against the Buccs in the last 8 seconds like Brees.

 

I guess technically he is,  but he wouldn't be doing this if this were 1998.    He'd still be good, just wouldn't have stats like these.  

[Finball]

11 hours ago, MPStack said:

You lost me at Cam Newton!

 

He's broken or will break quite a few QB rushing or rushing and passing records that will probably remain unbroken for a while.

 

[MPStack]

10 minutes ago, Finball said:

 

He's broken or will break quite a few QB rushing or rushing and passing records that will probably remain unbroken for a while.

 

SMH

 

[Finball]

4 minutes ago, MPStack said:

SMH

 

 

Huh?

[MPStack]

9 minutes ago, Finball said:

 

Huh?

If you’re using Newton rushing as a benchmark to define C. Newton as an elite QB. 

Shake My Head!

How’s that?

[compuls1v3]

9 hours ago, BloodyChamp said:

 

He’s as good as his stats are. He’s making plays all over the field with his arms and legs, and not just playing Captain Checkdown like Brady or let’s score 1 more TD against the Buccs in the last 8 seconds like Brees.

 

Apparently Andy Reid clock management is still a thing though. The Chargers earned it but the Chiefs should have iced that, especially after the ref gifts on their last scoring drive.

Mahomes can't take that sack.  He'll learn. 

[Finball]

1 minute ago, MPStack said:

If you’re using Newton rushing as a benchmark to define C. Newton as an elite QB. 

Shake My Head!

How’s that?

 

Didn't say anything about him being elite QB. Just about his current/likely future records, which was the context where Newton was brought up in dgambill's post.

[MPStack]

40 minutes ago, Finball said:

 

Didn't say anything about him being elite QB. Just about his current/likely future records, which was the context where Newton was brought up in dgambill's post.

Tracking! The conversation went from Manning, Brady and Brees to Luck, Ryan and Mahomes. 

 

Newton does not belong in that group! His rushing numbers do not make him a Tier 1QB. 

[chad72]

18 minutes ago, MPStack said:

Tracking! The conversation went from Manning, Brady and Brees to Luck, Ryan and Mahomes. 

 

Newton does not belong in that group! His rushing numbers do not make him a Tier 1QB. 

 

There is a reason Luck is not rushing too much this year. Not sustainable rushing for 50-100 yards every game as a QB if you want to play 10-15 years.

[MPStack]

11 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

There is a reason Luck is not rushing too much this year. Not sustainable rushing for 50-100 yards every game as a QB if you want to play 10-15 years.

If you put Luck on Carolina, I gaurentee the Panthers wouldn’t have lost 6 games in a row. Duh

[BloodyChamp]

He would be at the top whether the top was 50 TDs or 30 TDs. Brees and Brady would not at their age. Either they would be hurt or they would have had to fold because they would have gotten every Slot WR they threw to decapitated with their lobs.

[Finball]

1 hour ago, MPStack said:

Tracking! The conversation went from Manning, Brady and Brees to Luck, Ryan and Mahomes. 

 

Newton does not belong in that group! His rushing numbers do not make him a Tier 1QB. 

 

Dgambill's post wasn't about ability, it was about records. And some of Newton's records are far less likely to be broken than anything set by Ryan or Luck. He isn't as good as Luck and probably not as good as Ryan but Ryan has had better weapons throughout his career. And lately it's been clear his shoulder is in bad shape.

 

Matt Ryan doesn't have exactly many seasons as tier 1 QB either. '16 with Shanahan and maybe this year. Not sure how long he remains at that level as he's already losing arm strength.

[MPStack]

11 minutes ago, Finball said:

 

Dgambill's post wasn't about ability, it was about records. And some of Newton's records are far less likely to be broken than anything set by Ryan or Luck. He isn't as good as Luck and probably not as good as Ryan but Ryan has had better weapons throughout his career. And lately it's been clear his shoulder is in bad shape.

 

Matt Ryan doesn't have exactly many seasons as tier 1 QB either. '16 with Shanahan and maybe this year. Not sure how long he remains at that level as he's already losing arm strength.

Regardless, it makes no sense IMO, putting Luck, Ryan, Mahomes and Newton in a discussion about records. 

 

One hasn't even even finished his first season. 

 

Newton is a career 59.7 Pct passer.  His rushing TDs are immaterial as a QB. Vick is a good example! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Finball]

2 minutes ago, MPStack said:

Regardless, it makes no sense IMO, putting Luck, Ryan, Mahomes and Newton in a discussion about records. 

 

One hasn't even even finished his first season. 

 

Newton is a career 59.7 Pct passer.  His rushing TDs are immaterial as a QB. Vick is a good example! 

 

 

Well I kind of do agree with your first point.

 

Comp % alone doesn't say much. He does lack the precision accuracy (especially on short throws) that the elite guys have but makes up for it with a strong arm, somewhat. This season he's completing almost 69% of his passes, a clear career high by huge margin, despite not being any accurate than he was in '14, '15 and '17. Maybe even less because of his injury. They just changed the scheme in Carolina as Norv Turner came in. 

 

His rushing prowess allows him to be effective QB and hard to defend despite not being great pure passer. He would be average at best without his running skills. Vick would've been bad if he couldn't run, maybe not even starter material. But he remained one for a long time because his rushing made him that much harder to defend.

[dgambill]

18 hours ago, MPStack said:

You lost me at Cam Newton!

Cam has TONS of qb rushing records. He would not be running like he does in the "OLD" NFL. He would be out of the league with CTE by now. Just saying...the stuff that was done to Randall Cunningham and Steve Young...Cam would have tapped out and wouldn't be willing to carry the ball like he does. Since he knows he can just slide and be ok...yeah it isn't just passing records that are getting obliterated...rushing too.

[dgambill]

5 hours ago, Finball said:

 

Dgambill's post wasn't about ability, it was about records. And some of Newton's records are far less likely to be broken than anything set by Ryan or Luck. He isn't as good as Luck and probably not as good as Ryan but Ryan has had better weapons throughout his career. And lately it's been clear his shoulder is in bad shape.

 

Matt Ryan doesn't have exactly many seasons as tier 1 QB either. '16 with Shanahan and maybe this year. Not sure how long he remains at that level as he's already losing arm strength.

Thank you. My post was simply about qb records falling..and the proliferation of numbers exploding in the NFL. Cam is an example of the fact that in a few short years he has blown away all the rushing records that took others a career to set. It wouldn't be the case if he played in the old NFL. The game has changed and these qbs are benefiting....Cam included in a separate way.

[LockeDown]

Mahomes and Wilson remind me of Tarkenton.  They keep scrambling as long as possible until they see someone open. They all 3 avoid big hits.  Luck and Newton run for yardage and take big hits because they are built like linebackers and have a tough guy mindset. No more of that for Luck. I have often wonder why Luck doesn’t scramble like that.  He could.

[Dingus McGirt]

Nothing more to say about today's untouchable QB's.

[DraftMaster]

On 12/13/2018 at 9:49 PM, MPStack said:

You lost me at Cam Newton!

he lost me at Ryan 

[MPStack]

Another crap game by Cam, but the shoes were cute.