Bills release Kelvin Benjamin, should we?

[Shive]

1 hour ago, AustinnKaine said:

We should sign him. There really isn't a downside. 

The downside is giving up an active roster spot for a guy that most likely wouldn't be able to contribute for another 2 or 3 weeks (at best) while he learns the playbook. Based on his prior work ethic, it could take longer. He may be a guy that would be worth trying on the 90 man roster, but not the 53.

[crazycolt1]

25 minutes ago, Shive said:

The downside is giving up an active roster spot for a guy that most likely wouldn't be able to contribute for another 2 or 3 weeks (at best) while he learns the playbook. Based on his prior work ethic, it could take longer. He may be a guy that would be worth trying on the 90 man roster, but not the 53.

------------------------------------------Training camp next year?  There is only a 53 and a 10 man practice squad. I don't think he qualifies for the practice squad so if Ballard does sign him it will be to the 53. 

[Shive]

1 hour ago, crazycolt1 said:

------------------------------------------Training camp next year?  There is only a 53 and a 10 man practice squad. I don't think he qualifies for the practice squad so if Ballard does sign him it will be to the 53. 

That's what I'm saying. I wouldn't bring a player like Benjamin in at this point in the season, with a potential playoff spot on the line. He'd be taking up a vital roster spot while not being able to contribute anything for at least a few weeks. He needs an entire offseason with a new team, not a week or 2.

[jskinnz]

10 hours ago, Blueblood23 said:

We have four games left. Sometimes a change of scenery can stimulate a player. It happened in Dallas with Cooper. I'd rather shoot and miss than not shoot at all.

 

When a guy repeatedly shows you who he is, believe him.

 

There is literally a thread for every player with name recognition who gets released.

1) They can't sign them all.

2) There is a reason for the release.

3) In this case the guy has been traded and released twice already.  I think the only thing that will stimulate him is a buffet.  This is not remotely close to an Amari Cooper situation.

[Valpo2004]

11 hours ago, Shive said:

The downside is giving up an active roster spot for a guy that most likely wouldn't be able to contribute for another 2 or 3 weeks (at best) while he learns the playbook. Based on his prior work ethic, it could take longer. He may be a guy that would be worth trying on the 90 man roster, but not the 53.

 

Honestly I think you changed my mind on this.

 

I wouldn't mind giving him a shot in camp next year where he can learn the playbook and can be evaluated.

 

But at this point in the season even if he turned out well, it's unlikely he'd be able to help us much.  

 

 

[Defjamz26]

Ill pass. I’m not sure what the obsession is with reclamation project, but I think he’s done. His comments about Cam so he’s unprofessional and not a team player, which doesn’t fit our culture. He’s a one trick pony who isn’t even a master at his one trick. He’s lazy and overweight. He’s so bad that a team who has no top WR still cut him. That’s saying something IMO.

[onebad150]

18 hours ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

If the deal isn't way over his value I'd definitely take him hes better than Grant lol

 

Plus did you see our WRs against Jax they were all terrible I'd take anyone at that position and give them a chance 

I am a NO on Benjamin, Seems to have a injury history, and is not productive when on field. The talent/size is there,,, production is not. 

Anyone explain to me why Grant is still on the team?????

[CR91]

the guy is lazy and out of shape. the only thing he has going for him is that hes 6'6

[NorthernBlue]

22 hours ago, shastamasta said:

 

Good point about Collins. Not sure how people could be for the Collins pickup, but against rolling the dice on Benjamin.

Well Collins hasn’t (from what I know) shown a disinterest in playing football. He did say recently he’s committed to working. Benjamin is kinda just lazy. 

 

Take chances on talented guys who at least show a commitment to getting better. Benjamin hasn’t really.

[zibby43]

On 12/4/2018 at 4:30 PM, zibby43 said:

He has a reputation of not taking his craft seriously (examples of behavior supporting that claim: showing up to camp overweight, spends less time honing his route running compared to teammates).

 

I was much more interested in Cooper.  Cooper had his flaws too . . . but he has completely ignited that Cowboys offense in a very short period of time.

 

On the flip side, Benjamin would provide a body type that the Colts haven't had in a long time.

 

 

 

23 hours ago, John Waylon said:

 

Hard no. 

 

[crazycolt1]

6 hours ago, onebad150 said:

I am a NO on Benjamin, Seems to have a injury history, and is not productive when on field. The talent/size is there,,, production is not. 

Anyone explain to me why Grant is still on the team?????

He is under contract?

[Shive]

On 12/4/2018 at 5:20 PM, shastamasta said:

 

Good point about Collins. Not sure how people could be for the Collins pickup, but against rolling the dice on Benjamin.

Collins has practice squad eligibility and can be brought along without wasting a spot on the 53 man roster. I don't see how Collins and Benjamin's situations are remotely similar.

[shasta519]

4 hours ago, NorthernBlue said:

Well Collins hasn’t (from what I know) shown a disinterest in playing football. He did say recently he’s committed to working. Benjamin is kinda just lazy. 

 

Take chances on talented guys who at least show a commitment to getting better. Benjamin hasn’t really.

 

How do "commitment" (of any kind) and "four suspensions" go together? If he was truly committed, he would have stopped getting suspended two or three times ago.

 

I have no problem with the Collins pickup. I am just saying it's weird that people would be against Benjamin. EVERYONE was cool when the news broke that Ballard was working out (and eventually signing) Collins...but Kelvin Benjamin...an actual player with NFL production at a position of need who isn't coming off a 10-game suspension,...gets a "no" from so many people.

 

The funny part is if if a report comes out that the Colts are working out Benjamin...so many people will do a 180.

[shasta519]

2 hours ago, Shive said:

Collins has practice squad eligibility and can be brought along without wasting a spot on the 53 man roster. I don't see how Collins and Benjamin's situations are remotely similar.

 

You're right...Collins has almost no NFL production to draw from.  

 

But it's not like Collins will stay on the PS forever...eventually he is going to take a roster spot...or what else is the point. And at that time,..the same risks will still apply. There's no guarantee that's "bringing him along" is going to prevent another suspension...or mean he will be a good player. 

 

But really...who cares if Benjamin takes a 53-man roster spot. He is better every WR than every Colts WR not named TY. If anyone is wasting a roster spot...it's Rogers or Grant or Pascal...or all of them. Those three have a combined 11 catches for 109 yard over the past FOUR games. Yet somehow Kelvin Benjamin is a worse option.

 

[Colts_Fan12]

Speaking of collins I really wish he would come to the 53 so we can see how he looks!!

[Dark Superman]

KB completely fell off after his rookie season. It's sad because the guy has all the traits to be a Pro Bowl player but his attitude and lack of motivation is his downfall. Definitely not a guy Chris Ballard needs to bring into this locker room.

[Yoshinator]

5 minutes ago, Savage56 said:

KB completely fell off after his rookie season. It's sad because the guy has all the traits to be a Pro Bowl player but his attitude and lack of motivation is his downfall. Definitely not a guy Chris Ballard needs to bring into this locker room.

Agreed. Even Bills fans were glad to see him go. Guy is hot garbage.

[Shive]

3 hours ago, shastamasta said:

 

You're right...Collins has almost no NFL production to draw from.  

 

But it's not like Collins will stay on the PS forever...eventually he is going to take a roster spot...or what else is the point. And at that time,..the same risks will still apply. There's no guarantee that's "bringing him along" is going to prevent another suspension...or mean he will be a good player. 

 

But really...who cares if Benjamin takes a 53-man roster spot. He is better every WR than every Colts WR not named TY. If anyone is wasting a roster spot...it's Rogers or Grant or Pascal...or all of them. Those three have a combined 11 catches for 109 yard over the past FOUR games. Yet somehow Kelvin Benjamin is a worse option.

 

Collins has starting experience and has the ability to stay on the practice squad until he's ready. He would absolutely take up a spot on the 53 man roster, but he'd be ready to contribute immediately.

 

Benjamin has a 35% catch rate. He's not any better than any other WR, especially since he rarely actually catches the ball. Pascal and Roger's have added ST value as well, which KB wouldn't bring to the table either.

 

 

3 hours ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Speaking of collins I really wish he would come to the 53 so we can see how he looks!!

Eberflus said he's still learning how to practice how they practice as a team (full speed), so it sounds like he's not quite there yet.

[Colts_Fan12]

46 minutes ago, Shive said:

Eberflus said he's still learning how to practice how they practice as a team (full speed), so it sounds like he's not quite there yet.

That's atleast some damn info! Thanks I cant ever seem to find anything about him

[richard pallo]

9 hours ago, Shive said:

Collins has starting experience and has the ability to stay on the practice squad until he's ready. He would absolutely take up a spot on the 53 man roster, but he'd be ready to contribute immediately.

 

Benjamin has a 35% catch rate. He's not any better than any other WR, especially since he rarely actually catches the ball. Pascal and Roger's have added ST value as well, which KB wouldn't bring to the table either.

 

 

Eberflus said he's still learning how to practice how they practice as a team (full speed), so it sounds like he's not quite there yet.

Sounds like last years version of Quincy. 

[aaron11]

On 12/4/2018 at 5:30 PM, Colts_Fan12 said:

My point was just that people were mad we got collins instead of gordon when gordon was traded not signed for cheap to the practice squad its like some just don't understand simple things lol

we could have traded for gordon.  he went for a 5th round pick and 700k cap hit

[Superman]

16 hours ago, shastamasta said:

 

How do "commitment" (of any kind) and "four suspensions" go together? If he was truly committed, he would have stopped getting suspended two or three times ago.

 

I have no problem with the Collins pickup. I am just saying it's weird that people would be against Benjamin. EVERYONE was cool when the news broke that Ballard was working out (and eventually signing) Collins...but Kelvin Benjamin...an actual player with NFL production at a position of need who isn't coming off a 10-game suspension,...gets a "no" from so many people.

 

The funny part is if if a report comes out that the Colts are working out Benjamin...so many people will do a 180.

 

Ehh... If the Colts want to inquire about Benjamin and even sign him, right on.

 

My angle is it's pretty obvious what his problem is -- he appears to not care about staying in shape, and he comes off as a bad teammate. Add to that the fact that he his production has decreased every year since he was a rookie, and it seems obvious why people don't think he'd come in and make the team better. And since the "bring him in!" crowd mostly seems to think that his talent would automatically make him a great fit, the push back comes from people who think he's a lazy, entitled waste of a roster spot.

 

Collins is in a completely different lane. He had no problem with being in shape; in fact, it could be argued he was trying too hard to be in shape. His value as a teammate is questionable, given the fact that he's gotten himself suspended multiple times. But they signed him to the practice squad, where there's basically zero risk to the team. If he doesn't work his butt off, you move on.

 

In contrast, Benjamin is not PS eligible, so you would have to get rid of an active player to make room for him. 

 

Now if they sign him to the 90 man roster and he gets to work in the offseason, maybe he'll have some value. But right now, I don't think he's even remotely worth the Colts' time.

[Colts_Fan12]

8 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

we could have traded for gordon.  he went for a 5th round pick and 700k cap hit

And as you can see Ballard didnt wanna trade the 5th round pick it's really not hard to understand 

[jskinnz]

13 hours ago, Shive said:

 

Eberflus said he's (Collins) still learning how to practice how they practice as a team (full speed), so it sounds like he's not quite there yet.

 

I saw that quote and it does not bode or speak well for Collins.  This is his last chance and to not be aware of the need to go all out all the time sounds is not good.  My take - it sounded like a guy who is closer to being cut than being moved up to the 53.  

[aaron11]

7 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

And as you can see Ballard didnt wanna trade the 5th round pick it's really not hard to understand 

and people dont like that, not hard to understand

[Superman]

5 minutes ago, jskinnz said:

 

I saw that quote and it does not bode or speak well for Collins.  This is his last chance and to not be aware of the need to go all out all the time sounds is not good.  My take - it sounded like a guy who is closer to being cut than being moved up to the 53.  

 

Yeah, having your effort questioned by the coordinator isn't a good sign. Maybe it means he's not sure what to do yet, which is still a problem, but not one of effort.

[Colts_Fan12]

4 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

and people dont like that, not hard to understand

Also gordon wouldn't be going to the practice squad like collins did. sorry our fanbase cant understand that Ballard values draft capital 

[aaron11]

3 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Also gordon wouldn't be going to the practice squad like collins did. sorry our fanbase cant understand that Ballard values draft capital 

one of the best receivers in the league is worth more than a 5th round pick.  if he didnt pan out that pick would have turned into just a 6th 

[Colts_Fan12]

7 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Yeah, having your effort questioned by the coordinator isn't a good sign. Maybe it means he's not sure what to do yet, which is still a problem, but not one of effort.

Maybe it has to do with him not quite being in top football shape after being out for so long? 

[jskinnz]

29 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

one of the best receivers in the league is worth more than a 5th round pick.  if he didnt pan out that pick would have turned into just a 6th 

 

Is this 2013?

[aaron11]

22 minutes ago, jskinnz said:

 

Is this 2013?

nope 2018

 

 

doesnt look like his team mates thought he was a locker room cancer either

[jskinnz]

10 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

nope 2018

 

 

doesnt look like his team mates thought he was a locker room cancer either

 

Nice play.  I can show you a good play that Mo Allie Cox made earlier this year.  You think he is one the best TE's in the game? 

 

IMO you have to go pretty deep into WR depth league wide before you get to Gordon.  Like I said - this ain't 2013.

 

Not sure what the cancer comment has to do with anything - not sure I ever claimed he was a locker room cancer.  But he is one step from being out of the league forever with a penchant getting really close to the line to not cross.  I can plainly see why teams would pass on him to not just join the team but to give up draft capital to get him.

[shasta519]

32 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Ehh... If the Colts want to inquire about Benjamin and even sign him, right on.

 

My angle is it's pretty obvious what his problem is -- he appears to not care about staying in shape, and he comes off as a bad teammate. Add to that the fact that he his production has decreased every year since he was a rookie, and it seems obvious why people don't think he'd come in and make the team better. And since the "bring him in!" crowd mostly seems to think that his talent would automatically make him a great fit, the push back comes from people who think he's a lazy, entitled waste of a roster spot.

 

Collins is in a completely different lane. He had no problem with being in shape; in fact, it could be argued he was trying too hard to be in shape. His value as a teammate is questionable, given the fact that he's gotten himself suspended multiple times. But they signed him to the practice squad, where there's basically zero risk to the team. If he doesn't work his butt off, you move on.

 

In contrast, Benjamin is not PS eligible, so you would have to get rid of an active player to make room for him. 

 

Now if they sign him to the 90 man roster and he gets to work in the offseason, maybe he'll have some value. But right now, I don't think he's even remotely worth the Colts' time.

 

I see the other side...I just disagree with it. And it seems like a double standard to cheer on Ballard for signing Collins and then be against the idea of Benjamin.

 

Yes, Collins is a low-risk on the PS right now. But it's only a "different lane" if he never gets activated. When that happens, all of those risks come back. And if Ballard makes that call...there won't be one person against it.

 

And Collins hasn't even been a good NFL player. At least Benjamin has been productive. He got traded to BUF, the current Siberia of the NFL (basically exile), where several careers have gone to die. It doesn't excuse a poor attitude (if that was truly the case)...but it adds context. And he was playing with a rookie QB who completes about half of his passes.

 

And just because a player gets released...it doesn't automatically mean he is/was bad news. For example, Inman was sitting at home until the Colts called. And Inman has quickly provided help to the team.

 

Also, BUF has been publicly adament that they are starting their youth movement and need to get snaps and rapport for the young WRs. Benjamin was not in their plans...so releasing him now lets him go elsewhere and frees up a roster spot and snaps...without having to publicly bench him. They also released Andre Holmes as well. Makese sense. 

 

I also think the fact that Benjamin, unlike Collins, can be added to the 53-man roster right away is a pro...not a con. The Colts need help at WR. And when they have guys like Grant and Rogers on the active roster...how valuable can a roster spot be? Both of those guys have seen their snaps, targets and effectiveness fade away as the season has gone on. They are being phased out of the offense. So replacing one with Benjamin is at least neutral.

 

If Benjamin is truly the unmotivated fat malcontent that people say...then he won't last very long on this team (same with Collins and his issues). But maybe he won't be. Either way, the risk is pretty much the same...and I don't think it's that high. 

 

And as of this afternoon, the best team in the AFC and #1 offense in the NFL (and Ballard's former team) were working out Benjamin. No guarantee that they sign him...but it shows that maybe he might be worth a look.

[aaron11]

2 hours ago, jskinnz said:

 

Nice play.  I can show you a good play that Mo Allie Cox made earlier this year.  You think he is one the best TE's in the game? 

 

IMO you have to go pretty deep into WR depth league wide before you get to Gordon.  Like I said - this ain't 2013.

 

Not sure what the cancer comment has to do with anything - not sure I ever claimed he was a locker room cancer.  But he is one step from being out of the league forever with a penchant getting really close to the line to not cross.  I can plainly see why teams would pass on him to not just join the team but to give up draft capital to get him.

he has more highlights than that this year, i just picked one.  he took over the game last week. his whole career has been a highlight reel when hes on the field.  he made a big play against us too

 

he may be one more drug test from being out of the league, but thats worth a 5th round pick to me.  every one thinks we need a #2 to go with ty, but if gordon came here he might actually be better

 

 

 

 

 

[Superman]

38 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

I see the other side...I just disagree with it. And it seems like a double standard to cheer on Ballard for signing Collins and then be against the idea of Benjamin.

 

-_- 

 

I don't get this. There's no reason to cheer for Ballard making a move like Collins, which hasn't helped the team to this point. But the idea that fans are rooting for the GM isn't hard to understand. 

 

Quote

Yes, Collins is a low-risk on the PS right now. But it's only a "different lane" if he never gets activated. When that happens, all of those risks come back. And if Ballard makes that call...there won't be one person against it.

 

Him being on the PS is an extended tryout. The team gets a very close look at him over a period of several weeks, and if he impresses the staff, they can activate him. Especially after Eberflus' comments this week, saying they're expecting him to show that he can do things the way they expect, if he gets called up at some point this season, it will stand to reason that he's been a valuable member of the PS. But there's still little to no risk.

 

Quote

And Collins hasn't even been a good NFL player. At least Benjamin has been productive. He got traded to BUF, the current Siberia of the NFL (basically exile), where several careers have gone to die. It doesn't excuse a poor attitude (if that was truly the case)...but it adds context. And he was playing with a rookie QB who completes about half of his passes.

 

And this is where the contrast comes in. We know KB has a bad attitude and poor work ethic (he showed up to camp visibly overweight and his coach confirmed he was 'a little heavy,' his team traded him for a third rounder (he was a first rounder with up to two years remaining on his rookie deal), he smack-talked his former QB for no reason, refused to warm up with his starting QB prior to the game, etc.)

 

It's also kind of a thing of the past that Benjamin is a good player. Sure, he's talented, but he hasn't had good production in a couple years. Sometimes players like him wind up getting back on track and having good careers. More often than not, players like him wind up out the league pretty quickly.

 

Collins, at this point, is being treated as just another guy who has to prove himself. Fans might be excited about his potential, but it's not like half the board was clamoring for the team to sign him. He wasn't even on the radar.

 

Quote

I also think the fact that Benjamin, unlike Collins, can be added to the 53-man roster right away is a pro...not a con. The Colts need help at WR. And when they have guys like Grant and Rogers on the active roster...how valuable can a roster spot be? Both of those guys have seen their snaps, targets and effectiveness fade away as the season has gone on. They are being phased out of the offense. So replacing one with Benjamin is at least neutral.

 

Collins can be added to the active roster at any time; they're choosing not to.

 

It's also interesting how much distaste there is for Grant and Rogers. Neither is a great player and they probably won't be around next year, but Rogers just had two big plays to help win a game. It's also not true that swapping either of these guys who have been with the team all season (or longer) and are well spoken of by coaches and teammates would be a neutral. Benjamin doesn't know the offense. So if we're just going to sign him and keep him on the bench because it's a neutral, why the hype to sign him?

 

Quote

If Benjamin is truly the unmotivated fat malcontent that people say...then he won't last very long on this team (same with Collins and his issues). But maybe he won't be. Either way, the risk is pretty much the same...and I don't think it's that high. 

 

I mean, Benjamin's issues are pretty well chronicled. 

 

But my issue isn't with whether he'd present a great risk. It's really with the idea that if the Colts don't seriously consider signing him, it's an inexcusable failure on their part. I don't think it's hard to see why the Colts wouldn't consider Benjamin at this point.

 

Personally, I had KB off my list even before the Bills released him. It's an easy "no" for me. If the Colts decide to take a shot at him, I think it would be a departure from their stated ideals. I would obviously hope that it works out well for the team, but I wouldn't want the team to rely on him as a major part of our offense moving forward.

[threeflight]

KC signs KB.

 

So anyone of Gordon, Cooper, Thomas and KB would have moved right into be our 2nd wr and possibly helped get us to the playoffs.

 

Instead?  We have nothing.

[crazycolt1]

9 hours ago, threeflight said:

KC signs KB.

 

So anyone of Gordon, Cooper, Thomas and KB would have moved right into be our 2nd wr and possibly helped get us to the playoffs.

 

Instead?  We have nothing.

You honestly think KB could be a #2 receiver?

[KB]

56 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

You honestly think KB could be a #2 receiver?

I could if I tried 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, KB said:

I could if I tried 

You would probably be better. The way Benji looked, he looked like a guy that had 1 too many BigMac's. 

[crazycolt1]

Once again some think every player that becomes a free agent should be signed by the Colts.

99% of the time there was a reason a player was cut when the season is still being played and it's not because he is a good player.