How long until we have a legit defense?

[Trace Pyott]

Let’s say that we draft at least 3 of our top 4 picks on defense this year how long do you guys think it will take if we really focus on building the defense in the draft and free agency in the next few years?  Do you guys think we are close or a few years and drafts away from having a defense to legit fear. Also what pieces do we need to focus on in order to build this defense?  

  I love our offense and offensive line when healthy. We shouldn’t have any trouble at all scoring 25 points every single game against most teams. It sure would be nice to have a defense that we could count on and hold teams under 15 consistently. 

[NewColtsFan]

2020 at the earliest.

 

More likely 2021.

 

Even if we devote most/all of the first two days of the upcoming draft on defense you’ve got to give those kids a year or two to play NFL quality football.   

 

We we will be better next year, no doubt.    But not quite where we want to be...

 

[Defjamz26]

To answer your 1st question, we’re  about 2 offseasons (FA and draft) away from having a legit defense. This is assuming Ballard continues his streak of good drafting, although we may have to give his draft in 2017 a pass. Ballard is intent on drafting players and not blowing loads of money in FA, so that’s one of the reasons it will take longer. It’s better for the team in the long run though.

 

To answer your other questions, there’s several pieces we need to hit on to build this defense. Top of the list is a penetrating/pass rushing 3-technique. That should be easily addressed in this upcoming draft because the expected defensive line class is deep. We should draft an UT too IMO. We need a SS because even when he’s healthy, Geathers isn’t that good and coverage is his weakness. We need 1-2 new corners. I don’t think the corners we have are zone corners at all. They all looked a lot better last year in Pagano’s press man scheme. I’d also say we need pass rush. We’ve been getting by with FAs like Sheard and Hunt, but we need to know long term that our young guys can do it. Can’t just always sign someone to do it because those guys usually cost a fortune. Maybe Turay and Lewis factor into that but it still remains to be seen if they can collectively be “the guys”.

 

Depending on current player development and how this next draft specifically goes, acquiring all of that should take another 2 off-seasons or so.

[Fluke_33]

3 hours ago, Trace Pyott said:

Let’s say that we draft at least 3 of our top 4 picks on defense this year how long do you guys think it will take if we really focus on building the defense in the draft and free agency in the next few years?  Do you guys think we are close or a few years and drafts away from having a defense to legit fear. Also what pieces do we need to focus on in order to build this defense?  

  I love our offense and offensive line when healthy. We shouldn’t have any trouble at all scoring 25 points every single game against most teams. It sure would be nice to have a defense that we could count on and hold teams under 15 consistently. 

When we find a pass rush.  If its from the upcoming draft it will be a year after that for growth.  If the pass rush from turray and Lewis make leaps next year then i think it could be as early as next year.  A pass rush improves a defense so much.

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

2020 at the earliest.

 

More likely 2021.

 

Even if we devote most/all of the first two days of the upcoming draft on defense you’ve got to give those kids a year or two to play NFL quality football.   

 

We we will be better next year, no doubt.    But not quite where we want to be...

 

I agree. I don't think we are to many pieces off. I just didn't factor in the time it will take them to develope

[MikeCurtis]

A bigger question.

 

What constitutes a "legit defense" ?

 

In my book,  a top 15 defense can be had..... by next year

 

In my book, a top 15 defense is legit enough to win the SB, with the high octane potential this offense is starting to show.

 

Not a guaranteed SB win...... but enough to give us a CHANCE.

 

At this stage......... 

 

To get to this level, 3-4 players on defense would be all it takes.

 

We are short an additional interior pass rusher, to add to rotation

 

We are short an additional pass rusher from the edge, to add to rotation

 

We are short a playmaking SS

 

We need an additional CB that can play this defense

 

IMHO, we could fill these 4 spots with 2 FAs, and 2 Rookies

 

These changes WOULD NOT make this defense, a top 5 defense.............

 

But they would be enough to improve where we are.......  

 

 

 

 

[Hoosiernsavga]

What is a good defense in the NFL today honestly? The so called best two defense's in the league this pre season were the Jags and Vikings and they have not been good. With the NFL making it a pass happy offensive, don't touch the QB,  and no aggressive coverage for DB's league. It has made a lot of really good defenses look mediocre at best. I don't think we are that far away. If we invest heavily in a pass rush in FA like Flowers or Ansah. Then get a young shut down CB and and DT high in this upcoming draft.  Add in some rotational guys and i think we could have a very solid top D next season. 

[Blueblood23]

3 hours ago, Trace Pyott said:

Let’s say that we draft at least 3 of our top 4 picks on defense this year how long do you guys think it will take if we really focus on building the defense in the draft and free agency in the next few years?  Do you guys think we are close or a few years and drafts away from having a defense to legit fear. Also what pieces do we need to focus on in order to build this defense?  

  I love our offense and offensive line when healthy. We shouldn’t have any trouble at all scoring 25 points every single game against most teams. It sure would be nice to have a defense that we could count on and hold teams under 15 consistently. 

With the rules changing holding teams under 15 points a game is not going to happen. Not sure defense is a priority of the league as it looks like they want scoring to be like it is in arena football.

[Ehrman.Dutton.Cook.Barnes]

You can get all the horses (pun intended), but unless they can be effective in a system that leverages their skills, the search for a legit D will continue. Sorry, with few exceptions  Pats & Bellichik have consistently capitalized on the talent they draft or acquire.  They draft and acquire players who fit their schemes, and that makes them better players.

[MikeCurtis]

5 minutes ago, Ehrman.Dutton.Cook.Barnes said:

You can get all the horses (pun intended), but unless they can be effective in a system that leverages their skills, the search for a legit D will continue. Sorry, with few exceptions  Pats & Bellichik have consistently capitalized on the talent they draft or acquire.  They draft and acquire players who fit their schemes, and that makes them better players.

Hey, nice name........ I was way into the "Looney Tunes" defense

 

If they would have had a MLB.......  and Bert would have stayed healthy.......... We could have had something special

[Valpo2004]

Actually statistically speaking we do have a legit defense.

 

Indy's defense is ranked 18th in total points allowed and 16th in yards per game.

 

That's about average for both categories.

[aaron11]

add a good player at all three levels and we should be ok.  its about offense now

[DougDew]

Tough question because the resources we need to use to build that defense might also have to be used to replace aging players on offense.  AC and TY are probably young enough to still play at a high level for a while, but if you're going to consider the future and not just set out to win the SB one year at the expense of the future, a LT and a #1 WR costs high draft picks.

 

And if you want OL depth, that will take resources away from the D too.

 

Just speaking on defense, we need a 3 tech or two.  Probably at least one high draft pick and the other can emerge from the current roster.

 

We need DBs.  Definitely two CBs and one S, and I'm not yet convinced we could use two Ss.  And as good as Leonard is and Walker are, one more LB is needed.

 

That's about 6 or 7 players in addition to thinking about AC and TY.

 

If you're only thinking of getting them through high picks in the draft, that's about 3 years.  But if the offense stays competent, exactly what level of legit defense do we need to win games?

[ClaytonColt]

We're probably close numerically. Nailing the addition of 3 players would make a massive difference. Unfortunately though the players that we need are probably the most difficult to source. 

 

As we drop down the draft board (happily) we're probably getting further and further away from getting those types of play makers we need and top notch Pass Rushers and CBs rarely hit the open market.

 

Even looking at the NFL Draft Order article on the NFL.com site today look how many of the teams above us need to prioritize Rushers or DBs. 

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000993169/article/2019-nfl-draft-order-team-needs-49ers-no-1-packers-in-top-12

 

We're going to have to strike again it lucky as we did with Leonard or take a risk on a player with deficiencies that we believe we can fix as the Patriots have done over the years. 

 

We definitely don't need a defense which consistently holds the opposition under 14 points but we need to be able to win in different ways and take a bit of pressure of Luck so that he doesn't need to score 30 points to win ever game.   

 

[luv_pony_express]

46 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

A bigger question.

 

What constitutes a "legit defense" ?

 

In my book,  a top 15 defense can be had..... by next year

 

In my book, a top 15 defense is legit enough to win the SB, with the high octane potential this offense is starting to show.

 

Not a guaranteed SB win...... but enough to give us a CHANCE.

 

At this stage......... 

 

To get to this level, 3-4 players on defense would be all it takes.

 

We are short an additional interior pass rusher, to add to rotation

 

We are short an additional pass rusher from the edge, to add to rotation

 

We are short a playmaking SS

 

We need an additional CB that can play this defense

 

IMHO, we could fill these 4 spots with 2 FAs, and 2 Rookies

 

These changes WOULD NOT make this defense, a top 5 defense.............

 

But they would be enough to improve where we are.......  

 

 

 

 

 

I think we're moving in the right direction, largely because of Luck's successful return and a vastly improved O-line.  But it's probably a stretch to say that we're a year away from being SB contenders.

 

As has been mentioned here, our pass rush is presently lower tier.  And it's hard to get to the upper echelon of NFL competition these days without being able to consistently pressure quarterbacks.  I'd give our secondary higher marks than that -- and I think they'll get better with experience.  And I'm not sold that we've found our Mike and Sam.

 

The good news is that we've got a lot of cap room and a GM who, thus far, seems to know what he's doing.  And, beyond that, it seems clear that Reich and Ballard are singing from the same sheet of music....which is a welcome relief after the Grigano years.

 

I'm guessing that this year's FA period will be a bountiful one.

[MikeCurtis]

I hate to post it this way...... but what constitutes a SB contender?

 

To me, if you make the playoffs, you are a "contender for the SB"

 

We have all seen wildcard teams win the SB..... we have a decent

chance to get in as the last WC

 

Will we make it to the SB, if we get in to the playoffs this year?......

 

I JUST DONT SEE IT.......

 

too many holes

 

Pittsburgh, NE, KC, and Houston field more complete teams than us....... 

(This year)

 

In 2019......

IF we have some luck in the draft again (no assurances)

IF Luck (and the team) can stay healthy.......

IF our defense can fill 3-4 Holes........ (Not insurmountable)

 

Many IFs........ no guarantees......  But i am sure not ready to take the Colts out of the running in my mind for SB in 2019.

 

THIS year, we had at least 3 games where we just needed a single play to win the game..........

 

A 9 - 2 record, would have put us with home field (except KC)

 

 

We arent that far off folks.... just an opinion 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[richard pallo]

2 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

I hate to post it this way...... but what constitutes a SB contender?

 

To me, if you make the playoffs, you are a "contender for the SB"

 

We have all seen wildcard teams win the SB..... we have a decent

chance to get in as the last WC

 

Will we make it to the SB, if we get in to the playoffs this year?...... I JUST DONT SEE IT.......

too many holes

 

Pittsburgh, NE, and Houston field more complete teams than us.......  (This year)

 

In 2019......

IF we have some luck in the draft again (no assurances)

IF Luck (and the team) can stay healthy.......

IF our defense can fill 3-4 Holes........ (Not insurmountable)

 

Many IFs........ no guarantees......  But i am sure not ready to take the Colts out of the running in my mind for SB in 2019.

 

Im not talking about being a dominant team in 2019, but one that can compete at a high level.

 

We are competing this year.  After this years FA and draft I expect our defense will be improved and better than this years team.  And our rookies this year should be even better contributors next year.  I fully expect to be SB contenders next year.  To me that's automatic now that we have a healthy Luck. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MikeCurtis]

4 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

 

I wouldnt say this year.......  but I think we will play better than people think in the playoffs

 

I AM excited about the progress made this year....... and have very high hopes for next year

[dodsworth]

1 hour ago, MikeCurtis said:

A bigger question.

 

What constitutes a "legit defense" ?

 

In my book,  a top 15 defense can be had..... by next year

 

In my book, a top 15 defense is legit enough to win the SB, with the high octane potential this offense is starting to show.

 

Not a guaranteed SB win...... but enough to give us a CHANCE.

 

At this stage......... 

 

To get to this level, 3-4 players on defense would be all it takes.

 

We are short an additional interior pass rusher, to add to rotation

 

We are short an additional pass rusher from the edge, to add to rotation

 

We are short a playmaking SS

 

We need an additional CB that can play this defense

 

IMHO, we could fill these 4 spots with 2 FAs, and 2 Rookies

 

These changes WOULD NOT make this defense, a top 5 defense.............

 

But they would be enough to improve where we are.......  

 

 

 

 

This ^ along with the injury bug

cutting us a break for once.

[ThorstenDenmark]

We are three signings in FA away from having a legit defence.

 

Bring me Demarcus Lawrance, Jadeweon Clowney and Anthony Barr and we are good to go

 

Won't happen, but just give me one of them and a CB like Darqueze Dennard or Justin Coleman and im happy

[Luck 4 president]

Defense seems like it’s starting to become a thing of the past so maybe never. But if we were to draft an elite pass rusher and CB then our defense could be in the top 10. Just look at how Khalil Mack helped the Bears. That’s the kind of player we need

[The Fish]

That side of the ball is probably 2 years away from not scaring the hell out of me (us) more than half of the time they're on the field. 

 

The D is overachieving because they don't want to let 12 down as far as I can tell, but honestly, it's not a very good unit. The secondary and outside pass rush are iffy at best.

[krunk]

I don't believe it's two years away because the D we have now is serviceable when they are not making mistakes here and there..  I believe It can be achieved by next year. I think we need to get better on the ends. We've got Turay and Lewis but I believe they still want Lewis on the interior so I could see them drafting one or two ends and kicking him inside. I still maintain Ridgeway has some value. I'm surprised at what we've done with him this year but there should be some opportunity. I feel like we'll get rid of Hunt and Autry next year.   I think we need one or two CB and a SS who can play near the LOS but also is able to make plays in the passing game.  I think we need to move on from Geathers.  I do feel good about what I've seen from Quincy and his growth.

[Flash7]

I can't imagine the Colts with a legit defense. I hope they get one, but to me, the Colts are synonymous with a great offense and a soft defense -- the way they've been for the last 20+ years.

 

My answer - Never, until I'm proven wrong.

[dodsworth]

53 minutes ago, Flash7 said:

I can't imagine the Colts with a legit defense. I hope they get one, but to me, the Colts are synonymous with a great offense and a soft defense -- the way they've been for the last 20+ years.

 

My answer - Never, until I'm proven wrong.

We have a new GM running the show

but I totally understand your thought

position. If we draft skill position with onr of our first 2 picks then you may be right. My money is on lines

or defense with those picks.

[BleedBlu8792]

56 minutes ago, krunk said:

I don't believe it's two years away because the D we have now is serviceable when they are not making mistakes here and there..  I believe It can be achieved by next year. I think we need to get better on the ends. We've got Turay and Lewis but I believe they still want Lewis on the interior so I could see them drafting one or two ends and kicking him inside. I still maintain Ridgeway has some value. I'm surprised at what we've done with him this year but there should be some opportunity. I feel like we'll get rid of Hunt and Autry next year.   I think we need one or two CB and a SS who can play near the LOS but also is able to make plays in the passing game.  I think we need to move on from Geathers.  I do feel good about what I've seen from Quincy and his growth.

This is just my opinion, but I believe Lewis is going to end up being Sheard's replacement. He's not a full time interior guy and from the way it sounds they want to use him like OSU did which was DE on early downs and 3T on obvious passing downs. I don't think I've seen him slide inside yet and he's been taking Turay's early down snaps on the outside so I believe that's where they primarily want him. 

 

Turay just needs to get NFL strength and I believe he'll be fine. He's got every athletic trait you'd want, but once he gets his strength up where he can use power to move tackles in the run game he'll be a full time starter. 

[aaron11]

7 minutes ago, dodsworth said:

We have a new GM running the show

but I totally understand your thought

position. If we draft skill position with onr of our first 2 picks then you may be right. My money is on lines

or defense with those picks.

ballard has gone bpa in the first round both times.  hooker is as far away form the line as you can get. 

 

Edge or DT could be a good pick for us, just depends on the board

 

 

[Lucky Colts Fan]

2 hours ago, DougDew said:

Tough question because the resources we need to use to build that defense might also have to be used to replace aging players on offense. 

 

But if the offense stays competent, exactly what level of legit defense do we need to win games?

 

Hopefully Andrew Luck behind the young core of our OLine is enough to attract some legit WRs and Ts in FA.  That would free up those draft picks for the defense.

 

But yeah if the offense stays competent, the defense just has to be "legit" enough.  I don't think there will be "dominant" defenses in the NFL anymore.  Look at Jax this year.

 

Ballard has preached building through the trenches, so I can see the Colts having a really good DLine within a few years, which would work wonders for this defensive scheme and make the defense legit enough.  We caught lightning in a bottle with the 2006 defense already having a legit DLine when Bob Sanders came back for the playoff run.

[dodsworth]

34 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

ballard has gone bpa in the first round both times.  hooker is as far away form the line as you can get. 

 

Edge or DT could be a good pick for us, just depends on the board

 

 

I would prefer a DT with the ability

to attract double teams but a good edge rusher would be nice also.

[smittywerb]

I'd say 2-3 years.  We have a lot of holes to fill and tbh, winning isn't helping us build that defense.  If we were picking top 10 I would say 1-2 years, but it looks like we may pick in the low 20s so that means we are more prone to miss on picks due to our draft position.  We have a lot of money to spend but the thing is we have already been told by Ballard we will be smart and frugal with our money which means minimal big time signing (unless needed) because we have focus on retaining our own talent.  If we hit on our draft which is a possibility because it's being said that this draft is deep for defense...and we have a good FA then I can see us having a 18-13 ranked defense next year.  But I would say 3 years tops.

[csmopar]

7 hours ago, Trace Pyott said:

Let’s say that we draft at least 3 of our top 4 picks on defense this year how long do you guys think it will take if we really focus on building the defense in the draft and free agency in the next few years?  Do you guys think we are close or a few years and drafts away from having a defense to legit fear. Also what pieces do we need to focus on in order to build this defense?  

  I love our offense and offensive line when healthy. We shouldn’t have any trouble at all scoring 25 points every single game against most teams. It sure would be nice to have a defense that we could count on and hold teams under 15 consistently. 

A couple years. but we're not really trending much better than the last several years.  Here's some stats for you and others. direct from NFL.com

 

Edited November 27, 2018 by csmopar
I'm not sure why this is SOOO small

[csmopar]

2 minutes ago, smittywerb said:

 I can see us having a 18-13 ranked defense next year.

we're currently ranked 17th...

[Goatface Killah]

Games arent played on paper. 

 

We are already ranked higher (20) on defense than NE, KC and the Rams. New Orleans is ranked 15th. 

 

Why does everyone act like you cant have weaknesses and win the SB? It happens every year. They arent great. But they dont need to be. They force turnovers and get enough stops we are tough to beat with Andrew Luck at QB.

[luv_pony_express]

25 minutes ago, smittywerb said:

I'd say 2-3 years.  We have a lot of holes to fill and tbh, winning isn't helping us build that defense.  If we were picking top 10 I would say 1-2 years, but it looks like we may pick in the low 20s so that means we are more prone to miss on picks due to our draft position.  We have a lot of money to spend but the thing is we have already been told by Ballard we will be smart and frugal with our money which means minimal big time signing (unless needed) because we have focus on retaining our own talent.  If we hit on our draft which is a possibility because it's being said that this draft is deep for defense...and we have a good FA then I can see us having a 18-13 ranked defense next year.  But I would say 3 years tops.

 

Draft position is overrated.

 

Compare the average draft position of the Browns and Lions for the last 20 years with the average draft position of the Pats.

 

Now compare their records over that same period.

 

So far as roster development goes, the best piece of news for the Colts is the cap space.

[cbear]

Not sure how you define legit.  In my book, we have a legit defense right now.....tbough they still make me nervous at times.  If I'm thinking elite level, and making a big assumption that Turay, Lewis, Leonard, Walker and company continue to improve, I think one more good draft and a couple FAs and we'd be there.  If those guys regress, then maybe 3 years.

[Coffeedrinker]

Well according to the Aikmann Efficiency Ratings (which I think is still the best way to determine offensive and defensive effectiveness, the Colts have the number 4 overall team, the number 4 offense (NFL rank 8) and the number 10 defense (NFL rank 17).  So that already seems pretty legit.

 

The problem with the defense is consistency and I think they will be more consistent next year.  I think some pieces need to be upgraded; as many have mentioned the Colts need a legitimate pass rush from their front four.  I think some of those players are on the roster and another year in the system will help, but more need to be acquired either through the draft or free agency.  LBers I think the Colts are set.  Leonard, Walker and Adams are turning into a dangerous threesome and there is no reason to think that all three will not be improved next year.  Then with Franklin who can back up either Mike or SAM positions they need a couple more back up players which can be found in the later rounds of the draft.

 

If the Colts are not able to update the safety position then they need to sign Mitchell to another contract.  The difference in the D when he is in the game is night and day.   I think the CBs will prove good enough if the Colts can get a pass rush, so while there is room for improvement, I don't think it's an immediate need.  

 

So in summary, I think the Colts D is much better than many , including me, anticipated, consistency needs to improve, which I think it will next year just because everyone will have so much more experience in the system.  But a cover 2 is based on pass rush and LBers... the LBers are set, IMO, pass rush needs to improve and once that happens the Colts D will be a lot more consistent and a lot more opportunistic.

[Barry Sears]

We trade for Jalen Ramsey in the off season and then we are legit next year!!  Because, if we have him, then the rest of the league is crap!  

[Scott Pennock]

Opening Day 2019.....

[richard pallo]

The edge rusher who is going to be available is David Irving of the Cowboys.  He hasn't played much this year primarily due to personal issues.  He also had an ankle injury which is why he's always on their injury report but other reports say he is ready to go health wise.  I think he is another example of a talented player with personal and maturity issues.  Eberflus knows him very well.  A change of scenery might really help him and I can see Ballard going after him if he indeed does not resign with the Cowboys. 

[smittywerb]

3 hours ago, luv_pony_express said:

 

Draft position is overrated.

 

Compare the average draft position of the Browns and Lions for the last 20 years with the average draft position of the Pats.

 

Now compare their records over that same period.

 

So far as roster development goes, the best piece of news for the Colts is the cap space.

 

Now look at who's running their front office.  Then look at ours.