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Roster Building: The Case for a 1st Rd WR is Pretty Strong


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Its allegedly a fabulous defensive draft, even if the Colts don't draft an inside pass rusher. Take a DE; a CB; a S. Or take one of the remaining DTs. All are needed badly. I do agree with the need fo

See , I think people are looking at this wrong.  1) The rule changes have made it easier for lesser talents to become productive more than ever. It used to be that you needed an elite skill positio

The colts need a WR but not in the 1st round.

I think a wr will definitively be selected at some point but if anything Ballard has shown us is he values the LOS...whether defense or offense we have put a premium on winning up front and I think we will continue to follow that model...

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It all depends which prospects are available at which pick. We do need a WR who can step in and play, but its hard to say what pick that will be because you can't force it. That's just the nature of the draft. If I had to guess, I'd say either in round 1 or 2 we may take one. But it's impossible to know. 

 

I think BPA is a better approach. 

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I think as I saw frequently thoughout the game that Cornerback is a bigger need than anything, even in our current scheme. Our corners were constantly getting beat. The only thing holding Tannehill back from tearing them to shreds was that we applied pressure often

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I would advocate looking towards free agency for another wide receiver.

 

We are pretty good offensively are ready despite the hole at WR 2.  So we really don't need a superstar at wide receiver just somebody to take some of the pressure off TY.

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I have a question for you guys.  With the way Luck is pin pointing his back shoulder throws, what do you guys think about us making a run at Kelvin Benjamin next offseason on a team friendly deal?  No way he can command top dollar.  We should be able to get him on a cheap prove it deal.  Or is his work ethic & character questions too much of a concern?

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21 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

I have a question for you guys.  With the way Luck is pin pointing his back shoulder throws, what do you guys think about us making a run at Kelvin Benjamin next offseason on a team friendly deal?  No way he can command top dollar.  We should be able to get him on a cheap prove it deal.  Or is his work ethic & character questions too much of a concern?

I believe Amari Cooper is going to be a FA.  The Cowboys can only franchise one player.  That should be Lawrence.  I would expect he would explore all options before re signing with Dallas. 

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26 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I believe Amari Cooper is going to be a FA.  The Cowboys can only franchise one player.  That should be Lawrence.  I would expect he would explore all options before re signing with Dallas. 

Cooper has a team option year after this year, which I’m sure Jerry is gonna exercise.  And the way he balled out on Thanksgiving, Jerry ain’t letting him walk.  Lawrence goes first.  And the Colts should be interested in Lawrence.  I just don’t know at what price.  I’d have to look deeper into his production before I’d break the bank.

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A WR needs to be drafted...but not in the first. 2nd round for sure. Round 3 at the latest. It’s all about offensive scheme fit. We need a receiver that can work the intermediate routes and make some nice sideline catches on the out routes. Round 2 has guys like AJ Brown and JJAW. There’s no need to draft a receiver in the 1st.

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8 hours ago, Smoke317 said:

Cooper has a team option year after this year, which I’m sure Jerry is gonna exercise.  And the way he balled out on Thanksgiving, Jerry ain’t letting him walk.  Lawrence goes first.  And the Colts should be interested in Lawrence.  I just don’t know at what price.  I’d have to look deeper into his production before I’d break the bank.

If Lawrence gets free you can bet he's going to get paid and we should be the team to pay him. 

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9 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

Yeah,   that Grigson guy sucked

It sounds like the same scouts have been employed by the Colts for many years.  At least that's what I read in the 2017 Ballard draft thread.

 

But a 1st rounder for a WR makes much less sense now than it did a few years ago.  Scheme and pattern variety helps the receivers, like Ebron, to get separation and do better than their talent would suggest.

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23 hours ago, ztboiler said:

Topically this is more about the current team and roster building than specific player drafting....so I'll put it here, but mods please move as you see fit.

 

As much as we all want the 3T of the future out of this upcoming draft, there is a good chance drafting in the 20's doesn't yield that kind of player.  Inside pass rush is trading at an all-time high right now, and for good reason.  Despite the volume of DL projected to be worth high picks in 2019, its unlikely that a disruptive inside rusher with 1st round measurables is still available in the 20's.

 

Amidst our offensive Renaissance, we've patched a gaping hole at WR respectably...but a significant hole remains and no good roster building strategy would leave it unaddressed with significant resources.   Stock piling talent on defense is still priority 1 in my book, but if a BPA outside WR is available at our 1st Rd. pick its the right time to pull the trigger.  It would be a shame to have another early to mid-season slump next year with patchwork WR play as a factor amidst the prime years of our franchise QB.  

I don't believe they will take one in the 1st round.  They want to spread the ball around to everyone and use a bevvy of athletic tight ends.  I think they are very comfortable with taking mid and lower round WR and developing them for this system.  I think guys like Cain, Fountain, Ishmael and maybe even Marcus Johnson are the types they are looking for. I believe if they do take another WR or two it'll be mid to lower rounds again.  Guys that had pretty good draft grades but fell in the draft for whatever reason.

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8 minutes ago, DougDew said:

It sounds like the same scouts have been employed by the Colts for many years.  At least that's what I read in the 2017 Ballard draft thread.

 

But a 1st rounder for a WR makes much less sense now than it did a few years ago.  Scheme and pattern variety helps the receivers, like Ebron, to get separation and do better than their talent would suggest.

ebron is very talented 

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11 minutes ago, DougDew said:

It sounds like the same scouts have been employed by the Colts for many years.  At least that's what I read in the 2017 Ballard draft thread.

 

But a 1st rounder for a WR makes much less sense now than it did a few years ago.  Scheme and pattern variety helps the receivers, like Ebron, to get separation and do better than their talent would suggest.

I have to agree with this. I'd still like the 1st to be used on defense, specifically someone who can wreck the line and get to the QB. 

 

I wonder how Dorsett would do with the new offense compared to his time under Chud's... 

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Inman continues to look good and seems to have a real chemistry with Luck, given his short time with the team.  Don't want to forget Cain will hopefully be back next season.  Not saying we don't need another quality WR, but with Inman and Cain, plus the excellent TE's, i don't think a round 1 WR is needed.

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14 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

ebron is very talented 

Please accurately read what I said.  I'll say it backwards and about Chud's offense and maybe you'll see.

 

"Talent helps receivers, like Ebron, get open rather than scheme and pattern variety enhancing their ability."

 

I'm not opining on his level of talent, or if he gets open more than others.  I'm opining on the impact the scheme has on receivers, and I'm saying Ebron saying is a receiver. 

 

I didn't say, "talented receivers like Ebron".  There's a difference.

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21 hours ago, Orioles22 said:

I'd try to sign Golden Tate, as someone mentioned - that would give us five pretty good receivers if Cain works out after the injury.

I'd go with two corners and an outside linebacker opposite Leonard with the first three picks.

I haven't followed Tate for awhile but he was an amazing soeacial teams players also. I would be all for Tate. 

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17 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

I have to agree with this. I'd still like the 1st to be used on defense, specifically someone who can wreck the line and get to the QB. 

 

I wonder how Dorsett would do with the new offense compared to his time under Chud's... 

Its hard to say, but he's had several years to make a difference and hasn't. 

 

I think his talent was speed, which wasn't good enough for Chud's offense. 

 

I think the Pats offense, and ours, is more about pattern precision and YAC wiggle, two things that Dorsett was never really known for at any point in his career.

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23 hours ago, coltfaninnewyork said:

First round not likely ,isn't it a weak wr class ?

No, it's actually shaping up to be one of the better classes in the past couple of years with a few "true #1" WRs - N'Keal Harry, AJ Brown, and some think Anthony Johnson, or Kelvin Harmon could fit into that conversation.  We'll obviously know more come March, but it's not looking was weak as the last couple of years to say the least.

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I have always been a proponent of a WR on Day 2 in the draft and that has not changed one iota throughout this year. I do feel we could land a very good WR on Day 2 in the upcoming draft to contribute. If we gain a fourth pick on Day 2 (we have 3 picks now), I can see both a WR and RB on Day 2, to be honest along with DL and OL help.

 

Let us assume we have 5 picks for Day 1 and Day 2.

 

Day 1 - DL help

 

Day 2 - if we have 4 picks - DL and OL help plus WR and RB help, in no certain order. :) 

 

That would be an ideal scenario.

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21 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Please accurately read what I said.  I'll say it backwards and about Chud's offense and maybe you'll see.

 

"Talent helps receivers, like Ebron, get open rather than scheme and pattern variety enhancing their ability."

 

I'm not opining on his level of talent, or if he gets open more than others.  I'm opining on the impact the scheme has on receivers, and I'm saying Ebron saying is a receiver. 

 

I didn't say, "talented receivers like Ebron".  There's a difference.

you said Scheme and pattern variety helps the receivers, like Ebron, to get separation and do better than their talent would suggest.

 

hes really talented in the first place though.  no need for back handed compliments like that

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On 11/25/2018 at 9:26 AM, ztboiler said:

Topically this is more about the current team and roster building than specific player drafting....so I'll put it here, but mods please move as you see fit.

 

As much as we all want the 3T of the future out of this upcoming draft, there is a good chance drafting in the 20's doesn't yield that kind of player.  Inside pass rush is trading at an all-time high right now, and for good reason.  Despite the volume of DL projected to be worth high picks in 2019, its unlikely that a disruptive inside rusher with 1st round measurables is still available in the 20's.

 

Amidst our offensive Renaissance, we've patched a gaping hole at WR respectably...but a significant hole remains and no good roster building strategy would leave it unaddressed with significant resources.   Stock piling talent on defense is still priority 1 in my book, but if a BPA outside WR is available at our 1st Rd. pick its the right time to pull the trigger.  It would be a shame to have another early to mid-season slump next year with patchwork WR play as a factor amidst the prime years of our franchise QB.  

You know as well as anyone the answer is that we'll just wait and see how the draft board falls come draft day.  I think the only answer I wouldn't prefer is to trade up to nab a #1 WR.  If for no reason other than, they are just one of the most shaky draft positions developmentally speaking, spending more resources to acquire something that fails at a higher rate than most other positions is a tough sell for me.

 

That being said, I'm not against drafting a WR in the first round.  I mean if we drafted an OG 6th overall, I doubt Ballard's draft philosophy would exclude a WR in the first round.  It'd be a huge bump in talent, to be sure, and it looks like there will be plenty of big body type receivers in this next class that would be a nice compliment to Hilton

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Usually I'd be adamantly against this idea and preach taking the defenders in this class. However, to me it just depends how late in the 1st we're drafting and how many defensive players come off the board before us. I might take the WR2 over DL7 or CB5. Offenses have taken the reigns even moreso this year and if there's a receiver that can take us from good/dangerous to great/lethal, I don't think I'd be too upset about it.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

 

 

That being said, I'm not against drafting a WR in the first round.  I mean if we drafted an OG 6th overall, I doubt Ballard's draft philosophy would exclude a WR in the first round.  It'd be a huge bump in talent, to be sure, and it looks like there will be plenty of big body type receivers in this next class that would be a nice compliment to Hilton

this is a really good point.  if a guard is on the table that high then a WR or pretty much anything could be as well

 

i think he looks at bpa first, and then applies some common sense based on team need

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11 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

you said Scheme and pattern variety helps the receivers, like Ebron, to get separation and do better than their talent would suggest.

 

hes really talented in the first place though 

Yeah.  Scheme and pattern helps TY get open more than his talent would suggest.  

 

The expression, "a rising tide lifts all boats" is not criticizing the quality of any boat.

 

In the context of the thread, it implies that a highly talented receiver isn't needed.

 

I contend that the old scheme required more talent.  With that thought, Ebron would be much better at Fleener's job than Fleener. (and Fleener was a receiver, not really a TE, that was DA)

 

Does that satisfy you?

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7 minutes ago, CheezyColt said:

Usually I'd be adamantly against this idea and preach taking the defenders in this class. However, to me it just depends how late in the 1st we're drafting and how many defensive players come off the board before us. I might take the WR2 over DL7 or CB5. Offenses have taken the reigns even moreso this year and if there's a receiver that can take us from good/dangerous to great/lethal, I don't think I'd be too upset about it.

 

 

Good point.

 

I brought up Ebron in this thread because its obvious that he goes into pattern a lot and he's being treated almost as WR#2, even though he lines up differently than a traditional receiver.

 

If you're confident that defenses won't eventually counter Ebron, we don't need a highly talented true #2 WR.  If they do eventually get to him, then the need for a different #2 goes up, IMO.

 

If we drafted a WR with the first round, will he be getting the ball so much that it would take opportunities  away from Ebron?   If so, that results in a lot of pushes and doesn't really advance the overall offense up to lethal that much.

 

I think we definitely need more talent at WR.  I'm just not sure how much more given the needs on the D.

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23 hours ago, Luck12-to-Hilton13 said:

If Cain can bounce back quickly from that ACL. I like my chances with Ty Hilton, Dontrell Inman, and Deon Cain as our top three WRs going into next season. Also with the way we utilize our TEs, defense is a MUST right now.

I think people are underestimating the impact of the two PS receivers we have in Fountain and Ishmael. They've got the talent and size. I think we don't need to focus on another WR in the draft.

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