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Aaron Rodgers


Lucky Colts Fan

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2 minutes ago, Trueman said:

I got news for ya , neither are the guys you mentioned.

 

What?  I'd be interested to see your ranking of the greatest leaders at the QB position.  I never saw Unitas or Baugh, but I did see Manning, Brady, Brees, and some later Montana and they were/are better leaders than Rodgers is, IMO.

 

7 minutes ago, Trueman said:

Look at how Rodgers has carried that franchise from Day 1. Look at the rosters , look at the coaching , look at the playoff games that people love to define a QB's actual ability from. 

Or, you can take away all the noise , and just evaluate who plays the position of Quarterback the best. You can study the tape and witness just how absurdly good Rodgers is.

 

Again, nobody is saying Rodgers isn't uber-talented and one of the best ever at playing QB.

 

You're arguing a different argument.  Go back and read my OP, it's about his ATTITUDE, which you haven't mentioned once.

 

I just enjoy seeing him get humbled once in a while because I think he needs it.

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Just now, Lucky Colts Fan said:

What?  I'd be interested to see your ranking of the greatest leaders at the QB position.  I never saw Unitas or Baugh, but I did see Manning, Brady, Brees, and some later Montana and they were/are better leaders than Rodgers is, IMO.


Brees for sure. 

Montana and Rodgers actually have pretty similar disposition. Montana was just playing for a legendary coach in a legendary program. You give Rodgers that coach , and that team , and I'm sure people wouldn't be complaining about his lack of leadership.

Brady , probably yes. But the real leader of that team has always been Belichick , and again, they've always had the best coaching (and sometimes roster) in the league. You give Rodgers those things , and again, I doubt people would talk about his leadership.

Environment matters so , so much. Part of the reason Rodger's leadership gets questioned is because McCarthey has been terrible for at least a few years , the play-calling is bland/unimaginative , and the rosters have been sub-par for a QB of his quality. 

You put Brady in that situation , and of course he'd be * off/unenthusiastic . Rodgers is smarter than the guy he plays for. Brady isn't.
 

6 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

You're arguing a different argument.  Go back and read my OP, it's about his ATTITUDE, which you haven't mentioned once.


I'm not arguing anything. You said Rodger's leadership is what holds him back from being considered amongst the best , and I'm telling you : a) leadership is typically falsely defined by winning , and b) you put those QB's in his shoes , and 100% their "leadership" would be questioned

His attitude is Cali-cool , and he's extremely self-confident ... but so are those others guys , they just either hide it better , or don't have to deal with total ineptitude around them.

Could he be a better leader ? Definitely.

Is that holding him back from being amongst the greats? Hell no.


 

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On ‎11‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 11:19 PM, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

It's practically impossible to compare players from different era's. He's

Definitely Top 10. And fans smarter than me and more articulate can make a  case he's Best of All Time.

Popularity does not make for the best of all time.  Sorry you cant tell the difference between being talented and leadership.

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17 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

What?  I'd be interested to see your ranking of the greatest leaders at the QB position.  I never saw Unitas or Baugh, but I did see Manning, Brady, Brees, and some later Montana and they were/are better leaders than Rodgers is, IMO.

 

 

Again, nobody is saying Rodgers isn't uber-talented and one of the best ever at playing QB.

 

You're arguing a different argument.  Go back and read my OP, it's about his ATTITUDE, which you haven't mentioned once.

 

I just enjoy seeing him get humbled once in a while because I think he needs it.

When ranking players, it really just boils down to what people put more emphasis on. Talent is a huge part of it and how a player can carry a team but there have been several players that can carry teams and have been real talented but have won multiple Championships. Leadership is a huge factor for me and one of the reasons why I rank players like Peyton and Magic ahead of almost everyone in their respective sports

 

-If the only thing basing a GOAT on was talent, then Bo Jackson would be the greatest Football player that ever lived period. He is not even in the Top 10 RB's when you factor everything else in though.

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2 minutes ago, Trueman said:

Brees for sure. 

Montana and Rodgers actually have pretty similar disposition. Montana was just playing for a legendary coach in a legendary program. You give Rodgers that coach , and that team , and I'm sure people wouldn't be complaining about his lack of leadership.

Brady , probably yes. But the real leader of that team has always been Belichick , and again, they've always had the best coaching (and sometimes roster) in the league. You give Rodgers those things , and again, I doubt people would talk about his leadership.

Environment matters so , so much. Part of the reason Rodger's leadership gets questioned is because McCarthey has been terrible for at least a few years , the play-calling is bland/unimaginative , and the rosters have been sub-par for a QB of his quality. 

You put Brady in that situation , and of course he'd be * off/unenthusiastic . Rodgers is smarter than the guy he plays for. Brady isn't.

I'm not arguing anything. You said Rodger's leadership is what holds him back from being considered amongst the best , and I'm telling you : a) leadership is typically falsely defined by winning , and b) you put those QB's in his shoes , and 100% their "leadership" would be questioned

His attitude is Cali-cool , and he's extremely self-confident ... but so are those others guys , they just either hide it better , or don't have to deal with total ineptitude around them.

Could he be a better leader ? Definitely.

Is that holding him back from being amongst the greats? Hell no.

 

Fair enough.  I think you're making a few assumptions/excuses, but fair enough.

 

If the only knock on the guy is a lack of humility that hurts his leadership, it's not that big of a deal.  He's still an amazing QB, but it's hard to put him above guys that "appear" to be better leaders.

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Like... how could someone watch week 1 , when Rodgers' leg gets totally messed up, he goes off in a stretcher,  the Packers get demolished when he's out of the game , he comes back probably at like 30% of his capability and can barely move , and wins the game for them making ridiculous throw , after ridiculous throw. 

How in any world is that not leadership?

"Cutler with wins" ....give me mercy.

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5 minutes ago, Trueman said:

Like... how could someone watch week 1 , when Rodger's leg gets totally messed up, he goes off in a stretcher,  the Packers get demolished when he's out of the game , he comes back probably at like 30% of his capability and can barely move , and wins the game for them making ridiculous throw , after ridiculous throw. 

How in any world is that not leadership?

"Cutler with wins" Give me mercy.

I think Rodgers is a Good leader FWIW but I have seen a few better. I seen the Post you were referring too as well, I don't agree with that at all. 

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9 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I think Rodgers is a Good leader FWIW but I have seen a few better. I seen the Post you were referring too as well, I don't agree with that at all. 


He just rubs people the wrong way because of how outwardly confident he is. People think he's too cocky and smug. I got news for people , Peyton was pretty damn cocky and smug at times too, he just hid it better. Same with Brady. Read those emails that got leaked of his  that were part of the deflate-gate trial , when he totally trashes Peyton and talks smack about the rest of the league.

Cocky becomes a problem when it's someone like Cam Newton. That's a guy who makes it about himself wayyyy too much , is clearly seeking attention , and I think it hurts his team sometimes.

Rodgers simply hasn't had the help that the other guys on that list had. That's the only reason he hasn't won as much. He can do everything that those guys can , and to be honest , he can do things they can't. 

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7 minutes ago, Trueman said:

He just rubs people the wrong way because of how outwardly confident he is.

 

Yes.  That was the whole point of this thread in the first place!  geez... we took a left turn somewhere, maybe that Jay Cutler post...

 

If he just shows more humility (ie hides it better, like Manning) then he'll be in the conversation for GOAT without any critics.

 

You have to be extremely confident to be successful in life, but you have to show humility when you're a public figure.

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9 minutes ago, Trueman said:


He just rubs people the wrong way because of how outwardly confident he is. People think he's too cocky and smug. I got news for people , Peyton was pretty damn cocky and smug at times too, he just hid it better. Same with Brady. Read those emails that got leaked of his  that were part of the deflate-gate trial , when he totally trashes Peyton and talks smack about the rest of the league.

Cocky becomes a problem when it's someone like Cam Newton. That's a guy who makes it about himself wayyyy too much , is clearly seeking attention , and I think it hurts his team sometimes.

Rodgers simply hasn't had the help that the other guys on that list had. That's the only reason he hasn't won as much. He can do everything that those guys can , and to be honest , he can do things they can't. 

He would be hard to pass up I have to admit if you wanted to start a Franchise today. Brees as well, Brees is having an unreal season, Brees will win his 1st MVP this season and he should. If someone had both in their Top 10 QB's of all-time I could see it and really wouldn't argue it. My Top 3 personally still stands at Brady, Montana, and Peyton and that is just based on by my eye test and how those guys have led, winning does factor in as well along with winning League MVP's too. League MVP's is an individual award and Peyton has 5, Brady 3, Montana 2. To Rodgers credit, he does have 2. I always thought Steve Young was sensational myself and he got overlooked alot. He won 2 League MVP's and a SB as a starter in 1994. He would've won multiple SB's had it not been for Dallas in the early 90's. He could do it all, run like a RB and pass with extreme accuracy and he also had Great Leadership. To fill Montana's shoes was rough.

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I think assigning wins to Quarterbacks is one the dumbest statistics out there. 

It completely disregards just how much a team sport football really is. Hell, the QB isn't even out there half the time.

It's almost as stupid as the rings argument. 

 

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Some are confusing leadership with being a 'good soldgier'. Some players won't question a coach's decisions, playcalling etc... Or ever tell/yell at a teammate that they messed up.

 

Thats not Rogers. Rogers wants to win Super Bowls! And he's surrounded by incompetent coaches and less talented rosters than other teams. He knows how good he is. He's arrogant and it FRUSTRATES HIM that he's in a situation where he is handcuffed from multiple Super Bowls because he's basically a one man team. 

 

Like Peyton, who was afraid his legacy would only show 1 SB championship and that would tarnish his legacy. Rogers too, wants multiple Rings for his legacy. And thats hard to get with a second rate organization and coach. That's why he speaks out because he is a uber talented leader but only has fools at his side to lead. 

 

He will force change at the top because that's what a leader does to get the prize that packer fans are waitting for. 

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Just now, Trueman said:

I think assigning wins to Quarterbacks is one the dumbest statistics out there. 

It completely disregards just how much a team sport football really is. Hell, the QB isn't even out there half the time.



 

It is truly a team sport, having said that what % would you give Peyton for our wins throughout his career?

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9 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

It is truly a team sport, having said that what % would you give Peyton for our wins throughout his career?


Peyton would get an extremely high % for sure. Probably the highest % of anyone all-time. Without him , the whole thing would fall apart , because that's how Polian built the team.

But it's still a ridiculous stat. 

If Peyton throws for 400 yards 3TD's and wins he gets a win on his record.

If Dilfer throws for 85 yards 2 INT's and wins , he gets a win on his record.

Any stat that allows that much variance to come to the same conclusion , is a horrendously stupid statistic.

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What it's done is essentially taken nuance out of the game. 

It's telling you that a Quarterback that loses a game cannot be considered to have played better than the Quarterback that won the game. 

When in reality , we all know that's just not true. You can lose a game , and still outplay the opposing QB.

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On ‎11‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 5:38 AM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Since this is an Aaron Rodgers topic. How many in here think he is a Top 10 QB of all-time?

 

-You have QB's like:

Brady, Montana, Peyton, Unitas, Graham, Elway, Favre, Marino, Staubach, S.Young, Bradshaw, Aikman, - that is 12 right there. Is Brees Top 10?

 

Brees and Rodgers are better than Favre and Aikman.

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12 minutes ago, Finball said:

 

Brees and Rodgers are better than Favre and Aikman.

Favre and Aikman played in an era when QBs were not protected.  Saying they were better is not seeing the whole picture or hearing the whole story.

Aikman and Kelly were pounded into the ground and out of the league.

This who was better than the other is nothing but opinion.

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18 hours ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

Some are confusing leadership with being a 'good soldgier'. Some players won't question a coach's decisions, playcalling etc... Or ever tell/yell at a teammate that they messed up.

 

Thats not Rogers. Rogers wants to win Super Bowls! And he's surrounded by incompetent coaches and less talented rosters than other teams. He knows how good he is. He's arrogant and it FRUSTRATES HIM that he's in a situation where he is handcuffed from multiple Super Bowls because he's basically a one man team. 

 

Like Peyton, who was afraid his legacy would only show 1 SB championship and that would tarnish his legacy. Rogers too, wants multiple Rings for his legacy. And thats hard to get with a second rate organization and coach. That's why he speaks out because he is a uber talented leader but only has fools at his side to lead. 

 

He will force change at the top because that's what a leader does to get the prize that packer fans are waitting for. 

That's right, he does. And his pouting tells everyone so.

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39 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Favre and Aikman played in an era when QBs were not protected.  Saying they were better is not seeing the whole picture or hearing the whole story.

Aikman and Kelly were pounded into the ground and out of the league.

This who was better than the other is nothing but opinion.

 

That applies for other QBs in their era too and I'm comparing Favre and Aikman to their peers in their era... with a bit of a cavet that Brees and Rodgers had/have tougher comp as they have to compete against Brees and Peyton. Prime Aikman also had the best offensive line of his era, possibly ever.

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9 hours ago, Finball said:

 

That applies for other QBs in their era too and I'm comparing Favre and Aikman to their peers in their era... with a bit of a cavet that Brees and Rodgers had/have tougher comp as they have to compete against Brees and Peyton. Prime Aikman also had the best offensive line of his era, possibly ever.

Aikman had the best run blocking offensive line, not pass blocking. Aikman was one of the most hit QBs in history. His concussion rate was off the charts. That is what ended his career.

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Even the people who acknowledge eras changing still don't seem to get it. The 90s weren't that long ago, but they have more in common than the leather helmet days than they do right now. The mere year before this era began saw a quarterback get smashed worse than any quarterback had been in a long time. Of course I'm talking about the 2009 NFCCG where the midget everybody worships now won his lil ring after he stayed benched and hurt in years past. And the 1 year he made it to the NFCCG before against a good defense we all remember what happened. 

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Why do people  tout Brady so much higher than Aikman, Bradshaw and Bart Starr (dynasty QBs) and on the same level as Montana?  Those teams had great rosters with extra special coaches.  There is a reason why Brady was a 6th round pick talent wise.  BB just needed a QB who would Be obedient if not even subservient To his diabolical scheming s And not take matters into his own hands like Manning would.  Brady only gets recognition because of the wins and that is a team stat and not a QB stat. 

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On 11/16/2018 at 6:59 AM, Lucky Colts Fan said:

First of all, I love watching Aaron Rodgers play the game.  He is an amazing QB that makes unbelievable throws on an almost weekly basis.  One of the best to ever do it.

 

But the defender in me loves seeing him get humbled like the Seahawks did last night.  Maybe it's the fist-pumping and discount double-checks he does after a good play, or how he carries himself a lot of the time, or how he publicly throws people under the bus when they lose, but he comes across as arrogant and over-confident.  Almost smug.  He and his pass-catchers will make a crazy backyard-football play when he has to scramble from the pocket, and then the next play they mess up a routine short throw and he loses his cool.

 

I like the Packers and Aaron Rodgers, but I get sick satisfaction watching him lose and pout about it.  Am I the only one?

He’s been a great QB, but no.... you’re not the only one.

 

And who can forget him on Draft Day... smoldering over the “audacity” of 20 some odd GMs passing on him before.... Alas!!....the Packers finally ended his trial of desperation, his life of darkness, woe and torment! :bored:

 

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