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Eric Ebron was an amazing signing by Ballard


RockThatBlue

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58 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Not sure if you have an axe to grind so your mind creates this so called moving target view, but here's what I said.

 

Meh.  Tall fast guys who can play receiver from the TE position aren't that rare.  Even PS quality guys like Cox and Swoope can do it.

 

Where does that say "there is no difference".

 

What I did not do....out of brevity.....was to explain why I thought that PS quality guys could also do it.  (Please note that "also do it", doesn't mean "as well as" but is closer to the more complex meaning of "good enough to an acceptable level to where the incremental drop in quality has little impact on the W-L record"). Which is because Reich's offense thrives on that position, and Luck is a great QB when healthy and in the right offense.

 

The rest are just stupid comments to downshift into dopey fantasy football stats quoting.

 

 

Your posts definitely get more funny and farther reaching.  Why would I have an axe to grind?  But here are some examples of your moving target.  Outside of the moving target I already pointed out.

 

Quote

he tall fast guy who plays with Reich and Luck.  That guy is comparable.

 

So that is your narrow comparison, yet to another post you say this

 

Quote

What are you talking about?  Big receivers who score 11 tds in 9 games from the TE position?  Is that the narrow criteria you're using?

 

That seems to be a better narrow criteria than what you want to base it on.  

 

Then in this post, you want to change and twist the meaning of "also do it" to fit your moving target.

 

Lastly, please show many any comments I made that are, "downshift into dopey fantasy football stats quoting."

 

I will just end this with, it is so nice that the Colts finally have a GM that is good at his job.  We, as fans, have not seen that since 2009.  Instead we had to deal with a GM who could not live up to his family name in Polian, followed by a complete train wreck of a GM in Grigson.  It's so nice to see the Colts on the right track again.

 

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4 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Your posts definitely get more funny and farther reaching.  Why would I have an axe to grind?  But here are some examples of your moving target.  Outside of the moving target I already pointed out.

 

 

So that is your narrow comparison, yet to another post you say this

 

 

That seems to be a better narrow criteria than what you want to base it on.  

 

Then in this post, you want to change and twist the meaning of "also do it" to fit your moving target.

 

Lastly, please show many any comments I made that are, "downshift into dopey fantasy football stats quoting."

 

I will just end this with, it is so nice that the Colts finally have a GM that is good at his job.  We, as fans, have not seen that since 2009.  Instead we had to deal with a GM who could not live up to his family name in Polian, followed by a complete train wreck of a GM in Grigson.  It's so nice to see the Colts on the right track again.

 

Grigson almost ruined Luck, it was close. Ballard and Reich have saved his career and he looks better than ever now. Mr Irsay hired the right people now and it's clear to me. Grigson was a huge problem, his drafts from 2013-2016 were flat out putrid except for the Kelly pick. He won GM of the Year in 2012 but many could've by drafting Andrew Luck. Thank God he did take Luck over RG3 at least but Irsay wanted Luck so drafting Luck was happening no matter what.

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6 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

He won GM of the Year in 2012 but many could've by drafting Andrew Luck. Thank God he did take Luck over RG3 at least but Irsay wanted Luck so drafting Luck was happening no matter what.

It really wasn't as close as some tried to make it.   The Luck/RG3 decision.   Everyone knew Luck was the better choice.   Several teams offered us a hoard of draft picks for the "Luck" pick.   Not so much for the RG3 pick.  

 

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Even more valuable considering our rather pedestrian wr Corp.  Seems to have overcome his dropsies as well.  Until a third wr receiver (or even second lol), shows up, keep plying the 2-3 te set!  Heck, when swoope gets back, go with a 4 te set!  

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21 minutes ago, Myles said:

It really wasn't as close as some tried to make it.   The Luck/RG3 decision.   Everyone knew Luck was the better choice.   Several teams offered us a hoard of draft picks for the "Luck" pick.   Not so much for the RG3 pick.  

 

 

I remember the board during that time.  People were split down the middle.  So much back and forth.  45% wanted luck, 45% wanted to trade back and get RG3 and get more picks, the remaining 10% wanted to trade back altogether and build a team around Peyton for a SB run.

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1 hour ago, crazycolt1 said:

What does it matter?  You are throwing what ifs when we are dealing with facts.

If you're talking about the number of TDs any one receiver gets, how does it NOT matter what the quality of your other receivers are?   Or who the QB is, or how much the offensive schemer values a big fast guy at the TE position?

 

Why does Ebron suck in Detroit but is amazing here?  Why does Doyle have nice stats in previous years but gets few touches now?

 

What facts are you using to claim he's amazing, becauuse I haven't read any that support it.

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11 minutes ago, cbear said:

Even more valuable considering our rather pedestrian wr Corp.  Seems to have overcome his dropsies as well.  Until a third wr receiver (or even second lol), shows up, keep plying the 2-3 te set!  Heck, when swoope gets back, go with a 4 te set!  

I know Ebron is listed as a TE but he has the athletic ability to be considered both a TE and a WR. That move he made on his first TD catch and run was a thing of beauty. Not all TEs with his size has the talent to do what he did on that play.

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2 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I know Ebron is listed as a TE but he has the athletic ability to be considered both a TE and a WR. That move he made on his first TD catch and run was a thing of beauty. Not all TEs with his size has the talent to do what he did on that play.

Some might say it was amazing.  :D

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1 minute ago, DougDew said:

If you're talking about the number of TDs any one receiver gets, how does it NOT matter what the quality of your other receivers are?   Or who the QB is, or how much the offensive schemer values a big fast guy at the TE position?

 

Why does Ebron suck in Detroit but is amazing here?  Why does Doyle have nice stats in previous years but gets few touches now?

 

What facts are you using to claim he's amazing, becauuse I haven't read any that support it.

The facts are he is 2nd in the league in TD catches.

His first TD catch and run yesterday was amazing no matter what you think.

 It makes no difference what other receivers are doing or not doing because he is doing it.

Once again you are diverting to argue.

 

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1 hour ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Your posts definitely get more funny and farther reaching.  Why would I have an axe to grind?  But here are some examples of your moving target.  Outside of the moving target I already pointed out.

 

 

So that is your narrow comparison, yet to another post you say this

 

 

That seems to be a better narrow criteria than what you want to base it on.  

 

Then in this post, you want to change and twist the meaning of "also do it" to fit your moving target.

 

Lastly, please show many any comments I made that are, "downshift into dopey fantasy football stats quoting."

 

I will just end this with, it is so nice that the Colts finally have a GM that is good at his job.  We, as fans, have not seen that since 2009.  Instead we had to deal with a GM who could not live up to his family name in Polian, followed by a complete train wreck of a GM in Grigson.  It's so nice to see the Colts on the right track again.

 

If you have comprehended this thread, the notion that Ebron was an amazing signing has been pretty much taken as a statement of fact, without anyone offering a shred of support other than some fantasy football stats.  

 

I simply said meh, and offered various data inputs that should be considered before making that claim, like what QB he is playing with and what the philosophy of the HC is. And given those variables, what would the offense look like if Ebron was replaced by any other tall fast guy in the absence of any other competent option to throw to outside of TY.  Is Ebron's production the product of his amazingness, or the utter lack of talent at other positions?

 

Nothing I've said contradicts or moves off of those points.

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4 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

The facts are he is 2nd in the league in TD catches.

His first TD catch and run yesterday was amazing no matter what you think.

 It makes no difference what other receivers are doing or not doing because he is doing it.

Once again you are diverting to argue.

 

His first TD catch definitely showed he was fast, which I said the guy who has his responsibilities in this offense needs to be, in addition to being tall. 

 

His last TD catch looked like one of the three TD catches Dwayne Allen had during that Jets game.

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4 minutes ago, DougDew said:

If you have comprehended this thread, the notion that Ebron was an amazing signing has been pretty much taken as a statement of fact, without anyone offering a shred of support other than some fantasy football stats.  

 

 

Actually, his TD's were in the REAL game of football.   Not fantasy.  

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1 minute ago, DougDew said:

His first TD catch definitely showed he was fast, which I said the guy who has his responsibilities in this offense needs to be, in addition to being tall. 

 

His last TD catch looked like one of the three TD catches Dwayne Allen had during that Jets game.

Allen has exactly zero to do with anything. He is no longer a Colt player.

You sure go out of your way to argue.

 

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5 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Allen has exactly zero to do with anything. He is no longer a Colt player.

You sure go out of your way to argue.

 

Allen during that Jets game is a metaphor for anyone getting wide open on a TD catch due to something other than his own skill.  If you don't get it, then why respond.

 

Maybe responding to something you don't understand is what causes arguments.

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13 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Allen during that Jets game is a metaphor for anyone getting wide open on a TD catch due to something other than his own skill.  If you don't get it, then why respond.

 

Maybe responding to something you don't understand is what causes arguments.

It makes no difference who responses to you when all you have to offer is your opinion and then your argumentative nature kicks in. You then escalate it to the point that it makes you look silly. I am done trying to communicate with you because you refuse to accept there are other opinions than yours.

With your argumentative nature I am sure you feel you need to get the finale word so go ahead.

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6 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

It makes no difference who responses to you when all you have to offer is your opinion and then your argumentative nature kicks in. You then escalate it to the point that it makes you look silly. I am done trying to communicate with you because you refuse to accept there are other opinions than yours.

With your argumentative nature I am sure you feel you need to get the finale word so go ahead.

I didn't think  Meh was is a feather ruffling term. 

 

But it seems like any words less praising than what "should be" said ignites fight-picking responses.

 

But yeah, if I say something less praising then some want to hear, I'll keep defending it against as many and how often as I have to.  You can take back your fight-picking responses before I'll take back my meh's.

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10 minutes ago, DougDew said:

If you have comprehended this thread, the notion that Ebron was an amazing signing has been pretty much taken as a statement of fact, without anyone offering a shred of support other than some fantasy football stats.  

So, let me make sure I comprehend this.  The Colts signed a TE to catch passes and score TDs and got him for a pretty reasonable amount of money.  And when someone points out that he was an amazing signing because that TE, not only catches passes and scores TDs, but he is doing so at a rate that makes him one of the top TEs in the NFL, those are fantasy football stats and don't support the idea that he is an amazing signing?  11 TDs is not fantasy football stats... they are football stats.

 

Quote

I simply said meh, and offered various data inputs that should be considered before making that claim, like what QB he is playing with and what the philosophy is of the HC is. And given those variables, what would the offense look like if Ebron was replaced by any other tall fast guy, in the absence of any other competent option to throw to outside of TY.

 

Nothing I've said contradicts or moves off of those points.

Your other "data points" are nonsensical and have no bearing on if the signing was amazing or not.  Trying to ask a question about if he would be as good without Luck Reich is an equivocation fallacy.  Ballard signed him to play with Luck in an offensive scheme developed by Reich. 

 

You claim that any tall, fast TE would have a similar impact (since you don't mean would do as well as...) yet you can provide nothing to support that claim.  Then when others ask you to support that claim, you change it to... well they don't have Luck throwing to him in Reich scheme.

 

I can't even call it circular logic because there is not really any logic in your posts.  Like @jskinnz stated, you are contrarian, and I will add, especially on anything that shows Ballard knows what he is doing., unlike his predecessor, Grigson, who never had a clue on how to be a GM.

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Seriously.. what is wrong with some people? 

 

Colts player having a great season, partly due to Luck being back to Luck,

can we enjoy it? No. We have to argue the semantics of what “great” means. 

 

Are you fans of the Colts or fans of “winning” the Internet. 

 

A word to the wise, repeatedly detailing topics by banging the same old drum could be seen as trolling and that’s just not cool. 

 

Again, #85 is having a good season, can’t we just enjoy it? 

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3 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

So, let me make sure I comprehend this.  The Colts signed a TE to catch passes and score TDs and got him for a pretty reasonable amount of money.  And when someone points out that he was an amazing signing because that TE, not only catches passes and scores TDs, but he is doing so at a rate that makes him one of the top TEs in the NFL, those are fantasy football stats and don't support the idea that he is an amazing signing?  11 TDs is not fantasy football stats... they are football stats.

 

Your other "data points" are nonsensical and have no bearing on if the signing was amazing or not.  Trying to ask a question about if he would be as good without Luck Reich is an equivocation fallacy.  Ballard signed him to play with Luck in an offensive scheme developed by Reich. 

 

You claim that any tall, fast TE would have a similar impact (since you don't mean would do as well as...) yet you can provide nothing to support that claim.  Then when others ask you to support that claim, you change it to... well they don't have Luck throwing to him in Reich scheme.

 

I can't even call it circular logic because there is not really any logic in your posts.  Like @jskinnz stated, you are contrarian, and I will add, especially on anything that shows Ballard knows what he is doing., unlike his predecessor, Grigson, who never had a clue on how to be a GM.

:agree:

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5 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

So, let me make sure I comprehend this.  The Colts signed a TE to catch passes and score TDs and got him for a pretty reasonable amount of money.  And when someone points out that he was an amazing signing because that TE, not only catches passes and scores TDs, but he is doing so at a rate that makes him one of the top TEs in the NFL, those are fantasy football stats and don't support the idea that he is an amazing signing?  11 TDs is not fantasy football stats... they are football stats.

 

Your other "data points" are nonsensical and have no bearing on if the signing was amazing or not.  Trying to ask a question about if he would be as good without Luck Reich is an equivocation fallacy.  Ballard signed him to play with Luck in an offensive scheme developed by Reich. 

 

You claim that any tall, fast TE would have a similar impact (since you don't mean would do as well as...) yet you can provide nothing to support that claim.  Then when others ask you to support that claim, you change it to... well they don't have Luck throwing to him in Reich scheme.

 

I can't even call it circular logic because there is not really any logic in your posts.  Like @jskinnz stated, you are contrarian, and I will add, especially on anything that shows Ballard knows what he is doing., unlike his predecessor, Grigson, who never had a clue on how to be a GM.

 

Perhaps pretzel logic would describe it better.

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1 minute ago, SteelCityColt said:

Seriously.. what is wrong with some people? 

 

Colts player having a great season, partly due to Luck being back to Luck,

can we enjoy it? No. We have to argue the semantics of what “great” means. 

 

Are you fans of the Colts or fans of “winning” the Internet. 

 

A word to the wise, repeatedly detailing topics by banging the same old drum could be seen as trolling and that’s just not cool. 

 

Again, #85 is having a good season, can’t we just enjoy it? 

I can't speak for everyone but I want to win the internet.  It's my goal in life and I have been training for it since 2001 when I became the first house on my block to get cable internet access.

Just now, Cynjin said:

 

Perhaps pretzel logic would describe it better.

Still has the word "logic" though.

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11 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

So, let me make sure I comprehend this.  The Colts signed a TE to catch passes and score TDs and got him for a pretty reasonable amount of money.  And when someone points out that he was an amazing signing because that TE, not only catches passes and scores TDs, but he is doing so at a rate that makes him one of the top TEs in the NFL, those are fantasy football stats and don't support the idea that he is an amazing signing?  11 TDs is not fantasy football stats... they are football stats.

 

Your other "data points" are nonsensical and have no bearing on if the signing was amazing or not.  Trying to ask a question about if he would be as good without Luck Reich is an equivocation fallacy.  Ballard signed him to play with Luck in an offensive scheme developed by Reich. 

 

You claim that any tall, fast TE would have a similar impact (since you don't mean would do as well as...) yet you can provide nothing to support that claim.  Then when others ask you to support that claim, you change it to... well they don't have Luck throwing to him in Reich scheme.

 

I can't even call it circular logic because there is not really any logic in your posts.  Like @jskinnz stated, you are contrarian, and I will add, especially on anything that shows Ballard knows what he is doing., unlike his predecessor, Grigson, who never had a clue on how to be a GM.

You are correct, except you are equating every point with the term amazing. 

 

Amazing is not signing a tall fast TE to a reasonable contract (because of the lack of competition from other teams, or else he would cost more) to play in the O the HC designs to emphasize.  That signing is simply competent.

 

Football stats are quoted as something special, like they are in fantasy football.  Anybody who works with stats knows that quoting stats means nothing.  Its understanding how the stats were created, the situations and circumstances, why the data point is what it is, is what matters.  I've read nothing here to tell me anybody understands why his 11 tds are amazing, and why they are not similar to the way D Allen got 3 TDs in a Jest game a few years ago.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

Seriously.. what is wrong with some people? 

 

Colts player having a great season, partly due to Luck being back to Luck,

can we enjoy it? No. We have to argue the semantics of what “great” means. 

 

Are you fans of the Colts or fans of “winning” the Internet. 

 

A word to the wise, repeatedly detailing topics by banging the same old drum could be seen as trolling and that’s just not cool. 

 

Again, #85 is having a good season, can’t we just enjoy it? 

 

I believe your post/question should be directed to @DougDew.

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9 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I didn't think  Meh was is a feather ruffling term. 

 

But it seems like any words less praising than what "should be" said ignites fight-picking responses.

 

But yeah, if I say something less praising then some want to hear, I'll keep defending it against as many and how often as I have to.  You can take back your fight-picking responses before I'll take back my meh's.

 

I'll give you credit where credit is due (unlike you when it comes to Ballard)... you are really good at stirring the pot.

 

WellinformedTangibleBobwhite-small.gif

 

:hat:

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16 minutes ago, DougDew said:

You are correct, except you are equating every point with the term amazing. 

 

Amazing is not signing a tall fast TE to a reasonable contract (because of the lack of competition from other teams, or else he would cost more) to play in the O the HC designs around him.  That is simply competent.

 

Amazing would be the players level of play, the QBs level of play, or the HCs play calling at the right time.  The signing isn't amazing, IMO.

 

Football stats are quoted as something special, like they are in fantasy football.  Anybody who works with stats knows that quoting stats means nothing.  Its understanding how the stats were created, the situations and circumstances, why the data point is what it is, is what matters. 

Wow, you are really reaching.

 

Amazing is not signing a tall fast TE to a reasonable contract (because of the lack of competition from other teams, or else he would cost more) to play in the O the HC designs around him.  That is simply competent.  This one is really funny.  When discussing  Glowinski, Ballard did not do an amazing job because he found someone that nobody else thought was any good, he was just fortunate because of a bad record to get first picks on the waiver wire.  Now, with Ebron, Ballard finds someone that the rest of the league had a shot at but it's not amazing that he saw the fit, it's just competent.

 

But let's see if I can answer some of these.

Its understanding how the stats were created, the situations and circumstances: This one is easy.  So, when Ebron had possession of the football while also being located in the endzone, that creates a TD.  When a TD is created, on the TD stat column, they add 1 to the number that previously occupied the column.  Now, as it relates to football, that "TD" also adds 6 points to the stat called "score" and that stat helps to determine who wins the contest and who loses the contest. So the first stat, TD, is needed to increase the second stat "score" and the larger the score stat is the better, it can be concluded that the TD stat is an important one. And as the TD stat increases, so does the "score" stat which leads to another stat called wins.  So, TDs increase the score, which increase the chance of more wins.

 

and why they are not similar to the way D Allen got 3 TDs in a Jest game a few years ago.  Well, I would think this one is obvious but 11>3.   Also Allen did it for one game... Ebron has been playing well for 9 games in a row.

 

 

I've read nothing here to tell me anybody understands why his 11 tds are amazing,  Actually you are the one that said his 11 TDs are amazing, others are just saying that Ballard signing Ebron was an amazing signing.  And when a GM signs a player who becomes one of the best at his position it was an amazing signing.  Just like Kelly was an amazing draft pick by Grigson.

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14 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I've read nothing here to tell me anybody understands why his 11 tds are amazing

 

Definition of amazing:  causing great surprise or wonder; astonishing.

 

So you're telling me that Ebron having 11 TDs right now is NOT surprising to you?

 

You KNEW Ebron was going to have this kind of season when Ballard signed him?

 

Can I borrow your crystal ball?

 

haha

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5 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

Maybe (just maybe) because it's the most in the league for a TE, and is a complete surprise considering his history in Detroit...

 

:facepalm:

Sorry, I don't see football in those simple terms. 

 

Do you not at all consider the fact that Reich's O here in Indy emphasizes getting the tall fast TE open and in Detroit they didn't emphasize that?   Why is that concept lost? 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Wow, you are really reaching.

 

But let's see if I can answer some of these.

Its understanding how the stats were created, the situations and circumstances: This one is easy.  So, when Ebron had possession of the football while also being located in the endzone, that creates a TD.  When a TD is created, on the TD stat column, they add 1 to the number that previously occupied the column.  Now, as it relates to football, that "TD" also adds 6 points to the stat called "score" and that stat helps to determine who wins the contest and who loses the contest. So the first stat, TD, is needed to increase the second stat "score" and the larger the score stat is the better, it can be concluded that the TD stat is an important one. And as the TD stat increases, so does the "score" stat which leads to another stat called wins.  So, TDs increase the score, which increase the chance of more wins.

 

and why they are not similar to the way D Allen got 3 TDs in a Jest game a few years ago.  Well, I would think this one is obvious but 11>3.   Also Allen did it for one game... Ebron has been playing well for 9 games in a row.

 

 

I've read nothing here to tell me anybody understands why his 11 tds are amazing,  Actually you are the one that said his 11 TDs are amazing, others are just saying that Ballard signing Ebron was an amazing signing.  And when a GM signs a player who becomes one of the best at his position it was an amazing signing.  Just like Kelly was an amazing draft pick by Grigson.

Ok.  I can tell you're arguing about something you don't understand.  NVM and carry on.

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1 minute ago, DougDew said:

Do you not at all consider the fact that Reich's O here in Indy emphasizes getting the tall fast TE open and in Detroit they didn't emphasize that?   Why is that concept lost? 

 

I figured our TEs would be more involved, but I had no idea Ebron would be putting up these kinds of numbers.

 

I would be AMAZED if you thought he would.  Especially considering your opinion on all the other moves Ballard has made.

 

:dunno:

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1 minute ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

Definition of amazing:  causing great surprise or wonder; astonishing.

 

So you're telling me that Ebron having 11 TDs right now is NOT surprising to you?

 

You KNEW Ebron was going to have this kind of season when Ballard signed him?

 

Can I borrow your crystal ball?

 

haha

That would truly be amazing.

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2 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

I figured our TEs would be more involved, but I had no idea Ebron would be putting up these kinds of numbers.

 

I would be AMAZED if you thought he would.  Especially considering your opinion on all the other moves Ballard has made.

 

:dunno:

So are you amazed or surprised?  

 

What has been my opinion of all the other moves Ballard has made?

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