Ballard should double dip at DT in the draft

[Defjamz26]

It’s been said a million times, but this upcoming D-Line class is insane. You have

 

-Ed Oliver

-Jeffrey Simmons

-Quinnen Williams (if you believe the hype)

-Raekwon Davis

-Jerry Tillery

-Dre’mont Jones

-Derrick Brown

-Rashan Gary

-Gerald Willis III

 

We have 2 2nd round picks. I think we should take a DT in round 1 and get another one in the 2nd. Imagine having Simmons and Tillery on the line for example. 

[Yoshinator]

13 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

It’s been said a million times, but this upcoming D-Line class is insane. You have

 

-Ed Oliver

-Jeffrey Simmons

-Quinnen Williams (if you believe the hype)

-Raekwon Davis

-Jerry Tillery

-Dre’mont Jones

-Derrick Brown

-Rashan Gary

-Gerald Willis III

 

We have 2 2nd round picks. I think we should take a DT in round 1 and get another one in the 2nd. Imagine having Simmons and Tillery on the line for example. 

Honestly, I don't even see Ed Oliver as the top DT in the draft anymore. I'd rather have Simmons, Davis, or Tillery. 

[NewColtsFan]

19 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

It’s been said a million times, but this upcoming D-Line class is insane. You have

 

-Ed Oliver

-Jeffrey Simmons

-Quinnen Williams (if you believe the hype)

-Raekwon Davis

-Jerry Tillery

-Dre’mont Jones

-Derrick Brown

-Rashan Gary

-Gerald Willis III

 

We have 2 2nd round picks. I think we should take a DT in round 1 and get another one in the 2nd. Imagine having Simmons and Tillery on the line for example. 

 

I suspect we will take a DE or a DT with our 1st round pick and take the other with our first pick in the 2nd round.

 

One of each.  

 

Remember Ballard has talked about the RDE being the key to the defense.    I suspect the 3-Tech would be next, and then the LDE as the other key D-lineman.

[stitches]

DTs that are not elite at pass-rush are a dying breed. An all-pro Snacks Harrison just got traded for a 5th round pick. Ballard released our best defensive lineman from last year in Hankins to save 10M... If you are not disruptive in the passing game and if you cannot rush the passer with consistency you are extremely replaceable and not worthy of a round 1 or round 2 pick IMO. 

 

WIth all that said... I wouldn't mind us stacking up on great talent at the position, BUT I would target specifically pass-rushing threats at the position. The good news is that most of those are in the good to elite range at rushing the passer. 

 

BTW I absolutely am buying Quinnen Williams. But unfortunately, unless something strange happens I cannot see him slipping to our range of the draft. 

[Defjamz26]

29 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I suspect we will take a DE or a DT with our 1st round pick and take the other with our first pick in the 2nd round.

 

One of each.  

 

Remember Ballard has talked about the RDE being the key to the defense.    I suspect the 3-Tech would be next, and then the LDE as the other key D-lineman.

Well rumors are he’s big on Lewis and Turray. And they both could look really good with great interior rushers to free them up.

[Defjamz26]

29 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I suspect we will take a DE or a DT with our 1st round pick and take the other with our first pick in the 2nd round.

 

One of each.  

 

Remember Ballard has talked about the RDE being the key to the defense.    I suspect the 3-Tech would be next, and then the LDE as the other key D-lineman.

Well rumors are he’s big on Lewis and Turray. And they both could look really good with great interior rushers to free them up.

[chad72]

45 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Honestly, I don't even see Ed Oliver as the top DT in the draft anymore. I'd rather have Simmons, Davis, or Tillery. 

 

I am big on Raekwon Davis. He has the size of a 3-technique DT or 5-technique DE, but the speed of a smaller defender. His teammate Quinnen Williams said Davis is like an animal out there, to be that big, strong, fast and have a very high motor.  He is compared here to Richard Seymour here:

 

http://www.draftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=1017403&draftyear=2020&genpos=de

 

[Colts_Fan12]

Where is it that the colts are wanting to mainly play Lewis when he returns will he be an End or DT

[Yoshinator]

4 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Where is it that the colts are wanting to mainly play Lewis when he returns will he be an End or DT

He was drafted to be a DE, so I would guess they would continue to use him that way when he returns.

[chad72]

As far as the thread goes, if a quality pass catcher or OL that would have gone higher, if not for the insane depth of DLs, is available on Day 2 as good value, that would be a valid reason to not double dip into DL, IMO.

[BleedBlu8792]

2 hours ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Where is it that the colts are wanting to mainly play Lewis when he returns will he be an End or DT

He's going to play both. Inside on obvious passing downs and outside on early run downs. 

[Moosejawcolt]

I believe he goes D linemen with his  1st  2 picks if the value is there.

  I could even see him trading his 2  2nds if a D linemen is there in the 1st that he values. So if we pick 10-15, I would bet he goes D line men.  Then if another one is there in the 20's in round 1, he may make a move and make a trade for his 2  2nds.

[NewColtsFan]

7 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

Well rumors are he’s big on Lewis and Turray. And they both could look really good with great interior rushers to free them up.

I believe those rumors...   but before a wave if injuries hit our defense,  we were playing 8 DL every week.   10 DL on the roster overall.

 

Having two guys we like us not enough.   Especially when there us all this great DL talent available in six months.    

 

If you’ll forgive the pun, I believe Ballard will be very GREEDY when it comes to drafting DL in the 19 draft.

 

[Moosejawcolt]

I think we will come out of this draft with 3 D linemen in our first 5 picks.  I have seen some highlights and draft profiles of the top Dtackles.  For those who know more bout football than me, which is just bout everyone.  What D tackle best fits this Zone based rush 4 D linemen? I know Oliver looks like a great fit, but he apparently plays at sub 280.   He is projected at being a top 3 pick  to a late first rounder.   I have read that  scouts r very  leary of his size.  I am not sure I want my D tackle playing at that size no matter how explosive he is.  I just think that a player that light playing in the interior, will b man handled .  He could fall because of his size and b available to us.  I just have flashbacks  of when we had D tackles playing at sub 280 in the Dungy days.  Oliver is damn explosive but that eventually gets minimized when coming up against a talented guard who is 40 pounds heavier. Let me know what u  guys think.  Welcome the feedback.

[Defjamz26]

4 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

I believe those rumors...   but before a wave if injuries hit our defense,  we were playing 8 DL every week.   10 DL on the roster overall.

 

Having two guys we like us not enough.   Especially when there us all this great DL talent available in six months.    

 

If you’ll forgive the pun, I believe Ballard will be very GREEDY when it comes to drafting DL in the 19 draft.

 

That is all true. And he says (like most GMs do) that you can never have enough pass rushers. The only thing is I don’t see the top end talent at edge rusher the way I do at DT. The DL class is deep, but not for DEs. There’s Bosa and Ferrell. After that maybe Sweat and Allen from Kentucky. It’s possible he does take a DE and DT as you said but I don’t see it being 1 and 2 necessarily. There’s a big drop off after the first 2-3 guys.

[NewColtsFan]

10 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

That is all true. And he says (like most GMs do) that you can never have enough pass rushers. The only thing is I don’t see the top end talent at edge rusher the way I do at DT. The DL class is deep, but not for DEs. There’s Bosa and Ferrell. After that maybe Sweat and Allen from Kentucky. It’s possible he does take a DE and DT as you said but I don’t see it being 1 and 2 necessarily. There’s a big drop off after the first 2-3 guys.

 

Nobdoy was talking about Turay and Lewis at this time last year.     In fact,  none of us were talking about them until we drafted them.      There may not be lots of hot, sexy DE's,  but there are some Under the Radar type guys who WILL surface in January, February, March and April.

 

I promise,   there will be more names to surface before the draft arrives.       In fact,  by coincidence, Mel and Todd just did a whole story on ESPN.com about the best pass rushers in the 19 draft.     I'll try to post as much info as I can sometime this week....   maybe tomorrow.    I just can't right now...

 

Sorry....  

[stitches]

40 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

That is all true. And he says (like most GMs do) that you can never have enough pass rushers. The only thing is I don’t see the top end talent at edge rusher the way I do at DT. The DL class is deep, but not for DEs. There’s Bosa and Ferrell. After that maybe Sweat and Allen from Kentucky. It’s possible he does take a DE and DT as you said but I don’t see it being 1 and 2 necessarily. There’s a big drop off after the first 2-3 guys.

Some people are really high on Zach Allen and Wyatt Ray from Boston College. 

 

Also - watch for Jachai Polite from Florida and Brian Burns from Florida state. Both are potential round 1 EDGE players. Jaylon Ferguson from Louisiana Tech is having another insane season as a senior after he seemed to drop off last season(7 sacks) after a 14.5 sack season in his sophomore season. Right now he's at 12.5 sacks and 17.5 TFLs in just 9 games played. He's at 40 sacks for his career in Louisiana Tech right now. 

 

There should also be some small school players that might jump up boards as the draft process plays out... Oshane Ximines and Sutton Smith are the ones I've heard being talked about. 

[Defjamz26]

Also, what’s everyone’s thoughts on RShan Gary? He’s been mocked to the Colts on more than 1 occasion.

[stitches]

2 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

Also, what’s everyone’s thoughts on RShan Gary? He’s been mocked to the Colts on more than 1 occasion.

Hard to evaluate him when he's missed the last 3-4 games. I wasn't incredibly impressed by him in the first game I saw of him this season(I think it was vs Notre Dame. I think there will be better players on the board if we stay drafting in the top 10-15... 

[MikeCurtis]

I wouldn't be opposed to a DL for 2 of 3 first round picks

 

It depends on who is there

 

I think there are 3 or 4, 3 techs that are game changers

 

Guys that would help this defense tremendously

 

If these guys are available when we pick (15 to 18), I would RUN to the podium to pick them

 

I think Oliver is one of these. I think Williams (the DT) is one of these.......

 

I fear both are long gone when we pick

 

I also think that we will move Brisett (As a HUGE fan of texas BBQ, I want to call him Briskett)

 

He could get a 2nd.   We could pull some players with a first and THREE 2nds

 

 

 

Long time til then..... many things will change.....

  

 

 

[Jason_]

22 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

He was drafted to be a DE, so I would guess they would continue to use him that way when he returns.

 

To expand on what BleedBlu8792 said, Ballard said that they really like Lewis at 3 tech and that he has the prototypical build they're looking for in a 3-tech.  I'm pretty sure they'll use Lewis in much the same way they've been using Hunt and Autry....DE on early and short-yardage downs and inside on passing downs.  

[MikeCurtis]

24 minutes ago, J@son said:

 

To expand on what BleedBlu8792 said, Ballard said that they really like Lewis at 3 tech and that he has the prototypical build they're looking for in a 3-tech.  I'm pretty sure they'll use Lewis in much the same way they've been using Hunt and Autry....DE on early and short-yardage downs and inside on passing downs.  

He is a guy that gives you some flexibility.

 

He could rotate with Sheard on early downs, then kick inside

 

He strengthens the team

[BleedBlu8792]

49 minutes ago, J@son said:

 

To expand on what BleedBlu8792 said, Ballard said that they really like Lewis at 3 tech and that he has the prototypical build they're looking for in a 3-tech.  I'm pretty sure they'll use Lewis in much the same way they've been using Hunt and Autry....DE on early and short-yardage downs and inside on passing downs.  

 

The only thing I fear with Lewis is that when he was in the low 270's at Ohio State, his frame looked pretty much maxed. He's not an overly athletic guy like Turay either, so I really hope they don't try and add weight on him just to play him inside more.  

[Defjamz26]

2 hours ago, stitches said:

Hard to evaluate him when he's missed the last 3-4 games. I wasn't incredibly impressed by him in the first game I saw of him this season(I think it was vs Notre Dame. I think there will be better players on the board if we stay drafting in the top 10-15... 

I think I read somewhere that his worst tape of 2018 was against Notrr Dame and his best was against Ohio State. Appreciate your take though. Personally I really like Jeffrey Simmons, but idk if Ballard will pull the trigger because of the character. I like Dre’Mont Jones but he much like Oliver, is said to be a lot smaller than listed.

[NewColtsFan]

23 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

That is all true. And he says (like most GMs do) that you can never have enough pass rushers. The only thing is I don’t see the top end talent at edge rusher the way I do at DT. The DL class is deep, but not for DEs. There’s Bosa and Ferrell. After that maybe Sweat and Allen from Kentucky. It’s possible he does take a DE and DT as you said but I don’t see it being 1 and 2 necessarily. There’s a big drop off after the first 2-3 guys.

 

OK....

 

As promised the other night,  I have a list of 18 names from Mel and Todd.      Don't worry yet about what order they appear in.     These are not listed by order. 

 

Also,  there are some top names that are NOT on this list,  that only means that pass rush might not be their top skill.    

 

Here goes...     Enjoy!

 

-- Nick Bosa           Ohio State

-- Ed Oliver            Houston

-- Rashaan Gary   Michigan

-- D.  Brown          Auburn

-- Q. Williams       Alabama

-- J. Simmons       Mississippi State

-- C. Wilkins         Clemson

-- D. Lawrence     Clemson

-- C. Ferrell           Clemson   (Best rusher for Clemson)

-- J.  Allen              Kentucky   (More OLB than DE)

-- M. Sweet           Mississippi State

-- B. Burns            Florida State

-- J. Polite              Florida

-- O.  Ximenes      Old Dominion

-- Z.  Allens           Boston College 

-- J. Ferguson       Louisiana Tech

-- H. Coe               Auburn

-- D. Roberson    Sam Houston State

 

Again,  this was a story about top pass rushers,  and someone like Tillery is not even listed here --- yet.    So,  there will be even more names to consider as time goes on.

 

[coltsnation]

I don't buy the hype on Quinnen Williams but I like Gary, Jones, and Ferrell.  Would be fine taking anyone who could pair up with Leonard and eat up blocks for him.

[Dark Superman]

I'd be shocked if Ballard didn't go defense with at least 2 of our first 3 picks.

[Dark Superman]

If Denico Autry can stay healthy and if Tyquan Lewis can show some promise our DT depth will look a lot more promising, especially if we add more talent in the draft or FA.

[Defjamz26]

9 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

OK....

 

As promised the other night,  I have a list of 18 names from Mel and Todd.      Don't worry yet about what order they appear in.     These are not listed by order. 

 

Also,  there are some top names that are NOT on this list,  that only means that pass rush might not be their top skill.    

 

Here goes...     Enjoy!

 

-- Nick Bosa           Ohio State

-- Ed Oliver            Houston

-- Rashaan Gary   Michigan

-- D.  Brown          Auburn

-- Q. Williams       Alabama

-- J. Simmons       Mississippi State

-- C. Wilkins         Clemson

-- D. Lawrence     Clemson

-- C. Ferrell           Clemson   (Best rusher for Clemson)

-- J.  Allen              Kentucky   (More OLB than DE)

-- M. Sweet           Mississippi State

-- B. Burns            Florida State

-- J. Polite              Florida

-- O.  Ximenes      Old Dominion

-- Z.  Allens           Boston College 

-- J. Ferguson       Louisiana Tech

-- H. Coe               Auburn

-- D. Roberson    Sam Houston State

 

Again,  this was a story about top pass rushers,  and someone like Tillery is not even listed here --- yet.    So,  there will be even more names to consider as time goes on.

 

Thanks for not only keeping your word but taking the time to do this. I’ve seen a lot of those names in 1st round mocks too. The DL class sounds better than I originally thought. Excellent work NCF

[BOTT]

On 11/7/2018 at 10:56 AM, MikeCurtis said:

I wouldn't be opposed to a DL for 2 of 3 first round picks

 

It depends on who is there

 

I think there are 3 or 4, 3 techs that are game changers

 

Guys that would help this defense tremendously

 

If these guys are available when we pick (15 to 18), I would RUN to the podium to pick them

 

I think Oliver is one of these. I think Williams (the DT) is one of these.......

 

I fear both are long gone when we pick

 

I also think that we will move Brisett (As a HUGE fan of texas BBQ, I want to call him Briskett)

 

He could get a 2nd.   We could pull some players with a first and THREE 2nds

 

 

 

Long time til then..... many things will change.....

  

 

 

Is there any other kind of bbq?

[MikeCurtis]

7 hours ago, BOTT said:

Is there any other kind of bbq?

Have you had BBQ in OHIO (or most other states?)

 

It doesn't compare to Texas BBQ

 

ketchup on a hot dog is NOT BBQ

 

Its like a Porsche and VW beetle racing   

 

The BEST however........is MEMPHIS!

 

https://hogsfly.com/

 

I have been in every state but 3.... (Bucket list)

 

This is the BEST rib joint......... in the USA

[BOTT]

1 hour ago, MikeCurtis said:

Have you had BBQ in OHIO (or most other states?)

 

It doesn't compare to Texas BBQ

 

ketchup on a hot dog is NOT BBQ

 

Its like a Porsche and VW beetle racing   

 

The BEST however........is MEMPHIS!

 

https://hogsfly.com/

 

I have been in every state but 3.... (Bucket list)

 

This is the BEST rib joint......... in the USA

Memphis? Blasphemy!!  Lol. Seriously though, outside of Texas, Memphis is the place to go.

[ztboiler]

Regardless of DL depth in the 19 draft...it’s unlikely to have a prototype 3Tech outside of the top 15.  The more we win the more we should expect our 1st Rd pick to be BPA.  Polian wanted a 3Tech for this same system just as badly.  He just couldn’t ever get into position to draft one.

 

Hopefully Ballard is better at Identifying players like Geno Atkins outside of Rd 1 than Polian was.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

I'd be happy with Ballard double-dipping at DT in the draft since a good DL makes this defense work.

 

5 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

The BEST however........is MEMPHIS!

 

3 hours ago, BOTT said:

Memphis? Blasphemy!!  Lol. Seriously though, outside of Texas, Memphis is the place to go.

 

I'd also be happy to double-dip a little Memphis BBQ sauce and a little Carolina BBQ sauce (I like that cider vinegar tang).

 

On a side-note:  Patrick Mahomes is Ketchup-Crazy.  If he's putting ketchup on steak, he'd probably pass on the BBQ sauce to put ketchup on his ribs... 

[KB]

That pick from the Jets could be very beneficial for getting a second top Dlineman. With such an abundance of talent this year, someone is bound to fall a bit and we could get another. I think if we get a 3 tech in the first we could draft DE Jaylon Ferguson with our early second. Many other possibilities.

 

Now on the flip side. If there is a run for the Dlineman before that pick some other talent must fall in the process. Then I would wait for the later picks when the talent is near bpa.

[Vexed]

6 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

Have you had BBQ in OHIO (or most other states?)

 

It doesn't compare to Texas BBQ

 

ketchup on a hot dog is NOT BBQ

 

Its like a Porsche and VW beetle racing   

 

The BEST however........is MEMPHIS!

 

https://hogsfly.com/

 

I have been in every state but 3.... (Bucket list)

 

This is the BEST rib joint......... in the USA

The best BBQ is Kansas City. You stand corrected.

[MikeCurtis]

2 hours ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

I'd also be happy to double-dip a little Memphis BBQ sauce and a little Carolina BBQ sauce (I like that cider vinegar tang).

 

Dude........

 

Carolina BBQ is NASTY

 

I use vinegar to clean my coffee maker........ WHY would I RUIN ribs with a cleaning product??

[MikeCurtis]

2 hours ago, KB said:

That pick from the Jets could be very beneficial for getting a second top Dlineman. With such an abundance of talent this year, someone is bound to fall a bit and we could get another. I think if we get a 3 tech in the first we could draft DE Jaylon Ferguson with our early second. Many other possibilities.

 

Now on the flip side. If there is a run for the Dlineman before that pick some other talent must fall in the process. Then I would wait for the later picks when the talent is near bpa.

I would be tempted to use one of our 2 2nd round picks to improve our position in round one to pick up one of the 3-4 UTs that would make this defense SHINE

[KB]

22 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

I would be tempted to use one of our 2 2nd round picks to improve our position in round one to pick up one of the 3-4 UTs that would make this defense SHINE

The big guys will be interesting. I dont think the good ones will fall to our late second if we make the playoffs, but if we do make the playoffs then our first would be the perfect area for Dexter Lawrence or Derrick Brown.

 

I think Christian Wilkins would also be good because he can play both DT sports IMO. Slide him to NT on pass downs and 3tech on run downs with Stewart at NT.

 

The ones I'm finding interesting for us are Rashaan Gary and Zach Allen types. They can play DE or 3 tech at a high level. Autry and Hunt show me that is their kind of guy. If they do play DE it will be on the strong side where they dont need as much bend and can excel in run support. Kick them inside for obvious passing downs.

 

The pure 3 tech are the ones I expect to fall once we get past Jeffery Simmons. The question is how far though.

[MikeCurtis]

17 minutes ago, KB said:

The big guys will be interesting. I dont think the good ones will fall to our late second if we make the playoffs, but if we do make the playoffs then our first would be the perfect area for Dexter Lawrence or Derrick Brown.

 

I think Christian Wilkins would also be good because he can play both DT sports IMO. Slide him to NT on pass downs and 3tech on run downs with Stewart at NT.

 

The ones I'm finding interesting for us are Rashaan Gary and Zach Allen types. They can play DE or 3 tech at a high level. Autry and Hunt show me that is their kind of guy. If they do play DE it will be on the strong side where they dont need as much bend and can excel in run support. Kick them inside for obvious passing downs.

 

The pure 3 tech are the ones I expect to fall once we get past Jeffery Simmons. The question is how far though.

I am warming up to Wilkins as well

 

He moves like a UT

 

He is a mountain, AND he gets penetration

 

We have NTs already that can hold 2 blockers.... but none that would push into the backfield