Sharrif Floyd to sue Dr. Andrews and Andrews Institute

[ColtsBlueFL]

Sharrif Floyd is suing Dr. Andrews and the Andrews Institute for Orthopedic Surgery & Sports Medicine for 180 million dollars. Floyd allegedly suffered permanent nerve and muscle damage in his right leg after undergoing knee surgery at the Andrews Institute in September 2016 (Pensacola, FL)

 

Story here-

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000985075/article/sharrif-floyd-suing-dr-james-andrews-for-180m

 

 

 

[Nesjan3]

Sucks for the doctors, human error happens all the time,  in this case it ended a young mans multi million dollar career .

[chad72]

30 minutes ago, Nesjan3 said:

Sucks for the doctors, human error happens all the time,  in this case it ended a young mans multi million dollar career .

 

Anyone that has had their knee scoped or learnt about what a knee scope is would know that a knee scope is a minor outpatient surgery, not major surgery. How on earth can a knee scope assume major turns during surgery, I do not know, I am not a specialist!!! However, I would think the patient was made aware of something at some point in time if it turned into a major surgery in order to proceed??? If not, that is negligence.

 

I work a desk job and have refused to go under the knife for a torn meniscus and knee swelling on and off and opted to do rehab instead for several reasons - chance for post-surgery infection, odds of same problem lingering even after surgery etc. But these athletes need faster turnaround times and tend to go under the knife far more than the common man. 

 

We would need to know more facts and not just dismiss it as human error, IMO.

[crazycolt1]

Without more details in this case I am not going to assume anything.

With that said Doctors and hospitals make an alarming amount of mistakes.  More and more nurse practitioners are doing the work doctors used to do. Now a lot of doctors just sign off on what the practitioner said or does. For the most part the culture in doctoring has disappeared.

[DougDew]

Accurate diagnosis and procedure is not a guarantee.   You can only choose the doctor with the reputation that suits you.   If Floyd didn't like how the operation turned out, he should have tried it himself. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

18 hours ago, Nesjan3 said:

Sucks for the doctors, human error happens all the time,  in this case it ended a young mans multi million dollar career .

 

We don't have the facts, no assumptions can be made.

 

18 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

Anyone that has had their knee scoped or learnt about what a knee scope is would know that a knee scope is a minor outpatient surgery, not major surgery. How on earth can a knee scope assume major turns during surgery, I do not know, I am not a specialist!!! However, I would think the patient was made aware of something at some point in time if it turned into a major surgery in order to proceed??? If not, that is negligence.

 

This from another article-

 

"The suit alleges that Floyd suffered permanent nerve and muscle damage in his leg as the result of a 2016 surgery performed at the Andrews Institute for Orthopaedics and Sports Medicine. Floyd was allegedly told he needed arthroscopic knee surgery, but the suit claims the surgery was much bigger in scope and that subsequently he was "negligently administered a pain blocker," which caused the damage to his right leg. "

 

And this in most every consent form I've read-

 

"The surgeon might not be able to say exactly what needs to be done until they are looking inside the knee. Therefore the consent form is non-specific. It allows the surgeon to treat most abnormalities found during the operation."

 

Quote

I work a desk job and have refused to go under the knife for a torn meniscus and knee swelling on and off and opted to do rehab instead for several reasons - chance for post-surgery infection, odds of same problem lingering even after surgery etc. But these athletes need faster turnaround times and tend to go under the knife far more than the common man. 

 

We would need to know more facts and not just dismiss it as human error, IMO.

 

Agreed.

 

Some boring studies on the subject follow:

 

Concerning post arthroscopy nerve injury-

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5063498/

 

"14,979 patients underwent these surgical procedures, 10 of whom were reported to have sustained a nerve injury post surgery (0.07%). Nerve injury occurred at a rate of 0.03% after hip arthroplasty, 0.01% following knee arthroplasty and 0.02% within three months of arthroscopic knee surgery. Overall, nerve injuries were two times more prevalent in the diabetic vs. non-diabetic population (0.11% vs. 0.06%); however, this difference did not meet conventional levels of statistical significance. Specific to knee arthroplasty, there were ten-fold differences in nerve injury rates between diabetics and non-diabetics, 0.11% vs. 0.01% respectively (p ≤ 0.01) – although the overall risks were small.

Conclusion: Nerve injuries following hip and knee arthroplasty, and knee arthroscopy were rare in a large population of patients younger than 65 years."

 

Concerning nerve block during arthroscopy-

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4916811/

 

{snip}

Conclusion: Adding a sciatic nerve block to the femoral nerve block is important for painless knee arthroscopy. Further adding of an obturator nerve block may be needed when a valgus knee position is required to manage the medial meniscus tear.

 

I'm quite sure these small risks were addressed in the consent to proceed form.  I assume Floyd didn't like the terms of an out of court settlement?  It seems they want what he would make in his whole career if he turned out elite and never suffered a debilitating injury.

 

Here's a typical consent form, and the rare chance nerve damage is mentioned here-

http://www.thehipandkneesurgeons.co.za/downloads/knee-arthroscopy-consent.pdf

 

I feel for the guy.  Wish it never happened.  Interesting to see what happens, or if results get reported.

 

 

[NFLfan]

@ColtsBlueFL Great stuff as usual. 

 

Is it your understanding that "the surgery was greater in scope" means that another procedure took place? Is Floyd's attorney alleging that the doctors are liable because the surgery that he went in for is not what was performed? "Greater in scope" makes me believe that the surgeon should not have performed the procedure because it was not what the player signed up for.

 

I support Floyd in this case while not knowing all the facts. I'm biased. 

[TheMarine]

From what Ive heard (no citations) the secondary injury was a micro fracture in the knee area which required the additional work.

[chad72]

1 hour ago, TheMarine said:

From what I've heard (no citations) the secondary injury was a micro fracture in the knee area which required the additional work.

 

Personally, I have no doubt in my mind that if they opened my knee up, they will find lots of junk beyond any singular issue they are going to address, based on the issues I have had over the last couple of years.

 

I got a second opinion from Dr. Shelbourne (Shelbourne Knee Center in Indianapolis) on my knee once based on my MRI, and he said if you do an MRI of a 40 plus year old, you are going to find wear and tear. That kind of "tear" is not a tear worthy of surgery. He also jokingly said that he told his 65 year old wife that if she were to have a heart scan at her age, she is likely to find something that is going to scare her, and my MRI of my knee (right one) was no different, there will always be enough to worry you about.  

[jvan1973]

8 hours ago, DougDew said:

Accurate diagnosis and procedure is not a guarantee.   You can only choose the doctor with the reputation that suits you.   If Floyd didn't like how the operation turned out, he should have tried it himself. 

A patient should expect a routine procedure won't end up ending his career.   Not too much to ask really

[DougDew]

19 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

A patient should expect a routine procedure won't end up ending his career.   Not too much to ask really

He chose a doc who was known to be the best at this procedure.  Have to take a chance that even the best make mistakes. 

 

Pretending that perfection is the standard is one way to get money out of a rich person.  It's less direct than robbing a liquor store and its legal to have a lawyer use the judicial system to steal the money for you.

 

It depends on how a person defines justice.

[ColtsBlueFL]

1 minute ago, NFLfan said:

@ColtsBlueFL Great stuff as usual. 

 

Is it your understanding that "the surgery was greater in scope" means that another procedure took place. Is Floyd's attorney alleging that the doctors are liable because the surgery that he went in for is not what was performed? "Greater in scope" makes me believe that the surgeon should not have performed the procedure because it was not what the player signed up for, so to speak.

 

I support Floyd in this case despite not know the facts. I'm biased. 

 

I have no idea, nor any wish to speculate, on what they allege.  I can just imagine the amount of 'experts' on each side that will be lined up for testimony though...

[dw49]

20 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Without more details in this case I am not going to assume anything.

With that said Doctors and hospitals make an alarming amount of mistakes.  More and more nurse practitioners are doing the work doctors used to do. Now a lot of doctors just sign off on what the practitioner said or does. For the most part the culture in doctoring has disappeared.

 

I was reading an article on why health care is so expensive in the US .. we spend like 9K per person I think. The author was pointing out what you say amount other things. He went on to say hospitals (many of them) have tons of empty beds and they make an incredible amount of mistakes. Said everyone should avoid a hospital stay if at all possible and more need to be closed. Besides the mistakes , you risk contacting some life threatening infections. 

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

I have no idea, nor any wish to speculate, on what they allege.  I can just imagine the amount of 'experts' on each side that will be lined up for testimony though...

Yes when it comes to law suits there are a lot of people who want their cut of the money no doubt.

[ColtsBlueFL]

11 hours ago, TheMarine said:

From what Ive heard (no citations) the secondary injury was a micro fracture in the knee area which required the additional work.

 

Ahhh, I'm not buying it at this point. But I do remember he had post-op issues and I was worried for him back then.

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2700931-sharrif-floyd-reportedly-may-retire-due-to-surgery-complications-on-knee-injury

 

 

 

[jvan1973]

4 hours ago, DougDew said:

He chose a doc who was known to be the best at this procedure.  Have to take a chance that even the best make mistakes. 

 

Pretending that perfection is the standard is one way to get money out of a rich person.  It's less direct than robbing a liquor store and its legal to have a lawyer use the judicial system to steal the money for you.

 

It depends on how a person defines justice.

Complete nonsense.   It was a knee scope.   No reason he should end up with life long disability.     It would be one thing if it were an experimental procedure.   It wasn't.   It was a routine procedure. 

[jvan1973]

5 hours ago, DougDew said:

He chose a doc who was known to be the best at this procedure.  Have to take a chance that even the best make mistakes. 

 

Pretending that perfection is the standard is one way to get money out of a rich person.  It's less direct than robbing a liquor store and its legal to have a lawyer use the judicial system to steal the money for you.

 

It depends on how a person defines justice.

Malpractice is a thing.   He went in for a common procedure.   He will get paid.   The end

[crazycolt1]

4 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

Malpractice is a thing.   He went in for a common procedure.   He will get paid.   The end

Wouldn't that all depend on what he signed in the waiver pages?  The doctor has not been found guilty of malpractice at this point and till that is proved this won't be settled.

[DougDew]

8 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

Malpractice is a thing.   He went in for a common procedure.   He will get paid.   The end

Dr. Andrews has helped a lot of people for a long time.  Asking for $180 million dollars, what is probably 4 times his lifetimes earnings just for one mess up seems like more than simple justice.  

 

Floyd seems to be asking for that level of award simply to get as much out of the pot-o-money known as the insurance company as he can. 

 

Justice seems like an excuse for a robbery, and the botched procedure a weapon to commit such robbery.

 

Besides, if he's having knee problems to the extent he needs to see the best Dr. in the world, Floyd's career is probably questionable before the operation.  Those are the conditions at the time.  Floyd didn't have that level of earnings capacity with the knee he had the day he walked into the hospital.  Andrews didn't take $180 million of earnings capacity away from him.

[ColtsBlueFL]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

  Andrews didn't take $180 million of earnings capacity away from him.

 

I'm not an attorney (though we have one or two here as members) but future loss is a big battle ground, and how much for how long he may have made in his career and other projected factors are important. On top of that, you also have-

Future medical Costs
Life time prescription Drug Costs
Future Rehabilitation costs
Pain and Suffering

 

Damage compensation is what mediation or trials determine. I never even attempt to speculate what eventually comes out from them.

[DougDew]

35 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

I'm not an attorney (though we have one or two here as members) but future loss is a big battle ground, and how much for how long he may have made in his career and other projected factors are important. On top of that, you also have-

Future medical Costs
Life time prescription Drug Costs
Future Rehabilitation costs
Pain and Suffering

 

Damage compensation is what mediation or trials determine. I never even attempt to speculate what eventually comes out from them.

Maybe.  Future projections seem fraught with potential mistakes.  What if drug costs and rehab methods improve so much as to be much cheaper 10 years from now than what they are when the money was awarded.  Does Floyd have to return  a lot of the money because nothing actually costs as much as they projected?  Will he admit he is in less pain than what he thought he would be? Is he free to spend every cent of it the moment he gets it, or is it held in escrow and the situation evaluated to show that what was projected remains true?  

 

My guess is that its a one sided look at it from the plaintiff point of view because that $180 million pot-o-money is some nonhuman entity that can be replenished by future premiums.  If Andrews was personally liable, the courts would consider intent, risks disclosed to the patient, and whether or not to put a valuable doctor out of business based upon one mistake.  Floyd would get a lot less.  In this case, the award will probably be based upon what the source of the money is and how much more money that endless pot can generate.  Kind of based upon an underlying premise of who has the money and how much of it.

[jvan1973]

8 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Wouldn't that all depend on what he signed in the waiver pages?  The doctor has not been found guilty of malpractice at this point and till that is proved this won't be settled.

Yes,   he has to be found guilty of coarse.   If he is,   floyd will get paid.    It won't be 180 million though

[esmort]

Even if they believe Dr. Andrew's (and all Dr's involved) did everything correctly the insurance company will settle before this ever gets to court (for WAY less than $180 mil.). 

[crazycolt1]

5 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

Yes,   he has to be found guilty of coarse.   If he is,   floyd will get paid.    It won't be 180 million though

True enough. Once the lawyers get a hold of something where money can be made the numbers go astronomical. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Lawyers always make the sue amount out of this world in cases like these so they can still get a large amount and so can their client if they win their case. If Andrews and other Docs are found negligent, Shariff still won't even get close to 180 Mill. He will get a few Million though IMO which is Great regardless.

[DrColtsFan]

Disclaimer: as my screen name indicates, I’m not a lawyer but just successfully defended myself in court against a false malpractice claim.  From this experience, I know that medical malpractice is certainly more complicated than just “he had a poor outcome and the doctor/malpractice company should pay”.  First the patient has to prove that Dr Andrews violated the standard of care - what a reasonably prudent doctor would do in the same circumstances. Secondly, that it was that specific violation of care that caused the injury or bad outcome. Known surgical complications (even if rare) do not violate standard of care. 

 

Malpractice clearly happens, but I agree with posters above, we don’t know near enough about the details of this case to know if malpractice was committed. If malpractice was committed then Floyd absolutely deserves compensation. If not, I would suspect that Dr Andrews (who’s practice on professional athletes depends on his reputation) will want his day in court.