You're the GM

[Goatface Killah]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Look....    you're entitled to your opinion,  but I just don't understand why anyone would think that?

 

The 3-day "legal tampering" period is for the express purposes of finding out how much the player wants,  and how much the team is willing to offer.    Are the two sides even close?    Is there a gap that can be bridged or are the two sides so far apart that there's no reason to talk.    That's what happened with the Dallas LB who we were reportedly the front-runner for because of his relationship with Eburflus.    But on Day One, we all woke up to the news that the player signed with KC for more than we were willing to offer.   

 

NFL sources reported we were one of the three finalists.    There's no reason to report that if there isn't some truth to it.    We spent the 6th overall pick on a guard.    We were the runner-up for Jensen, the 2nd best interior lineman in FA.     Why wouldn't we at least make an offer to the best OL available?   I don't see why you wouldn't believe that we made an offer and were out bid?

 It doesn't add up to me.....

 

 

Agents float bogus reports every single day. Yes there IS reason to do that. 

 

But we can just disagree on this.

[jvan1973]

4 minutes ago, GoatBeard said:

Agents float bogus reports every single day. Yes there IS reason to do that. 

 

But we can just disagree on this.

Every day? Where is this info reported?

[Goatface Killah]

This is honestly just common sense.

 

If Andrew Norwell is visiting the Bucs, and they hear reports that Indianapolis is also interested and he is gonna visit, it kind of gives them incentive to get a deal done, no?

 

If they know so much about the negotiation, why arent there any details in the report? Did the report say we were outbid? No. 

 

Where do you guys think all these reports come from? Agents. You dont think they manipulate the media? Of course they do, every chance they get.

 

[Superman]

On 10/18/2018 at 6:47 PM, GoatBeard said:

This is honestly just common sense.

 

If Andrew Norwell is visiting the Bucs, and they hear reports that Indianapolis is also interested and he is gonna visit, it kind of gives them incentive to get a deal done, no?

 

If they know so much about the negotiation, why arent there any details in the report? Did the report say we were outbid? No. 

 

Where do you guys think all these reports come from? Agents. You dont think they manipulate the media? Of course they do, every chance they get.

 

 

Ryan Jensen literally visited the Colts in person, at the team facility, for two days. 

[Goatface Killah]

8 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Ryan Jensen literally visited the Colts in person, at the team facility, for two days. 

I wasnt talking about Jensen.

 

I was referring to the comment that we were "outbid" for Andrew Norwell. And, we might have been, but there just isnt any proof thats the case. 

 

[richard pallo]

33 minutes ago, GoatBeard said:

I wasnt talking about Jensen.

 

I was referring to the comment that we were "outbid" for Andrew Norwell. And, we might have been, but there just isnt any proof thats the case. 

 

If Jensen visited for two days and left without a contract one could assume we were outbid for him as well.  

[ColtsBlueFL]

44 minutes ago, GoatBeard said:

I wasnt talking about Jensen.

 

I was referring to the comment that we were "outbid" for Andrew Norwell. And, we might have been, but there just isnt any proof thats the case. 

 

 

Colts don't even have to be out bid.  Offer could be same $, but there is no Florida State income tax (less deducted). Also, what type and how much in guarantees?

 

Then there are outside influences (wife/GF preference, family, weather, housing, etc...)

[MPStack]

7 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

If Jensen visited for two days and left without a contract one could assume we were outbid for him as well.  

Also, was he willing to play OG? However, ultimately in most cases, yes it comes down to money. NFL careers are short and with the possibility of injuries, players have to protect themselves financially and will do so I would think in most cases.

[Jason_]

1 hour ago, richard pallo said:

If Jensen visited for two days and left without a contract one could assume we were outbid for him as well.  

 

One could also assume that the colts brass didn't like the way the visit with so they chose not to extend an offer. 

 

Either way though, it's just an assumption. 

[Superman]

1 hour ago, GoatBeard said:

I wasnt talking about Jensen.

 

I was referring to the comment that we were "outbid" for Andrew Norwell. And, we might have been, but there just isnt any proof thats the case. 

 

 

You cast doubts on basically all reporting about player interest, visits and negotiations, implying that it's all agent manipulation and not to be trusted.

 

And really, the larger point is that the Colts showed obvious signs of being interested in some of the big name free agents. 

[Goatface Killah]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

You cast doubts on basically all reporting about player interest, visits and negotiations, implying that it's all agent manipulation and not to be trusted.

 

And really, the larger point is that the Colts showed obvious signs of being interested in some of the big name free agents. 

When did I say they didnt show interest? I never said that. i also didnt say you couldnt trust it, but you certainly cant embellish what is reported to fit your idea of what happened.

 

I just said was they werent "outbid".

 

Why is this a problem for people? 

 

3 hours ago, richard pallo said:

If Jensen visited for two days and left without a contract one could assume we were outbid for him as well.  

Or maybe, we decided not to make him an offer? Maybe he was more expensive than we thought? 

 

You can assume we were outbid if you want. But assumptions dont equal truth.

[Goatface Killah]

3 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Colts don't even have to be out bid.  Offer could be same $, but there is no Florida State income tax (less deducted). Also, what type and how much in guarantees?

 

Then there are outside influences (wife/GF preference, family, weather, housing, etc...)

No youre right they dont. 

 

There are many factors that play into it. Which is why its unfair to assume we were outbid in an attempt to paint Chris Ballard as cheap.

[Superman]

44 minutes ago, GoatBeard said:

When did I say they didnt show interest? I never said that. i also didnt say you couldnt trust it, but you certainly cant embellish what is reported to fit your idea of what happened.

 

I just said was they werent "outbid".

 

Why is this a problem for people? 

 

I must have misunderstood you. I'm definitely not arguing that Ballard was being cheap, but he clearly had an breaking point with a lot of these guys, and wasn't going to just cave to any demand. Not cheap, disciplined. I'm fine with that.

 

As for whether the Colts were outbid, no, we can't know for sure why the Colts didn't get it done with any of these guys. But it seems pretty obvious that they wouldn't send the private jet to Tampa for Ryan Jensen and host him for two days if they weren't ready to make a competitive offer. It's an assumption to say they made him an offer, but it seems more than reasonable, right?

 

Why Jensen chose the Bucs is something we probably won't ever get a direct answer on, but we can analyze the facts and kind of piece it together ourselves. No state tax is a big indicator, and the fact that he's playing center in Tampa is another. 

 

And then applying that kind of logic to the other situations over the last couple years makes sense to me also. The time period from the combine through the draft is commonly called "lying season" in the NFL, because there is a lot of inaccurate and sometimes completely false information that goes around. But I think it's fair to conclude that Ballard pursued some guys over the last two years that wound up signing elsewhere, for various reasons. And I'm fine with that.

 

Last thing, I think the idea that there's a full on bidding war for free agents is kind of off base. I've read articles from agents and players that suggest that there isn't even that much of a negotiation for March free agents. Those stories paint a picture of agents naming their price, and teams either saying 'great, let's do it,' or saying 'thanks, we'll pass.' Protracted contract negotiations don't really seem to happen during the signing period. They seem to happen under wraps before free agency starts (which is against the actual rules), or in the handful of cases where a player lingers on the market for a while longer than expected. Just my thinking based on the stories I've read and heard. 

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, GoatBeard said:

When did I say they didnt show interest? I never said that. i also didnt say you couldnt trust it, but you certainly cant embellish what is reported to fit your idea of what happened.

 

I just said was they werent "outbid".

 

Why is this a problem for people? 

 

Or maybe, we decided not to make him an offer? Maybe he was more expensive than we thought? 

 

You can assume we were outbid if you want. But assumptions dont equal truth.

 

Now you’re bring too cute by half...   completely disingenuous.

 

Of course we were outbid.    And the sky is blue, and water is wet.  When you’re a finalist for a player you’ve made an offer.   

 

When I noted stories said the Colts were in the top three for Norwell you said it came from agents to drive up the price.   You offered no proof, no links, no facts.   Pure conjecture to fit your view of things. 

 

Being outbid does NOT mean we were caught being cheap.   I’ve never said that.   It simply means we were among the finalists for both Norwell and Jensen but Ballard was not willing to spend whatever it took to sign these guys.   He showed great discipline.   I’ve never viewed Ballard’s moves in the off season as negative.   But you defend them as if that’s what’s happening. 

 

There are a number if fans here who spin everything Ballard does to the negative.   I’m not one of them.

 

 

[Goatface Killah]

4 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Now you’re bring too cute by half...   completely disingenuous.

 

Of course we were outbid.    And the sky is blue, and water is wet.  When you’re a finalist for a player you’ve made an offer.   

 

When I noted stories said the Colts were in the top three for Norwell you said it came from agents to drive up the price.   You offered no proof, no links, no facts.   Pure conjecture to fit your view of things. 

 

Being outbid does NOT mean we were caught being cheap.   I’ve never said that.   It simply means we were among the finalists for both Norwell and Jensen but Ballard was not willing to spend whatever it took to sign these guys.   He showed great discipline.   I’ve never viewed Ballard’s moves in the off season as negative.   But you defend them as if that’s what’s happening. 

 

There are a number if fans here who spin everything Ballard does to the negative.   I’m not one of them.

 

 

My original post wasnt even directed at you.

 

And you never posted anything that refuted what i said about Norwell. I dont have to try and read by the lines. You can if you want.

 

 

 

 

[ColtsBlueFL]

2 hours ago, GoatBeard said:

I just said was they werent "outbid".

 

Why is this a problem for people? 

 

Because bold claims demand bold proof?

 

Curious if you have any?

[ColtsBlueFL]

2 hours ago, GoatBeard said:

No youre right they dont. 

 

There are many factors that play into it. Which is why its unfair to assume we were outbid in an attempt to paint Chris Ballard as cheap.

 

True. No facts to prove one way over another.

 

I guess we would have to rely on preponderance of the evidence. Where's @OffensivelyPC to mediate this?

 

[Goatface Killah]

2 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Because bold claims demand bold proof?

 

Curious if you have any?

No, except the lack of evidence to suggest otherwise. 

 

I have zero doubt that Chris Ballard wanted to make Andrew Norwell an offer. For all I know, he did. For all I know, he offered him more. I have no clue, other than we obviously had some interest and pursued him.

 

All Im really trying to say is that we dont know why Andrew

Norwell made the decision he ultimately made. As NCF mentioned before, state tax could've factored in. Weather could have been a consideration. Maybe he is a big Jameis Winston fan and thought the Bucs were just a better opportunity to win. His wife, if he even has one, might have played a part. I havent the slightest idea.

 

I just dont see any reason to feel like we didnt offer enough money. Irsay isnt a cheap owner. And even if Ballard didnt want to pay Norwell top dollar, that doesnt mean he was outbid necessarily. Maybe he would rather get Nelson for cheap and save that money for something else. He got paid tackle money i believe, so that is a possibility as well.

 

Idk, its nothing personal, just my opinion.