IcyRhythms

Colin Cowherd asks if we should give more credit to Luck than A. Rodgers

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He gives a really good comparison to what Rodgers has had(and currently has)vs what Luck is working with. Us Colts fans talk about this all the time, but I didn't realize until Colin put the numbers up just how great some of the stuff around Rodgers is. Not taking anything away from Rodgers. Guy is the best in the league(for now)and has been for a few years. We're hard on Luck around here, but the numbers don't lie in this case.

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Lately Cowherd's narrative has been to take away the fact that Rogers is the best QB im football, which we all know he is, and put his beloved brady, aka as the dinker & dunker, as the top QB. Cowherd's job amd other's in media is to tell everyone brady is the greatest ever.

Ignoring possibly every ring he has is TAINTED.

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Not taking away what Brady has accomplished  But he is blessed with a system that works for him. I would be curious to see if he could have won Super bowls on another team besides the Patriots

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5 minutes ago, horseshoecrabs said:

Not taking away what Brady has accomplished  But he is blessed with a system that works for him. I would be curious to see if he could have won Super bowls on another team besides the Patriots

I think we both know the answer to that. He's certainly good. You don't play this long(even as a consistent dinker and dunker)and not at least be better than half the league's starting QB's. I agree with LJ as well. Just about every ring he has is tainted. The majority of the credit(and by majority I mean 70-80%)should go to the coaching and the Patriots as a whole for being the best at turning nobodies into a somebody. Their ability to do that is second to none. Their discipline is second to none. Brady is hands the luckiest leader in all of sports. He's in the best situation with the best possible coach, surround talent, of course the owner.

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When it comes to Brady, Montana, and Peyton it is tough to put one of them above the other when it comes to Cowherd's Brady talk. Even though this is an opinion, I have little doubt though if Peyton played on those Pats or 49ers teams that he would have 4 or 5 Rings as well. The Ring argument is the only reason why the media doesn't put Peyton as the clear cut #1 best ever, because he has won 5 League MVP's. He still won 2 Rings with 2 different teams which is very respectable. To be on topic now, Luck and Rodgers are equally important to their teams IMO, but Rodgers is the best QB in the league.

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1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

When it comes to Brady, Montana, and Peyton it is tough to put one of them above the other when it comes to Cowherd's Brady talk. Even though this is an opinion, I have little doubt though if Peyton played on those Pats or 49ers teams that he would have 4 or 5 Rings as well. The Ring argument is the only reason why the media doesn't put Peyton as the clear cut #1 best ever, because he has won 5 League MVP's. He still won 2 Rings with 2 different teams which is very respectable. To be on topic now, Luck and Rodgers are equally important to their teams IMO, but Rodgers is the best QB in the league.

Only starting QB to win the SB with two different teams AND(I think this is more special)the only QB to take four different head coaches to a SB. 

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Basically, Cowherd sees the same thing that we see in regards to Luck and the Colts.

 

Luck has never had a good run game, a good O-line, good set of receivers, (aside from T.Y. and Doyle), a good defense, and good coaching, until Reich. 

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31 minutes ago, IcyRhythms said:

 

He gives a really good comparison to what Rodgers has had(and currently has)vs what Luck is working with. Us Colts fans talk about this all the time, but I didn't realize until Colin put the numbers up just how great some of the stuff around Rodgers is. Not taking anything away from Rodgers. Guy is the best in the league(for now)and has been for a few years. We're hard on Luck around here, but the numbers don't lie in this case.

Yes, Colts fans are hard on him.  He has average talent around him.  He’s shown us he can still ball.  Luck is as mentally tough as they come and hasn’t gotten nearly enough credit for it. The WRs totally let him down.  He doesn’t have a bell cow RB or even a good one. The OL pass protects pretty well but can run block.  

 

Ballard has much work to do. 

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It would be scary to see how much better Luck would look with a legit Running game. We would definitely win more. Luck has never had a legit run game his whole career. Frank wasn't too bad but we caught him towards the end of his career. He would have a Good game about once every 3 games. Too bad the Colts didn't have Frank when he was 27.

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13 minutes ago, IcyRhythms said:

Only starting QB to win the SB with two different teams AND(I think this is more special)the only QB to take four different head coaches to a SB. 

Yeah winning the 2 SB's he did as a starter on 2 different teams hasn't been done by any other QB. He gets huge bonus points for that.

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29 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

Lately Cowherd's narrative has been to take away the fact that Rogers is the best QB im football, which we all know he is, and put his beloved brady, aka as the dinker & dunker, as the top QB. Cowherd's job amd other's in media is to tell everyone brady is the greatest ever.

Ignoring possibly every ring he has is TAINTED.

 

Among the media there are few members who love Andrew Luck more than Colin Cowherd.    He’s crazy about him.

 

CC also lives Rodgers and Brady.    It’s OKtvst he loves all of them.   He’s not shorting anything to Luck by also living other QBs...

 

There’s no problem here...

 

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More than Rodgers? I dunno. 

But, what Luck has done here is nothing short of remarkable. Maybe someday more people will come to understand that. 


 

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If you look at over the years what is one of the constants, that separate most Super bowl winners is  "Balance on passing and ball control"  Last year Eagles,  The Colts when we had Ball control running attack w/ passing  Addai & Roads, Not Peyton breaking passing records and scoring quickly (That by the way played a major part in the defenses run stop game that year of being atrocious) The undefeated season with the Patriots with Moss in the long ball passing game. but in the end losing to the Giants. I can go back to Air Corial Chargers with the record breaking air attach with Dan Foults, Great QB numbers but, No balance and ball control in the running game.

 

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7 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Among the media there are few members who love Andrew Luck more than Colin Cowherd.    He’s crazy about him.

 

CC also lives Rodgers and Brady.    It’s OKtvst he loves all of them.   He’s not shorting anything to Luck by also living other QBs...

 

There’s no problem here...

 

Cowherd does love Luck. I remember he once said Luck and Lebron are the most important players in team sports.

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In my own opinion, Peyton is the best QB to ever play... I'm old enough to have watched his entire career in the NFL... That said, i have been thinking lately and wondering to myself...

 

As good as Luck does with such little talent... Imagine if Luck had this team:

 

LT: Tarik Glenn   LG: Ryan Lilja  C: Jeff Saturday  RG: Jake Scott  RT: Ryan Diem

 

RB: Edgerrin James

 

WR:  Marvin Harrison ; Reggie Wayne ; Brandon Stokely

 

TE: Dallas Clark

 

And on D,  Marlin Jackson, Nick Harper, Freeney, Mathis, Brackett, Cato June, Bob Sanders...

 

My point is... if we had that kind of talent surrounding Andrew Luck, just how good would he be/would that kind of team be?

 

It's hard to imagine (for me personally) anyone being better than Peyton... but it's also hard for me to imagine that team losing a game with Luck as the QB.

 

Just food for thought.

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1 minute ago, coltsblue1844 said:

In my own opinion, Peyton is the best QB to ever play... I'm old enough to have watched his entire career in the NFL... That said, i have been thinking lately and wondering to myself...

 

As good as Luck does with such little talent... Imagine if Luck had this team:

 

LT: Tarik Glenn   LG: Ryan Lilja  C: Jeff Saturday  RG: Jake Scott  RT: Ryan Diem

 

RB: Edgerrin James

 

WR:  Marvin Harrison ; Reggie Wayne ; Brandon Stokely

 

TE: Dallas Clark

 

And on D,  Marlin Jackson, Nick Harper, Freeney, Mathis, Brackett, Cato June, Bob Sanders...

 

My point is... if we had that kind of talent surrounding Andrew Luck, just how good would he be/would that kind of team be?

 

It's hard to imagine (for me personally) anyone being better than Peyton... but it's also hard for me to imagine that team losing a game with Luck as the QB.

 

Just food for thought.

If Luck played for the Ravens in early 2000's or Steelers mid 2000's with that coaching and defense, he'd probably be 14-2 or 15-1 every year. I think he's that talented, yeah. The NFL has seen amazing talent that just never reaches full potential because they're not in the best situation.

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6 minutes ago, IcyRhythms said:

If Luck played for the Ravens in early 2000's or Steelers mid 2000's with that coaching and defense, he'd probably be 14-2 or 15-1 every year. I think he's that talented, yeah. The NFL has seen amazing talent that just never reaches full potential because they're not in the best situation.

The team i mentioned was the 2005 Colts... i'm just imagining if Luck had that team to play with for a decade (with a few parts moving to and from, obviously), just how good they would be

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In the final  analogist, the common denominator  is team chemistry.  No matter  what your talent level is. It becomes a mental game at  a certain point. At this point team chemistry becomes the defining factor most of the time.   

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Not hard on Luck. 

 

Yesterday we saw a QB throw for 82 yards, and two other QBs throw for 10 completions and all 3 won.

 

Tough to win when the team can't stop anybody and your kicker misses 5 kicks in a game..

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Luck is far more comparable to Rodgers than many think. I think Rodger is better, but it's not a huge gap.

 

And Luck hasn't had one team that's has comparable talent to what Rodgers has.

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13 hours ago, The Fish said:

Luck is far more comparable to Rodgers than many think. I think Rodger is better, but it's not a huge gap.

 

And Luck hasn't had one team that's has comparable talent to what Rodgers has.

 

 

Rodgers hasn't had good teams the past couple of years, as shown when he's gone down this year and last year. 4-6 win talent.

 

Teams he had from 09-14 were very talented though. Though even then they were clearly below 0.500 when he went down in 2013.

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Luck absolutely deserves more credit. He should have won at least 2 MVP's by now, but the media does not watch any Colts games. To make things worse, inferior QB's are getting praised as if they are better than Luck. Carson Wentz, for example, has never played in a playoff game. On what planet could Wentz possibly be better than Andrew Luck?

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Why is it widely accepted that Aaron Rodgers is the best QB in football? Usually when I see him play, he loses. Is it because of those lucky hail Mary plays that builds this perception? I mean he is certainly good, just don't understand why people act as if it is indisbutable that he is the best. There are many good QBs in the league 

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I'm not trying to compare anyone, but I will say Rogers has a grenade launcher for an arm. 

 

His wrist flick passes even go 30 yards. 

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Lets calm down. I think Luck has the potential to be an all time great if we can get him some help but right now, they aren’t on the same planet and that’s not a knock on Luck. Not many are on the same planet as AR. 

 

IMO

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Cowturd is a joke.   He does this all the time.  It is kind of his thing.   He cherry picks some stats to make an argument that he thinks will stir people up.  

 

To combat his "pro bowl" thoughts, I would say that good QB's do more to make other offensive players pro bowlers than the player himself.   Luck has been out for a couple years, so of course the Colts had less pro bowlers.  

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16 hours ago, IcyRhythms said:

If Luck played for the Ravens in early 2000's or Steelers mid 2000's with that coaching and defense, he'd probably be 14-2 or 15-1 every year. I think he's that talented, yeah. The NFL has seen amazing talent that just never reaches full potential because they're not in the best situation.

Dan Marino comes to mind.

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5 hours ago, Pacergeek said:

Carson Wentz, for example, has never played in a playoff game. On what planet could Wentz possibly be better than Andrew Luck?

 

What does Wentz never having played in a playoff game have to do with whether he's a better QB than Luck or not?

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7 minutes ago, J@son said:

 

What does Wentz never having played in a playoff game have to do with whether he's a better QB than Luck or not?

Don't you know?   Foles is better than Marino.

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21 hours ago, coltsblue1844 said:

In my own opinion, Peyton is the best QB to ever play... I'm old enough to have watched his entire career in the NFL... That said, i have been thinking lately and wondering to myself...

 

As good as Luck does with such little talent... Imagine if Luck had this team:

 

LT: Tarik Glenn   LG: Ryan Lilja  C: Jeff Saturday  RG: Jake Scott  RT: Ryan Diem

 

RB: Edgerrin James

 

WR:  Marvin Harrison ; Reggie Wayne ; Brandon Stokely

 

TE: Dallas Clark

 

And on D,  Marlin Jackson, Nick Harper, Freeney, Mathis, Brackett, Cato June, Bob Sanders...

 

My point is... if we had that kind of talent surrounding Andrew Luck, just how good would he be/would that kind of team be?

 

It's hard to imagine (for me personally) anyone being better than Peyton... but it's also hard for me to imagine that team losing a game with Luck as the QB.

 

Just food for thought.

 

Andrew would do well with those players surrounding him. But with Peyton Manning in his prime (Andrew is in his prime) there is no contest here. We would be 5-0 or 4-1 right now with this current team with Peyton running the show. 

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6 hours ago, Tsarquise said:

Why is it widely accepted that Aaron Rodgers is the best QB in football? Usually when I see him play, he loses. Is it because of those lucky hail Mary plays that builds this perception? I mean he is certainly good, just don't understand why people act as if it is indisbutable that he is the best. There are many good QBs in the league 

 

His QB rating is nearly 4 points higher than the next QB.

 

The perception was established long before his hail mary passes.

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36 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

Andrew would do well with those players surrounding him. But with Peyton Manning in his prime (Andrew is in his prime) there is no contest here. We would be 5-0 or 4-1 right now with this current team with Peyton running the show. 

 

Andrew may be in his prime as far as age, but he just came off of an over 600 day break between games... The season that Peyton had his knee scoped during training camp, he took several games to shake the rust off, just like it took Andrew a few games to do so this year...  

 

Counting this season, Andrew is on his 6th season (75 total games played) ... when compared to Peyton through his first 5 seasons payed (80 games) this is how they compare:

 

TD:  138 (Peyton) vs 144 (Andrew)

INT: 100 (Peyton) vs 73 (Andrew)

Yards: 20,618 (Peyton) vs 20,569 (Andrew)

Remember, this is with Andrew playing 5 fewer games and also playing some of those rusty (this year).

 

SO, if we use AGE as "Prime", then would Peyton really have this team undefeated as you claimed?  Let's not forget that he also had a good/great run game with Edge and also had Marvin Harrison this whole time and Reggie/Dallas part of that time.

 

I'm the biggest Peyton fan and think he was the best ever...but i think my question about how Andrew wouldve done with his team is a fair one.

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6 minutes ago, coltsblue1844 said:

 

Andrew may be in his prime as far as age, but he just came off of an over 600 day break between games... The season that Peyton had his knee scoped during training camp, he took several games to shake the rust off, just like it took Andrew a few games to do so this year...  

 

Counting this season, Andrew is on his 6th season (75 total games played) ... when compared to Peyton through his first 5 seasons payed (80 games) this is how they compare:

 

TD:  138 (Peyton) vs 144 (Andrew)

INT: 100 (Peyton) vs 73 (Andrew)

Yards: 20,618 (Peyton) vs 20,569 (Andrew)

Remember, this is with Andrew playing 5 fewer games and also playing some of those rusty (this year).

 

SO, if we use AGE as "Prime", then would Peyton really have this team undefeated as you claimed?  Let's not forget that he also had a good/great run game with Edge and also had Marvin Harrison this whole time and Reggie/Dallas part of that time.

 

I'm the biggest Peyton fan and think he was the best ever...but i think my question about how Andrew wouldve done with his team is a fair one.

 

While I agree the numbers may look the same the era was completely different from then to now. Much more pass happy now, than even in Peyton’s day. 

 

Im not saying Andrew isn’t good either. But Peyton was simply a master on the field. Could read defenses like no other, and ran the no huddle offense on every single snap. The dude was amazing to watch, he was like a Dr. operating a surgery on the opposing defense.

 I love Andrew. But if I was building a team from scratch I would still draft Peyton over him. In a heart beat.  

 

Andrew can still do amazing things and I have no doubt he will. And who knows, maybe he will make me eat my words. 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Pacergeek said:

Luck absolutely deserves more credit. He should have won at least 2 MVP's by now, but the media does not watch any Colts games. To make things worse, inferior QB's are getting praised as if they are better than Luck. Carson Wentz, for example, has never played in a playoff game. On what planet could Wentz possibly be better than Andrew Luck?

 

Oh the humanity...

 

Please tell me the years that Luck should have won the MVP?  Let me make it easy for you as the only years that this is a "legit" argument are 2012-2104 because a QB of 8-8 teams don't really qualify which eliminates 2015 and 2016.

 

2012 - AP rushes for nearly 2000 yards and Luck is not even Rookie of the Year.

2013 - Manning throws for 5400 yards and 55 TD's

2014 - Rodgers throws for 4300 yards and 38 TD's and his team is 12-4.  

 

So which 2 of those years should he have supplanted the actual winner?

 

Wentz is a really good to great QB.  Anyone with an ounce of a football IQ  can see that.  Plus the year he got all the praise happened to be the year that Luck did not play.  And clearly Wentz would have played in a  playoff game and was the likely MVP had he not gotten hurt.  It is not close to a certainty that Luck is the better QB.  

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I've always stuck up for Luck.  Out of his draft class and generation of QBs, he has been dealt the worst hand and still has a AFC conference appearance on his resume.  

 

Luck has taken every punch thrown at him in stride.

 

Luck SHOULD be considered elite.  

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Luck had no offensive line, no running game, no defense, bad coaches, and bad GM. The fact that Luck won 11 games during all 3 of those seasons, is nothing short of remarkable. You pick the two years, but a strong case could be made for 3 MVP's. I don't care about numbers on a spread sheet

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19 minutes ago, jskinnz said:

 

Oh the humanity...

 

Please tell me the years that Luck should have won the MVP?  Let me make it easy for you as the only years that this is a "legit" argument are 2012-2104 because a QB of 8-8 teams don't really qualify which eliminates 2015 and 2016.

 

2012 - AP rushes for nearly 2000 yards and Luck is not even Rookie of the Year.

2013 - Manning throws for 5400 yards and 55 TD's

2014 - Rodgers throws for 4300 yards and 38 TD's and his team is 12-4.  

 

So which 2 of those years should he have supplanted the actual winner?

 

Wentz is a really good to great QB.  Anyone with an ounce of a football IQ  can see that.  Plus the year he got all the praise happened to be the year that Luck did not play.  And clearly Wentz would have played in a  playoff game and was the likely MVP had he not gotten hurt.  It is not close to a certainty that Luck is the better QB.  

Not saying Rodgers didn't deserve it in 2014 but Luck had 4761 Yards and 40 TD's in 2014 and his team went 11-5. Not much difference at all between the 2 in 2014. Luck actually had more Yards and TD's and only won 1 game less. IMO Luck had a strong argument for MVP in 2014. Luck's numbers in 2014 are almost identical to Matt Ryan's in 2016 when the Falcons went 11-5 and he won MVP. The media does overlook us a bit, JMO.

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