Lets discuss the offense

[Legend of Luck]

I've seen a lot of differing view points here today, but I'd like to dive deeper into the struggles on offense.

 

1. Was it the playcalling? I know we had some suspect calls throughout the game, but was that the biggest issue all day? 

2. Was it sticking to an ineffective run game? 

3. Was it the offensive line?

4. Was it the receivers not getting separation?

5. Was it Luck making poor choices and being inaccurate?

6. Did the weather have any affect?

 

Not looking for everybody to answer all of these, just wanted to throw out questions that are on my mind to try to spark conversation and hopefully ease my mind, because I'm very nervous after watching this game. 

[Mr.Debonair]

Play Calling was a bit conservative in red zone it seemed

 

O-line played well especially in pass blocking against a really good D-Line

 

Having depend on guys like Rodgers will always hurt a QB. He is a nice story but isn’t a play maker at all. Ebron didn’t have a great game today. We need a big body WR

 

Luck was late on some reads and made some bad throws. The last time we were in the red zone I think he should have went back shoulder to TY instead of to the back corner. He also should have used his legs. On the tipped pass during that same drive, I think he had a lane to run

[ColtsBlitz]

The biggest factor was the play calling. The fact Luck had around 12 completed passes for 30ish yards is bad. Shows how conservative our offense has been playing. I get it was a good defense, but you don’t win games by playing that way. 

 

Luck can only play as good as the calls made, but he made some poor throws, including downfield throws. It was raining, and maybe that was a factor, but that fact remains. 

 

The offense as a whole needs to improve, or this season is lost. And it all rests on Luck. Again. If he improves, the team improves. As in undefeated improvement. We won’t lose another game if Luck gets back to throwing 2-3 TDs a game and making clutch throws. 

[richard pallo]

Plain and simple.  We need another offensive playmaker.  TY can't do it alone.  Our division is wide open.  Not to late to bring someone in.  

[legend300]

17 minutes ago, Mr.Debonair said:

Play Calling was a bit conservative in red zone it seemed

 

O-line played well especially in pass blocking against a really good D-Line

 

Having depend on guys like Rodgers will always hurt a QB. He is a nice story but isn’t a play maker at all. Ebron didn’t have a great game today. We need a big body WR

 

Luck was late on some reads and made some bad throws. The last time we were in the red zone I think he should have went back shoulder to TY instead of to the back corner. He also should have used his legs. On the tipped pass during that same drive, I think he had a lane to run

I totally agree the throw should’ve been a back shoulder throw.  My son is a high school QB and he said that also.  

[Stephen]

3 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Plain and simple.  We need another offensive playmaker.  TY can't do it alone.  Our division is wide open.  Not to late to bring someone in.  

who could we possible get at this stage that could take pressure off t.y.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Hey I have a suggestion, lets take Dez Bryant over to Waffle House, feed him some Biscuits and Gravy, some Bacon and Sausage + Milk and a Beer  - He will be all ours 

[love the shoe]

on the last field goal we made that 3rd down play call to Jordon in the flat was bad, like we were going to just settle for three and also if you look at the throw to Ebron , Erick was wide open

Quote

 

 

[RockThatBlue]

I think a lack of a running game is killing this team. I think that's why you see us use so many screens.

[richard pallo]

43 minutes ago, Stephen said:

who could we possible get at this stage that could take pressure off t.y.

LaVeon Bell for one.  And there could be other players available that we are not aware of.  No one saw the Brissett trade coming last year either.  The trade deadline is next month sometime.  I would be shocked if Ballard does anything to improve this team via a trade though. We could be a playoff team this year.  But I think he's going to stand pat and go with what he has.  He's all about his three year rebuild. 

[TheMarine]

We wont know until Castanzo is back and Doyel is back. Then we'll see what the full look of this offense is supposed to be. Until then, I dont think we're going to see much more than what we have thus far

[NDcolt]

40 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

I think a lack of a running game is killing this team. I think that's why you see us use so many screens.

But...  Jordan Wilkins is the savior to this running game..?  Do you now appreciate what Mack brings to this team now that Wilkins hasn’t shown any play making ability?  Colts 1-0 when Mack is in

[Stephen]

1 hour ago, richard pallo said:

LaVeon Bell for one.  And there could be other players available that we are not aware of.  No one saw the Brissett trade coming last year either.  The trade deadline is next month sometime.  I would be shocked if Ballard does anything to improve this team via a trade though. We could be a playoff team this year.  But I think he's going to stand pat and go with what he has.  He's all about his three year rebuild. 

Bell would cost too much to obtain via trade. Ballard wouldnt even do that for mack.

[Mr.NotSoCreative]

8 hours ago, RockThatBlue said:

I think a lack of a running game is killing this team. I think that's why you see us use so many screens.

Is it our backs? O line? Maybe get more creative with the play calling? Needs to be consistent, not necessarily great. 

[shakedownstreet]

Maybe it was Philly's defense

[shakedownstreet]

9 hours ago, richard pallo said:

Plain and simple.  We need another offensive playmaker.  TY can't do it alone.  Our division is wide open.  Not to late to bring someone in.  

 

That's certainly true. But if one or two of those 'oh so near' plays are made in the redzone, it would seem like a non issue

[richard pallo]

7 hours ago, Stephen said:

Bell would cost too much to obtain via trade. Ballard wouldnt even do that for mack.

Mack's price was high.  Bell won't come close to that IMO. 

[shakedownstreet]

Bell is just way too much of a risk at this point. He could make or break our success over the next 5 years

[lollygagger8]

11 hours ago, RockThatBlue said:

I think a lack of a running game is killing this team. I think that's why you see us use so many screens.

 

 

Agreed. The bad part is the Colts can't execute or stop screens either. 

[Valpo2004]

12 hours ago, Legend of Luck said:

I've seen a lot of differing view points here today, but I'd like to dive deeper into the struggles on offense.

 

1. Was it the playcalling? I know we had some suspect calls throughout the game, but was that the biggest issue all day? 

2. Was it sticking to an ineffective run game? 

3. Was it the offensive line?

4. Was it the receivers not getting separation?

5. Was it Luck making poor choices and being inaccurate?

6. Did the weather have any affect?

 

Not looking for everybody to answer all of these, just wanted to throw out questions that are on my mind to try to spark conversation and hopefully ease my mind, because I'm very nervous after watching this game. 

 

The throws to Ebron in the endzone from about 15 yards out felt forced.  He was never really that open, if he was it was only a tiny window.  We should have used short passes to move up to the goal line to punch it in.  

[#12.]

Luck's last full season we had, what, the #6 offense?  What's the difference in talent?  Moncrief?

 

Whenever people complained about that offense, in particular the passing game, I said the same thing - no, it's not perfect, but that offense was good enough to win with.  You had 1,000 problems on that team, but the passing game was at the bottom of the list.

 

So now that the defense is coming around, now that we are getting better coaching and in game adjustments, the offense is disappearing.  We've gone too far in the other direction with the offense.  The offense did essentially nothing yesterday.  Thirteen of the 16 points came off a shortened field/long PI and two red zone turnovers.  

 

Generally speaking, I agree with what they are trying to do offensively... to a point.  Yes, you need to protect Luck.  Yes, you want to play complementary football, but you have to get more aggressive in spots and you can't play for FGs.  The only time you play for FGs is late in the 3rd or the 4th, when pushing it to a two score lead feels decisive.  We had that situation in the Bengals game, but at that moment, we were curiously aggressive and Luck took a sack, pushing us out of FG range.

 

Play calling and game management - Reich hasn't quite hit his stride yet.

 

[rockywoj]

12 hours ago, Mr.Debonair said:

Play Calling was a bit conservative in red zone it seemed

 

O-line played well especially in pass blocking against a really good D-Line

 

Having depend on guys like Rodgers will always hurt a QB. He is a nice story but isn’t a play maker at all. Ebron didn’t have a great game today. We need a big body WR

 

Luck was late on some reads and made some bad throws. The last time we were in the red zone I think he should have went back shoulder to TY instead of to the back corner. He also should have used his legs. On the tipped pass during that same drive, I think he had a lane to run

... and TY should have turned to his left breaking the route to the sideline.  He was wide open if he had done so.  The fade throw to his right was a horrible play.  

 

So so disappointed in the red zone play calling.  Opportunity for another W squandered.

 

The good news is, by rights the Colts should arguably be 3-0. This one stings even more than the loss to Cincy, though.  Truly, next week verse division rival Houston is mission critical if there is to be any semblance of a real sniff at the playoffs. Have to win the division games!

[#12.]

It's interesting that we're doing all this dinking and dunking, short passes, screens etc., yet in the red zone many of the plays seem to have a high degree of difficulty - fades, back shoulder throws.  Fitting it into tight windows, like the sideline throw to Rogers.  That's part of the picture, but then we're also running it too much in the red zone and seemingly giving up and playing for FGs on other downs.  We need a red zone revamp.

[Colt.45]

The offense was bad and conservative and the most puzzling aspect was that last drive. It showed the Colts could move the ball if they wanted. 

Philly spent the 1st two weeks getting their corners burned to crisp yet the Colts rarely tested those outside DBs. Is it a case that Luck can't quite make those throws at the moment? Or it wasn't in the gameplan? Whatever it was, I bet Frank Reich looks at the tape of that game and hates himself, cant NOT because that was an eyesore.

 

*I always thought it'd take Luck at least the 1st month of the season to get back into the groove so I'm not too worried about him....yet.

[The Fish]

There was two or three critical spots where Luck should have probably tucked and run and instead tossed/lobbed passes into coverage. I also didn't love the back shoulder to TY on the 3 down in the endzone. The odds that was going to work aren't great in my estimation. 

 

They were closer in some respects than we're giving them credit for, but also further away from relevance if that's Luck's ceiling- he simply has to get better in multiple ways. 

[krunk]

9 minutes ago, The Fish said:

There was two or three critical spots where Luck should have probably tucked and run and instead tossed/lobbed passes into coverage. I also didn't love the back shoulder to TY on the 3 down in the endzone. The odds that was going to work aren't great in my estimation. 

 

They were closer in some respects than we're giving them credit for, but also further away from relevance if that's Luck's ceiling- he simply has to get better in multiple ways. 

I thought on that dropped pass to Chester Rogers in the endzone Luck probably should have just ran and picked up the first down.  I guess you can't all the way blame him for throwing the ball if he thought it was wide open. 

[throwing BBZ]

Andrew has always ran the ball to make important first downs.to win games  Run Andrew Elway Run.
Philly stuffed the run game, and that was no surprise. All teams should tighten their coverage till our QB proves  he can make plays beyond 10 yards.
Andrew has always forced the ball while starring down his receivers. He was 10-21 48% combined to TY and Ebron. And had 9 passes defended on the day.

 In game one Andrew amazed me by throwing pass after pass right on the money, leading his receivers so they could catch and run. Something he has always been poor at.
 Most all of them were 5 yard routes. Now he has to learn how to look off defenders and throw 15 yard passes into tight windows, on time. It may take a few more years on that.  
 

[chad72]

7 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

Andrew has always ran the ball to make important first downs.to win games  Run Andrew Elway Run.
Philly stuffed the run game, and that was no surprise. All teams should tighten their coverage till our QB proves  he can make plays beyond 10 yards.
Andrew has always forced the ball while starring down his receivers. He was 10-21 48% combined to TY and Ebron. And had 9 passes defended on the day.

 In game one Andrew amazed me by throwing pass after pass right on the money, leading his receivers so they could catch and run. Something he has always been poor at.
 Most all of them were 5 yard routes. Now he has to learn how to look off defenders and throw 15 yard passes into tight windows, on time. It may take a few more years on that.  
 

 

A - Game one was at home. Less pressure on Luck and Bengals played more zone. Once they tightened it up in the second half and played more man coverage with only single safety high, we couldn't run and we couldn't pass allowing 24 straight points.

 

B - Teams did not have a feel for the type of offense Colts would run, so they kept both safeties back more than teams playing D will do now.  Nyheim Hines is not an unknown toy anymore.

 

Now, we have realized why Jack Doyle was in the game more often because Ebron, for all the talent he has, never has hit his ceiling with consistent play, and Jack gave us the extra blocking that helped our OL much more when it is hurt. I feel like a broken record - we need to draft that WR2 in the early rounds (Day 2) to take attention off T.Y. soon. 

[krunk]

Ebron dissapointed me a bit yesterday.

[richard pallo]

Everyone seems resigned to the fact of waiting until next year to get a WR2 or any type of playmaker to help our offense.  Why?   Just throw this season away as developmental.  The trade deadline is sometime in October.  There is time to upgrade this team with a quality player.  We have a chance to win our division and/or make the playoffs.  Sitting on your hands and doing nothing is not acceptable IMO.  Hopefully Ballard is working the phones and trying to upgrade our team and particularly the offense before the trade deadline expires. 

[chad72]

16 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Everyone seems resigned to the fact of waiting until next year to get a WR2 or any type of playmaker to help our offense.  Why?   Just throw this season away as developmental.  The trade deadline is sometime in October.  There is time to upgrade this team with a quality player.  We have a chance to win our division and/or make the playoffs.  Sitting on your hands and doing nothing is not acceptable IMO.  Hopefully Ballard is working the phones and trying to upgrade our team and particularly the offense before the trade deadline expires. 

 

Those are primarily because of Ballard's actions with free agents this off season, plus the house money the current set of coaches are playing with thus focusing more on player development than instant results. Fair or not, those expectations are what I have reconciled myself to. 

 

This is not a case where Polian was stubborn with his Colts era managed team, that was a perennial playoff contender, needing a few defensive pieces to put them over the edge and refused to play free agency for the same. This is a case where we have a team whose floor is average and whose ceiling is unknown till an entire season of coaching, QB play and player development plays out, IMO. 

[richard pallo]

11 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Those are primarily because of Ballard's actions with free agents this off season, plus the house money the current set of coaches are playing with thus focusing more on player development than instant results. Fair or not, those expectations are what I have reconciled myself to. 

 

This is not a case where Polian was stubborn with his Colts era managed team, that was a perennial playoff contender, needing a few defensive pieces to put them over the edge and refused to play free agency for the same. This is a case where we have a team whose floor is average and whose ceiling is unknown till an entire season of coaching and player development plays out, IMO. 

I could "probably" accept those expectations if we had a rookie QB.  But not with Luck returning and a division that is winnable this year.  Even with all of our new players this team is capable of winning now and making the playoffs if this offense could only get itself jump started with another playmaker.  Ballard should be able to see that our defense is already good and ahead of schedule.    It's the offense that could use some help.  He doesn't have to abandon his three year plan.  Just get Luck some help and this could be an unexpected exciting year. 

[Luck 4 president]

Play calling was terrible and predictable. I’m starting to think we were all too optimistic thinking Reich could replicate the philly offense. OL wasn’t bad but wasn’t great either. Luck was awful. We do need more playmakers. Should have traded for Gordon. It also won’t hurt to work out Dez. 

[DraftMaster]

13 hours ago, richard pallo said:

Plain and simple.  We need another offensive playmaker.  TY can't do it alone.  Our division is wide open.  Not to late to bring someone in.  

Le'veon Bell? 

[Colt.45]

59 minutes ago, krunk said:

Ebron dissapointed me a bit yesterday.

 

Yup. That was the Detroit Ebron. Dropping passes and just not asserting himself on the game. He was probably asked to block a bit more with Doyle gone but still, gotta show up.

[richard pallo]

18 minutes ago, DraftMaster said:

Le'veon Bell? 

Brilliant!

[DraftMaster]

3 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Brilliant!

I mean if we had him then the play action would be sick IMO

[richard pallo]

4 minutes ago, DraftMaster said:

I mean if we had him then the play action would be sick IMO

Not to mention him running behind Costanzo, Nelson and Kelly. 

[tikyle]

1. I disagree that play calling in the red zone was bad.  How many 1st down TD drops did we have this game?  After that our red zone offense went to crap on 2nd and 3rd downs.

 

2. The difference in the game was Philly could run the ball and we couldn't at all.  It was really that simple.  The game was close because of all the penalties and the 2 Philly TOs but we got out played this one we just made some great defensive plays to stay in it.

 

3. Luck is still rusty.  It's just that simple.  He missed Ebron deep and missed a couple of throws he would normally make.

[masterlock]

19 hours ago, Legend of Luck said:

I've seen a lot of differing view points here today, but I'd like to dive deeper into the struggles on offense.

 

1. Was it the playcalling? I know we had some suspect calls throughout the game, but was that the biggest issue all day? 

2. Was it sticking to an ineffective run game? 

3. Was it the offensive line?

4. Was it the receivers not getting separation?

5. Was it Luck making poor choices and being inaccurate?

6. Did the weather have any affect?

 

Not looking for everybody to answer all of these, just wanted to throw out questions that are on my mind to try to spark conversation and hopefully ease my mind, because I'm very nervous after watching this game. 

Try all of the above. They're just not fun to watch.