I Don't Get Argument For Rebuild

[Manning2Wayne]

the rebuild is done to prevent consistent loosing, so after one year, fans were upset with a loosing record , so the owner decides to rebuild which could result in sub par season,

assuming the record is the same or average, how is this satisifying the fans, short -term like this past season,

is the owner not really pushing colts fans to the limits, pessimesticly we could make the wild card play off game,

what if in his goal to become competitive within 3 -4 years doesnt come to fruition,

i feel like we have been cheated out of the greatest player to play the QB position

[ToJen1981]

Please retype OP in english.

[atapcl]

the rebuild is done to prevent consistent loosing, so after one year, fans were upset with a loosing record , so the owner decides to rebuild which could result in sub par season,

assuming the record is the same or average, how is this satisifying the fans, short -term like this past season,

is the owner not really pushing colts fans to the limits, pessimesticly we could make the wild card play off game,

what if in his goal to become competitive within 3 -4 years doesnt come to fruition,

i feel like we have been cheated out of the greatest player to play the QB position

Maybe it is just me but it seemed time to rebuild. One season was a ten win injury plagued year and the next year was a 2 win injury plagued year. It seemed the coaches were not getting the young players to play at a high level. Chris Polian was transitioning into power and causing internal strife. Bill Polian is getting up in age. It seemed like a good time to remove Chris and get someone who could bring in good players and run a more people friendly front office. It seemed like the time to bring in a new coaching staff that could posibly have ideas that would improve team performance. Lastly an opportunity to draft a player like Andrew does not come around very often. Making all these changes was not easy so I commend Jim Irsay for making the tough decisions to reload moreso than rebuild. Pagano is a coach that wants to win now and I believe he and Grigson will bring in as many good players as the draft and salary cap will allow to win the most games they can in 2012.

[Manning2Wayne]

this what makes me more upset, i love the hiring of our staff, to not combine the best of both worlds is just mind boggling

[WSO]

this what makes me more upset, i love the hiring of our staff, to not combine the best of both worlds is just mind boggling

Because there is a thing called the salary cap. Even if Manning came back, I've said this numerous times, this team is not going 14-2 and sweeping the division. Too many holes. With Luck, if we have 1 or 2 losing seasons, its not going to hurt us because we get more picks and the team potentially gets better. If Manning comes back and we have one or two losing seasons, now Manning has wasted 2 seasons chasing another SB when he could get one else where, especially on the back end of his career. Time is precious for him.

[ColtsPacersfan]

It was time to rebuild a long time ago. We was going nowhere and was going nowhere for a couple of years now. It should have been done a long time ago but it was not the case. Maybe if we started earlier maybe the Colts and Manning would not have departed. But who knows, if that would be the case. I do think things would have gotten worst if we kept the younger Polian in charge and the elder one was going to retire anyways and kept the lifeless coach in Caldwell. Yes things needed be changed in the Colts the system was broken and now its time for a new and better system that will work.

[Coltsman1788]

The inevitable drop off that would have ensued upon Peyton's departure 4 years from now has been escalated forward. This is because of Peyton's health situation and the fact that we are fortunate to be in a position to draft a prospect as highly regarded as Luck. Who knows what the situation would be four years from now. We are in position today and that is all that matters.

If Peyton stayed it is unlikely that the Colts would have won a Super Bowl as the team has too many holes. Peyton is getting older and so was the team around him. Best case scenarios of first round playoff exits for 1-2 more years is not worth delaying a chance to really retool this team in an effort to build a better rounded team who could be a contender for the next decade if all goes well. There are no guarantees of course. That is the risk inherent in all major decisions. Nevertheless, the Colts' thought process itself is sound whether it ultimately works out or not.

[Manning2Wayne]

Because there is a thing called the salary cap. Even if Manning came back, I've said this numerous times, this team is not going 14-2 and sweeping the division. Too many holes. With Luck, if we have 1 or 2 losing seasons, its not going to hurt us because we get more picks and the team potentially gets better. If Manning comes back and we have one or two losing seasons, now Manning has wasted 2 seasons chasing another SB when he could get one else where, especially on the back end of his career. Time is precious for him.

just talk objectively for a minute, manning had 1 loosing season, last year was not on him, u cannot make the argument with manning under center we would have another loosing season, we have had many many wholes for many years,

this is what does not make sense

[Fx Stryker]

just talk objectively for a minute, manning had 1 loosing season, last year was not on him, u cannot make the argument with manning under center we would have another loosing season, we have had many many wholes for many years,

this is what does not make sense

Two losing seasons, 1998 and 200. I still think we should have Manning though.

[coltsgoodin]

just talk objectively for a minute, manning had 1 loosing season, last year was not on him, u cannot make the argument with manning under center we would have another loosing season, we have had many many wholes for many years,

this is what does not make sense

Guess this means you're going to have to change your nickname, sorry about that buddy...

[WSO]

just talk objectively for a minute, manning had 1 loosing season, last year was not on him, u cannot make the argument with manning under center we would have another loosing season, we have had many many wholes for many years,

this is what does not make sense

No we didn't. This year Wayne, Gonzalez and Garcon are free agents, the Colts do not have a starter opposite of Powers, the safety position is injury prone, we still do not have a dominant DT, Diem and Saturday are potentially gone. Tamme is a free agent (who saved us in the 2010 season when Clark went down). Linkenbach is not good. Its a lot of holes. Some of these were evident last year (like when the Saints dropped 62 on us). Manning is great but he's not going to cover up EVERYTHING.

[19colt]

Coltsman put it well. Irsay is thinking long term here. He is betting that Luck will be an elite QB for the next 10-12 years while Peyton is commentating on MNF. I don't like it one bit but I guess we all have to come to grips with it.

[WoolMagnet]

I was surprised how irsay at one point kind of said we won't be very good for a few years. While this is very possible, I was surprised he mentioned it. It seemed like a sort of excuse as why manning should leave. I didn't like the "feel" of the thing.

What i took (how i perceived it) from the news conference was that perhaps Manning wanted to stay more than the team wanted him.

I'm just in shock even tho i expected it. Its gonna take a while to sink in.

I'm naive, but I was hoping we could have manning for 2 more (take the chance) with Luck as backup. It just didn't make sense i guess.

Manning is all class. Smart guy too. I hope he can play. I'll root for him.

The guy had a spark in his eye today. He doesn't want to retire. That single line spoke volumes. I wouldn't bet against him. Its just a shame (and a joke) that we couldn't work him out prior to decision time.

The bottom line is you know what? If our Colts ,behind Luck, would get beat by Peyton in the next couple years in a big playoff game I doubt I'd feel all that bad about things.

Peyton should have retired a Colt. Period.

Its a shame things don't always work out the way they should or we want.

[21isSuperman]

We have so many holes on the team that expecting a rookie to come in and cover up all the problems like Peyton did is just asking for trouble. Plus, the roster isn't very young and we have salary cap issues

[19colt]

We have so many holes on the team that expecting a rookie to come in and cover up all the problems like Peyton did is just asking for trouble. Plus, the roster isn't very young and we have salary cap issues

Peyton could have covered the holes enough to make the playoffs. Some will probably think I am high but I am very confident last years Colts with Peyton would have made it as far as the AFC Championship Game. Look how far they made it the year before with Blair White playing big minutes.

[deedub75]

It was time to rebuild a long time ago. We was going nowhere and was going nowhere for a couple of years now. It should have been done a long time ago but it was not the case. Maybe if we started earlier maybe the Colts and Manning would not have departed. But who knows, if that would be the case. I do think things would have gotten worst if we kept the younger Polian in charge and the elder one was going to retire anyways and kept the lifeless coach in Caldwell. Yes things needed be changed in the Colts the system was broken and now its time for a new and better system that will work.

I agree somewhat. Had we reloaded a few years ago we wouldn't have the need for a full rebuild now. I blame the Caldwell promotion on our troubles.

[21isSuperman]

Peyton could have covered the holes enough to make the playoffs. Some will probably think I am high but I am very confident last years Colts with Peyton would have made it as far as the AFC Championship Game. Look how far they made it the year before with Blair White playing big minutes.

With many players aging, their skills start to diminish. Sure, Peyton can get us to the playoffs, but when the playoffs start, it's completely different. Teams and coaches spend more time focusing on small details to give them an advantage. Peyton will be Peyton, but the defense was porous, WRs weren't that special, O-line was lacking, and coaching wasn't too great. With all these new coaches coming in and wanting to set up their own systems, how do we know if we would even be any good? Changing from a 4-3 to a 3-4 takes a lot of work and it is very likely our defense gets worse before it gets better.

[presto123]

Would you rather be good(but not great and no SB) for 2-3 more years or be mediocre for 2-3 years and great for a decade or more after that? That is the dice that Irsay is rolling and I for one applaud him. Will it pan out? Who knows. But a young Luck who can grow with the team is a great place to start. It is time to build this team right where we are not one dimensional and get younger and more talented on both sides of the ball. We were never built for the playoffs and most of the time it showed. I got so tired of being a regular season wonder but knowing more likely than not we would not live up to playoff expectations because of our weak defense and special teams. A more well rounded team with a great QB and I think we can start experiencing some of the great playoff success that teams like the Giants, Pats and Steelers have enjoyed. Too much was put on Peyton's shoulders and if he stayed now there just flat out isn't enough time to build this team the right way. I applaud Irsay for making the toughest of decisions not only with Manning but with Polian and Caldwell as well. He was willing to stand up and take the criticism now for the betterment of the franchise for years to come.

.

[Jaric]

What is there not to get? Have you not looked at our roster? Did you block last season out of your memory (if so, please relate how you manged to so the rest of us can as well)

[Phil J]

Have you not looked at our roster?

amazingly, some fans think we still have a SB caliber roster.

[jwilli69]

I am telling you all, we have some very good pieces on this team ready to bloom with Luck at the helm.

you have both offensive tackle spots with promising talent and a reasonable LG. Need to fix the RG and C spot which can be done, and must be done this year for the sake of Luck surviving. You still have Dallas Clark and we know he has been good in the previous years and Luck has grown accustomed to throwing to TE's. I think a priority has to be on either resigning Garcon (my preference) or signing a veteran WR on the market and pairing him with Austin Collie. You have an excellent PK and K for the special teams side. You have Powers, Bethea, Nevis, Mathis, Angerer, Freeney. The Pats got farther with a lot of no names playing fundamental defense and some really nice players on offense this past season and while I am not delusional enough to believe we will be in a SB this year, I do think we will be competitive in most games this next season with the additional draft picks this April. Everyone rebuilds at some point or another, it was overdue for us but we will be fine and if done right, and the coaching is as good as we had hoped for, it will be built quicker than in 3-4 years, 2 years should get us there IMO.

[Jaric]

amazingly, some fans think we still have a SB caliber roster.

With Peyton Manning we'd be lucky to go 8-8. And that doesn't do anyone any good.

[Jaric]

Jwilli, I'm not saying there aren't ANY good players on the team because that would be false.

But there is A LOT Of work that needs to be done before we can talk about winning superbowls.

[Phil J]

With Peyton Manning we'd be lucky to go 8-8. And that doesn't do anyone any good.

exactly. 8-8, possibly not even making a wildcard, and then he retires, and we have to draft a project cause we are picking in the middle of the pack.

[19colt]

Manning has carried the team for years, what makes you think he would not have done it again? Some of those teams were not very good and riddled with injuries yet the Colts STILL made the playoffs.

It is a simple equation #18 = Playoffs. We will all see it with his new team.

[kcusrotaredom]

the rebuild is done to prevent consistent loosing, so after one year, fans were upset with a loosing record , so the owner decides to rebuild which could result in sub par season,

assuming the record is the same or average, how is this satisifying the fans, short -term like this past season,

is the owner not really pushing colts fans to the limits, pessimesticly we could make the wild card play off game,

what if in his goal to become competitive within 3 -4 years doesnt come to fruition,

i feel like we have been cheated out of the greatest player to play the QB position

You obviously forgot about the previous 2010 season we struggled to 10-6 only because of Manning having to dig us out after our D allowed an easy touchdown. They showed the sideline cam of Manning putting his helmet back on almost exhausted with an expression of 'you got to be kidding me, i have to go back out already soooo soon?' we started 6-6 and Manning put the team on his back. We literally broke the camels back. It was a sign of rebuilding!

[JWF]

just talk objectively for a minute, manning had 1 loosing season, last year was not on him, u cannot make the argument with manning under center we would have another loosing season, we have had many many wholes for many years,

this is what does not make sense

How can you make the arguement we wouldnt be below .500 or be slightly above average? The team has been declining since Caldwell and Chris Polian took over Dungy and Bill's team. 14-2, 10-6, 2-14. Obviously Manning being out was the big reason for the losses last year but the lack of talent at certain positions and depth was glaring last year.

The team is also built for the old style and alot would be asked of Manning once again as the team transitioned to new schemes/philosophies. I wanted him back too and im sad he's gone but its not the worst thing for the Colts or Peyton. I think he will have a better shot with another team to get a ring.

[Peytongirl]

scorched earth policy never works...you rebuild is stages

complete change from the ground up - on field and front office?

great set up!

[Corndog]

Alot of good posts here, especially pointing out the holes in this team, the 2010 season with Manning carrying this team on his back and barely making the playoffs. I also agree, if done right, this team could have rebuilt without even really showing. Unfortunately 5 years of failed drafts and this is where the team stands. There are a few players that have been successfully drafted in those years, but not enough. Which is why the Polians were fired and almost everyone agreed Irsay made the right call. Let's also remember there are alot of free agents on this team this year and this team is too close to the salary cap. Some of those players are looking to get raises, so at the end of the day if this team didn't go into rebuild mode it would spend more money to stay about the same and have no space to improve. This was the right call for the future and really not even the distant future. Once Manning was done this team would be horrible, now atleast this team will be better than last year.

[JWF]

Manning has carried the team for years, what makes you think he would not have done it again? Some of those teams were not very good and riddled with injuries yet the Colts STILL made the playoffs.

It is a simple equation #18 = Playoffs. We will all see it with his new team.

What makes you think its that cut and dry? This team appears to be even worse/older than the teams Manning has carried in the past. The last time we made the playoffs the team had to go on a 4 game win streak in which they barely beat a bunch of average teams and rely on a weak division to get in.

The other part of the equation is the Texans are good and will be better next season with Schaub or even Leinart healthy. The AFC north will also be very strong again and could potentially field 3 playoff teams again. There's no guarantee of playoffs even if Manning had come back. A SB really seems like a dream. Even if the team had traded down too those picks will take time to develop. They may not even be ready to make a big enough impact until Manning is set to retire.

[colts89]

the rebuild is done to prevent consistent loosing, so after one year, fans were upset with a loosing record , so the owner decides to rebuild which could result in sub par season,

assuming the record is the same or average, how is this satisifying the fans, short -term like this past season,

is the owner not really pushing colts fans to the limits, pessimesticly we could make the wild card play off game,

what if in his goal to become competitive within 3 -4 years doesnt come to fruition,

i feel like we have been cheated out of the greatest player to play the QB position

the rebuild is done to prevent consistent loosing, so after one year, fans were upset with a loosing record , so the owner decides to rebuild which could result in sub par season,

assuming the record is the same or average, how is this satisifying the fans, short -term like this past season,

is the owner not really pushing colts fans to the limits, pessimesticly we could make the wild card play off game,

what if in his goal to become competitive within 3 -4 years doesnt come to fruition,

i feel like we have been cheated out of the greatest player to play the QB position

Cheated? we had him for 14 years?

I think of the whole situation as a bridge. Manning was a undestructable truss that always held on to many pieces of the bridge. Although there were some good pieces, the amount of bad pieces and the way that they were put together always hurt and gave a burden to the truss, and it made it so that we didn't have the best "bridge" in the league. We could continue on with the final years of the truss and see if it could squeeze us a championship (highly unlikely chance). Or we could part ways with the truss, find new and better pieces to be put together by a expert engineer (Pagano and Grigson), and draft a new truss that has the potential to get on the same level as the old one.

[gacker65]

the rebuild is done to prevent consistent loosing, so after one year, fans were upset with a loosing record , so the owner decides to rebuild which could result in sub par season,

assuming the record is the same or average, how is this satisifying the fans, short -term like this past season,

is the owner not really pushing colts fans to the limits, pessimesticly we could make the wild card play off game,

what if in his goal to become competitive within 3 -4 years doesnt come to fruition,

i feel like we have been cheated out of the greatest player to play the QB position

I will give you the 2 most likely scenerios to answer your question.

1. It is the "Perfect Storm". Peyton gets hurt, the Colts get the #1 overall pick in the draft and Luck is the so-called best QB out there. What the proponents of this theory forgot is that in the movie, the ship sank.

2. This is my opinion, Irsay's ego says he can beat the rebuild jinx. NFL history show that if you go into full rebuild mode, your are putting your franchise in purgatory. As PeytonGirl so aptly stated, "Scorched earth" does not work. That is proven fact (i.e. Lions, Rams, Buccaneers and others).

[dlsimon]

2. This is my opinion, Irsay's ego says he can beat the rebuild jinx. NFL history show that if you go into full rebuild mode, your are putting your franchise in purgatory. As PeytonGirl so aptly stated, "Scorched earth" does not work. That is proven fact (i.e. Lions, Rams, Buccaneers and others).

Perhaps not the Rams or Bucs, but the Lions are on the up and up currently after their recent rebuild.

In the end, it wasn't the Bonus or questions about Peyton's playability post-surgery that brought about today's decision. This is about the numerous holes that need to be filled that were made very evident with Peyton out this year. I think it was a very big wake up call for Irsay; he probably realized we had various issues (most teams have something that want to fix), but the extent of those issues weren't realized until we saw what happened throughout the season. If Peyton was retained plus we kept the #1 pick, we wouldn't have enough salary cap room to make substantial movement in fixing those issues.

I've been wishing all along that they would find room in the salary cap to keep Manning and also take Luck - a little Manning mentorship to a (hopefully) future star. But in the end, the multiple issues with the rest of the team were too great to ignore.

This is a sad, depressing day for Colts fans, but ultimately the best call given the situation. That darn salary cap which helps make the sport more even-sided and interesting amongst teams shows its bad side today in Indy.

[chrisfarley]

I'm afraid Peyton is going to come back and kick our butts and he will do it in his favorite place of all time , LOS. UGH!!!!!!!

[gacker65]

Perhaps not the Rams or Bucs, but the Lions are on the up and up currently after their recent rebuild.

In the end, it wasn't the Bonus or questions about Peyton's playability post-surgery that brought about today's decision. This is about the numerous holes that need to be filled that were made very evident with Peyton out this year. I think it was a very big wake up call for Irsay; he probably realized we had various issues (most teams have something that want to fix), but the extent of those issues weren't realized until we saw what happened throughout the season. If Peyton was retained plus we kept the #1 pick, we wouldn't have enough salary cap room to make substantial movement in fixing those issues.

I've been wishing all along that they would find room in the salary cap to keep Manning and also take Luck - a little Manning mentorship to a (hopefully) future star. But in the end, the multiple issues with the rest of the team were too great to ignore.

This is a sad, depressing day for Colts fans, but ultimately the best call given the situation. That darn salary cap which helps make the sport more even-sided and interesting amongst teams shows its bad side today in Indy.

I agree that there is a lot of holes to fill on the team, but that is not going to happen. By cutting Peyton, the franchise now only has to options in the draft:

1. They draft Luck and offense heavy for next 3-4 years to help him along. Problem is no Defensive help.

2. Draft Luck and have a balanced draft. The only thing wrong with this is that in 4-5 years Luck becomes another David Carr.

If we would have restructured Peyton's contract, we could have drafted balanced and not had as big as worry.

As for my comparision with the Rams and Bucs, I stand by that. I remember theT late 60s-today, except for a couple years hear and there, both those franchises have been in rebuild mode. There other franchises that go in and out of rebuild mode, and you prbably know you I am talking about.

The unfortunate thing about this is I have been stating these options since I started posting earlier in the year and no one believed me. I had hoped things would come out differently.

[deedub75]

I will give you the 2 most likely scenerios to answer your question.

1. It is the "Perfect Storm". Peyton gets hurt, the Colts get the #1 overall pick in the draft and Luck is the so-called best QB out there. What the proponents of this theory forgot is that in the movie, the ship sank.

2. This is my opinion, Irsay's ego says he can beat the rebuild jinx. NFL history show that if you go into full rebuild mode, your are putting your franchise in purgatory. As PeytonGirl so aptly stated, "Scorched earth" does not work. That is proven fact (i.e. Lions, Rams, Buccaneers and others).

Irsay stated at the presser that we are not going to be very good for the next 2-3 years.

[deedub75]

What's really funny is that a lot of people on this board were saying we could go 8-8 without Manning last year.......

[jskinnz]

this what makes me more upset, i love the hiring of our staff, to not combine the best of both worlds is just mind boggling

Frankly I don't know what is so difficult to comprehend. The Colts have a roster full of holes and the people that have given the Colts their identity over the last decade are getting older. As Irsay said yesterday, they are at least a couple of years down the road from having a roster they think they can compete with again. They have a dire need to get younger. To me it makes no sense to rebuild the roster and have a 38-39 year-old QB at the helm. The time is now to start the process again and go forward with a young QB who will hopefully mature into the player they think he can right about the time the team gets a much needed boost of talent.

Kind of reminds of a time, not so long ago. I remember it like it was 1998...

[jskinnz]

I agree that there is a lot of holes to fill on the team, but that is not going to happen. By cutting Peyton, the franchise now only has to options in the draft:

1. They draft Luck and offense heavy for next 3-4 years to help him along. Problem is no Defensive help.

2. Draft Luck and have a balanced draft. The only thing wrong with this is that in 4-5 years Luck becomes another David Carr.

If we would have restructured Peyton's contract, we could have drafted balanced and not had as big as worry.

As for my comparision with the Rams and Bucs, I stand by that. I remember theT late 60s-today, except for a couple years hear and there, both those franchises have been in rebuild mode. There other franchises that go in and out of rebuild mode, and you prbably know you I am talking about.

The unfortunate thing about this is I have been stating these options since I started posting earlier in the year and no one believed me. I had hoped things would come out differently.

Am I wrong on this but will the Colts still draft players after the take Luck?

[04DarkShadowGT]

We have so many holes on the team that expecting a rookie to come in and cover up all the problems like Peyton did is just asking for trouble. Plus, the roster isn't very young and we have salary cap issues

Who is asking Luck to cover up the holes in the team? Anyone should understands that isnt going to happen. I havent really seen any Luck supporters saying he is going to be awesome next year, he may be ok but the team will not be good. I think 8-8 is absolute best case scenario and to me that is wishful thinking, I say cut that in half.

My honest opinion is we are a 3-5 win team with Luck and an 7-10 win team with Peyton. We just aren't very good alot of places and what we do have is just getting older and more injury prone. Nearly all of our best guys are really old (manning, wayne, clark, freeney, mathis, saturday, brackett, etc)