Hines Was A Definite Miss.....

[NewColtsFan]

11 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

I call him a “luxury” pick

 

11 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

I call him a “luxury” pick

 

I don't know why......

 

A team like the Colts needs all the talent we can get.  

 

 

[PrincetonTiger]

2 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

 

I don't know why......

 

A team like the Colts needs all the talent we can get.  

 

 

 I called him a “luxury” pick because it wasn’t at a position of need and the pick was not the Colts to begin with

[chrisfarley]

24 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Banner being drafted at the bottom of the 4th was not a reach.

 

He was projected by many to get drafted higher, or right around where he went.    I didn't see anyone project him to go in the 5th or later.     

 

I think this talk of "reach" is a little revisionist history.

 

 

i just remember him being more of a risk due to weight problems and both hips having been surgically repaired, calling it a reach was me just poorly articulating my thoughts.  Wouldn't be the first time ;)

[NewColtsFan]

39 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

 I called him a “luxury” pick because it wasn’t at a position of need and the pick was not the Colts to begin with

Huh?    

 

Offensive line wasn’t a position of need?!?    Since when?

 

[NewColtsFan]

46 minutes ago, chrisfarley said:

i just remember him being more of a risk due to weight problems and both hips having been surgically repaired, calling it a reach was me just poorly articulating my thoughts.  Wouldn't be the first time ;)

 

As I’m sure you figured out a long time ago, my mind often works in mysterious ways.    But wanted to share with you that your post might be my favorite of the day!

 

Thanks!        

 

[PrincetonTiger]

22 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Huh?    

 

Offensive line wasn’t a position of need?!?    Since when?

 

You had a line of AC, JM, RK, JH, DG, and LC before the draft

[NewColtsFan]

12 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

You had a line of AC, JM, RK, JH, DG, and LC before the draft

 

And that line wasn’t very good.   That’s why Ballard spent picks 6 & 37 on a pair of guards.

 

All 32 NFL Teams always feel they can never have enough offensive lineman. They always want more.  

 

One year ago, after the draft, did you really post here that you didn’t understand why we drafted an OL?   That you were satisfied with what we had?     I sure didn’t.     I hope you didn’t as well...

 

[nyyankeechris]

UGHHHHH.....please just stop with this "Hines should be....is gonna be....needs to be cut" Crapola.  

Hines IS not, and SHOULD not be cut.  (closes book) The end.

 

Rookie RB - who coaches have plans to be highly involved in our spread offense, and on top of it after only 3 preseason games...…..LORD have mercy....smdh

[Superman]

6 hours ago, BeanDiasucci said:

Yeah, but I would argue that Wilkins is more elusive than Hines, as well as more powerful. They need to get Hines the ball in space so he can just outrun people. 

 

I don't even think he's as fast as people seem to believe. 

[NewColtsFan]

2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I don't even think he's as fast as people seem to believe. 

 

4.38 isn’t fast?

 

That would seem to be pretty fast to mist people.     I appreciate that none of us have actually seen it put to good use yet...    but that doesn’t mean Hines isn’t plenty fast...

 

[Architects08]

3 hours ago, dodsworth said:

Getting hit at the line of scrimmage and still gaining positive

yards is a good quality to have in a back. Running with the 

3rd and 4th string also means running behind 3rd string 

O linemen.

What did he do with the first team against SF?  Listen im not trying to bash Wilkins and I hope he turns into a player, but you get what you pay for. More often than not late round RBs dont pan out. 

 

At this point hes no better than old man Gore. 

[DougDew]

Reach or not, most people thought Banner was a questionable pick at the time due to weight and other concerns.  I distinctly remember the folks who supported the pick were defending it by attributing the pick to Joe Philbin and his wonderful ability to mold him.  Even those folks who publicly supported the pick seemed to be basing it on a condition.

[dodsworth]

7 hours ago, SanDiegoColt8 said:

What did he do with the first team against SF?  Listen im not trying to bash Wilkins and I hope he turns into a player, but you get what you pay for. More often than not late round RBs dont pan out. 

 

At this point hes no better than old man Gore. 

Ballard is drafting the way he should by linemen and defense first. 

 

Would you give up Nelson, Leonard

Or Braden Smith for a pick at RB, or even Turay or Tyquan Lewis?

[Superman]

10 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

4.38 isn’t fast?

 

That would seem to be pretty fast to mist people.     I appreciate that none of us have actually seen it put to good use yet...    but that doesn’t mean Hines isn’t plenty fast...

 

 

He didn't even look that fast in college. I don't expect him to look or play that fast in the NFL. We all know there's a difference between track speed and game speed. 

[aaron11]

2 hours ago, dodsworth said:

Ballard is drafting the way he should by linemen and defense first. 

 

Would you give up Nelson, Leonard

Or Braden Smith for a pick at RB, or even Turay or Tyquan Lewis?

yes to turay and lewis 

[A8bil]

11 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

4.38 isn’t fast?

 

That would seem to be pretty fast to mist people.     I appreciate that none of us have actually seen it put to good use yet...    but that doesn’t mean Hines isn’t plenty fast...

 

Fast?  The 40 time is more about quick, not fast... .  I don't think Hines is that fast.  If you watch college highlights, he wasn't outrunning defenders in the way Jahvid Best, or CJ Spiller did.  As fast as most DBs?  I would agree with that.

 

That said, being a RB is more than just speed.  Look at what Taiwan Jones has done in his career.  Spoiler alert:  Nothing.  He's far faster than Hines (and quicker) but just not much of a RB.  Speed without shiftiness or the ability to read and use blocks really doesn't get a RB very far. 

[Architects08]

5 hours ago, dodsworth said:

Ballard is drafting the way he should by linemen and defense first. 

 

Would you give up Nelson, Leonard

Or Braden Smith for a pick at RB, or even Turay or Tyquan Lewis?

I am 100% fine with Nelson in the 1st. Would have preferred to stay at 3 and take Chubb especially considering what we did with our 2nd round picks.

 

At the time I would have rather had a RB (Guice or Royce Freeman) over every one of our 2nd round picks. Im happy with Leonard though. Turay and Lewis were big reaches imo.  

[NewColtsFan]

7 hours ago, A8bil said:

Fast?  The 40 time is more about quick, not fast... .  I don't think Hines is that fast.  If you watch college highlights, he wasn't outrunning defenders in the way Jahvid Best, or CJ Spiller did.  As fast as most DBs?  I would agree with that.

 

That said, being a RB is more than just speed.  Look at what Taiwan Jones has done in his career.  Spoiler alert:  Nothing.  He's far faster than Hines (and quicker) but just not much of a RB.  Speed without shiftiness or the ability to read and use blocks really doesn't get a RB very far. 

 

Sorry, but the world doesn’t exist where 4.38 isn’t fast.     You can run 4.5 and be quick.    4.38 is a top-10 40 time at any combine.

 

Also regarding Hines....   not sure if you and others in this thread are even aware, but his first year of being a full time RB was last year in college.   Otherwise he played mostly WR with a little RB thrown in.   So he’s still very much learning how to be a RB and he’s doing it on the job in the NFL.

 

@Superman also questioned his speed. Well...   in Hines’ first year as a full time RB not only did he run for more than 1100 yards, Hines also ran for TDS  of 83, 54, 50, and 48 yards.

 

And people here are questioning his speed.   Shaking my damn head.  That’s flat out terrible analysis...

 

 

 

[Superman]

@NewColtsFan

 

I didn't say Hines isn't fast. I suggested his speed has come to be overrated on this forum. That's based on watching him play in pads, not watching him run on a track in shorts. 

[NewColtsFan]

12 minutes ago, Superman said:

@NewColtsFan

 

I didn't say Hines isn't fast. I suggested his speed has come to be overrated on this forum. That's based on watching him play in pads, not watching him run on a track in shorts. 

 

Well...    when he played in pads he ran for over 1100 yards including TDs of 83, 54, 50 and 48 yards.

 

All in his first year as a full time RB.   So I don’t know what tape you saw or perhaps didn’t see.....

 

[MacDee1975]

9 hours ago, aaron11 said:

yes to turay and lewis 

 

lol....I was gonna say the same thing.

 

I'd switch out Turay or Lewis for a rb in a heartbeat.  Turay is Basham 2.0;  Lewis, if he's even any good, smells like someone who will be injured quite a bit....call him Good 2.0.

 

There are quite a few Ballard early round draft picks i'd like to switch out, as a matter of fact.

[Indyfan4life]

How about we just wait and see how he does during actual games. 

[BeanDiasucci]

40 minutes ago, Indyfan4life said:

How about we just wait and see how he does during actual games. 

 

Yes! And, on the bright side, there's been all this worry about a few fumbled punts, but punt returns may turn out to not even be a thing with the way the Colts first-string defense plays against the run. 

[southwest1]

Whew! This thread is exhausting. I do admire Jared remaining steadfast in the face of opposition that Hines needs to be cut though despite the fact that I think such a move would be premature. While it is true that Tiki Barber did fix his fumbling issue as well as Adrian Pederson, whatever you struggled with in college, you tend to carry with you at the next level normally.

 

Good coaching can resolve it in most cases, but every once in awhile, guys can't shake the mental fear that they're gonna cough up the rock on game day. It happens more than most fans would care to admit. I'm concerned even leery, but I'll bite my tongue for now.

 

Don't slam @Jared Cisneros too much. I respect that he vigorously defends his position even if other posters think he's severely misguided. Very few can do that. Stand their ground when the majority of folks believe you're crazy, it's a lost cause, & gladly go down with the ship. I like rebels myself because I'm cut from the same cloth as well I guess.

 

Anyway, life goes on...What was the topic about again? I forget. Just kidding!

[A8bil]

2 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Well...    when he played in pads he ran for over 1100 yards including TDs of 83, 54, 50 and 48 yards.

 

All in his first year as a full time RB.   So I don’t know what tape you saw or perhaps didn’t see.....

 

 

2 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Sorry, but the world doesn’t exist where 4.38 isn’t fast.     You can run 4.5 and be quick.    4.38 is a top-10 40 time at any combine.

 

Also regarding Hines....   not sure if you and others in this thread are even aware, but his first year of being a full time RB was last year in college.   Otherwise he played mostly WR with a little RB thrown in.   So he’s still very much learning how to be a RB and he’s doing it on the job in the NFL.

 

@Superman also questioned his speed. Well...   in Hines’ first year as a full time RB not only did he run for more than 1100 yards, Hines also ran for TDS  of 83, 54, 50, and 48 yards.

 

And people here are questioning his speed.   Shaking my damn head.  That’s flat out terrible analysis...

 

 

 

Well, if you don't understand the difference between fast and quick, and that the 40 measures quickness more than pure speed, I don't know how to help you.  You're just misinformed.  I have friends who ran D1 track and in multiple Olympics who were maybe 4.5 40 guys, but on the track were among the fastest runners in the world.  They were fast, not necessarily quick.  But they always beat the "quick" guys who got out of the blocks fast, but had lower top speed.  

 

That said, your entire argument is based on a straw man.  I said he's as fast as the DBs on the field, which is fast enough for a RB that has skills.  In fact, there are plenty of 4.5 40 guys who get long TD runs every year.  Speed is not the issue, as much as you want to make it that.

 

My point, which you ignored, is that speed without RB skills is fairly useless, Taiwan Jones being a prime example.  Taiwan Jones crushed the competition in college, but he's done nothing in the NFL despite being measurably faster (and quicker) than Hines.  Constantly referring to long runs Hines may have had in college doesn't bolster your argument any more.  the talent at the NFL level is a huge jump...runs that might go for big yards in college get shut down in the pros.  So, back at ya..terrible analysis friend.

[Two_pound]

I'll throw in another comparison for those of you on here old enough to remember former first round pick Curtis Dickey. Extremely fast, numerous long runs at Texas A&M, but he just couldn't grasp the pro game. In my opinion, he basically had no running back "skills". I think Hines is way ahead of where Dickey was his rookie year(that's a good thing). Give Hines some time, he wasn't brought in here to be the feature back

[NewColtsFan]

17 minutes ago, A8bil said:

 

Well, if you don't understand the difference between fast and quick, and that the 40 measures quickness more than pure speed, I don't know how to help you.  You're just misinformed.  I have friends who ran D1 track and in multiple Olympics who were maybe 4.5 40 guys, but on the track were among the fastest runners in the world.  They were fast, not necessarily quick.  But they always beat the "quick" guys who got out of the blocks fast, but had lower top speed.  

 

That said, your entire argument is based on a straw man.  I said he's as fast as the DBs on the field, which is fast enough for a RB that has skills.  In fact, there are plenty of 4.5 40 guys who get long TD runs every year.  Speed is not the issue, as much as you want to make it that.

 

My point, which you ignored, is that speed without RB skills is fairly useless, Taiwan Jones being a prime example.  Taiwan Jones crushed the competition in college, but he's done nothing in the NFL despite being measurably faster (and quicker) than Hines.  Constantly referring to long runs Hines may have had in college doesn't bolster your argument any more.  the talent at the NFL level is a huge jump...runs that might go for big yards in college get shut down in the pros.  So, back at ya..terrible analysis friend.

 

I don’t know why you think I’m the one who doesn’t understand the difference?

 

I just explained it to you.   You chose to ignore it.     So I’ll try again.    In football terms,  speed  is one direction — forward.    Quickness is all directions.  Left, right, forward and back.

 

The fact the some sprinters are great for 40 yards, but can’t maintain it for 100 yards is NOT the difference between being quick and fast.   That’s a complete lack of understanding.

 

As is the notion that you have multiple friends who ran in multiple Olympics, who, according to you, were “maybe 4.5 guys.”    Im sorry,  but whether you believe it or not,  it’s 100 percent false.   Not even a little bit true.   

 

So at this point you and I are going to have to agree to disagree.   We see this differently.

 

Good luck to you....

 

[Alex22]

On 8/27/2018 at 10:48 PM, Shadow_Creek said:

I gave Hines a pass after the first game because maybe it was just jitters he had which can be understandable playing in your fist NFL game, bright lights, being on the big stage, i mean it could cause anyone to freeze or even fumble a few times like he did. However after these last two games it is clear CB missed when he selected Hines which is kind of disappointing since he has lots of speed and looked like a mismatch from his college film. Now i did read an article stating that Hines had seven fumbles during his college career which sounds a little red flagish but could have easily been coached out of him. Although i fear the hand writing is on the wall and he most definitely wont last on this team. So i really hope CB is able to draft Bryce love in next years draft or find a more decent back to complement Mack and Turbin.

 

Never liked the pick, but it is way too early to judge any of them.

 

Wait until at least next offseason to say any kind of statement like this. 

[SteelCityColt]

2 hours ago, southwest1 said:

Whew! This thread is exhausting. I do admire Jared remaining steadfast in the face of opposition that Hines needs to be cut though despite the fact that I think such a move would be premature. While it is true that Tiki Barber did fix his fumbling issue as well as Adrian Pederson, whatever you struggled with in college, you tend to carry with you at the next level normally.

 

Good coaching can resolve it in most cases, but every once in awhile, guys can't shake the mental fear that they're gonna cough up the rock on game day. It happens more than most fans would care to admit. I'm concerned even leery, but I'll bite my tongue for now.

 

Don't slam @Jared Cisneros too much. I respect that he vigorously defends his position even if other posters think he's severely misguided. Very few can do that. Stand their ground when the majority of folks believe you're crazy, it's a lost cause, & gladly go down with the ship. I like rebels myself because I'm cut from the same cloth as well I guess.

 

Anyway, life goes on...What was the topic about again? I forget. Just kidding!

 

Being resolute is admirable, refusing point blank to listen to other viewpoints and getting abrasive.. not so much. Doubly so when you’ve taken an absolute position based on flawed information. 

[Superman]

4 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Well...    when he played in pads he ran for over 1100 yards including TDs of 83, 54, 50 and 48 yards.

 

All in his first year as a full time RB.   So I don’t know what tape you saw or perhaps didn’t see.....

 

 

Why are you acting like I said he has lead feet? This is a major overreaction.

[NewColtsFan]

14 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Why are you acting like I said he has lead feet? This is a major overreaction.

 

Well....    I agree there is an over reaction here....    I just don’t agree who has commited it.

 

This seems like a good point to agree to disagree and move on....

 

[Dark Superman]

Did you not see all the huge holes he missed during the 49ers? Dude literally had nowhere to go. Give him a little space and watch what he can do.

 

He's a rookie who has one TC and 3 Preseason games under his belt. Relax.

[braveheartcolt]

Ouch. This thread is degenerating badly. I'm outta here fast. Or should it be quickly? With speed? Oh, I don't know....

[SteelCityColt]

9 minutes ago, braveheartcolt said:

Ouch. This thread is degenerating badly. I'm outta here fast. Or should it be quickly? With speed? Oh, I don't know....

 

I think you’re a bit quick to judge, or are you just shifty? 

[SteelCityColt]

3 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I don’t know why you think I’m the one who doesn’t understand the difference?

 

I just explained it to you.   You chose to ignore it.     So I’ll try again.    In football terms,  speed  is one direction — forward.    Quickness is all directions.  Left, right, forward and back.

 

The fact the some sprinters are great for 40 yards, but can’t maintain it for 100 yards is NOT the difference between being quick and fast.   That’s a complete lack of understanding.

 

As is the notion that you have multiple friends who ran in multiple Olympics, who, according to you, were “maybe 4.5 guys.”    Im sorry,  but whether you believe it or not,  it’s 100 percent false.   Not even a little bit true.   

 

So at this point you and I are going to have to agree to disagree.   We see this differently.

 

Good luck to you....

 

 

If I may offer an outside perspective, this very much seems to be a disagreement about semantics.

 

Yes, if you run a low time in the 40 it’s a valid a assumption you’d have a high top speed, being “fast” in the above. However the 40 is much more a measure of acceleration vs top end speed (which IMO is more important in football). Although there are formulae for extrapolating a 100M time from a 40 time there is variance from person to person. For example I’d kill people over a 60M when I was younger but would struggle in the 100M. I was “quick” without being “fast”.

 

I agree with your point too that people who look fast on the football field as well as having acceleration and speed also have the agility to make the cuts on a dime. If it was just about sprinting ability then you’d see people like Demps becoming stars.

 

 

[Pacergeek]

Here's the thing with Hines. In pre-season, he is playing against worse players. Much lower level of competition. If he sucks this bad with these circumstances, how can he be any good during regular season intensity. Has there ever been a RB that was ineffective during pre-season, and magically improved for regular season

[SteelCityColt]

Following on to the above conversation about fast vs quick, here’s a decent analysis that includes looking at at NFL player who have a recorded 100 time:

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/3e1vfa/ochow_40yard_dash_result_translated_to_100_sprint/

 

[PrincetonTiger]

18 minutes ago, Pacergeek said:

Here's the thing with Hines. In pre-season, he is playing against worse players. Much lower level of competition. If he sucks this bad with these circumstances, how can he be any good during regular season intensity. Has there ever been a RB that was ineffective during pre-season, and magically improved for regular season

Just like he is playing against “inferior” players he is playing with them too

[MikeCurtis]

On 8/28/2018 at 11:26 PM, nyyankeechris said:

UGHHHHH.....please just stop with this "Hines should be....is gonna be....needs to be cut" Crapola.  

Hines IS not, and SHOULD not be cut.  (closes book) The end.

 

I would agree....... BUT  , "gonna be" MAY still happen (maybe not now)

 

IF Hines gets his feet under him, and starts to contribute at a high level...... put me on the Hines train......  I hope that he works out

 

The reality is, Hines hasnt shown anything so far, in the preseason..... I was hoping for more

 

If you watch his college tape, he had some amazing runs. I would like to see some of THAT guy.....

 

We will see how it turns out

 

 

 

[PrincetonTiger]

22 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

I would agree....... BUT  , "gonna be" MAY still happen (maybe not now)

 

IF Hines gets his feet under him, and starts to contribute at a high level...... put me on the Hines train......  I hope that he works out

 

The reality is, Hines hasnt shown anything so far, in the preseason..... I was hoping for more

 

If you watch his college tape, he had some amazing runs. I would like to see some of THAT guy.....

 

We will see how it turns out

 

 

 

In the preseason so Hines has a been a square peg being forced into a circle hole by bannan peels