Hines Was A Definite Miss.....

[Jason_]

27 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

After 3 preseason games? 

 

Im not sure I’m quite ready to give up on him yet. UK Colt Page 1

 

Hoose page 2 comparing Hines to Tiki Barber

 

Krunk page 2 saying he will be fine

 

NCF on page 2 and 3 saying it's too soon

 

CR91 blaming the % of the playbook we used with him on page 3

 

Sorry I can't quote, when i do and go to a different page, it erases my quotes. These are just examples on the first 3 pages.

 

3 of the quotes you provided do not show someone ignoring facts.  Exhibiting patience is not ignoring facts.  The comparison to Tiki Barber was simply to mention that Tiki also had a fumbling problem at one time and just needed the right coach to teach him better fundamentals and once that happened, the fumbling stopped...so the comparison was simply to show that it is possible for a player to get over a case of fumble-itis.

 

So at MOST you have 2 members who's responses may indicate that they're "ignoring facts".  

[Jason_]

26 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I'm going to post one last thing on this subject and I'm not responding to anything else on this particular thread. Isn't it possible with the evidence of how bad Hines has been, that he's just a bust? That he's just not very good? He's a 4th round pick. It's not like Nelson struggled early and I called him a bust. This is a mid round pick who has almost 0 positive production, and a lot of negative production.

 

I'm not criticizing Ballard for probably missing on him, that will happen. I just am looking at this from a logic standpoint that he is completely outmatched and probably won't have any use on our team or any other when it gets down to 53 players. 

 

Of course it is possible.  The only point that most of the members in this thread are trying desperately to make is that right now it is way too soon to determine that he definitely is or definitely is not a bust.

[NewColtsFan]

22 minutes ago, J@son said:

 

3 of the quotes you provided do not show someone ignoring facts.  Exhibiting patience is not ignoring facts.  The comparison to Tiki Barber was simply to mention that Tiki also had a fumbling problem at one time and just needed the right coach to teach him better fundamentals and once that happened, the fumbling stopped...so the comparison was simply to show that it is possible for a player to get over a case of fumble-itis.

 

So at MOST you have 2 members who's responses may indicate that they're "ignoring facts".  

 

All you need to say...  

 

“I hate running backs who fumble, so I’m disappointed in Hines.   But I realize it’s way too soon to give up on a player who the front office and coaching staff believe in.”

 

There it is....   that’s all you had to say...    instead you had to twist and distort and get into fights with as many different posters as possible.

 

Take a different approach and perhaps  you’ll get better results?   Just some food for thought....

 

[Jason_]

Just now, NewColtsFan said:

 

All you need to say...  

 

“I hate running backs who fumble, so I’m disapoointed in Hines.   But I realize it’s way too soon to give up on a player who the front office and coaching staff believe in.”

 

There it is....   that’s all you had to say...    instead you had to twist and distort and get into fights with as many different posters as possible.

 

Take a different approach and perhaps  you’ll get better results?   Just some food for thought....

 

 

 

I'm thinking maybe you quoted the wrong person? lol

[NewColtsFan]

52 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I'm going to post one last thing on this subject and I'm not responding to anything else on this particular thread. Isn't it possible with the evidence of how bad Hines has been, that he's just a bust? That he's just not very good? He's a 4th round pick. It's not like Nelson struggled early and I called him a bust. This is a mid round pick who has almost 0 positive production, and a lot of negative production.

 

I'm not criticizing Ballard for probably missing on him, that will happen. I just am looking at this from a logic standpoint that he is completely outmatched and probably won't have any use on our team or any other when it gets down to 53 players. 

Dear God!    OF COURSE ITS POSSIBLE THAT HINES SUCKS!   No one has argued otherwise!   Yours is a classic Strawman argument.   Come on now!

 

But no one knows.   So Ballard has the final call and he’s got to use his best judgement.   Could Hines get cut this weekend?   Sure.   But it’s not likely. 

 

And that’s all that matters. 

 

Responsible GMs don’t cut disappointing rookies unless the player has a BAD attitude and effort.   That doesn’t appear to be the case with Hines.

 

Give the kid a chance to prove you  right or wrong.   Three pre-season games is not a fair chance. 

 

Edited August 28, 2018 by SteelCityColt

[Architects08]

If it wasnt for our severe lack of RB talent id say Hines is 100% getting cut (and he should be). He was an awful pick in the 4th round and it was a mistake to wait until then to draft a RB.  

[PrincetonTiger]

George Bremer feels that Michael is the RB on the Turbin Bubble

[PrincetonTiger]

59 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Dear God!    OF COURSE ITS POSSIBLE THAT HINES SUCKS!   No one has argued otherwise!   Yours is a classic Strawman argument.   Come on now!

 

But no one knows.   So Ballard has the final call and he’s got to use his best judgement.   Could Hines get cut this weekend?   Sure.   But it’s not likely. 

 

And that’s all that matters. 

 

Responsible GMs don’t cut disappointing rookies unless the player has a BAD attitude and effort.   That doesn’t appear to be the case with Hines.

 

Give the kid a chance to prove you  right or wrong.   Three pre-season games is not a fair chance. 

 

 The only other time a drafted rookie would get released are if they are a Luxury Pick

[jvan1973]

2 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

 The only other time a drafted rookie would get released are if they are a Luxury Pick

Zach Banner was a 4th round pick cut last year

[#12.]

After Ballard cut Banner he said that if you're going to preach competition, you have to live it.  

 

Three weeks into preseason is far to early to say Hines should be cut, but four weeks isn't?  I'm certainly not convinced he makes it.  

[Farns01]

27 minutes ago, #12. said:

After Ballard cut Banner he said that if you're going to preach competition, you have to live it.  

 

Three weeks into preseason is far to early to say Hines should be cut, but four weeks isn't?  I'm certainly not convinced he makes it.  

 

We are being told Frank hasn’t opened the playbook yet and won’t until the regular season.  Hines is expected to benefit most when that happens.  So you want hamper the team before the season starts.  From what I have seen in preseason Hines has been used very little in the passing offense.  As Venturi said during the Niners game we having running the ball against 8 men in the box.  Let’s give the guy a chance a see what happens.

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

Guy has a fumbling issue. It’s not okay for the role he’s been used in so far (punt return man). 

Hopefully he gets better. Maybe he will maybe he won’t. 

 

If Natson could get cut after such a nice preseason due to fumbling so can HineS

 

No one is safe. End of story

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, Gabriel Alexander Morillo said:

Guy has a fumbling issue. It’s not okay for the role he’s been used in so far (punt return man). 

Hopefully he gets better. Maybe he will maybe he won’t. 

 

If Natson could get cut after such a nice preseason due to fumbling so can HineS

 

No one is safe. End of story

JoJo was an UDFA(Expendable) and was only going to have one role

[WoolMagnet]

Oops, sorry, i thought this was the Trent Richardson thread.....

 

Carry on.

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

1 minute ago, PrincetonTiger said:

JoJo was an UDFA(Expendable) and was only going to have one role

ANyone not performing is an expendable in a culture that promotes competition. Sorry but that’s the truth. Obviously I hope he turns out to be better than Barry Sanders though

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, Gabriel Alexander Morillo said:

ANyone not performing is an expendable in a culture that promotes competition. Sorry but that’s the truth. Obviously I hope he turns out to be better than Barry Sanders though

He had trouble as a Returner not his drafted position 

   

    What happened to JN relates more to a specialist getting cut/traded because he had issues ala Jeff Locke and Thomas Hennessy

[dodsworth]

4 hours ago, SanDiegoColt8 said:

If it wasnt for our severe lack of RB talent id say Hines is 100% getting cut (and he should be). He was an awful pick in the 4th round and it was a mistake to wait until then to draft a RB.  

Wilkins was drafted in the 5th rd and appears to be doing quite well.

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, #12. said:

After Ballard cut Banner he said that if you're going to preach competition, you have to live it.  

 

Three weeks into preseason is far to early to say Hines should be cut, but four weeks isn't?  I'm certainly not convinced he makes it.  

 

I could see Hines getting cut IF the Colts can first claim someone like Abdullah if Detroit cuts him.   

 

But I think the Colts would hope to re-claim Hines to put him on the PS. Still...   that’s a lot of moving parts that have to happen.

 

 

[akcolt]

28 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

He had trouble as a Returner not his drafted position 

   

    What happened to JN relates more to a specialist getting cut/traded because he had issues ala Jeff Locke and Thomas Hennessy

That is my thought too the kids not a punt returner He isn't going to be Sproles. Those are big shoes and Hines only had 12 PR's in college. Then I did some reading and saw he fumbled 7x his last 2 years at NCST in only 323 all purpose touches. That has me a little more concerned. All 7 could've been on returns in college   I don't know just as we don't know if he's putting the ball on the ground in practice.  

 

I think he makes the team and hope this isn't a problem moving forward. It's definitely something to monitor and concerning. That being said I still hope  to see how we use him when it's for real. I still have hope he can do some of the things the coaches expect. He has to take care of the ball we all know that. There are a lot of conclusions being made about players and play calling etc based off of the 3 preseason games. It's kind of silly really

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, akcolt said:

That is my thought too the kids not a punt returner He isn't going to be Sproles. Those are big shoes and Hines only had 12 PR's in college. Then I did some reading and saw he fumbled 7x his last 2 years at NCST in only 323 all purpose touches. That has me a little more concerned. All 7 could've been on returns in college   I don't know just as we don't know if he's putting the ball on the ground in practice.  

 

I think he makes the team and hope this isn't a problem moving forward. It's definitely something to monitor and concerning. That being said I still hope  to see how we use him when it's for real. I still have hope he can do some of the things the coaches expect. He has to take care of the ball we all know that. There are a lot of conclusions being made about players and play calling etc based off of the 3 preseason games. It's kind of silly really

Part of those NCAA fumbles were because of his role as a Swiss Army Knife

[akcolt]

1 minute ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Part of those NCAA fumbles were because of his role as a Swiss Army Knife

I think that's our plan for him too. I'm not on the dump after 3 preseason games bandwagon but we both know what happens if you put it on the carpet regardless of the situation. Like I said I still hope to see him do his thing. 

[basketballsteve]

On 8/27/2018 at 9:13 AM, iuswingman said:

definite or probable?

 

definite: clearly stated or decided; not vague or doubtful

probable: likely to be the case or to happen

 

I mean, listen, we're talking about preseason, not a game, not a game, not a game, we talking about preseason. Not a game.

You forgot the "supposed to be a franchise player part" part of that riff.

[BeanDiasucci]

What we've seen from him so far isn't very encouraging but with an offense with as few playmakers as the Colts seem to have, I'd like to see them at least try throwing to Hines in the regular season to see how that goes. As for the running game, if you watch the tapes of Wilkins and Hines from college, it shouldn't be any surprise that Wilkins is the better rusher. 

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, BeanDiasucci said:

What we've seen from him so far isn't very encouraging but with an offense with as few playmakers as the Colts seem to have, I'd like to see them at least try throwing to Hines in the regular season to see how that goes. As for the running game, if you watch the tapes of Wilkins and Hines from college, it shouldn't be any surprise that Wilkins is the better rusher. 

Wilkins is a bruiser Hines is a scat back

[Hoose]

The Colts will give him time. If the fumbling persists after proper coaching and a season under his belt, he will probably be a casualty. But not yet. 

[BeanDiasucci]

Just now, PrincetonTiger said:

Wilkins is a bruiser Hines is a scat back

Yeah, but I would argue that Wilkins is more elusive than Hines, as well as more powerful. They need to get Hines the ball in space so he can just outrun people. 

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, BeanDiasucci said:

Yeah, but I would argue that Wilkins is more elusive than Hines, as well as more powerful. They need to get Hines the ball in space so he can just outrun people. 

I agree but the a lot of outside factors that have affected what we see

     

[Mr.NotSoCreative]

On 8/27/2018 at 9:32 AM, iuswingman said:

he was signed as an undrafted free agent and given a tryout to make the team. 

 

Colts didn't spend a draft pick on him.

Sorry dude, we drafted him.

[PrincetonTiger]

3 minutes ago, Mr.NotSoCreative said:

Sorry dude, we drafted him.

He was referring to JoJo Natson not Hines

 

    Natson was signed as an UDFA

[Mr.NotSoCreative]

There is no doubt that he is treating the ball like a greased pig at the moment. I agree with another poster that his confidence is probably shattered. With the offense we ve been running it certainly hasnt done him any favors either, hes not our between the tackles guy. A couple of big plays in the season could pay big dividends for the confidence, and some creativity should get him in space. If he keeps putting it on the deck, he will most certainly get the hook, but not the boot. We need him in a big way, hope he turns it around and fast.

3 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

He was referring to JoJo Natson not Hines

 

    Natson was signed as an UDFA

Doh, my bad

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, Mr.NotSoCreative said:

There is no doubt that he is treating the ball like a greased pig at the moment. I agree with another poster that his confidence is probably shattered. With the offense we ve been running it certainly hasnt done him any favors either, hes not our between the tackles guy. A couple of big plays in the season could pay big dividends for the confidence, and some creativity should get him in space. If he keeps putting it on the deck, he will most certainly get the hook, but not the boot. We need him in a big way, hope he turns it around and fast.

Doh, my bad

I Agree and I had to go back and read the responses around his 

[colts8718]

Anticipation 

[Architects08]

2 hours ago, dodsworth said:

Wilkins was drafted in the 5th rd and appears to be doing quite well.

 

Wilkins has 27 attempts for 75 yards and a goal line fumble. Thats 2.77 yards per carry. Aside from his 3rd and 1 carry to seal the game against a 3rd and 4th string Seattle defense (lol) what has he done "quite well"? 

[chrisfarley]

6 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

Zach Banner was a 4th round pick cut last year

zach banner was a reach.  i think ballard thought that it was a disposable pick.  In other words, feeling like 4th round luck of the draw, and he didn't luck out, so he moves on.  

[jvan1973]

27 minutes ago, chrisfarley said:

zach banner was a reach.  i think ballard thought that it was a disposable pick.  In other words, feeling like 4th round luck of the draw, and he didn't luck out, so he moves on.  

Banner wasn't a reach in the fourth.   

[NewEra]

7 hours ago, #12. said:

After Ballard cut Banner he said that if you're going to preach competition, you have to live it.  

 

Three weeks into preseason is far to early to say Hines should be cut, but four weeks isn't?  I'm certainly not convinced he makes it.  

Something is up with that dude. Attitude? Does he just suck? But somehow played well in college? Cause he's been cut by multiple teams.

[dodsworth]

1 hour ago, SanDiegoColt8 said:

 

Wilkins has 27 attempts for 75 yards and a goal line fumble. Thats 2.77 yards per carry. Aside from his 3rd and 1 carry to seal the game against a 3rd and 4th string Seattle defense (lol) what has he done "quite well"? 

Getting hit at the line of scrimmage and still gaining positive

yards is a good quality to have in a back. Running with the 

3rd and 4th string also means running behind 3rd string 

O linemen.

[braveheartcolt]

I agree with most on here that it is probably too early to judge Hines. But if the coaches use preseason to assess talent and it does not show up, well, it's not a stretch to say he could be cut. Hard to argue that. One thing is certain, he won't be kept or cut due to what any of us posters think or say.

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, chrisfarley said:

zach banner was a reach.  i think ballard thought that it was a disposable pick.  In other words, feeling like 4th round luck of the draw, and he didn't luck out, so he moves on.  

 

Banner being drafted at the bottom of the 4th was not a reach.

 

He was projected by many to get drafted higher, or right around where he went.    I didn't see anyone project him to go in the 5th or later.     

 

I think this talk of "reach" is a little revisionist history.

 

 

[PrincetonTiger]

6 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Banner being drafted at the bottom of the 4th was not a reach.

 

He was projected by many to get drafted higher, or right around where he went.    I didn't see anyone project him to go in the 5th or later.     

 

I think this talk of "reach" is a little revisionist history.

 

 

I call him a “luxury” pick