Hines Was A Definite Miss.....

[a06cc]

I feel Hines will be fine. A rookie is going to make mistakes. That’s a given already. On top of this teams lack of quality backups at tackle and bam! The offensive line hasn’t been to well. Even with AC coming back, the play still needs to improve. 

[ColtJ82]

56 minutes ago, Nesjan3 said:

^This, how can you you be so quick to judge a player, 3 preseason games??? really!? and he is a bust thats it.

Can a 4th rounder even be a "bust", lol

[Superman]

I watched the game late last night. Did Hines put the ball on the ground in that game? I don't remember seeing it...

 

The same impatience that makes fans think a contender can be built in one offseason leads to fans declaring that a 4th rounder is a miss after three preseason games. Just hold your horses. There's zero value in writing off players on your own team. 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

17 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

I’m going to get ahead of the curve...

 

I declare our 2019 round 5 selection is a bust.

 

Not only a Bust, but a reach.

He would have been there in rounds 6 and maybe in 7 too.

[Boiler_Colt]

11 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

Not only a Bust, but a reach.

He would have been there in rounds 6 and maybe in 7 too.

 

During the draft they said the Falcons targeted Hines in round 4 but the Colts took him first. So at least 2 teams had him as a 4th rounder.

[DougDew]

I don't understand the criticism of Hines as not being an effective runner.  I don't think he was drafted to be an effective runner, in the traditional sense.  I think he was drafted to play the Sproles/Edelmann role, which is more than just a 3rd down RB BTW.

 

AFAIK, he hasn't been used in that capacity in the preseason.

 

But ball security issues is certainly something he'll need to get straight.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

41 minutes ago, Boiler_Colt said:

 

During the draft they said the Falcons targeted Hines in round 4 but the Colts took him first. So at least 2 teams had him as a 4th rounder.

I was talking about our 2019 5th rd pick that Boiler Colt was joking about.

It was a joke, not about Hines. Lol

[jvan1973]

6 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I don't understand the criticism of Hines as not being an effective runner.  I don't think he was drafted to be an effective runner, in the traditional sense.  I think he was drafted to play the Sproles/Edelmann role, which is more than just a 3rd down RB BTW.

 

AFAIK, he hasn't been used in that capacity in the preseason.

 

But ball security issues is certainly something he'll need to get straight.

Edelman??

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

Not only a Bust, but a reach.

He would have been there in rounds 6 and maybe in 7 too.

 

And you know this based on....?!?

 

[DougDew]

6 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Edelman??

I know he's a WR and not a RB, but he's a player who earns his keep by getting the ball within 5 yards of the LOS and making the first player miss, rather than by catching 15 yard outs or crossing routes, for the most part.  

[PrincetonTiger]

5 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I know he's a WR and not a RB, but he's a player who earns his keep by getting the ball within 5 yards of the LOS and making the first player miss, rather than by catching 15 yard outs or crossing routes, for the most part.  

Part of that is because he is a converted WR 

[Douzer]

I think the ball security issue is one that every player needs tuned up when they enter the league. It's coach-able. He allowed himself to be stood up and then stripped of the ball in the ensuing  swarm. It happened (I think) only once on a return.

 

The rest (I think) were were mishandles on kicks. It looked like nerves to me.

 

I'm not bent out of shape on those items.

 

What does disappoint me me is the lack of vision he's had in his runs. He's running hyper (adrenaline overload) and it's prevented him from seeing what's there. Literately tripping over his feet like he did Saturday on a kick return. I think the game will slow down for him and he'll start to move with purpose and instinct once he gets himself under control.

 

[DougDew]

Just now, PrincetonTiger said:

Part of that is because he is a converted WR 

?  I actually thought he was a converted QB. 

 

He's never been a RB, AFAIK, I just think of him as one because he's shifty in a tight space.

 

Are you talking about Edelman or Hines? 

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, Douzer said:

I think the ball security issue is one that every player needs tuned up when they enter the league. It's coach-able. He allowed himself to be stood up and then stripped of the ball in the ensuing  swarm. It happened (I think) only once on a return.

 

The rest (I think) were were mishandles on kicks. It looked like nerves to me.

 

I'm not bent out of shape on those items.

 

What does disappoint me me is the lack of vision he's had in his runs. He's running hyper (adrenaline overload) and it's prevented him from seeing what's there. Literately tripping over his feet like he did Saturday on a kick return. I think the game will slow down for him and he'll start to move with purpose and instinct once he gets himself under control.

 

It happens every time someone starts playing at a new level

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, DougDew said:

?  I actually thought he was a converted QB. 

 

He's never been a RB, AFAIK, I just think of him as one because he's shifty in a tight space.

 

Are you talking about Edelman or Hines? 

Edelman he is a converted WR from QB

 

  Randall Cobb is too but his conversion came during college

[throwing BBZ]

16 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I don't understand the criticism of Hines as not being an effective runner.  I don't think he was drafted to be an effective runner, in the traditional sense.  I think he was drafted to play the Sproles/Edelmann role, which is more than just a 3rd down RB BTW.

 

AFAIK, he hasn't been used in that capacity in the preseason.

 

But ball security issues is certainly something he'll need to get straight.

 

 I would think he will run the ball very little this season.
He is a gadget guy, he will be put in motion mostly, and line up as a receiver to stretch the zones.
 KC, NE, the Eagles and Atlanta do this to great effect. 

 This is NOT Andrews game, but he will have to learn it. And very tough with rookie receivers.
 It should be a tough year offensively without good pass and run blocking TE's and scary blocking by our RB's.

Andrew will revert to running, as he will often fail to find and trust making the quick throws.
Year two will be much better of course.

[Hoose]

4 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Keep in mind, I'm not saying Hines is great, good, bad, or anything, I am just responding to your question.

 

Fans and coaches judge a player based on how they have performed.  The difference is, fans base performance on statistics, coaches do not.

 

Fans see 2.38 yards per carry in the preseason games and think a player is not performing.

 

Coaches see; did he take the hand off correctly, was he at the correct spot for the handoff, did he use the technique taught after the handoff, did he run towards the correct spot, did he miss an opportunity for more yards, did he hold the ball correctly when he went through the line, how did he react upon contact from the defense, on passes did he run the correct route, if his back was to the endzone did he get his head around quickly, did he do the correct assignment in pass protection, did he stop the guy he was supposed to stop, did he read the defense correctly.  And the coaches pay attention to those things, not only in the preseason games (because they need to evaluate how the players react when it's not a scripted practice, but they also evaluate that every practice.  And I guarantee you, if a player, in this case Hines, checks off all or even most of the boxes the coaches will think he's performing regardless of what his stats are in preseason games.

 

 

Such a good post. Well done sir. 

[BR-549]

When I was at a coach's clinic at Notre Dame back in the early 90's, Lou Holtz said to us:

 

"Fumbling is an act of God"....... (pause and look at the audience with a deep and deliberate stare)

 

.... "its and act of a _ _ _ Damn * who isn't going to play football for me " .... He was dead serious.  There were laughs, but they were quickly silenced when he carried on his address.

 

 To paint a somewhat better picture of his passion .. there were many drops of slobber and dry erase ink smears from the slobber on the overhead projector which showed up nicely on the backdrop screen. The comment was well received. 

 

It was classic Lou and I am happy for the memory

[PrincetonTiger]

3 minutes ago, BR-549 said:

When I was at a coach's clinic at Notre Dame back in the early 90's, Lou Holtz said to us:

 

"Fumbling is an act of God"....... (pause and look at the audience with a deep and deliberate stare)

 

.... "its and act of a _ _ _ Damn * who isn't going to play football for me " .... He was dead serious.  There were laughs, but they were quickly silenced when he carried on his address.

 

 To paint a somewhat better picture of his passion .. there were many drops of slobber and dry erase ink smears from the slobber on the overhead projector which showed up nicely on the backdrop screen. The comment was well received. 

 

It was classic Lou and I am happy for the memory

Lou Holtz could afford to say that but there are a lot of others who can’t 

[BR-549]

14 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Lou Holtz could afford to say that but there are a lot of others who can’t 

Doesn't matter,  things were different in those days.  Also, he wasn't that far removed from a NC. 

 

The clinic was very productive for us.  Bob Davie actually sat down with our staff and based on some of our information drafted up a few plays that we ended up incorporating into the playbook which became really productive plays for us.  We ended up 8-2 and had we not gotten upset by Sheridan in the sectional finals 10-7 we most likely win state .... not here or there, just info.

 

We went to many of these type clinics as we were required to attend a minimum of three each year .... Ohio State, ND, Purdue, Michigan, Penn State, Louisville where Bobbi Bowden also spoke ..... just to name a few.

 

It was a good time in my life ... I was just trying to connect an experience I had with a situation the Colts have.  Not sure why you would respond that way, but whatever.  By the way ... Wheaties are better with milk.

[PrincetonTiger]

4 minutes ago, BR-549 said:

Doesn't matter,  things were different in those days.  Also, he wasn't that far removed from a NC. 

 

The clinic was very productive for us.  Bob Davie actually sat down with our staff and based on some of our information drafted up a few plays that we ended up incorporating into the playbook which became really productive plays for us.  We ended up 8-2 and had we not gotten upset by Sheridan in the sectional finals 10-7 we most likely win state .... not here or there, just info.

 

We went to many of these type clinics as we were required to attend a minimum of three each year .... Ohio State, ND, Purdue, Michigan, Penn State, Louisville where Bobbi Bowden also spoke ..... just to name a few.

 

It was a good time in my life ... I was just trying to connect an experience I had with a situation the Colts have.  Not sure why you would respond that way, but whatever.  By the way ... Wheaties are better with milk.

 Pointing out that there are a lot of coaches who can’t afford to throw away an able body

 

   Since we were a Wing T school with a limited travel budget most camps were not beneficial or practical 

[BR-549]

Ahhh, okay makes more sense... took it a different way.  No worries

 

BTW, love wing T offensive schemes.  We ran the veer which I hated, but it was effective with our speed.  Sheridan is notorious for wing T and belly O

[AwesomeAustin]

He is just a kid.  Give him time and let the brand new coaching staff work with him.  If he continues bad play into year two or three then the Colts will part ways with him. It’s so early in the process and the team hasn’t begun to play at full strength.  

[PrincetonTiger]

3 minutes ago, BR-549 said:

Ahhh, okay makes more sense... took it a different way.  No worries

 

BTW, love wing T offensive schemes.  We ran the veer which I hated, but it was effective with our speed.  Sheridan is notorious for wing T and belly O

It was so ingrained in me that how to pull and seal/kickoout in a Wing T O was my demonstration speech in college

   Ran it for 6 years in school(7-12) and coached it for 4 more

[Btown_Colt]

34 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

It was so ingrained in me that how to pull and seal/kickoout in a Wing T O was my demonstration speech in college

   Ran it for 6 years in school(7-12) and coached it for 4 more

We also ran the Wing T at Brownstown. I like all the misdirection. You can run several different plays out if the same motions, block scheme. It always worked well for us until we got to regionals. 

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, Btown_Colt said:

We also ran the Wing T at Brownstown. I like all the misdirection. You can run several different plays out if the same motions, block scheme. It always worked well for us until we got to regionals. 

 I roomed with guys from Brownstown

 

    Princeton had several wins but Only got out of sectional once(1986) but we were in the same sectional as Evansville Memorial, Heritage Hills, and Jasper

[Btown_Colt]

3 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

 I roomed with guys from Brownstown

 

    Princeton had several wins but Only got out of sectional once(1986) but we were in the same sectional as Evansville Memorial, Heritage Hills, and Jasper

Yea that’s a tough sectional. We were the opposite, our conference and regular schedule was pretty bad. We often blew teams out by 49 points or more. The JV team usually played the entire 2nd half, etc. We went undefeated a lot. Sectionals were usually pretty easy too until the sectional championship game, which was usually pretty tough. In regionals though we usually got our butts beat! Evansville Mater Die (dei?) handed it to us quite a bit, until they got moved up a class. 

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, Btown_Colt said:

Yea that’s a tough sectional. We were the opposite, our conference and regular schedule was pretty bad. We often blew teams out by 49 points or more. The JV team usually played the entire 2nd half, etc. We went undefeated a lot. Sectionals were usually pretty easy too until the sectional championship game, which was usually pretty tough. In regionals though we usually got our butts beat! Evansville Mater Die (dei?) handed it to us quite a bit, until they got moved up a class. 

Our schedule was brutal The Big 8 was pretty tough many big 3A 4A schools every year(Boonville, Jasper, Mount Vernon(Posey) and Vincennes Lincoln) plus Tell City(coach’s alma mater), Washington and Gibson Southern(our rival) Terre Haute North(93-94), East  Central(95)Owen Valley(96)

  

   Mater Dei and Memorial are also tough and their records are often misleading because of the SIAC

  

[BloodyChamp]

I've said it before here and I'll say it again - he could have been the steal of the draft. He was in my team's conference and he was a beast on a bad team. Careful with your fumbling logic of somebody might ask you to apply it to quarterbacks and INTs.   

[PrincetonTiger]

16 minutes ago, BloodyChamp said:

I've said it before here and I'll say it again - he could have been the steal of the draft. He was in my team's conference and he was a beast on a bad team. Careful with your fumbling logic of somebody might ask you to apply it to quarterbacks and INTs.   

Brett Favre would have been teaching somewhere then

[akcolt]

20 minutes ago, BloodyChamp said:

I've said it before here and I'll say it again - he could have been the steal of the draft. He was in my team's conference and he was a beast on a bad team. Careful with your fumbling logic of somebody might ask you to apply it to quarterbacks and INTs.   

Ball security is a concern but in Hines case most of his problems in that area occurred during punt return duties. The kid only had 12 punt returns in college. I understand trying to get the ball in his hands in different ways. He doesn't appear to be a natural punt returner. That doesn't mean he won't be successful in other roles . There are way to many judgements being made on preseason games. To call a guy a miss after only seeing him in 3 preseason games is comical. 

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, akcolt said:

Ball security is a concern but in Hines case most of his problems in that area occurred during punt return duties. The kid only had 12 punt returns in college. I understand trying to get the ball in his hands in different ways. He doesn't appear to be a natural punt returner. That doesn't mean he won't be successful in other roles . There are way to many judgements being made on preseason games. To call a guy a miss after only seeing him in 3 preseason games is comical. 

This is the perfect time for the the staff to try something new with him

[Lawrence Owen]

Hines isn't going anywhere...yet.  I do remember Frank beaming about his abilities in the passing game.  He's too well like right now just for his potential.  He also believes Hines will right the ship on his fumbles.

 

[akcolt]

1 minute ago, PrincetonTiger said:

This is the perfect time for the the staff to try something new with him

Agreed and if it worked we'd have finally had a homerun threat returning punts but labeling him a miss after just 3 preseason games in ridiculous 

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, akcolt said:

Agreed and if it worked we'd have finally had a homerun threat returning punts but labeling him a miss after just 3 preseason games in ridiculous 

Agreed

[Four2itus]

6 hours ago, Superman said:

There's zero value in writing off players on your own team. 

Well....unless your perspective of being a fan is geared toward exalting the obvious or trashing the obscure. 

 

But in seriousness, you speak true. I have never understood the desire to trash that of which one indicates that they follow. I am really enjoying seeing the new picks begin to fit into the roster. 

 

[BloodyChamp]

1 hour ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Brett Favre would have been teaching somewhere then

 

Or the guy who led the league in INTs the last full season he played  

[Yoshinator]

25 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

Well....unless your perspective of being a fan is geared toward exalting the obvious or trashing the obscure. 

 

But in seriousness, you speak true. I have never understood the desire to trash that of which one indicates that they follow. I am really enjoying seeing the new picks begin to fit into the roster. 

 

My personal opinion of this is that these are just players who are on our team. They are not my family, they are not my friends. Hines has no personal relationship to me, I honestly don't care about him at all besides the fact that he is on the Colts right now. That care is based on the fact that he has potential to be a solid player. However, it is going down the drain very quickly. My investment in him as a Colts player is waning. That's all he is right now, an investment, as there is no return right now. However, his stock is down, and I'm getting to the point where I don't care about him as a Colts player (which is all he is to me at this point). 

 

Other players like Manning, Wayne, Harrison, I love because my investment of time I put into them has rewarded with many years of enjoyment. Hines so far has given me nothing but frustration. We'll see if he turns it around or even makes the team, but he has the worse type of problem an rb can have (fumbling issues), and he's not a very good player when he hasn't fumbled. Long uphill climb as an investment for me on this team to care about.

[2006Coltsbestever]

So after 3 Pre-season games some people label this guy a bust. . Can we wait until this rookie plays half a season before we get to silly to pass judgement .

[PrincetonTiger]

13 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

My personal opinion of this is that these players who are on our team. They are not my family, they are not my friends. Hines has no personal relationship to me, I honestly don't care about him at all besides the fact that he is on the Colts right now. That care is based on the fact that he has potential to be a solid player. However, it is going down the drain very quickly. My investment in him as a Colts player is waning. That's all he is right now, an investment, as there is no return right now. However, his stock is down, and I'm getting to the point where I don't care about him as a Colts player (which is all he is to me at this point). 

 

Other players like Manning, Wayne, Harrison, I love because my investment of time I put into them has rewarded with many years of enjoyment. Hines so far has given me nothing but frustration. We'll see if he turns it around or even makes the team, but he has the worse type of problem an rb can have (fumbling issues), and he's not a very good player when he hasn't fumbled. Long uphill climb as an investment for me on this team to care about.

OK

 

   Many of us are fans of the team not specific players

     I have had strong personal connections to several personal connections to many players for several different players but I will always be a fan of the Colts and Chiefs