Luck looked like crap tonight

[Pacergeek]

Play calling was straight garbage. Both Chris Michael and Joshua Ferguson suck, so it's a waste of time giving those guys the ball on first down. Have to pass the ball to RB's on first down going forward. Find mismatches, and exploit them. Without good WR's, these drop back passes are also crap plays. WR's cannot get open, and Luck takes hits. I was expecting much more from Reich. Looked like the old coaching staff were still calling plays.

[csmopar]

5 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

This is completely different, but I had to do the same thing when competing in Madden tourneys. When I started playing talented people instead of the computer, I had to take field goals instead of going for 4th downs all the time. Sometimes, you just have to take what is given to you and make it up throughout the game. Hopefully Luck learns to throw the ball away and/or take what is given to him. You won't always score a TD, but a FG can be the difference sometimes in a game, as was the case here. Treat every decision important.

I was with you so far this thread, right up until the Madden tourney comment. That just lost it. You cannot compare a computer game to the real thing. It's not even in the same universe as playing a real game

[Yoshinator]

6 minutes ago, csmopar said:

I was with you so far this thread, right up until the Madden tourney comment. That just lost it. You cannot compare a computer game to the real thing. It's not even in the same universe as playing a real game

It's still about making the correct decision in a competitive environment. That was the main comparison I was trying to make. I learned it and Luck needs to do the same. Obviously, none of us will ever be in his shoes, but that's my closest experience of understanding what he needs to change in his habits. Nothing more, nothing less.

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 hours ago, southwest1 said:

If I created the false impression that Luck would transform into Favre, that was not my original intention. Any OC or QB coach will tell you it's not how many picks you throw; it's when & where on the field you throw them throughout the course of a game. Favre would throw picks at the worst possible times & kill momentum just when GB was about to score. He was notorious for this. Always thinking he could beat any cornerback with his arm & eyes regardless of how tight the coverage was. Luck has a knack for doing the same thing more often then he should.

 

It's not the number of picks that matters; It's when & where you throw them. If we had a smothering D with elite pass rushers on both sides we could overcome this, but we don't as it stands now.

No Biggy but I just wanted to point out if there was ever an INT machine it was Favre. He literally gave away many Playoff games with the dumbest INT's, that is why he doesn't make anyone's Top 5 QB's of all-time list. Also there have been alot of Good to Great QB's that have thrown more Bad INT's than Andrew. Dan Marino had many bad one's in the Playoffs when he played, so did Jim Kelly. Peyton even had a Bad one vs the Saints in SB44. Crap happens brother.

[2006Coltsbestever]

16 minutes ago, csmopar said:

I was with you so far this thread, right up until the Madden tourney comment. That just lost it. You cannot compare a computer game to the real thing. It's not even in the same universe as playing a real game

I thought Madden was real 

[Yoshinator]

11 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I thought Madden was real 

It's still real to me dangit! 

[DougDew]

9 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

He was holding the ball too long tonight.  To me this speaks about his WRs than it does about him because no one is open.  I mean have we even heard Grants name yet?  The one play I will put on him was the INT he should have thrown that away and not tried to force it.

This has been the case since Wayne hurt his knee years ago.  People simply refuse to see it. Everybody wants to blame the Oline, but it's the receivers not getting open is what causes the problem.

 

Frankly, it looked like the Old O to me.  Luck holding the ball, then getting pressure and looking to extend the play.  He'll get hurt again of there are too many games like this.

 

But yes, its early and every player needs more time in the new O.

[ColtsAC]

On 7/12/2018 at 4:00 PM, krunk said:

Who knows more about weed than Randy Moss?   Deon Cain had some issues with grass coming out of college so I'm sure Moss could mentor about that.  Moss never got into trouble with that stuff again once he hit the leauge.  The football stuff we know Randy could share a pointer or two.  His stint with the Patriots showed he was or could be a professional also.  I have zero worries about him rubbing off the wrong way on Cain.  Zero.

 

7 hours ago, The Fish said:

That's what I see too. Well put

While I agree with all that the game was a hard watch, I think your post is the right take away to have. Didn't Reich's offense struggle in San Diego when he was there? If I had any worry about him, that would be it. That and the poor Colts wr group.

[DougDew]

9 hours ago, John Hammonds said:

We knew going into this game that getting anything out of the starting offense was going to be tough.  No TY.  No Mack.  No Turbin.  No starting tackles.

Sure enough, the only one who could get open at all was Doyle.  We don't need to practice throwing to him; we already know we can.  But no one else could get open.

Eventually, Andrew began feeling the pressure to score, and began to hold onto the ball longer, and attempt to improvise.  This gets him sacked twice.  Had to pull him before he got hurt.  We knew that there was nothing he could do if no one could get open.

Yes, we do need to mention that our starting offense has gone two preseason games without scoring a touchdown.  Easy to poo-poo it, and say it's just preseason.  But an offense's inability to score in the preseason usually finds a mirror when the games count.

I'd like to see the starters back next week, and see what we can do with everyone on the field.

Thanks for being objective and realistic.

[luv_pony_express]

I have complete faith in Ballard and Reich.  And if they’re convinced that Luck is healthy, improving, and our best option under center from Day 1, I’m not going to question them.

 

But, that said, Jacoby was the better QB last night.

[ColtsAC]

1 minute ago, ColtsAC said:

 

While I agree with all that the game was a hard watch, I think your post is the right take away to have. Didn't Reich's offense struggle in San Diego when he was there? If I had any worry about him, that would be it. That and the poor Colts wr group.

My reply went on the wrong post. Sorry.

[luv_pony_express]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

Everybody wants to blame the Oline, but it's the receivers not getting open is what causes the problem.

 

 

It’s some of both.  But the Suggs sack was squarely on LeRaven Clark.  He inexplicably blocked down on Nelson’s guy while Doyle was only chipping Suggs.  By the time he realized his screwup, it was too late.

[Jay Kirk]

1 minute ago, luv_pony_express said:

 

It’s some of both.  But the Suggs sack was squarely on LeRaven Clark.  He inexplicably blocked down on Nelson’s guy while Doyle was only chipping Suggs.  By the time he realized his screwup, it was too late.

Good observation , what I seen as well , held my breath on that one .

[SteelCityColt]

Why all the doom and gloom? This is just feeding the Luck Redemption Season storyline so the fix will be in for the Colts. Get your money on now folks! 

 

 

[DougDew]

7 minutes ago, luv_pony_express said:

 

It’s some of both.  But the Suggs sack was squarely on LeRaven Clark.  He inexplicably blocked down on Nelson’s guy while Doyle was only chipping Suggs.  By the time he realized his screwup, it was too late.

Olinemen give up plays from time to time.  The comment was about the look of the overall offense.  Holding on to the ball looks the same whether Pagano is the HC or Reich.

 

I'm not concerned about the first game, or the next preseason game.  I'm simply saying what I saw this game.  It looked like about every game we've played in the last 2 years.

 

It was bad in the same way its been bad.  I'd prefer it to have been bad in a different way.

[Yoshinator]

7 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

Why all the doom and gloom? This is just feeding the Luck Redemption Season storyline so the fix will be in for the Colts. Get your money on now folks! 

 

 

You sure have an obsession with me. I'll play your game. You want to continuously bait me and attack me, I'll do it back. Since apparently rules don't apply to the mods.

[SteelCityColt]

9 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

You sure have an obsession with me. I'll play your game. You want to continuously bait me and attack me, I'll do it back. Since apparently rules don't apply to the mods.

 

1) Don’t flatter yourself.

2) I’m in no way attacking yourself but a opinion you posted (which you still haven’t substantied in any way or form). This is well within the rules, “Attack the post, not the poster”.

3) Learn to laugh at yourself a little...

4) Discussion of moderation in the open forums, however, is against the rules so save yourself from trouble and use the report button instead.  

 

 

[Yoshinator]

Just now, SteelCityColt said:

 

1) Don’t flatter yourself.

2) I’m in no way attacking yourself but a opinion you posted (which you still haven’t substantied in any way or form). This is well within the rules, “Attack the post, not the poster”.

3) Learn to laugh at yourself a little... 

 

 

I absolutely substantiated it. I provided 6-8 examples of it happening. Sorry I can't name more when a championship happens once a year. Just because you're in denial doesn't mean I'm wrong. I'll trust multiple instances of winning bets on storylines then any word of mouth from you. Money talks. Literally everything in this world is rigged by a higher power. WWE is fake, the stock market and precious metals markets are fake, politics and who we vote for is rigged, sports have been rigged for a long time by the mob. Even game shows and who gets picked for them is rigged for ratings and certain demographics. I'm sorry you can't see that, but I will trust my worldly experience and track record over someone in denial.

[SteelCityColt]

6 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I absolutely substantiated it. I provided 6-8 examples of it happening. Sorry I can't name more when a championship happens once a year. Just because you're in denial doesn't mean I'm wrong. I'll trust multiple instances of winning bets on storylines then any word of mouth from you. Money talks. Literally everything in this world is rigged by a higher power. WWE is fake, the stock market and precious metals markets are fake, politics and who we vote for is rigged, sports have been rigged for a long time by the mob. Even game shows and who gets picked for them is rigged for ratings and certain demographics. I'm sorry you can't see that, but I will trust my worldly experience and track record over someone in denial.

 

Picking out examples after the event and bending narrative to suit doesn’t provide any evidence.

 

I’ll take imperical evidence over “worldly” experience. I mean you get what the actual proper definition of the various levels of proof involves right? 

 

To put it nicely, anecdotes and ipse dicit doesn’t cut it in the real world. 

 

Like I said, learn to laugh at yourself a little, and laugh at us when this all comes out in the final scene of the NFL conspiracy thriller. 

[jvan1973]

6 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I absolutely substantiated it. I provided 6-8 examples of it happening. Sorry I can't name more when a championship happens once a year. Just because you're in denial doesn't mean I'm wrong. I'll trust multiple instances of winning bets on storylines then any word of mouth from you. Money talks. Literally everything in this world is rigged by a higher power. WWE is fake, the stock market and precious metals markets are fake, politics and who we vote for is rigged, sports have been rigged for a long time by the mob. Even game shows and who gets picked for them is rigged for ratings and certain demographics. I'm sorry you can't see that, but I will trust my worldly experience and track record over someone in denial.

Wow.   My god,   what a load of nonsense

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Picking out examples after the event and bending narrative to suit doesn’t provide any evidence.

 

I’ll take imperical evidence over “worldly” experience. I mean you get what the actual proper definition of the various levels of proof involves right? 

 

To put it nicely, anecdotes and ipse dicit doesn’t cut it in the real world. 

Proof means providing evidence that the storyline matches the winner. I did that for each example. Just because I didn't predict it ahead of time on this forum doesn't mean it didn't happen. You just don't want to admit the sport you love isn't real.

 

You learned the tooth fairy isn't real, then the easter bunny, then santa claus, after that wwe wrestling among other things that you were lied too early in your life. You are in denial because you don't want to admit the thing you love most is an illusion. You can either take advantage of the system and make money off it, or be taken advantage of by the NFL corporation. It's up to you. My advice is to quit being so gullible that you allow yourself to be taken advantage of.

[pgt_rob]

Did Luck look crappy? Yes. However, he didn't have much playing time to redeem himself. Not to mention, every QB isn't going to play perfect each game.

[Gramz]

4 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Wow.   My god,   what a load of nonsense

     I took about 6 months off from the forum.  Back now and   I see some things never change.   

[SteelCityColt]

Apologies for derailing with an attempt at lightheartedness after last night. 

 

I wasn’t actually planning to watch the game, woke up in the early hours not being able to sleep, flipped on to watch Luck throw the pick... amazing timing.

[SteelCityColt]

1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Proof means providing evidence that the storyline matches the winner. I did that for each example. Just because I didn't predict it ahead of time on this forum doesn't mean it didn't happen. You just don't want to admit the sport you love isn't real.

 

You learned the tooth fairy isn't real, then the easter bunny, then santa claus, after that wwe wrestling among other things that you were lied too early in your life. You are in denial because you don't want to admit the thing you love most is an illusion. You can either take advantage of the system and make money off it, or be taken advantage of by the NFL corporation. It's up to you. My advice is to quit being so gullible that you allow yourself to be taken advantage of.

 

No what you provided was a qualitive (not even quantitive) hypothesis of correlation. That is not proof. Again, you need to stop making such absolute statements without being informed. It’s not a semantics thing, there literally is definitions for this stuff. 

 

You know too, what the saying about correlation and causation is... 

 

http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlation

[Cynjin]

18 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I absolutely substantiated it. I provided 6-8 examples of it happening. Sorry I can't name more when a championship happens once a year. Just because you're in denial doesn't mean I'm wrong. I'll trust multiple instances of winning bets on storylines then any word of mouth from you. Money talks. Literally everything in this world is rigged by a higher power. WWE is fake, the stock market and precious metals markets are fake, politics and who we vote for is rigged, sports have been rigged for a long time by the mob. Even game shows and who gets picked for them is rigged for ratings and certain demographics. I'm sorry you can't see that, but I will trust my worldly experience and track record over someone in denial.

 

Wow, I came into this thread without my tin foil hat, my mistake.  

 

I'll leave now since I don't have one.

[SteelCityColt]

5 minutes ago, Gramz said:

     I took about 6 months off from the forum.  Back now and   I see some things never change.   

 

Welcome back, consistency is a virtue... 

 

Or are we just all playing a “role”, and the whole forum is faked?? 

 

[lollygagger8]

[Yoshinator]

10 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

No what you provided was a qualitive (not even quantitive) hypothesis of correlation. That is not proof. Again, you need to stop making such absolute statements without being informed. It’s not a semantics thing, there literally is definitions for this stuff. 

 

You know too, what the saying about correlation and causation is... 

 

http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlation

All you can say is I don't have proof, you are lying. I provided proof. You have no argument and I backed you into a corner where all you can do now is say I'm wrong without anything to stand on. You wouldn't admit it if Roger Goodell himself admitted they fixed a SB. You would still try to twist it into some scenario where the NFL couldn't possibly be like that.

 

It's impossible to communicate with someone with an extreme stance. So I'm done with you. BTW, don't mention me or this subject again. I'm tired of the breakfast club (Jvan and Cynjin) coming on and commenting every time I post. It really is annoying when there are useless posts that distract me from being on the computer.

[Johnny colt]

When was the last time anyone ever said"it's ok doctor,I know you havent performed this particular surgery in a while"?You would never tell the mechanic it was ok that he didnt fix your engine the right way because he hasnt worked on your type of car in a while.Nobody ever said to the exterminator it was ok he only completed spraying 50% of your house because its his 1st day and its a re-building year.I thought these guys are pros?The best of the best on the planet.Getting paid stupid amounts of money to do so.It is early for sure but I bet Luck takes his performance not so lightly.

[jvan1973]

2 minutes ago, Johnny colt said:

When was the last time anyone ever said"it's ok doctor,I know you havent performed this particular surgery in a while"?You would never tell the mechanic it was ok that he didnt fix your engine the right way because he hasnt worked on your type of car in a while.Nobody ever said to the exterminator it was ok he only completed spraying 50% of your house because its his 1st day and its a re-building year.I thought these guys are pros?The best of the best on the planet.Getting paid stupid amounts of money to do so.It is early for sure but I bet Luck takes his performance not so lightly.

Terrible analogies.   But I hope you know that already

[jvan1973]

8 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

All you can say is I don't have proof, you are lying. I provided proof. You have no argument and I backed you into a corner where all you can do now is say I'm wrong without anything to stand on. You wouldn't admit it if Roger Goodell himself admitted they fixed a SB. You would still try to twist it into some scenario where the NFL couldn't possibly be like that.

 

It's impossible to communicate with someone with an extreme stance. So I'm done with you. BTW, don't mention me or this subject again. I'm tired of the breakfast club (Jvan and Cynjin) coming on and commenting every time I post. It really is annoying when there are useless posts that distract me from being on the computer.

You don't have proof.  Proof would be calling it ahead of time.   Not finding out who the champ is,  then trying to find a story to fit your narrative.   

[SteelCityColt]

11 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

All you can say is I don't have proof, you are lying. I provided proof. You have no argument and I backed you into a corner where all you can do now is say I'm wrong without anything to stand on. You wouldn't admit it if Roger Goodell himself admitted they fixed a SB. You would still try to twist it into some scenario where the NFL couldn't possibly be like that.

 

It's impossible to communicate with someone with an extreme stance. So I'm done with you. BTW, don't mention me or this subject again. I'm tired of the breakfast club (Jvan and Cynjin) coming on and commenting every time I post. It really is annoying when there are useless posts that distract me from being on the computer.

 

See now you have taken a shot by calling me a liar. I have stated a fact, you have no provided evidence to the accepted standards required for proof. I have provided you feedback as to why this is and substanited why. This stuff isn’t my opinion, it’s well.. how this all works. I work in an industry where opinion isn’t enough, we’re dealing with peoples’ health after all.

 

To that end, who is the extremist? The one not posting opinion but factual definitions, or the one who believes something and derides anyone who asks him to prove it. I have twisted nothing, merely pointed you in the direction of things, that for a gambler, might be useful to know. If you don’t understand stuff like cause/effect, probability and statistical analysis then you’re gambling on gut. Bad move.

 

I’ll be fair in that it’s probably nigh on impossible to prove in hindsight, unless you have witness testimony to the rigging. Even then it can be dubious. But as everyone keeps trying to get you to understand, there is a way to prove it. Next time you bet big because you’re “in the know” share the slip with us ahead of time.

 

Any argument that can withstand challenge is no argument at all. 

 

 

[Case]

I cant believe I'm still giving this thread the time of day but I wanted to post this information in hopes that it will settle the knee jerk reactions down a tad. I think we can all agree that Drew Brees is pretty decent at football. He had an injury to his shoulder that held him out for 4-6 months (i cant remember exactly how long and was too lazy to look) Below are his pre season stats and the stats for his first few reg season games back.

 

 

Pre Season
Game 1: 5-9 60 yards 0 TD 0 INT 55.6% completion percentage
Game 2. 7-12 67 yards 0 TD 0 INT 58.3%
Game 3. 19-29 189 yards 0 TD 2INT 65.5%
Game 4. 8-12 78 yards 0 TD 0 INT 66.7%

 

Regular Season

Game 1. 16-30 170 yards 1 TD 1 INT 53.3% completion percentage
Game 2. 26-41 353 yards 2 TD 1 INT 63.4% 
Game 3. 20-28 191 yards 0 TD 0 INT 71.4 %
Game 4. 28-38 349 yards 1 TD 0 INT 73.7%
Game 5. 21-33 171 yards 1 TD 0 INT 63.6%
Game 6. 27-37 275 yards 3 TD 2 INT 73%

Bye

Game 7. 24-45 383 yards 3 TD 3 INT 53.3%
Game 8. 24-32 314 yards 3 TD 0 INT 75%

 

 

As you can see his pre season numbers were terrible and it took him a few weeks to get going AND he didnt miss a quarter of the time Luck did.

 

Sooooo, understand its going to take time for him to get back in rhythm. If you dont understand that then you are in for a long season.
 

[Yoshinator]

13 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

You don't have proof.  Proof would be calling it ahead of time.   Not finding out who the champ is,  then trying to find a story to fit your narrative.   

So for example, if Tom Brady says he is retiring, and I say the Pats will win the SB because he is retiring and they do, would that really make a difference to you because I called it first? I doubt it. That's a real possibility as well this year that he could retire.

[richard pallo]

7 hours ago, Grigson's Gaffes said:

To play devil's advocate here, for the majority of Luck's night he was surrounded by Clark, Michael and WR's wearing single digit numbers. RG3 had better WR's in the 4th QTR then Luck did in the 1st. I would take Breshad Perriman over any of the guys Luck started with. Wasn't a great showing, but there is a real possibility a lot of the guys he played with tonight will be looking for work in two weeks. 

Exactly.  And they played Ferguson and Michael with the 1st. team.  Probably the last chance for Ferguson.  I was really expecting to see Wilkens. 

[DaveA1102]

50 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I absolutely substantiated it. I provided 6-8 examples of it happening. Sorry I can't name more when a championship happens once a year. Just because you're in denial doesn't mean I'm wrong. I'll trust multiple instances of winning bets on storylines then any word of mouth from you. Money talks. Literally everything in this world is rigged by a higher power. WWE is fake, the stock market and precious metals markets are fake, politics and who we vote for is rigged, sports have been rigged for a long time by the mob. Even game shows and who gets picked for them is rigged for ratings and certain demographics. I'm sorry you can't see that, but I will trust my worldly experience and track record over someone in denial.

 

Mate, you have instantly lost all credibility by (in the same breath) stating that politics and the precious metals markets are equally as fake as pro wrestling.

 

Seriously though, I have enjoyed a lot of your postings over the years but you seem to have gone off the rails a little bit recently. Genuinely, hit me up in my messages if you ever need to talk.

[jvan1973]

2 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

So for example, if Tom Brady says he is retiring, and I say the Pats will win the SB because he is retiring and they do, would that really make a difference to you because I called it first? I doubt it. That's a real possibility as well this year that he could retire.

Yes,  that would be calling it before the event.   Not after

[Yoshinator]

Just now, jvan1973 said:

Yes,  that would be calling it before the event.   Not after

Fine, as long as you admit it's rigged if I can do it. Apparently, all I have to do is call it ahead of time to convince you.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

52 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I absolutely substantiated it. I provided 6-8 examples of it happening. Sorry I can't name more when a championship happens once a year. Just because you're in denial doesn't mean I'm wrong. I'll trust multiple instances of winning bets on storylines then any word of mouth from you. Money talks. Literally everything in this world is rigged by a higher power. WWE is fake, the stock market and precious metals markets are fake, politics and who we vote for is rigged, sports have been rigged for a long time by the mob. Even game shows and who gets picked for them is rigged for ratings and certain demographics. I'm sorry you can't see that, but I will trust my worldly experience and track record over someone in denial.

 

Yes. It started I beleive when NBC started rigging the game show 'The $64,000 Question'. I beleive it was in the '50's. There was a movie about it too.