Lack of depth: It might take Ballard several years to right the ship

[Defjamz26]

Although no one expected a quick turn around, I think it’s becoming increasingly apparent that this turn around is a 4 -5 year project. It’s not on Ballard though. He came into a team with nothing besides Luck, Hilton, and AC. As time goes by, more of Grigson’s drafts continue to disappear.

 

From 2012 (if you don’t count Luck): Only Hilton remains. 

 

2013 class all gone. Only 1 still in the league.

 

2014 class all gone. Only 2 still in league

 

2015: Only Geathers and Good still on team

 

2016: Everyone still on team except the two 7th rounders. However Morrison and Clarke are potential camp cuts. Green would be too if we had better depth.

 

 

I know that’s all been stated before, but It’s good to see the roster that Ballard walked into. Also, I believe all of Grigson’s FA signings are gone as well. He essentially is building the roster from the ground up. There is a lack of proven starters coupled with a lack of depth. We’re already 2 drafts and FA classes in, so IMO it’ll be another 2-3 years before the Colts are truly “fixed”.

[Colt Overseas]

Agreed, always when we hear Ballard doing interviews, he talks about stacking 3 or 4 draft classes on top of each other and establishing a strong core group of young players. Therefore I doubt we will see Ballard bringing in much free agents to speed up our improvements. Not for another year at the very least, this process is going to take a couple of years. Also because he wants a good committed group of players, he is putting a strong emphasis on high character guys like drafting guys such as Walker Jr, Lewis, Basham, etc over maybe more exciting talents.

[IndyD4U]

I like to think that 3 years is the magic mark. We should see the ship righted, or damn near there, after 3 years. 

 

That’s 3 years of drafts and hopefully 3 years of depth built 

[ColtStrong2013]

With a healthy Luck behind an improved line, they can win a lot more now than many think. 

 

However, we are still 2 years out in my opinion. I'm really interested in the development of Ballard's two draft hauls this season, as I believe it is imperative to the growth of this team. We need several guys to grow this season into longterm starters, which is why the Cain injury is so upsetting. He has great potential and I think was on path for a wonderful rookie year. I still have high hopes for him, but it's a huge setback this early on. We need guys to stay healthy, get on the field, and get better. 

 

If Ballard can swing a couple solid free agents next offseason, and we see a solid growth year this season, we might be able to make serious noise next season. Lot of what ifs.

[1959Colts]

1 hour ago, Defjamz26 said:

 

 

...2016: Everyone still on team except the two 7th rounders. However Morrison and Clarke are potential camp cuts...

 

It's funny, Clark could be cut... Or he may end up starting.

 

https://twitter.com/AWalkerColts

 

@AWalkerColts 18h18 hours ago

 

Out here at practice, #Colts showing a first-team offensive line of Le’Raven Clark (LT), Quenton Nelson (LG), Ryan Kelly (C), Matt Slauson (RG), Braden Smith (RT).

4 replies3 retweets29 likes

 

[aaron11]

dont they  have to spend some of that money the team has been rolling over the last few years?

 

i know its over a 3-4 year period, but its been a few years already i thought 

 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

I look at it as a 3yr plan that started this off season (2018). Get Luck healthy and have have a Draft + Free Agency. (2019) same thing, (2020) same thing. I fully expect if Luck is healthy in the 2020 Season we should be back in the AFC Title Game at worse if not a SB. 

[GoColtsWin]

1 hour ago, IndyD4U said:

I like to think that 3 years is the magic mark. We should see the ship righted, or damn near there, after 3 years. 

 

That’s 3 years of drafts and hopefully 3 years of depth built 

This is how I see it also. Fits with CB’s timeline. At that point, we’ll probably only be a decent free agent or two from filling in our “major needs”. Who knows, we may catch lightning in a bottle just because AL is healthy! I honestly expect a 8-10 win season, barring any major injuries to starters. Pretty excited for the season. 

[#12.]

A potential turnaround was made longer by the fact we were turned down by seemingly every free agent we pursued(and a coach).  After the fact, Ballard tried to spin it as a conscious decision to focus only on the draft, but that wasn't the case.  Free agents simply chose other destinations.

[chad72]

21 minutes ago, #12. said:

A potential turnaround was made longer by the fact we were turned down by seemingly every free agent we pursued(and a coach).  After the fact, Ballard tried to spin it as a conscious decision to focus only on the draft, but that wasn't the case.  Free agents simply chose other destinations.

 

Hate to agree with this but I have to. The only way we can make ourselves a better destination is with us winning more games with Luck healthy, fingers crossed. 

[throwing BBZ]

1 hour ago, aaron11 said:

dont they  have to spend some of that money the team has been rolling over the last few years?

 

i know its over a 3-4 year period, but its been a few years already i thought 

 

 

 

Some probably, and he is first saving it to sign our own people that he likes.
The guy actually has a plan. A better one than ANY Blue faced couch toad posting here. JMO

[IinD]

We can still make a little noise, but we definitely have holes. 

They can speed up the rebuild by dipping into FA next year. 

 

If Ballard's draft picks don't pan out two years down the road then we're officially screwed. Not in a good way.

[Matthew Gilbert]

19 minutes ago, #12. said:

A potential turnaround was made longer by the fact we were turned down by seemingly every free agent we pursued(and a coach).  After the fact, Ballard tried to spin it as a conscious decision to focus only on the draft, but that wasn't the case.  Free agents simply chose other destinations.

Although it can be a long process, I'd much rather build through the draft. Too many times I've seen high priced free agents bust after getting paid. Obviously not all free agent signings are bust but there have been enough to justify my opinion on the matter. I loved the Colts 2017 draft class and liked the 2018 class(I would have made a few different selections but all in all a strong class). I think the Colts are two drafts away from having a strong roster from top to bottom. 

[crazycolt1]

3 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

Although no one expected a quick turn around, I think it’s becoming increasingly apparent that this turn around is a 4 -5 year project. It’s not on Ballard though. He came into a team with nothing besides Luck, Hilton, and AC. As time goes by, more of Grigson’s drafts continue to disappear.

 

From 2012 (if you don’t count Luck): Only Hilton remains. 

 

2013 class all gone. Only 1 still in the league.

 

2014 class all gone. Only 2 still in league

 

2015: Only Geathers and Good still on team

 

2016: Everyone still on team except the two 7th rounders. However Morrison and Clarke are potential camp cuts. Green would be too if we had better depth.

 

 

I know that’s all been stated before, but It’s good to see the roster that Ballard walked into. Also, I believe all of Grigson’s FA signings are gone as well. He essentially is building the roster from the ground up. There is a lack of proven starters coupled with a lack of depth. We’re already 2 drafts and FA classes in, so IMO it’ll be another 2-3 years before the Colts are truly “fixed”.

Kind of funny the last coaching staff was suppose to field winners with the players you have listed. IMO the coaches didn't have the players to make all those game winning adjustments that they were accused of not making.  Now we are expected to be patent with the present coaching staff till the players are drafted to have a team that wins.

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I look at it as a 3yr plan that started this off season (2018). Get Luck healthy and have have a Draft + Free Agency. (2019) same thing, (2020) same thing. I fully expect if Luck is healthy in the 2020 Season we should be back in the AFC Title Game at worse if not a SB. 

 

Why does your 3-year plan start this season?   2018?

 

Ballard’s 3year plan started last year, 2017.

 

So he’s expecting a much more competitive roster in 2019.

 

Also...   to expect your favorite team to be in the league championship game if not the Super Bowl is a recipe for heart break.    As a fan of a contending team,  the safest thing to expect is your team makes the post season.   At that point anything can happen.

 

[-JJ-]

4 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Why does your 3-year plan start this season?   2018?

 

Ballard’s 3year plan started last year, 2017.

 

So he’s expecting a much more competitive roster in 2019.

 

Also...   to expect your favorite team to be in the league championship game if not the Super Bowl is a recipe for heart break.    As a fan of a contending team,  the safest thing to expect is your team makes the post season.   At that point anything can happen.

 

I agree. 

 

Unfortunately 3 year plans are the limits today because of FA,Drafts and just general team changes- keeping players etc..

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, #12. said:

A potential turnaround was made longer by the fact we were turned down by seemingly every free agent we pursued(and a coach).  After the fact, Ballard tried to spin it as a conscious decision to focus only on the draft, but that wasn't the case.  Free agents simply chose other destinations.

 

No.    I’m sorry.   But this is not true.   Ballard talked about a 3-year plan when he got hired.

 

Ballard announced the 2018 free agency would not be like the 2017 free agency long before it even started.   He said fans would likely be disappointed that he wouldn’t be going after the same number of FA’s this year as last.

 

There was no spin.  His story didn’t change.   Not even a little.

 

P. S.  — He’s already announced he’s likley taking the same approach to FA next year as well.   He did that in the interview he gave when he made his big trade with the Jets to move back and collect more picks.

[NorthernBlue]

4 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Also...   to expect your favorite team to be in the league championship game if not the Super Bowl is a recipe for heart break.    As a fan of a contending team,  the safest thing to expect is your team makes the post season.   At that point anything can happen.

 

Cannot agree more with the last statement. Winning championships is pretty damn hard, and as a fan, the most one should expect or hope for is for their team to be in contention. Every year there’s always like 5-6 teams that expect to win the super bowl that season, but only 1 team does, leaving 5 other fan bases heartbroken. Look at the Steelers. They’ve been kinda underwhelming in the playoffs since 2011. But they’re almost exclusively contending each year. As a fan, there’s not much more you can ask for.

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Why does your 3-year plan start this season?   2018?

 

Ballard’s 3year plan started last year, 2017.

 

So he’s expecting a much more competitive roster in 2019.

 

Also...   to expect your favorite team to be in the league championship game if not the Super Bowl is a recipe for heart break.    As a fan of a contending team,  the safest thing to expect is your team makes the post season.   At that point anything can happen.

 

Luck wasn't healthy last year so part of his plan, the way I look at it is getting Luck healthy. That just started now in 2018. Of course I would love it if we just made the SB without taking any Playoff steps. I guess my point is, by 2020 I expect us to be near the top in the league. This season I want to see improvement and a winning season would be great as in 9-7. In 2019 more improvement (maybe 11-5), then in 2020 we should be primed and ready is what I am saying. The Patriots wont even be in the equation in 2020 either, Brady will be where Manning is at = on his recliner drinking Bud. Luck will still be in his prime and ready to roll.

[NewColtsFan]

4 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

Although no one expected a quick turn around, I think it’s becoming increasingly apparent that this turn around is a 4 -5 year project. It’s not on Ballard though. He came into a team with nothing besides Luck, Hilton, and AC. As time goes by, more of Grigson’s drafts continue to disappear.

 

From 2012 (if you don’t count Luck): Only Hilton remains. 

 

2013 class all gone. Only 1 still in the league.

 

2014 class all gone. Only 2 still in league

 

2015: Only Geathers and Good still on team

 

2016: Everyone still on team except the two 7th rounders. However Morrison and Clarke are potential camp cuts. Green would be too if we had better depth.

 

 

I know that’s all been stated before, but It’s good to see the roster that Ballard walked into. Also, I believe all of Grigson’s FA signings are gone as well. He essentially is building the roster from the ground up. There is a lack of proven starters coupled with a lack of depth. We’re already 2 drafts and FA classes in, so IMO it’ll be another 2-3 years before the Colts are truly “fixed”.

 

First off...   why should ANYTHING be apparent one game into the preseason?

 

Second... Ballard has a 3-year plan, so why us yours now 4-5?

 

Third:   Define fixed?   Making the playoffs?   Advancing to the playoffs?   Reaching the SB?   What?   Fixed means different things to different people.

 

I’d be reluctant to connect dots yet. 

 

[Fisticuffs111]

I was confused about when the "3 year plan" technically started because it was brought up last season, but I thought they reiterated that this is year 1. I thought I saw a quote from Irsay or Ballard recently but I can't find it. This tweet can be taken different ways I think. *Holder added that he thought Irsay meant 2017 as year 1, but I swear I remember seeing something where Ballard/Irsay said year 1 is starting with Reich.
 

 

I found this too:

 

Quote

The patience involves the long-lens view of a franchise now being led by general manager Chris Ballard. The Colts, Irsay insisted, are in a three-year rebuilding mode after missing the playoffs for three straight years for the first time in nearly a quarter century.

 

https://fox59.com/2018/03/26/colts-jim-irsay-indicators-are-andrew-luck-has-turned-the-corner-in-rehab/

[NewColtsFan]

5 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Luck wasn't healthy last year so part of his plan, the way I look at it is getting Luck healthy. That just started now in 2018. Of course I would love it if we just made the SB without taking any Playoff steps. I guess my point is, by 2020 I expect us to be near the top in the league. This season I want to see improvement and a winning season would be great as in 9-7. In 2019 more improvement (maybe 11-5), then in 2020 we should be primed and ready is what I am saying. The Patriots wont even be in the equation in 2020 either, Brady will be where Manning is at = on his recliner drinking Bud. Luck will still be in his prime and ready to roll.

 

Last year was a free year for Ballard.   No one judged him the way we do now.

 

He didn’t have his starting QB, and he didn’t have his own coaching staff operating with his philosophy.   It didn’t put us further behind.  This was mostly baked into the recipe. (Minus Luck). 

 

We’ll be far more competitive this year on a game by game basis.  Next year I’d expect the Colts to be more competitive on a seasonal basis.   Ballard’s plan SHOULD work.

 

It’s hard to see it now.   It's hard to see anything in August of Year 2.   But it should be much more apparent by December and January....

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

5 minutes ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

I was confused about when the "3 year plan" technically started, but Irsay seems to have said that it starts this year, but I guess this tweet can be taken a couple different ways.
 

I think I remember seeing Ballard also state that it was year one somewhere, like an article on 1070, but I can't find it now.

 

Well....   I’d agree that the Irsay comment can be taken a number of different ways.

 

Mine is that Year 1 was 2017.   Weren’t we all writing about that during last years terrible season?   I certainly thought so.  I don’t recall Ballard announcing his 3-year plan THIS year?

 

I don’t see how 2017 doesn’t count?   He was building the team.   Draft picks, free agents,  guys off the street.   Feels to me like clock has been running since he arrived.....

 

[Fisticuffs111]

6 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Well....   I’d agree that the Irsay comment can be taken a number of different ways.

 

Mine is that Year 1 was 2017.   Weren’t we all writing about that during last years terrible season?   I certainly thought so.  I don’t recall Ballard announcing his 3-year plan THIS year?

 

I don’t see how 2017 doesn’t count?   He was building the team.   Draft picks, free agents,  guys off the street.   Feels to me like clock has been running since he arrived.....

 

The only thing I can think of is that they'd consider it year 1 because it's Reich's first year? I don't know, I think if they are intending this to be year 1 then it's more to kind of give them a bigger cushion because they realized it'd take a long time to get this roster upgraded.

I remember this actually becoming a debate among reporters, whether or not Irsay meant last year or this year being the start of the plan. This tweet was posted the day after the first tweet I posted:
 

 

[crazycolt1]

So some are going to argue about when the 3 year plan started? Geez. 

It makes no difference because till this team is built to win a 3 year plan means zero.

[Fisticuffs111]

5 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

So some are going to argue about when the 3 year plan started? Geez. 

It makes no difference because till this team is built to win a 3 year plan means zero.

I know I'm not the only one talking about it, so I don't know if you're including me in the argument talk, but I'm just putting some context what's been said to the media and their interpretation.

But I agree, it doesn't mean much. Just kind of the countdown until they can be held accountable, I guess.

[crazycolt1]

2 minutes ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

I know I'm not the only one talking about it, so I don't know if you're including me in the "argument" talk, but I'm merely just putting some context what's been said to the media and their interpretation.

But I agree, it doesn't mean much.

I was just a general comment aimed at no one in particular.

[NewColtsFan]

3 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

So some are going to argue about when the 3 year plan started? Geez. 

It makes no difference because till this team is built to win a 3 year plan means zero.

 

First...   no one is arguing...    we’re discussing.    That happens on an internet fans message board.

 

Second...   seems like a good topic to discuss.   Shouldn’t we all be on the same page?   I don’t see a problem here.

 

Third...    saying the team won’t be good until the team is good seems to fall in the Capt. Obvious camp, doesn’t it?

 

I don’t see a problem here...   don’t know why you do?    Nobody is knocking anyone or anything...

 

[crazycolt1]

8 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

First...   no one is arguing...    we’re discussing.    That happens on an internet fans message board.

 

Second...   seems like a good topic to discuss.   Shouldn’t we all be on the same page?   I don’t see a problem here.

 

Third...    saying the team won’t be good until the team is good seems to fall in the Capt. Obvious camp, doesn’t it?

 

I don’t see a problem here...   don’t know why you do?    Nobody is knocking anyone or anything...

 

Explain to me what difference does it make? Like I said, any 3 year plan means exactly zero till a winning team is built.

Discussing, debating or arguing changes nothing.

[1959Colts]

The heck with that. The time to win is now.

[NewColtsFan]

30 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Explain to me what difference does it make? Like I said, any 3 year plan means exactly zero till a winning team is built.

Discussing, debating or arguing changes nothing.

 

Well....   the discussion is over WHEN the 3-year plan started?  2017 or 2018?

 

How can people have a good discussion about the success or lack of success if they can’t even agree what year the plan started?

 

i don’t understand this new approach you’re taking on discussions on the message board.    This isn’t the first time you’ve gone to the card that says “what good does it do to have this discussion, we’ll be good when we’re good.”    Or...   “what good does it do to talk about this?   Our opinions mean nothing.   The only opinion that matters is Ballard’s.”   You used that one recently too.

 

I don’t understand this approach? Discussing what’s going on is the primary function of this web page.  It’s why we’re all here.   To voice our views and opinions and have fun talking about our favorite team.   And you seem to banging the drum of....   “what good does it do?”    It’s fun for many of us.   I thought it used to be fun for you?   

 

Not sure why you’ve made this  change?   We’re all here to have fun....

 

Isn't that a good thing?

 

 

 

[crazycolt1]

5 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Well....   the discussion is over WHEN the 3-year plan started?  2017 or 2018?

 

How can people have a good discussion about the success or lack of success if they can’t even agree what year the plan started?

 

i don’t understand this new approach you’re taking on discussions on the message board.    This isn’t the first time you’ve gone to the card that says “what good does it do to have this discussion, we’ll be good when we’re good.”    Or...   “what good does it do to talk about this?   Our opinions mean nothing.   The only opinion that matters is Ballard’s.”   You used that one recently too.

 

I don’t understand this approach? Discussing what’s going on is the primary function of this web page.  It’s why we’re all here.   To voice our views and opinions and have fun talking about our favorite team.   And you seem to banging the drum of....   “what good does it do?”    It’s fun for many of us.   I thought it used to be fun for you?   

 

Not sure why you’ve made this  change?   We’re all here to have fun....

 

Isn't that a good thing?

 

 

 

I would be happy to explain why the change of my mood in this forum but it would have to be in private.

[MB-ColtsFan]

The 2017 draft class was sort of a tweener for me.  We were still in a (primarily hybrid) 3-4 defense, and Basham had played 4-3 in college, I believe.  Likewise, Wilson was more of a press corner, not a zone guy.

In my mind, Ballard was trying to to get some pieces he could give to Chuck to play with for one year, but also get guys who would transition well to a 4-3 when he brought in a new head coach at the end of last season.  I think he had it in his mind a new coach would be brought in and he wanted a 4-3 minded DC.

All this would mean, to me, that this is the 1st year of the plan.  2018 is the first draft he is able to completely set his sights on the O and D that will be used for the next X amount of time.

 

[MB-ColtsFan]

52 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Explain to me what difference does it make? Like I said, any 3 year plan means exactly zero till a winning team is built.

Discussing, debating or arguing changes nothing.

I think it holds the GM accountable.  Does he stick with his plan or does he suddenly start spending wildly in FA to win now instead of 2-3 years from now?  Does he hold onto most of his $$ for the next 4 years saying "we're not close yet"?

 

I agree, this changes nothing as far as the team is concerned, but it does give us fans a window into our GM's thinking on building that winning team though.

Just my opinion.

[NewColtsFan]

13 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I would be happy to explain why the change of my mood in this forum but it would have to be in private.

 

Ok.....   fair enough....

 

Whenever you like.  

 

I’m always here....

 

[dgambill]

I think we will know what we need to know about Chris Ballard in a couple more years. This past draft and what he does next year with two seconds and likely an extra compensatory pick plus what he does in free agency next year we will have enough information to really start to judge him. By the the end of the 2019 season we will either be building to winning our division and being a playoff threat or if we are sputtering then it will be safe to say we aren’t on the right track. This rookie class should be really contributing and next years should show some signs. That’s when I’ll really start expecting us to make a run.

[P'Son]

He's already righted the ship.  Now he needs to find some men to man the oars!

[crazycolt1]

3 minutes ago, P'Son said:

He's already righted the ship.  Now he needs to find some men to man the oars!

That is very good rational comment.

[GoColts8818]

I think the “three year plan” starts now judging by how Irsay talked this off-season.  I thought last year was pretty much a season long interview for Chuck to prove Grgison was the problem and he wasn’t.  Once they lost Luck for the year the writing was on the wall.  

 

With that said only one mans opinion matters on this and while he might tweet about it he’s not going to post here.  Not saying we can’t or shouldn’t talk about it I am just saying nothing we come up with should be taken as the gosspal time frame Irsay will use.

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

I think the “three year plan” starts now judging by how Irsay talked this off-season.  I thought last year was pretty much a season long interview for Chuck to prove Grgison was the problem and he wasn’t.  Once they lost Luck for the year the writing was on the wall.  

 

With that said only one mans opinion matters on this and while he might tweet about it he’s not going to post here.  Not saying we can’t or shouldn’t talk about it I am just saying nothing we come up with should be taken as the gosspal time frame Irsay will use.

I agree it starts this season because we have a healthy Luck, new Coaches, new scheme.