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Schwartz on Nelson: Mostly real good...

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5 minutes ago, Tsarquise said:

What an exciting first round pick...

 

Would you rather Vujnovich was still there?

 

Entirely necessary 1st round pick.

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I, like I'm sure many, paid close attention to Nelson last night.  At least as much as can be done on a tv broadcast.  And he is every bit as good as advertised.  The times he got beat, and there were a couple, it because he is just not yet prepared for the level of moves that a veteran dlineman has at is disposal.

 

A couple of things that I think he needs to work on

- When helping with the center he has a tendency to turn his hips towards the defender which is going to open him up to delayed blitzes and stunts through his area.  I'd like him to stay a bit more square, so that he can quickly come off his initial block when that happens.

 

-   In pass protection a couple of time his knees would straighten and he would bend more at the waist.  You have to keep that but down and knees bent in pass protection.

 

Neither of those are cause for concern just a couple of things that, if I were his coach, we'd be focusing on before the next game.

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The biggest issue I saw with Nelson was when he had to kick-set a bit when facing a speed rush. That allowed the defender to get under him and get the leverage which is why I'll never expect to see him at a tackle position: his value at guard is just too dang high. I think it's when he kick-set that his knees were too straight, and thats when he bent at the waist. It was weird seeing him just fly backwards a couple times, but in the two series I really focused on watching those times didnt seem to result in a negative play.

 

His strength when it came to short-sets and run blocking seemed to really shine. I LOVED seeing him pull, and the gap it created. The game didnt seem too big for him, and his mistakes could be coached up

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He's probably one of the fastest pulling guards that I've seen

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"What an exciting first round pick..."

 

What will be exciting is winning games.  If you are dissappointed because he isn't a flashy playmaker you should remember none of those guys get to pretend they are so awesome until the big uglies get the job done.

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52 minutes ago, IndyD4U said:

He's probably one of the fastest pulling guards that I've seen

 

True that, we need that in the modern NFL.

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1 hour ago, TheMarine said:

The biggest issue I saw with Nelson was when he had to kick-set a bit when facing a speed rush. That allowed the defender to get under him and get the leverage which is why I'll never expect to see him at a tackle position: his value at guard is just too dang high. I think it's when he kick-set that his knees were too straight, and thats when he bent at the waist. It was weird seeing him just fly backwards a couple times, but in the two series I really focused on watching those times didnt seem to result in a negative play.

 

His strength when it came to short-sets and run blocking seemed to really shine. I LOVED seeing him pull, and the gap it created. The game didnt seem too big for him, and his mistakes could be coached up

I agree with everything but I don't understand the bolded.  In pass pro the guard is supposed to kick step, he just doesn't kick step  as far as the tackle.

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1 minute ago, Coffeedrinker said:

I agree with everything but I don't understand the bolded.  In pass pro the guard is supposed to kick step, he just doesn't kick step  as far as the tackle.

 

On the first series, the D-Line had two lined up to the outside shoulder of Nelson and Haeg, with the MLB over top Nelson. His responsibility was the inside first (and always) for a MLB blitz or inside stunt, and which didnt come and had a speed rush attacking his outside shoulder area, requiring a deeper kick-set than normal for a guard since the LT was also facing a speed rush to his outside shoulder. The DE was able to get under Nelson, and while he stayed in front of the defender, he was driven straight backward and didn't look like it was going to stop til the ball left the QBs hand.

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1 minute ago, TheMarine said:

 

On the first series, the D-Line had two lined up to the outside shoulder of Nelson and Haeg, with the MLB over top Nelson. His responsibility was the inside first (and always) for a MLB blitz or inside stunt, and which didnt come and had a speed rush attacking his outside shoulder area, requiring a deeper kick-set than normal for a guard since the LT was also facing a speed rush to his outside shoulder. The DE was able to get under Nelson, and while he stayed in front of the defender, he was driven straight backward and didn't look like it was going to stop til the ball left the QBs hand.

I understand getting into his chest and pushing him back it was the kick step part Because again the guard is supposed to kick step.

 

And in that scenario, I do disagree with Nelson's responsibility is inside first,  Kelly should come down the line to get the LB, while Nelson kick steps to get the dlineman closest to him and haeg take the the outside guy.  Or Luck needs to adjust the and bring a TE over to that side and then the LT and LG can then take the inside guy.  Nelson's technique got sloppy on that play but I don't think he played it incorrectly.

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Nelson's strength is going to be the "quick-set", where he gets a slightly staggered stance and is immediately into the face of the defender. On those plays, D Line didnt get anywhere, period. And we agree, his technique got sloppy there with him stepping too deeply. We also dont know what the line call was, if I remember right it was a pass to the right, so typically your O-Line call is to protect the Right side first, then work your way back.

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I like how in some of those plays it was very obvious that Haeg benefitted from having Nelson by his side. I really, really hope AC can get healthy and Kelly (and everybody else for that matter) can stay healthy.

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37 minutes ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

I like how in some of those plays it was very obvious that Haeg benefitted from having Nelson by his side. I really, really hope AC can get healthy and Kelly (and everybody else for that matter) can stay healthy.

If AC starts the season like he should, and that trio of he, Q, and Kelly stay healthy, they will be playing at a very high level come November. The right side of the line will be solid with Slauson and Howard. But we have the depth to fill in Smith, Haeg, etc if one of those guys go down. It all starts with a healthy left side... and Q makes the difference in what is good and what could be excellent. 

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I think he looked bad in pass pro. He has a lot of work to do there. Already a very good run blocker though. 

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14 minutes ago, Superman said:

I think he looked bad in pass pro. He has a lot of work to do there. Already a very good run blocker though. 

 

Bad for Quenton Nelson, yeah.  But we've seen BAD pass pro in Indy, and even Nelson in his first NFL game is better than some of the names I'm purposefully forgetting.  :D

 

You can tell he's facing a different level of competition now.  Guys are quicker and a little more slippery in the NFL, he can't just clamp his hands together and move whatever he catches if there's nothing there to catch immediately after the snap... 

 

But yeah, when he pulls on a run play, he paves a lane.

 

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He will look better having someone more capable to his left when AC comes back but yeah overall he looked good for his first action.

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he definitely showed why was drafted that high.

 

but, being a rookie facing his first test against other NFL lineman, he had a couple hickups...which was expected and will only get better at dealing with over time.

 

Even with a "solid" game by what may have been expected is still VASTLY superior to what the Colts have had in the past.

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1 hour ago, Superman said:

I think he looked bad in pass pro. He has a lot of work to do there. Already a very good run blocker though. 

 

Interesting. I was not watching Nelson every snap, but I thought he handled himself well. Most of the pressure came from the two tackles. 

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What stood out to me was how he finishes plays he doesn't stop attacking until the whistle blows . Wasn't perfect has some things to work on but he showed the ability to take his man out of plays . 

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7 hours ago, gspdx said:

"What an exciting first round pick..."

 

What will be exciting is winning games.  If you are dissappointed because he isn't a flashy playmaker you should remember none of those guys get to pretend they are so awesome until the big uglies get the job done.

I agree; winning would be very exciting, but I doubt it would be due to Nelson. 

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5 hours ago, MTC said:

 

Interesting. I was not watching Nelson every snap, but I thought he handled himself well. Most of the pressure came from the two tackles. 

 

I saw him get beat several times. His punch was missing, he got off balance and even got over powered on one pass play. They're all in the video above. 

 

It's not surprising, we all knew his run blocking was head of his pass protection. I also don't think he's flawed, all of those issues are very correctable. 

 

Edit: Play #3 at 0:12 is the worst play of the night for him, IMO.

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When we hear he is dominating in practice, we have to remember they are Colt defenders.

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17 hours ago, Tsarquise said:

I agree; winning would be very exciting, but I doubt it would be due to Nelson. 

 

Well - we all have our opinions.  If this guy develops into what we hope - and there is no guarantee - then I think he will have a big impact on our ability to win games.

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Thursday's game was the first game I have ever watched a specific offensive lineman play. I wasn't watching Luck or the RB's. My attention was on Nelson. If you weren't watching him play, I highly recommend it. Entertaining watching #56 destroy people on run plays. Never seen a player so committed in finding defenders to hit. Pass plays were not as entertaining though. Have a question: How often do the top OL players get beaten on pass plays? Once or twice a game? Nelson got beat on the Luck scramble. Just need to know if this is what to expect from watching #56.

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21 hours ago, Tsarquise said:

I agree; winning would be very exciting, but I doubt it would be due to Nelson. 

Nelson will be responsible for the Colts having a formidable run game, especially on short yardage. Turbin picked up a first down, where there was really no room. Nelson stood firm, did not allow himself to be moved, and Turbin just ran behind him. There was also the counter play, where #56 crushed a defender, springing Mack for a big gain. Nelson has work to do for pass protection, but he is already a difference maker for rushing plays. There will be a long highlight video, this season, of Nelson KO'ing defenders. Once defenders become aware of the problem that is #56, we will see defenders running away from Nelson. 

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On 8/10/2018 at 8:47 AM, stitches said:

And here's what PFF wrote about him:

 

 

I know this is a Nelson thread but I am glad I am not the only one who thought Kelly played well.  

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Already looks like a pro bow run blocker. Got some things to clean up in pass protection though. And sooner than later. Have to play the Jags defensive line twice.

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On 8/10/2018 at 6:53 PM, Superman said:

 

I saw him get beat several times. His punch was missing, he got off balance and even got over powered on one pass play. They're all in the video above. 

 

It's not surprising, we all knew his run blocking was head of his pass protection. I also don't think he's flawed, all of those issues are very correctable. 

 

Edit: Play #3 at 0:12 is the worst play of the night for him, IMO.

Yea, that one was a total whiff and could have gotten the QB hurt.  Didn't happen, but could have and that will have to immediately get addressed.  If he were to have at least got in the path, it would have slowed the progress a little bit, but a whiff ends in huge loss of yards or worse. We can compare the Monday Night game to this one and see if this continues in Pass Pro.

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He looked fine in pass protection he only got beat like twice and the defender still couldn't get passed him clean 

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15 hours ago, VaAllDay757 said:

He looked fine in pass protection he only got beat like twice and the defender still couldn't get passed him clean 

 

I started charting but got distracted. I think I had him beat in 3 of 14 pass plays, and I thought he held on one of them. I don't think he looked fine, I'd say he struggled. 

 

I still think he'll be a very good and even great player. 

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I agree he had some hiccups in pass protection. He isn’t a finished perfect player...he has work to do and I’m sure he knows that. These mistakes in college mostly go unnoticed because the defense can’t take advantage of the mistake or your strength etc will make up for it...in the pros you are exposed all game pretty much. I’m sure he will clean things up...but he will have some moments this year playing against the NFLs elite.

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I think people forget this guy is still a rookie and literally just played in his FIRST preseason game. He's only going to get better from here and it's astonishing how good he already is!

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21 hours ago, dgambill said:

I agree he had some hiccups in pass protection. He isn’t a finished perfect player...he has work to do and I’m sure he knows that. These mistakes in college mostly go unnoticed because the defense can’t take advantage of the mistake or your strength etc will make up for it...in the pros you are exposed all game pretty much. I’m sure he will clean things up...but he will have some moments this year playing against the NFLs elite.

 

He'll have to learn some things.  There is a lot of things having an athletic advantage can make up for in college.  

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Nelson is fine.  I think he will be one of the least of the Colts problems this year.

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