Luck 4 president

Khalil Mack trade possibility?

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it seems like the raiders are done with Mack. Gruden and him aren’t compatible and there is a good possibility he will be traded. Would it make sense, despite our crowded DE unit, to trade for a top 5-10 defensive player? If so what would you give up?

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Well, we really wouldn't be trading a draft pick for Mack.  We'd be trading a pick for the opportunity to sign Mack to probably a top 5 FA contract for his position, which is bad enough.

 

I'd give Oakland a 5th and a ham sandwich, and see if Mack will take less money and another ham sandwich for a contract.  He seems like an attitude risk also.

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32 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Well, we really wouldn't be trading a draft pick for Mack.  We'd be trading a pick for the opportunity to sign Mack to probably a top 5 FA contract for his position, which is bad enough.

 

I'd give Oakland a 5th and a ham sandwich, and see if Mack will take less money and another ham sandwich for a contract.  He seems like an attitude risk also.

Sorry. I'm not even willing to give up a 5th for him -- or that ham sandwich. If the Colts were just "one Khalil Mack away" from putting together a team that could win a Super Bowl, maybe. But they're just not even close to being there yet. By the time the rest of the roster is up to the level of talent to compete for a Lombardi, Mack's career could very well be on the decline. Save the money, save the sandwich, and keep adding talent through the draft. 

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It is clear Ballard and company value everything a player brings (or lacks) to the table, not just ability.  That said, Ballard is also adamant about (re) building the (winning) culture back in to the Colts.  Locker room too.  Outsider FA’s brought in will be vetted strongly for culture fit as well as scheme fit.  In addition, projected production vs. anticipated pay will weigh in.  Nothing rips a negative wave into a locker room quite like massively paying an outsider FA and he comes in and does not produce accordingly.

 

GM’s build four the long haul as much as the upcoming season. 

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I agree. You pass on Khalil Mack. Now Aaron Donald would be another story............

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Not sure of the fit here at DE...but I would gladly trade Simon and our extra 2nd we have next year for Mack. Guy is a double digit sack machine entering his prime. Granted we have to re-sign him but we have tons of money to do that. Everyone complained we didn't go out and get anyone in free agency but Mack is a star.....which we don't have a single one on that defense. Immediate upgrade and someone for our rookies to learn from. We still need help in the secondary but dang pass rushers like him don't grow on trees.

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I would absolutely trade for one of the top defensive players in the league who also happens to play at a huge position of need for the Colts.  Talk about adding an identity, a difference maker and a leader to our defense he fits all the categories.  He should be paid and we are one of the few teams who can pay him.  Luck is the highest paid player on our offense he would be the highest paid player on our defense.  There is nothing wrong with that and I don't think players would have a problem with it.  If the rumors are true then I would think Chris has already started a dialogue to see if we can find a way to make him a Colt.  He's not an old ER, he's entering his prime just like Andrew.  The odds of the Colts finding a player like this in FA or the draft is slim to none.  If there was ever a time to use our resources and cap space this is the time.  

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3 hours ago, dgambill said:

Not sure of the fit here at DE...but I would gladly trade Simon and our extra 2nd we have next year for Mack. Guy is a double digit sack machine entering his prime. Granted we have to re-sign him but we have tons of money to do that. Everyone complained we didn't go out and get anyone in free agency but Mack is a star.....which we don't have a single one on that defense. Immediate upgrade and someone for our rookies to learn from. We still need help in the secondary but dang pass rushers like him don't grow on trees.

 

Neither do Ham Sandwiches.

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 Of course, I'd give up a No. 2 and a No. 3  pick for Mack....and I'd give him an extension.  We are weak defensively.

We need an impact player now and we probably wont get him in the 2019 draft. We have the money.  We have extra picks. We need to be on the phone now.

 

….we may get a compensatory '3' for Frank Gore, anyway right?

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The point is moot as Oakland cant possibly be stupid enough to trade him. But hypothetically, heck yes the Colts should be interested. He's a top 5 pass rusher and the Colts have not been able to rush the passer in years. The starting price would most certainly be a 1st and 2nd if not 2 1sts. It will never ever happen, but a proven top player at arguably the 2nd most important position in football is always worth exploring.

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Somebody from the Colts said this... and I quote-

 

"We gotta get some young foundational pieces here.  I've said that all along. I held back in free agency, because of that I want to be sure we get some young pieces we build around. How do you do that? We gotta draft, and allow them to play."

 

"... We need to be able to get draft classes together, and get 1, 2, 3 and stack those classes together and get us a core group in that locker room that can teach the way we want things to be done."

 

 

 

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As crazy as it sounds there has been some speculation out there that the Raiders might not be able to afford his big contract.  I can't remember where I read it but it has to do with his guaranteed money.  Once he signs the contract it has to be escrowed and they might not have the cash to do it.  Grudens guaranteed contract could be also be coming into play here.  It's hard to believe an NFL team could be cash strapped but I guess it's possible.  They are moving to greener pastures after all. 

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Sometimes unresolved contract negotiation issues between the team and player is a cash flow time table and not necessarily the guaranteed money.  I think Denver had this type issue with Von Miller's contract a couple years ago.

 

From a site I once read-

 

"For salary cap impact a signing bonus is evenly prorated over the number contract years. But the total cash of a signing bonus must placed in escrow at the beginning of the contract. The option bonus is also evenly prorated but may begin sometime after the start of the contract. Roster and workout bonuses are determined annually."

 

This is where GM's and their capologists (if they have one) work magic.  Instead of giving a huge signing bonus, maybe they offer a very large one over a year less (say 2, which fans still call huge), give the next year salary an injury guarantee. Because the long term deal is structured with a huge dead cap hit in year 3, it essentially is guaranteed money, but didn't have to be put in Escrow at the beginning.  And yes, there's a difference between cap and cash.  Anyone following Superman's posts on contracts have picked up on it by now. And even with massive amounts of money flowing around, it is not unlimited, and some teams really watch season and weekly game day ticket and merchandise sales.  Because they add to the teams cash flow capability. Cap space is just a bookkeeping tool to make sure it all evens out at the end.

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Lmao at everyone saying pass to one of the best pass rushers in the league. All I heard all offseason was how we needed pass rush over and over again someone says let's trade for one of the best in the league and the board screams PASS! Haha 

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18 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Lmao at everyone saying pass to one of the best pass rushers in the league. All I heard all offseason was how we needed pass rush over and over again someone says let's trade for one of the best in the league and the board screams PASS! Haha 

 

Have not read through all the responses to the thread.

 

However - it is not nearly as simple as you make it out to be.  What compensation will Oakland ask for in return?  The short answer is a king's ransom, which essentially means difference making players on the roster and / or (mostly or) several high value picks.  And then there is the pesky fact that you will have to set the market to meet his contract demands. 

 

An extremely reasonable case can be made that compensation to Oakland and to Mack makes this very unlikely.

 

If he gets to free agency, then it is a more reasonable option to pursue.  But he won't.  

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i dont see second and third round picks getting it done, it would probably take at least one first and maybe two, and then we have to pay him 

 

we are expected to be bad, so that might help our bargaining with draft picks

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9 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

Sometimes unresolved contract negotiation issues between the team and player is a cash flow time table and not necessarily the guaranteed money.  I think Denver had this type issue with Von Miller's contract a couple years ago.

 

From a site I once read-

 

"For salary cap impact a signing bonus is evenly prorated over the number contract years. But the total cash of a signing bonus must placed in escrow at the beginning of the contract. The option bonus is also evenly prorated but may begin sometime after the start of the contract. Roster and workout bonuses are determined annually."

 

This is where GM's and their capologists (if they have one) work magic.  Instead of giving a huge signing bonus, maybe they offer a very large one over a year less (say 2, which fans still call huge), give the next year salary an injury guarantee. Because the long term deal is structured with a huge dead cap hit in year 3, it essentially is guaranteed money, but didn't have to be put in Escrow at the beginning.  And yes, there's a difference between cap and cash.  Anyone following Superman's posts on contracts have picked up on it by now. And even with massive amounts of money flowing around, it is not unlimited, and some teams really watch season and weekly game day ticket and merchandise sales.  Because they add to the teams cash flow capability. Cap space is just a bookkeeping tool to make sure it all evens out at the end.

So after reading your response the Raiders could indeed be cash scraped and are having a hard time putting his deal together if they even presented one.  Grudens deal could also be effecting it because we don't know how his deal is structured or how much is escrowed.  There could be a ton of his money in escrow for that one.   It takes two to work out a deal so Mack might not be willing to go along with some creative structuring.  He might think he has leverage to force them to escrow or trade him.  Grudens strange stance makes me think something is up and the relationship between Mack and the Raiders could be coming to an end. 

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I can see Ballard trying to repeat this past draft where he gets a 1st back plus extra picks, but I can't ever see him trading away a 1st round pick for a player.

 

I would cringe if he traded a 1st for any player, no matter how good they've been recently.  Trent Richardson is still too fresh in many Colts fans minds to entertain the thought of trading away a 1st...

 

Watch the Pats pull a Randy Moss 2.0 and trade like a 5th rounder to the Raiders for Mack...

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33 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

Watch the Pats pull a Randy Moss 2.0 and trade like a 5th rounder to the Raiders for Mack...

This would hurt my heart. Although highly unlikely, the Pats are known for absolutely stealing players from other teams. They've had their whiffs on guys as well. Phillip Dorsett haha

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9 minutes ago, Matthew Gilbert said:

This would hurt my heart. Although highly unlikely, the Pats are known for absolutely stealing players from other teams. They've had their whiffs on guys as well. Phillip Dorsett haha

How about giving up Brissett and Jimmy G

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15 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

How about giving up Brissett and Jimmy G

The more you think about it they have probably whiffed more than they have hit home runs.

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3 hours ago, jskinnz said:

 

Have not read through all the responses to the thread.

 

However - it is not nearly as simple as you make it out to be.  What compensation will Oakland ask for in return?  The short answer is a king's ransom, which essentially means difference making players on the roster and / or (mostly or) several high value picks.  And then there is the pesky fact that you will have to set the market to meet his contract demands. 

 

An extremely reasonable case can be made that compensation to Oakland and to Mack makes this very unlikely.

 

If he gets to free agency, then it is a more reasonable option to pursue.  But he won't.  

You are right he won't get to FA so we should move to trade for him now.  Who cares if he sets the market?  That will probably last a year.  We set the market with Luck and no one complained.  No difference with a talent like Mack.  Last time I looked we have no difference making players on our defensive roster just a lot of young players with upside.  Draft picks are important but when you put there unknown contributions up against a proven young superstar it's no contest.  So I say let the talks begin.  Ballard did a great job trading leading up to the draft.  No reason he can't make a great trade for Mack leading up to the season. 

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I would enjoy watching Mack In our DEF line up. I am thinking a 2019 2nd and a 2020 3rd. 10.5 sacks and higher past 3 years would be amazing,

Colts were out sacked last year 56 to 25....!

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32 minutes ago, Statiik82 said:

I would enjoy watching Mack In our DEF line up. I am thinking a 2019 2nd and a 2020 3rd. 10.5 sacks and higher past 3 years would be amazing,

Colts were out sacked last year 56 to 25....!

Raiders would likely laugh at that offer. It will take at least one 1st rounder, maybe 2. If Brandin Cooks requires a 1st round price, you can bet Mack will take a lot more than that.

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19 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

Somebody from the Colts said this... and I quote-

 

"We gotta get some young foundational pieces here.  I've said that all along. I held back in free agency, because of that I want to be sure we get some young pieces we build around. How do you do that? We gotta draft, and allow them to play."

 

"... We need to be able to get draft classes together, and get 1, 2, 3 and stack those classes together and get us a core group in that locker room that can teach the way we want things to be done."

 

 

 

"We gotta get some young foundational pieces here"  I would say Mack and Luck would qualify as young pieces we build around.  After all we are trying to win multiple SB's with Luck. Let's add a player of Luck's caliber on defense and accelerate this rebuild. 

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40 minutes ago, Boiler_Colt said:

Raiders would likely laugh at that offer. It will take at least one 1st rounder, maybe 2. If Brandin Cooks requires a 1st round price, you can bet Mack will take a lot more than that.

I agree, the question was what would I give up. 

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7 hours ago, richard pallo said:

You are right he won't get to FA so we should move to trade for him now.  Who cares if he sets the market?  That will probably last a year.  We set the market with Luck and no one complained.  No difference with a talent like Mack.  Last time I looked we have no difference making players on our defensive roster just a lot of young players with upside.  Draft picks are important but when you put there unknown contributions up against a proven young superstar it's no contest.  So I say let the talks begin.  Ballard did a great job trading leading up to the draft.  No reason he can't make a great trade for Mack leading up to the season. 

 

Why don’t you hold your breath for these talks to begin?

 

I tend to deal in reality and this is a pipe dream. 

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1 hour ago, Statiik82 said:

I would enjoy watching Mack In our DEF line up. I am thinking a 2019 2nd and a 2020 3rd. 10.5 sacks and higher past 3 years would be amazing,

Colts were out sacked last year 56 to 25....!

 

That offer does not even get you in the parking lot of the ballpark to what it will take to get him from Oakland

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59 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

"We gotta get some young foundational pieces here"  I would say Mack and Luck would qualify as young pieces we build around.  After all we are trying to win multiple SB's with Luck. Let's add a player of Luck's caliber on defense and accelerate this rebuild. 

 

That's your vision, doesn't appear to be Ballard's.  Chris said he wants to stack the young talent from 3 draft classes to create a young core group that is taught how to play in the new Colts culture/system.  Doesn't mean a FA likely will be added at some point, but not until he drafts as illustrated above and needs a FA piece to cement the final package.

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On 8/7/2018 at 6:28 PM, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

Neither do Ham Sandwiches.

What about Black Forest Ham?:)

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Boiler_Colt said:

Raiders would likely laugh at that offer. It will take at least one 1st rounder, maybe 2. If Brandin Cooks requires a 1st round price, you can bet Mack will take a lot more than that.

No non-quarterback in the NFL is worth two No.1 draft choices and Mack certainly wont draw that...

Mack's price is diminished by what the receiving team knows they'd have to pay him which is 'Von Miller' money.  $20 mil a year

 

There are lots of opinions but the truth is: He isnt in camp in Oakland and reportedly they are not talking.

If that continues a trade could happen....and the Colts are one of the teams that could pay the cost.

And we are also the team most in need of an impact edge rusher. It is our No.1 need.

I'm not interested in building for 2022.   If an all-pro in available..go get him

 

Edited by oldunclemark

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On 8/7/2018 at 12:02 PM, Luck 4 president said:

 

 

it seems like the raiders are done with Mack. Gruden and him aren’t compatible and there is a good possibility he will be traded. Would it make sense, despite our crowded DE unit, to trade for a top 5-10 defensive player? If so what would you give up?

 

Apparently,  the Raiders want Donald Penn to take a pay cut too.

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21 minutes ago, Cynjin said:

 

Apparently,  the Raiders want Donald Penn to take a pay cut too.

Do you understand what they're doing?

I know money is tight..but they do plan to play the season dont they?

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19 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

Do you understand what they're doing?

I know money is tight..but they do plan to play the season dont they?

 

I am not sure what their plans are.   I believe Penn is coming off an injury,  but he is not paid that much relative to other LTs.   Also,  they did take an OT in n the draft. 

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1 minute ago, Cynjin said:

 

I am not sure what their plans are.   I believe Penn is coming off an injury,  but he is not paid that much relative to other LTs.   Also,  they did take an OT in n the draft. 

Old John Gruden may simply not like the hand he has been dealt and is looking at new cards

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27 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

Do you understand what they're doing?

I know money is tight..but they do plan to play the season dont they?

As a Chief fan I love it

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On 8/7/2018 at 3:16 PM, dgambill said:

 pass rushers like him don't grow on trees.

 

On 8/7/2018 at 6:28 PM, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

Neither do Ham Sandwiches.

Reading these 2 responses in such close proximity to each other made me smile. I cannot lie gentlemen. Thank you. 

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2 hours ago, jskinnz said:

 

That offer does not even get you in the parking lot of the ballpark to what it will take to get him from Oakland

 

Darn, street parking offer is the best I got.

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