Could Gruden be tempted to trade Mack now?

[richard pallo]

Crazy question I know but Gruden is Gruden.  It's been reported that the two have NOT EVEN TALKED since Gruden was hired.  They are far apart in contract talks and now not even talking.  Mack hasn't reported and it looks like he is in no hurry.  Standard procedure this time of year for holdouts I know but Grudens stance seems strange for a new HC.  You would think he would reach out to him.  But he hasn't.  Why?  I would think that stance would only cause more of a divide.  Could Gruden be tempted?  I don't know.  But Gruden is Gruden so I guess anything could happen.  Just curious.  

[Boiler_Colt]

Zero chance IMO. Teams don't give up elite pass rushers.

[jskinnz]

10 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Crazy question I know but Gruden is Gruden.  It's been reported that the two have NOT EVEN TALKED since Gruden was hired.  They are far apart in contract talks and now not even talking.  Mack hasn't reported and it looks like he is in no hurry.  Standard procedure this time of year for holdouts I know but Grudens stance seems strange for a new HC.  You would think he would reach out to him.  But he hasn't.  Why?  I would think that stance would only cause more of a divide.  Could Gruden be tempted?  I don't know.  But Gruden is Gruden so I guess anything could happen.  Just curious.  

 

Less than zero % chance of that happening.

[CR91]

gruden would be chased back to ESPN by raider nation if he did that

[aaron11]

what do you think would be a fair trade for both sides?  

 

[richard pallo]

25 minutes ago, CR91 said:

gruden would be chased back to ESPN by raider nation if he did that

He has a 10 yr. deal so I don't think he's going anywhere.  He was quoted yesterday, I believe,  that last year their defense was bad " even with Kahil Mack".  

[CR91]

8 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

He has a 10 yr. deal so I don't think he's going anywhere.  He was quoted yesterday, I believe,  that last year their defense was bad " even with Kahil Mack".  

 

im not a stat guy, but mack had 10.5 sacks. that is not bad. you don't blame one player for the overall team unless youre the QB, but hey it comes with the territory  

[richard pallo]

14 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

what do you think would be a fair trade for both sides?  

 

Well here's a starter.  Our 1st and 2nd. in the coming draft.  We still have the Jet's second and any player on our current defensive roster that he wants.  

[Superman]

1 hour ago, richard pallo said:

Crazy question I know but Gruden is Gruden.  It's been reported that the two have NOT EVEN TALKED since Gruden was hired.  They are far apart in contract talks and now not even talking.  Mack hasn't reported and it looks like he is in no hurry.  Standard procedure this time of year for holdouts I know but Grudens stance seems strange for a new HC.  You would think he would reach out to him.  But he hasn't.  Why?  I would think that stance would only cause more of a divide.  Could Gruden be tempted?  I don't know.  But Gruden is Gruden so I guess anything could happen.  Just curious.  

 

Would YOU trade Khalil Mack? Or would it be a non-starter?

 

Also, I'm not a fan of Gruden and I don't necessarily like what he's doing in Oakland (before any games have been played, so it doesn't really matter), but I don't think the Mack contract situation is Gruden's fault. McKenzie is the GM, I would expect him to be leading the way on this. It's no more Gruden's fault that Mack isn't signed than it is McVay's fault that Donald isn't signed, IMO.

[csmopar]

3 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Would YOU trade Khalil Mack? Or would it be a non-starter?

 

Also, I'm not a fan of Gruden and I don't necessarily like what he's doing in Oakland (before any games have been played, so it doesn't really matter), but I don't think the Mack contract situation is Gruden's fault. McKenzie is the GM, I would expect him to be leading the way on this. It's no more Gruden's fault that Mack isn't signed than it is McVay's fault that Donald isn't signed, IMO.

not that i disagree but for a HC not to reach out and talk to a star player, thats an issue. 

[jskinnz]

23 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Well here's a starter.  Our 1st and 2nd. in the coming draft.  We still have the Jet's second and any player on our current defensive roster that he wants.  

 

That does not get you in the ballpark of what they will want.

 

 

[Superman]

43 minutes ago, csmopar said:

not that i disagree but for a HC not to reach out and talk to a star player, thats an issue. 

 

It would be better if they had talked, but I don't think that has any bearing on the contract negotiations. It's about money, and I don't think Gruden is setting those numbers.

[richard pallo]

1 hour ago, jskinnz said:

 

That does not get you in the ballpark of what they will want.

 

 

I don't know what they would want.  No one does.  Just because a team wants a high price doesn't mean they will get it.  You have to start somewhere.  Circumstances force teams to give and take if they want to get a deal done.  The acquiring team also has to have the wherewithal to sign him   which narrows the field.  I think we would be in the ballpark to get talks started which was what I said. 

[jskinnz]

Just now, richard pallo said:

I don't know what they would want.  No one does.  Just because a team wants a high price doesn't mean they will get it.  You have to start somewhere.  Circumstances force teams to give and take if they want to get a deal done.  The acquiring team also has to have the wherewithal to sign him   which narrows the field.  I think we would be in the ballpark to get talks started which was what I said. 

 

Sorry, but you ain't close to what the Raiders would ask for and accept.

 

Further, I doubt Ballard would want to give up the picks necessary to make such a trade happen.

 

Lastly, this is all absolute nonsense anyway because the Raiders ARE NOT going to trade him.

[Rackeen305]

3 hours ago, richard pallo said:

Crazy question I know but Gruden is Gruden.  It's been reported that the two have NOT EVEN TALKED since Gruden was hired.  They are far apart in contract talks and now not even talking.  Mack hasn't reported and it looks like he is in no hurry.  Standard procedure this time of year for holdouts I know but Grudens stance seems strange for a new HC.  You would think he would reach out to him.  But he hasn't.  Why?  I would think that stance would only cause more of a divide.  Could Gruden be tempted?  I don't know.  But Gruden is Gruden so I guess anything could happen.  Just curious.  

Any bidders/takers for a player in mint condition?

[richard pallo]

7 minutes ago, jskinnz said:

 

Sorry, but you ain't close to what the Raiders would ask for and accept.

 

Further, I doubt Ballard would want to give up the picks necessary to make such a trade happen.

 

Lastly, this is all absolute nonsense anyway because the Raiders ARE NOT going to trade him.

  I said my suggestion was a starter.  Also I don't think Ballard would give up a ton of picks.  But he might give up some picks and players.   I'm not saying a trade is going to happen but it wouldn't surprise me if things got worse with Mack and the Raiders.  And if it does anything can happen.  We shall see. 

[richard pallo]

8 minutes ago, Rackeen305 said:

Any bidders/takers for a player in mint condition?

I would think there would be a lot of interest from the teams with cap space. 

[HarryTheCat]

4 hours ago, richard pallo said:

Well here's a starter.  Our 1st and 2nd. in the coming draft.  We still have the Jet's second and any player on our current defensive roster that he wants.  

Think about that deal this way. Would you be willing to give up Quenton Nelson, Darius Leonard, and probably Malik Hooker to get him? Then, on top of that, you still have to sign Mack. Spotrack estimates his market value at 5 years/$91.5 million, and you'd have to guarantee a big chunk of that. If Ballard even hinted that he might offer that deal, Colts' fans would be grabbing pitchforks and torches and gathering on his front lawn. 

 

Nope. Let's let the Raiders deal with Mr. Mack, and then go get our own guy, on a rookie contract, in next year's draft. 

[richard pallo]

2 minutes ago, HarryTheCat said:

Think about that deal this way. Would you be willing to give up Quenton Nelson, Darius Leonard, and probably Malik Hooker to get him? Then, on top of that, you still have to sign Mack. Spotrack estimates his market value at 5 years/$91.5 million, and you'd have to guarantee a big chunk of that. If Ballard even hinted that he might offer that deal, Colts' fans would be grabbing pitchforks and torches and gathering on his front lawn. 

 

Nope. Let's let the Raiders deal with Mr. Mack, and then go get our own guy, on a rookie contract, in next year's draft. 

To be honest there is no way I would trade Nelson, Luck and a few other players.  But for Mack I wouldn't have a hard time at all in giving up Leonard or Hooker.  I think Colts' fans would love it if Mack was on the team.  But that's just my opinion.  

[Superman]

3 hours ago, richard pallo said:

  I said my suggestion was a starter.  Also I don't think Ballard would give up a ton of picks.  But he might give up some picks and players.   I'm not saying a trade is going to happen but it wouldn't surprise me if things got worse with Mack and the Raiders.  And if it does anything can happen.  We shall see. 

 

Mack has zero leverage. He'll report for duty at some point, probably play this season out, then get tagged next year and start all over again. If necessary, the Raiders would likely tag him in 2020 also. 

 

If he doesn't report for duty, he walks away from almost $14m in pay this season, and doesn't earn an accrued season, further delaying his free agency.

 

I really dislike the way the tag and fifth year option are being used by teams, but until that changes, players like Mack are stuck playing by these rules. (I don't necessarily feel sorry for players making tens of millions, but the teams are not negotiating in good faith or operating in accordance with the spirit of the rule.)

 

So unless someone makes the Raiders a Godfather offer, Mack isn't going anywhere. When Kobe Bryant demanded a trade in 2007, Jerry Buss told him 'you're a 5 carat diamond; I'm not going to trade you for five 1 carat diamonds, the value doesn't match.' (Credit John Ireland for reminding me of that story just a few days ago.) Same thing with any star player. If you want to trade for someone like Mack, you have to put together an obscene package just to start the conversation. 

[Rackeen305]

14 hours ago, HarryTheCat said:

Think about that deal this way. Would you be willing to give up Quenton Nelson, Darius Leonard, and probably Malik Hooker to get him? Then, on top of that, you still have to sign Mack. Spotrack estimates his market value at 5 years/$91.5 million, and you'd have to guarantee a big chunk of that. If Ballard even hinted that he might offer that deal, Colts' fans would be grabbing pitchforks and torches and gathering on his front lawn. 

 

Nope. Let's let the Raiders deal with Mr. Mack, and then go get our own guy, on a rookie contract, in next year's draft. 

Who uses pitchforks and torches anyways? lol

[csmopar]

13 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Mack has zero leverage. He'll report for duty at some point, probably play this season out, then get tagged next year and start all over again. If necessary, the Raiders would likely tag him in 2020 also. 

 

If he doesn't report for duty, he walks away from almost $14m in pay this season, and doesn't earn an accrued season, further delaying his free agency.

 

I really dislike the way the tag and fifth year option are being used by teams, but until that changes, players like Mack are stuck playing by these rules. (I don't necessarily feel sorry for players making tens of millions, but the teams are not negotiating in good faith or operating in accordance with the spirit of the rule.)

 

So unless someone makes the Raiders a Godfather offer, Mack isn't going anywhere. When Kobe Bryant demanded a trade in 2007, Jerry Buss told him 'you're a 5 carat diamond; I'm not going to trade you for five 1 carat diamonds, the value doesn't match.' (Credit John Ireland for reminding me of that story just a few days ago.) Same thing with any star player. If you want to trade for someone like Mack, you have to put together an obscene package just to start the conversation. 

He's also being fined 30,000 per day missing camp.

 

Report now is that the Raiders and Mack's agent haven't talked contract since the early spring.  Not sure what's going on here, maybe Mack is trying to force a trade, I don't know what else him or his agent think they'd be gaining here.

[Four2itus]

Just a vet using leverage to skip camp. He'll be there...and he'll play. And he'll be in shape.

 

Much ado about nothing.

[OhioColt]

Raiders / Colts trade

 

Raiders send DE Khalil Mack to the Colts in exchange for QB Jacoby Brissett and TE Erik Swoope.  IMO that is a even first round trades with Kahlil and Brissett.  Swoope already being mentioned as being tradable before the 53-man roster cuts.  No sense in keeping two top 20 QBs on our roster when a "generational" player like Mack is very possibly tradable given the current ongoing situation.  

 

Raiders may ask for more compensation and at maximum would counter with 2019 NY Jets 2nd Round pick.  However, I was hoping to keep both Round 2 selections and trade both plus our Round 5 to move up to ~ pick 18 in Round 1 - 2019 draft.  2019 draft will see a lot of talented defensive lineman go within t15.  Am hoping the Colts can wheel-and-deal like the Browns/Patriots have done and acquire a pair of first round draft picks.  Next year I would love to be able to get one of these DTs Dexter Lawrence, Raekwon Davis, or Christian Wilkins than take linebacker Devin White or Mack Wilson with the later.

[OhioColt]

Raiders / Colts Trade update...

 

Was not aware that LT Donald Penn from the Raiders is being asked to take a pay cut and is also being considered a trade option now that the Raiders have drafted LT Kolton Miller.   May have to sweeten that trade pot to acquire both Mack and Penn seeing how Anthony Castonzo re-injured his hamstring.  Guess it all depends on how Penn is recovering from foot surgery and the timetable to play.  That would give us another pro-bowl caliber LT that should not have much left before retiring within the next few years.  Who knows one may actually be more than capable as a starting RT.  Either way, hopefully long enough to eventually find Castonzo's draft replacement in 2020-2021.  Am expecting the Colts to focus early on DL and LBs next year in FA and in the draft.

[rock8591]

Pay the man but don't overpay.

 

Half the veteran's minimum should be enough.

[Superman]

The conversation to trade for a player like Mack starts with two first rounders. The Colts aren't trading for Khalil Mack.

[2006Coltsbestever]

11 minutes ago, Superman said:

The conversation to trade for a player like Mack starts with two first rounders. The Colts aren't trading for Khalil Mack.

Yeah Ballard isn't giving up 2 1st Rounders.

[richard pallo]

8 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah Ballard isn't giving up 2 1st Rounders.

I'm not so sure.  He can count on getting a 2nd. for Brissett maybe a 1st.  And I'm not sure it would take two 1st's.  I'm thinking more like a 1st. a 2nd. and a player.  A team that trades for him also has to have a need and the cap space.  Not a heck of a lot of teams can be serious suitors.   If he turns out to be a headache or a distraction it might make sense to lower your asking price and move on as well. 

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, richard pallo said:

I'm not so sure.  He can count on getting a 2nd. for Brissett maybe a 1st.  And I'm not sure it would take two 1st's.  I'm thinking more like a 1st. a 2nd. and a player.  A team that trades for him also has to have a need and the cap space.  Not a heck of a lot of teams can be serious suitors.   If he turns out to be a headache or a distraction it might make sense to lower your asking price and move on as well. 

 

You think we’re getting a 1 or a 2 for Brissett?   Really?   Because of Irsay’s recent comments?    They mostly worthless.

 

Put it this way, Washington paid a 3 and a starting CB for Alex Smith.   You think Brissett is almost as valuable as Smith?    Not me.

 

I think if we get a 3 for Brissett the front office would be happy.  Anything more they’d be thrilled as that’s highway robbery.   

 

And remember, I like Brissett.   I’m not down on him.  I just want to be realistic.  

 

[richard pallo]

4 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

You think we’re getting a 1 or a 2 for Brissett?   Really?   Because of Irsay’s recent comments?    They mostly worthless.

 

Put it this way, Washington paid a 3 and a starting CB for Alex Smith.   You think Brissett is almost as valuable as Smith?    Not me.

 

I think if we get a 3 for Brissett the front office would be happy.  Anything more they’d be thrilled as that’s highway robbery.   

 

And remember, I like Brissett.   I’m not down on him.  I just want to be realistic.  

 

Smith is 34 and Brissett is 25.  That's a huge difference.  Brisett is more valuable as a young starter with his best years ahead of him versus Smith with his best years behind him.  I don't think a second or even a 1st. is out of the question.  He's a proven starter at age 25.  No problems no baggage.  All he needs is his own team.  

[Dark Superman]

Gruden would be an absolute * if he trades away Mack.

[richard pallo]

1 hour ago, Savage21 said:

Gruden would be an absolute * if he trades away Mack.

There are reports that they might not be able to afford him.  Peter King is even talking and writing about it.  It is a theory that is starting to get legs. 

[HarryTheCat]

On 8/14/2018 at 7:40 PM, Savage21 said:

Gruden would be an absolute * if he trades away Mack.

I don't think a trade decision would be up to Gruden. Owner Mark Davis and GM Reggie McKenzie would have the final say in the matter, and I don't see them letting Mack go. 

[B~Town]

On ‎7‎/‎31‎/‎2018 at 1:47 PM, jskinnz said:

 

That does not get you in the ballpark of what they will want.

 

 

If our pick is anywhere near where predicted its actually right on point with past deals with star non QB players .

[crazycolt1]

On ‎8‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 8:40 PM, Savage21 said:

Gruden would be an absolute * if he trades away Mack.

I don't think Gruden has the authority to trade any player.  He is the head coach, not the GM.

[jskinnz]

46 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I don't think Gruden has the authority to trade any player.  He is the head coach, not the GM.

 

Gruden has a 10 year contract and the belief from ownership that he is the savior.  He swings the bigger ax between him and Reggie McKenzie.

 

Ideally they would be on the same page but if it got to differing wishes on what to do with Mack, Gruden wins.

[richard pallo]

Another kicker that is out there is "cash" being part of a trade package.  There many articles and posts about the trade possibilities now.  And I read where someone even suggested that cash could be included in a trade package,  The amount I recall is 8 or 10M.  I want to say it was in one of the many Silver and Black pride articles but I'm not sure.  There are many reports that they are not in a good situation with cash as we know.   So I guess it's possible.  Don't know if Jim Irsay would include cash in a proposed trade but it's an interesting idea and it might reduce the number of picks required in a trade.  Just a thought. 

[crazycolt1]

2 hours ago, jskinnz said:

 

Gruden has a 10 year contract and the belief from ownership that he is the savior.  He swings the bigger ax between him and Reggie McKenzie.

 

Ideally they would be on the same page but if it got to differing wishes on what to do with Mack, Gruden wins.

You may be right but we haven't had enough examples to see how that is going to work out.

IMO  putting the future of the team in Gruden's hands would be a mistake.