Jared Cisneros

Any news on Leonard or Braden Smith signing their contracts?

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I was joking about this originally when the other 9 picks all signed their contracts quickly and thought it was no big deal. However, seeing how OTA's are now over and neither have signed yet, it has me a bit worried. Has there been any news on either signing at this point? The contracts should be set based on where you got drafted, and they are both 2nd round picks, so it should be pretty cut and dry. Only thing I can think of is that Braden wants to be paid the same as Leonard because they are basically the same pick back-to-back. This honestly shouldn't be taking so long, and I'm starting to worry now.

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Leonard is finishing up his degree from what I’ve heard. I’m not sure about Smith though. 

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Just now, a06cc said:

Leonard is finishing up his degree from what I’ve heard. I’m not sure about Smith though. 

Thanks a06, I wasn't sure how long it'd take to finish it. I remember when I graduated high school in 2005, graduation day was on May 28, so I thought he'd be done by now. Hopefully Braden Smith isn't throwing a fit over being drafting 1 spot lower than Leonard and holding out over a minuscule amount of money. We'll get good news soon on it hopefully. Don't want them not to be able to play during training camp.

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5 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Thanks a06, I wasn't sure how long it'd take to finish it. I remember when I graduated high school in 2005, graduation day was on May 28, so I thought he'd be done by now. Hopefully Braden Smith isn't throwing a fit over being drafting 1 spot lower than Leonard and holding out over a minuscule amount of money. We'll get good news soon on it hopefully. Don't want them not to be able to play during training camp.

 

He can't negotiate the amount of money.  

 

I wouldn't consider it a big deal at this point.  I'd get worried if they arn't signed by training camp.  

 

Also the term holding out I don't think applies here.  A player who is holding out doesn't participate in OTA's, Minicamp, training camp or games because of a contract dispute.  Maybe there is a dispute over contract terms going on here but if that is the case then that dispute hasn't thus far led to either one not participating in team activities.  

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2 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

He can't negotiate the amount of money.  

 

I wouldn't consider it a big deal at this point.  I'd get worried if they arn't signed by training camp.  

 

Also the term holding out I don't think applies here.  A player who is holding out doesn't participate in OTA's, Minicamp, training camp or games because of a contract dispute.  Maybe there is a dispute over contract terms going on here but if that is the case then that dispute hasn't thus far led to either one not participating in team activities.  

I do remember Braden playing in OTA's, so it's definitely good news there. I just wish they would sign soon. Leonard is probably good if it's just school related. I'm guessing it might be guaranteed money or something if Braden can't negotiate the amount of money he receives.

 

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According to Spotrac... the total $$$ difference over their entire projected 4-yr deals is 55k. 

 

There must be something else holding things up.

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24 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I do remember Braden playing in OTA's, so it's definitely good news there. I just wish they would sign soon. Leonard is probably good if it's just school related. I'm guessing it might be guaranteed money or something if Braden can't negotiate the amount of money he receives.

 

about the only thing they can negotiate is the offseason bonuses and when they're paid out.  that's it.  And even then, there are restrictions.   As for guaranteed money, the amount is also limited by the league.   

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I think Darius Leonard is patenting his DNA and sorting that matter out because we do not know what is in his DNA , only a few do (cough, cough, the poster who mentioned that a while ago :)).

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1 hour ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Thanks a06, I wasn't sure how long it'd take to finish it. I remember when I graduated high school in 2005, graduation day was on May 28, so I thought he'd be done by now. Hopefully Braden Smith isn't throwing a fit over being drafting 1 spot lower than Leonard and holding out over a minuscule amount of money. We'll get good news soon on it hopefully. Don't want them not to be able to play during training camp.

Quarters take a bit longer 

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If he's finishing school, then that's totally cool. 

 

Don't be a fool, that's a good rule. 

 

Maybe I'll take a dip in the....ok I'm done sorry 

 

 

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8 hours ago, dodsworth said:

Holdout flakes. They are missing valuable time on the field as rookies.

 

Sorry,  but No.   They are NOT missing time on the field because they're holding out.   Both have already been on the practice field.

 

They have other issues.   Leonard missed time because he was in school trying to graduate.   Just like Andrew Luck did.    Both have missed time due to minor health issues. 

 

This is not a contract holdout.    If it was,  I think some media-type would've reported that by now. 

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43 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Sorry,  but No.   They are NOT missing time on the field because they're holding out.   Both have already been on the practice field.

 

They have other issues.   Leonard missed time because he was in school trying to graduate.   Just like Andrew Luck did.    Both have missed time due to minor health issues. 

 

This is not a contract holdout.    If it was,  I think some media-type would've reported that by now. 

If it wasn't a contract holdout, wouldn't they of signed their contracts by now? I understand injury issues, but that shouldn't keep you from signing an NFL contract. 

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52 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

If it wasn't a contract holdout, wouldn't they of signed their contracts by now? I understand injury issues, but that shouldn't keep you from signing an NFL contract. 

 

Yes,  they are still negotiating their contracts,  but to my knowledge, this is not the reason they're not practicing.    

 

If it was the reason, why has no media outlet reported that?    Why haven't the Colts said that?    You'd think someone would've said that by now and someone would've posted that here by now.   But that hasn't happened.  Until I see it coming out as THE reason for the two to not be practicing then I'm not going to be calling it a holdout.

 

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2 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Yes,  they are still negotiating their contracts,  but to my knowledge, this is not the reason they're not practicing.    

 

If it was the reason, why has no media outlet reported that?    Why haven't the Colts said that?    You'd think someone would've said that by now and someone would've posted that here by now.   But that hasn't happened.  Until I see it coming out as THE reason for the two to not be practicing then I'm not going to be calling it a holdout.

 

The media outside of the Colts could care less about a couple of 2nd round picks possibly holding out at this point. Most people don't watch the draft past the 1st round and don't know who these guys are. The Colts always like to hide things from the fans and are generally dishonest until they are forced to reveal them. You can look to Luck's injury last year for that one. The Colts wouldn't reveal anything until training camp started and they weren't participating. They are slimy like that and would hope they would sign before then so they wouldn't have to mention it. The Colts FO doesn't ever want to paint the team in any negative light. I do think the media would say something a couple weeks before training camp, however, when talking about if there were any draft picks that haven't signed their contracts yet. In this case, they would be more honest than the Colts or their FO about this issue.

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As of 5/31/18, about 207 of the 256 total 2018 NFL draft picks (81%) have agreed to contracts. This is one of the most rapid rates of signings ever. The 2011  CBA has made it easy to sign players. But not everything is locked in so sometimes there are delays in signing a player.

 

Things that can still be negotiated-

 

Size of the signing bonus - this can be amortized over the length of the contract, but it is essentially guaranteed money.

 

Timing of signing bonus payments. Teams attempt to defer portions of a large signing bonus. They want the use of the money, and to time payments made from television and other sources with the payouts.

 

Whether the salaries are guaranteed for skill (performance) and/or injury.

 

Offset language, capability to reduce salary if a player is let go and said player end up on another team roster with pay.

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39 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

The media outside of the Colts could care less about a couple of 2nd round picks possibly holding out at this point. Most people don't watch the draft past the 1st round and don't know who these guys are. The Colts always like to hide things from the fans and are generally dishonest until they are forced to reveal them. You can look to Luck's injury last year for that one. The Colts wouldn't reveal anything until training camp started and they weren't participating. They are slimy like that and would hope they would sign before then so they wouldn't have to mention it. The Colts FO doesn't ever want to paint the team in any negative light. I do think the media would say something a couple weeks before training camp, however, when talking about if there were any draft picks that haven't signed their contracts yet. In this case, they would be more honest than the Colts or their FO about this issue.

 

It doesn't matter that the rest of the world doesn't care about the Colts.

 

Do you live in Indianapolis?    That's all you need.   There are newspapers, radio, tv, internet and NO ONE is calling this a holdout.   Those people care about second round picks, it's not just you and me.   Until some Indy media outlet calls this a holdout, it's not.    Until the Colts conform it's a holdout, it's not.

 

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19 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

It doesn't matter that the rest of the world doesn't care about the Colts.

 

Do you live in Indianapolis?    That's all you need.   There are newspapers, radio, tv, internet and NO ONE is calling this a holdout.   Those people care about second round picks, it's not just you and me.   Until some Indy media outlet calls this a holdout, it's not.    Until the Colts conform it's a holdout, it's not.

 

I do not live in Indy, I live in Colorado. Again, the media won't call it a holdout until it's close to training camp, and the Colts won't call it a holdout until it actually is training camp. Irsay is a businessman and an owner, and his job is to keep the casuals uninformed about the negatives, and promote the positives. That's good marketing, and how a business owner makes money of uninformed people. It's not a big deal because we're months away from training camp, when it gets closer and they aren't signed yet, then they will talk about it and eventually the Colts FO will be forced to reveal it if they aren't participating in training camp and even the casuals are starting to wonder why the new draft picks aren't playing in preseason games.

 

Also, you don't live in Indy either, so I don't know what inside info you have that people in Indy supposedly have. I know you live in Los Angeles.

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56 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I do not live in Indy, I live in Colorado. Again, the media won't call it a holdout until it's close to training camp, and the Colts won't call it a holdout until it actually is training camp. Irsay is a businessman and an owner, and his job is to keep the casuals uninformed about the negatives, and promote the positives. That's good marketing, and how a business owner makes money of uninformed people. It's not a big deal because we're months away from training camp, when it gets closer and they aren't signed yet, then they will talk about it and eventually the Colts FO will be forced to reveal it if they aren't participating in training camp and even the casuals are starting to wonder why the new draft picks aren't playing in preseason games.

 

Also, you don't live in Indy either, so I don't know what inside info you have that people in Indy supposedly have. I know you live in Los Angeles.

 

I'm sorry I haven't been more clear,  because this is really not that hard to understand.

 

Even if you think that Jim Irsay, Chris Ballard and Frank Reich have all taken a blood oath to not use the world "holdout" for Leonard and Smith,  that doesn't stop the Indy media from investigating on their own.     And they will.      Two high 2nd round picks holding out IS news.    It's big news.

 

And it's not that hard to get the phone numbers for the players themselves to ask them directly.    Or to call the agents of the players.     Or to call the families of the players.      Media does that stuff all the time.     And even if you think the Indy media SUCKS,  someone in the Indy media would've done this by now and reported it by now.

 

That's news.

 

Has anyone reported this?      No.      If they had,  someone would've posted it here for all of us to see and that hasn't happened.

 

Next week is the mandatory mini-camp and then the players get their vacation,  about 45 days.    I'm expecting Ballard/Reich to hold a press conference on the last day of camp.    And I'd expect someone in the media to ask them about the status of Leonard and Smith.     And until there's a credible story saying this is a holdout,  then I don't see one.      There are other reasons at play.

 

The players can still be practicing even without a signed contract.    Their guaranteed money is still guaranteed for injury even without a signed contract.      I have to believe there is something else going on besides a contract holdout that's keeping the players off the field.

 

You're free to believe otherwise.....

 

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15 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I'm sorry I haven't been more clear,  because this is really not that hard to understand.

 

Even if you think that Jim Irsay, Chris Ballard and Frank Reich have all taken a blood oath to not use the world "holdout" for Leonard and Smith,  that doesn't stop the Indy media from investigating on their own.     And they will.      Two high 2nd round picks holding out IS news.    It's big news.

 

And it's not that hard to get the phone numbers for the players themselves to ask them directly.    Or to call the agents of the players.     Or to call the families of the players.      Media does that stuff all the time.     And even if you think the Indy media SUCKS,  someone in the Indy media would've done this by now and reported it by now.

 

That's news.

 

Has anyone reported this?      No.      If they had,  someone would've posted it here for all of us to see and that hasn't happened.

 

Next week is the mandatory mini-camp and then the players get their vacation,  about 45 days.    I'm expecting Ballard/Reich to hold a press conference on the last day of camp.    And I'd expect someone in the media to ask them about the status of Leonard and Smith.     And until there's a credible story saying this is a holdout,  then I don't see one.      There are other reasons at play.

 

The players can still be practicing even without a signed contract.    Their guaranteed money is still guaranteed for injury even without a signed contract.      I have to believe there is something else going on besides a contract holdout that's keeping the players off the field.

 

You're free to believe otherwise.....

 

I honestly am not sure at this point, just frustrated that something suspicious is always going on with this team. If we're not in the news for the wrong reasons, then it's something like injuries. Just hoping for a season that I can enjoy this year. Was very excited after the draft, now I'm feeling very concerned with the number of non-participants in OTA's due to injuries (they seem to nag the players), the non-signings, and getting the run around about Luck's injury. I feel like a dog chasing his tail with no prize at the end. My optimism has turned to frustration.

 

Sorry for the rant...

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Unsigned drafted players (as of 6/8/2018) NFL-

 

Player                        Overall     Round

 

Baker Mayfield              #1         1
Saquon Barkely            #2         1
Sam Darnold                 #3         1
Denzel Ward                 #4         1
Bradley Chubb              #5         1
Josh Allen                      #7         1
Roquan Smith              #8         1
Mike McGlinchey         #9         1
Isaiah Wynn                #23        1
DJ Moore                     #24        1
Hayden Hurst             #25        1
Calvin Ridley               #26        1
Terrell Edmunds         #28        1
Taven Bryan               #29        1
Mike Hughes              #30        1
Sony Michel                #31        1

 

Darius Leonard          #36        2
Braden Smith             #37        2
Ronald Jones             #38        2
Harold Landry            #41        2
Mike Gesecki             #42        2
Dante Pettis              #44        2

 

Fred Warner              #70        3
Royce Freeman         #71        3
Geron Christia           #74        3
Derrick Nnadi            #75        3
Sam Hubbard             #77        3
Malik Jefferson          #78        3
Rasheem Green         #79        3
Arden Key                  #87        3


RJ McIntosh                #139       5

 

Plus every single L.A. Rams draft pick ( 11 players from round 3 to round 7 )

Looks like 214 out of 256 are signed now.

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10 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

The Colts always like to hide things from the fans and are generally dishonest until they are forced to reveal them. You can look to Luck's injury last year for that one. The Colts wouldn't reveal anything until training camp started and they weren't participating. They are slimy like that and would hope they would sign before then so they wouldn't have to mention it.

 

Dude, you gotta let it go...

 

I know you have a thirst for everything-Colts, we all do, but that doesn't mean we're entitled to all the information we want to know.  Try being a Pats fan wanting to know the status of Gronks latest injury and where he is in the recovery process.  How forthcoming you think the Pats are with that information?  They're just like every other franchise, they want fans showing up to see Gronk, even though he might not play, so they don't divulge medical information that might keep some casual fans away.

 

The Colts did the same thing every other team does with injured players, it just feels like a HUGE deal because it's Andrew Luck, who's probably the most important player on any team in the NFL, and his recovery didn't go as well as everyone expected.

 

Did you get this worked up about Tyler Varga?  His recovery didn't go well, and the Colts weren't very forthcoming about what was taking so long for him to return...

 

Every team does this every year.  I don't know why you keep holding a grudge about one player.

 

:dunno:

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26 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

Dude, you gotta let it go...

 

I know you have a thirst for everything-Colts, we all do, but that doesn't mean we're entitled to all the information we want to know.  Try being a Pats fan wanting to know the status of Gronks latest injury and where he is in the recovery process.  How forthcoming you think the Pats are with that information?  They're just like every other franchise, they want fans showing up to see Gronk, even though he might not play, so they don't divulge medical information that might keep some casual fans away.

 

The Colts did the same thing every other team does with injured players, it just feels like a HUGE deal because it's Andrew Luck, who's probably the most important player on any team in the NFL, and his recovery didn't go as well as everyone expected.

 

Did you get this worked up about Tyler Varga?  His recovery didn't go well, and the Colts weren't very forthcoming about what was taking so long for him to return...

 

Every team does this every year.  I don't know why you keep holding a grudge about one player.

 

:dunno:

It doesn't feel like a huge deal, it is a huge deal because it's Andrew Luck. No individual player is anywhere near as important as him. I didn't get as worked up about Varga because he was a FB, but that doesn't mean the Colts FO didn't lie about him too. In fact, you admitted they lied about that as well, which just proves my point. 

 

The Pats can do it and get away with it because they have credibility as a franchise. Half the time they go to the SB. So they lie about an injury or whatever, and the fans can go along with what happened and trust the process knowing things are likely to work out. It's not like that with the Colts. Anyone who has put their trust in Irsay since 2012 has been let down because Grigson and Pagano didn't know what they were doing, and now we are getting the runaround on Luck the last couple years. Irsay, Ballard, and Reich have 0 credibility when it comes to their word, and so far, there's 0 reason to believe things are going to work themselves out until Luck is officially back to full health. Add Leonard and Braden not signing and it just adds frustration for me. 

 

I'll stop holding a grudge once they stop wasting my time and actually keep their word about something. Like I told NCF, I've gone from being optimistic to being very frustrated again. 

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4 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I didn't get as worked up about Varga because he was a FB, but that doesn't mean the Colts FO didn't lie about him too. In fact, you admitted they lied about that as well, which just proves my point. 

 

Uh, false.  I never said the Colts lied about anything, I just said they weren't very forthcoming about Varga (and he was a HB who also did some returning on ST, not a FB)  But you just made my point:  because it's Andrew Luck, you have your shorts in a wad.  If Andrew Luck had been healthy the last few years, you wouldn't have as big of an issue with the Colts FO.

 

My point was that EVERY front office isn't as forthcoming about injuries as the fans would like.  So according to you, every owner, GM, and HC in the NFL has zero credibility when it comes to this, except the Pats apparently because they keep winning.  (Sidenote - if the Colts had won 12 games and made the playoffs with Jacoby Brissett, would that have made everything OK for you?)

 

Do you remember the uproar over Cam Newton taking a shot to the face at the goalline in a game, and there were questions for the next few weeks about whether or not he had a concussion and if the Panthers were being honest about it or trying to mask it so that fans would think he was going to start the next game?

 

If you have such an issue with teams not being forthcoming enough about injured players, make sure you throw EVERY team under the bus for EVERY player they do this with, and not just the Colts because of Andrew Luck.

 

:hat:

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23 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I do remember Braden playing in OTA's, so it's definitely good news there. I just wish they would sign soon. Leonard is probably good if it's just school related. I'm guessing it might be guaranteed money or something if Braden can't negotiate the amount of money he receives.

 

What really shocked me is a guy who didn't sign a contract is practicing at organized team activities. That's just plain stupid. He gets hurt he gets a settlement nothing near what his contract would be

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2 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

Unsigned drafted players (as of 6/8/2018) NFL-

 

Player                        Overall     Round

 

Baker Mayfield              #1         1
Saquon Barkely            #2         1
Sam Darnold                 #3         1
Denzel Ward                 #4         1
Bradley Chubb              #5         1
Josh Allen                      #7         1
Roquan Smith              #8         1
Mike McGlinchey         #9         1
Isaiah Wynn                #23        1
DJ Moore                     #24        1
Hayden Hurst             #25        1
Calvin Ridley               #26        1
Terrell Edmunds         #28        1
Taven Bryan               #29        1
Mike Hughes              #30        1
Sony Michel                #31        1

 

Darius Leonard          #36        2
Braden Smith             #37        2
Ronald Jones             #38        2
Harold Landry            #41        2
Mike Gesecki             #42        2
Dante Pettis              #44        2

 

Fred Warner              #70        3
Royce Freeman         #71        3
Geron Christia           #74        3
Derrick Nnadi            #75        3
Sam Hubbard             #77        3
Malik Jefferson          #78        3
Rasheem Green         #79        3
Arden Key                  #87        3


RJ McIntosh                #139       5

 

Plus every single L.A. Rams draft pick ( 11 players from round 3 to round 7 )

Looks like 214 out of 256 are signed now.

 it's funny that I V round draft pick hasn't signed his contract on every other player in the fourth and fifth round has already signed

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23 hours ago, dodsworth said:

Holdout flakes. They are missing valuable time on the field as rookies.

Except that you can practice without a contract in OTA's. Smith has participated in every practice. Leonard has an injury or else he would as well.

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1 hour ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

Uh, false.  I never said the Colts lied about anything, I just said they weren't very forthcoming about Varga (and he was a HB who also did some returning on ST, not a FB)  But you just made my point:  because it's Andrew Luck, you have your shorts in a wad.  If Andrew Luck had been healthy the last few years, you wouldn't have as big of an issue with the Colts FO.

 

My point was that EVERY front office isn't as forthcoming about injuries as the fans would like.  So according to you, every owner, GM, and HC in the NFL has zero credibility when it comes to this, except the Pats apparently because they keep winning.  (Sidenote - if the Colts had won 12 games and made the playoffs with Jacoby Brissett, would that have made everything OK for you?)

 

Do you remember the uproar over Cam Newton taking a shot to the face at the goalline in a game, and there were questions for the next few weeks about whether or not he had a concussion and if the Panthers were being honest about it or trying to mask it so that fans would think he was going to start the next game?

 

If you have such an issue with teams not being forthcoming enough about injured players, make sure you throw EVERY team under the bus for EVERY player they do this with, and not just the Colts because of Andrew Luck.

 

:hat:

Saying the Colts lied and weren't forthcoming is the difference between telling your girlfriend she's fat or overweight. It's practically the same thing, just one sounds nicer. I do care more about Luck than Varga, but it doesn't change the fact that the FO is dishonest whether it's someone important like Luck or someone irrelevant like Tyler Varga. They are equal opportunity liars. I think any organization that can provide a winning product has more credibility when they lie about things than a losing organization. Winning cures all as they say. Also if Brissett won 12 games, the lies would not of been ok because there was no way the FO would of known Brissett would of won 12 games. The intention was to sign him as a stopgap, backup QB, and I go by their intentions in this case. That result would of been a lucky coincidence for them, and they wouldn't deserve the benefit of the doubt for it, knowing their intentions. 

 

I would throw every team under the bus for lying, but this is the team I'm a fan of, this is the team I love, and I expect it to treat the fans with a certain amount of respect and dignity like we are real people that want to enjoy the product. If the FO lies, they are going to get exposed for it later on social media. So they need to be honest and forthcoming to the fans that pay that billion dollar salary that Irsay has accumulated.

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2 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

It doesn't feel like a huge deal, it is a huge deal because it's Andrew Luck. No individual player is anywhere near as important as him. I didn't get as worked up about Varga because he was a FB, but that doesn't mean the Colts FO didn't lie about him too. In fact, you admitted they lied about that as well, which just proves my point. 

 

The Pats can do it and get away with it because they have credibility as a franchise. Half the time they go to the SB. So they lie about an injury or whatever, and the fans can go along with what happened and trust the process knowing things are likely to work out. It's not like that with the Colts. Anyone who has put their trust in Irsay since 2012 has been let down because Grigson and Pagano didn't know what they were doing, and now we are getting the runaround on Luck the last couple years. Irsay, Ballard, and Reich have 0 credibility when it comes to their word, and so far, there's 0 reason to believe things are going to work themselves out until Luck is officially back to full health. Add Leonard and Braden not signing and it just adds frustration for me. 

 

I'll stop holding a grudge once they stop wasting my time and actually keep their word about something. Like I told NCF, I've gone from being optimistic to being very frustrated again. 

 

If it bothers you so much why not follow a different team?  It seems silly to follow a team that frustrates you to the point of holding a grudge. 

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1 hour ago, indyagent17 said:

What really shocked me is a guy who didn't sign a contract is practicing at organized team activities. That's just plain stupid. He gets hurt he gets a settlement nothing near what his contract would be

 

No....   that's not how it works.    Your contract will still be there waiting for you INCLUDING all the GUARANTEED money that contract normally contains.

 

Its all part of the new CBA that went into effect around 2011.    That's why rookies go to camp and practice even without a signed deal.    This is one of the best parts of the new CBA.

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39 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Saying the Colts lied and weren't forthcoming is the difference between telling your girlfriend she's fat or overweight. It's practically the same thing, just one sounds nicer. I do care more about Luck than Varga, but it doesn't change the fact that the FO is dishonest whether it's someone important like Luck or someone irrelevant like Tyler Varga. They are equal opportunity liars. I think any organization that can provide a winning product has more credibility when they lie about things than a losing organization. Winning cures all as they say. Also if Brissett won 12 games, the lies would not of been ok because there was no way the FO would of known Brissett would of won 12 games. The intention was to sign him as a stopgap, backup QB, and I go by their intentions in this case. That result would of been a lucky coincidence for them, and they wouldn't deserve the benefit of the doubt for it, knowing their intentions. 

 

I would throw every team under the bus for lying, but this is the team I'm a fan of, this is the team I love, and I expect it to treat the fans with a certain amount of respect and dignity like we are real people that want to enjoy the product. If the FO lies, they are going to get exposed for it later on social media. So they need to be honest and forthcoming to the fans that pay that billion dollar salary that Irsay has accumulated.

 

I don't suppose you've noticed that you're the ONLY poster saying the Colts lie.   You're it.

 

Everyone else seems to get it.    ALL 32 teams do this.   You share as little as you can about injuries.    

 

There are several issues at play here.

 

One, there's no upside for the team to reveal too much.   You don't want to give your opponents too much info.

 

Two, the player himself has some say as to how much info the team can release.  Those are called HIPPA laws.   They are federal laws and they have real teeth.

 

The only people who get shorted are fans.   But it's not worse for Colts fans than the fans for the other 31 teams.   But most fans get it.   They may not like it,  but they get it.   Have you noticed things haven't changed despite the change from Grigson to Ballard?!?   That's because ALL teams are secretive with injury info.    That's what they do.

 

This isn't a Colts problem.    This is a Jared Cisneros problem.   You really should get over it.....

 

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3 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

It doesn't feel like a huge deal, it is a huge deal because it's Andrew Luck. No individual player is anywhere near as important as him. I didn't get as worked up about Varga because he was a FB, but that doesn't mean the Colts FO didn't lie about him too. In fact, you admitted they lied about that as well, which just proves my point. 

 

The Pats can do it and get away with it because they have credibility as a franchise. Half the time they go to the SB. So they lie about an injury or whatever, and the fans can go along with what happened and trust the process knowing things are likely to work out. It's not like that with the Colts. Anyone who has put their trust in Irsay since 2012 has been let down because Grigson and Pagano didn't know what they were doing, and now we are getting the runaround on Luck the last couple years. Irsay, Ballard, and Reich have 0 credibility when it comes to their word, and so far, there's 0 reason to believe things are going to work themselves out until Luck is officially back to full health. Add Leonard and Braden not signing and it just adds frustration for me. 

 

I'll stop holding a grudge once they stop wasting my time and actually keep their word about something. Like I told NCF, I've gone from being optimistic to being very frustrated again. 

Reich and Ballard have just started to work together.  It’s only been a few months.  I know Irsay owns the team, but he may have finally put the team back on the right path.  The holdouts could just be the players have personal business to attend to.  TC hasn’t even started yet.  I bet within the next week you’ll see them sign.

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15 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I'm sorry I haven't been more clear,  because this is really not that hard to understand.

 

Even if you think that Jim Irsay, Chris Ballard and Frank Reich have all taken a blood oath to not use the world "holdout" for Leonard and Smith,  that doesn't stop the Indy media from investigating on their own.     And they will.      Two high 2nd round picks holding out IS news.    It's big news.

 

And it's not that hard to get the phone numbers for the players themselves to ask them directly.    Or to call the agents of the players.     Or to call the families of the players.      Media does that stuff all the time.     And even if you think the Indy media SUCKS,  someone in the Indy media would've done this by now and reported it by now.

 

That's news.

 

Has anyone reported this?      No.      If they had,  someone would've posted it here for all of us to see and that hasn't happened.

 

Next week is the mandatory mini-camp and then the players get their vacation,  about 45 days.    I'm expecting Ballard/Reich to hold a press conference on the last day of camp.    And I'd expect someone in the media to ask them about the status of Leonard and Smith.     And until there's a credible story saying this is a holdout,  then I don't see one.      There are other reasons at play.

 

The players can still be practicing even without a signed contract.    Their guaranteed money is still guaranteed for injury even without a signed contract.      I have to believe there is something else going on besides a contract holdout that's keeping the players off the field.

 

You're free to believe otherwise.....

 

Agree, nothing to see here folks, move along. Until there is, then we'll yalk. These boys will still have to prove their worth.

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3 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

This isn't a Colts problem.    This is a Jared Cisneros problem.   

Well put. 

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5 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Saying the Colts lied and weren't forthcoming is the difference between telling your girlfriend she's fat or overweight. It's practically the same thing, just one sounds nicer. I do care more about Luck than Varga, but it doesn't change the fact that the FO is dishonest whether it's someone important like Luck or someone irrelevant like Tyler Varga. They are equal opportunity liars. I think any organization that can provide a winning product has more credibility when they lie about things than a losing organization. Winning cures all as they say. Also if Brissett won 12 games, the lies would not of been ok because there was no way the FO would of known Brissett would of won 12 games. The intention was to sign him as a stopgap, backup QB, and I go by their intentions in this case. That result would of been a lucky coincidence for them, and they wouldn't deserve the benefit of the doubt for it, knowing their intentions. 

 

I would throw every team under the bus for lying, but this is the team I'm a fan of, this is the team I love, and I expect it to treat the fans with a certain amount of respect and dignity like we are real people that want to enjoy the product. If the FO lies, they are going to get exposed for it later on social media. So they need to be honest and forthcoming to the fans that pay that billion dollar salary that Irsay has accumulated.

 

Not only do teams lie, but they should “lie.”

 

Talking about player injuries (e.g. medical records) is itself a sensitive matter, and they shouldn’t say whatever just to please the fans.

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10 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

 

I'll stop holding a grudge once they stop wasting my time and actually keep their word about something. Like I told NCF, I've gone from being optimistic to being very frustrated again. 

Not to be a downer but through my observations i don't think its the Colts wasting your time. You my brother have choices.  Can I recommend yoga or meditation because unnecessary  stress is very bad for you. I can explain more on that issue if you would like to PM me . 

We as humans wanna know all the details RIGHT NOW these days and if we don't get that info somebody is doing something wrong. Unfortunately that is the society we live in these days. 

 

I hope things calm down for you. I just think you are thinking into this too much. 

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7 minutes ago, strt182 said:

Not to be a downer but through my observations i don't think its the Colts wasting your time. You my brother have choices.  Can I recommend yoga or meditation because unnecessary  stress is very bad for you. I can explain more on that issue if you would like to PM me . 

We as humans wanna know all the details RIGHT NOW these days and if we don't get that info somebody is doing something wrong. Unfortunately that is the society we live in these days. 

 

I hope things calm down for you. I just think you are thinking into this too much. 

I appreciate the concern, but I think I just need a break from football until training camp possibly. Until then, not seeing any progress from Luck, seeing injured players, and worrying about Leonard and Braden signing is going to stress me out. Nothing is going to come of it right now, so I just need to worry about it when it would make a difference, and that's later on. Unfortunately, there's a large chunk of time between now and then and I'm impatient lol.

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6 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I appreciate the concern, but I think I just need a break from football until training camp possibly. Until then, not seeing any progress from Luck, seeing injured players, and worrying about Leonard and Braden signing is going to stress me out. Nothing is going to come of it right now, so I just need to worry about it when it would make a difference, and that's later on. Unfortunately, there's a large chunk of time between now and then and I'm impatient lol.

 

I feel your pain. I’m not stressed, just bored with the seasons.  I can’t make it through more than an inning of baseball on tv.  

 

I really hope one of those new football leagues makes it.   

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Once the mandatory Colts minicamp concludes, here are the rules dictated by the CBA-

 

Mid July -

 

"Clubs are permitted to open preseason training camp for rookies and first-year players beginning seven days prior to the club’s earliest permissible mandatory reporting date for Veteran players.


Veteran players (defined as a player with at least one pension-credited season) other than quarterbacks or “injured players” (as defined in CBA Article 21, Section 6) may report to a club’s preseason training camp no earlier than 15 days prior to the club’s first scheduled preseason game or July 15, whichever is later.


Veteran quarterbacks and injured players may be required to report to the club’s preseason training camp no earlier than five days immediately prior to the mandatory reporting date for all other veteran players, provided the club has already opened (or simultaneously opens) its official preseason training camp for all rookies and first-year players."

 

So folks need to be prepared for some 'real down time' soon.  It's summer!  Vacay time...

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