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Turftoe

Star article: "Chuck Pagano says Colts QB Andrew Luck got me more years than I probably deserved."

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This could be said by many Coaches that have coached in the NFL history. Would Tony Dungy have the coaching record he has and a SB win without Peyton Manning? Would Mike McCarthy still be the Coach in GB have a SB win without Aaron Rodgers? I think the answers to my questions are obvious. What Pagano said is true but it doesn't mean he was a Bad Coach. I think he was an Average Coach. Nowhere near Good or Great but he didn't suck like many in here pile on him. If Andrew comes back healthy and starts in Week 1, I cant wait to see what Reich does with our team. I like Reich.

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I read that quote and it made me kind of sad. It's true... but it still made me sad. Chuck is good people. 

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Yeah, he wasn't great, but I still *like* Chuck, I blame most of this on Grigson, still. That guy has a GM of the year award too. If Luck can't play again, I'll give him the GM award.

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I've said this a few times here but I do agree with the decision the Colts made to move on from Chuck but I have the utmost respect for him as a person. Chuck Pagano is a first rate human being and I wish him nothing but the best!

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Yea he is not saying anything we did not know already, great man though, i have all the respect in the world for Chuck. This is the case for many many teams in NFL history. Its my opinion that Chuck Knoll was not a great coach, but that Steelers team had soo much insane talent in the 70s, he now has 4 rings and is considered one of the best.

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It’s a shame about Chuck. I like him as a man and a person a lot. Tons of respect. Just wasn’t the caliber of coach we needed. 

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1 hour ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

Luck also got him lots and lots of $$$ that he didn't deserve. haha

 

I think we deserve more from you in this forum but negativity but I doubt we will.

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no hard feelings here, i dont think he was horrible

 

his schemes just called for a lot more talent than we had.  

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12 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I think we deserve more from you in this forum but negativity but I doubt we will.

 

When I saw the topic I confess I was a little worried about the reaction.

 

And I'm happy to see that most everyone has been very kind and classy about it.    Everybody except one.   And there's no surprise there.   Pretty much as expected.     All but one.    I'll take those numbers every time....

 

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Chuck Pagano is a warrior. Many of us couldn't have handled the things he endured while head coach of this ball club at all let alone with the class and "grit" he showed. I'm not sure why anyone would ever question his character, work ethic or his love of the game. He was paired with a new GM that had a heck of a start and little else, that didn't work well with Pagano. He wasn't what this team needed going forward, and there's plenty that we can dwell on in regards to his HC performance (and I'm as guilty as anyone on that) but there's never a question of his character and this proves that. He knows his career here was a wave that just didn't hit the heights it needed to hit. He also probably realizes he missed on some serious family time that is more important than this game will ever be, and I hope he is enjoying his time off. He has nothing to hang his head about. He won quite a few games, battled leukemia and the long lasting effects that enduring a battle like that will leave one with, and did it all with integrity and passion. 

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Chuck's a good guy and it's easy to see why the players loved playing for him. And they did play hard for him. He just wasn't the best x's and o's guy and eventually was his undoing with the team. Though a coach lasting 6 years with a team doesn't happen much anymore.

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Damn. Real quick to be that candid. Normally something you say post-retirement 

 

Sad but true.

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Works for me, very classy departure...…… and he held on long enough for Frank Reich to become available

 

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  I’m glad the Colts made the move (it was time) but I too have a lot of respect for him as a person.

   The thing that I dislike is people referring to him as an * or *. People discount that there were 18 players on IR.

    If you ask the players, I’d be willing to bet most would say they got some things from him they’re building on. 

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You don’t go from 2-14 to 11-5 three straight years without having something to offer as a coach.  It was Pagano’s blueprint and leadership that directed a very special and unexpected Colts resurgence.  Can’t forget or discount that.  Loved every minute of it.

Thank you coach Pagano!

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He fielded the players he could. Grigson screwed us over. I blame nothing on Chuck. Players from the past even had things to say about Grigson. 

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Damnit, Chuck was just good people. I hate that it didn’t work out. Nothing but class, that guy. 

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He isn't entirely wrong but he did a fairly good amount of work himself handicapped by a GM who couldn't hit the side of a talent barn right in front of him.  Plus he didn't even have Luck for 2 of those years so I'd like to think he's giving a Luck a tad too much credit.  

 

I agree with the moving on but I for sure love that he is a man of integrity.  Wish there were more like him instead of it being an oddity when we see one. 

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19 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

When I saw the topic I confess I was a little worried about the reaction.

 

And I'm happy to see that most everyone has been very kind and classy about it.    Everybody except one.   And there's no surprise there.   Pretty much as expected.     All but one.    I'll take those numbers every time....

 

Everyone has an opinion. No need to downgrade a person who has their own thoughts.

Let's don't be afraid to post because we fear the mob mentality that is out here. 

:bored:

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There seems to be a huge disconnect here. Chuck was garbage as a head coach, like really bad (my opinion). 

 

He also seems like a decent human being who happened to beat Cancer. People on this forum can’t seem to seperate the two. 

 

Chuck had cancer and he seems like a nice guy. You can still suck at your job and be called out on it. Being a nice guy and suffering from a horrible disease doesn’t give you a free pass in my book. I’m glad he beat cancer because F cancer. 

 

Just my opinion, really bothers me when I see the usual “classy” Colts fans shred someone else’s opinion because maybe some fans think Chuck was a trash head coach. 

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21 hours ago, Introspect said:

Everyone has an opinion. No need to downgrade a person who has their own thoughts.

Let's don't be afraid to post because we fear the mob mentality that is out here. 

*:bored:

 

Huh?

 

This is a peculiar post.

 

The overall thrust of my post is POSITIVE.     And you didn't even notice.     And my only negative mention was about one poster who I didn't even name.     And in my six years here,  it's rare for other posters to go back and read all the posts and try and figure out which poster is being talked about.    Typically,  most posters mention the offending person by name.     I didn't.    And the worst I said was that he went negative and it's not a surprise.   And that called for a response from you?     Seriously?  

 

And by the way,   you don't have to defend this poster.    And you don't have to worry he's going to feel bullied or picked on.     This poster went negative last year.    That's his right.    And he's continued to stay negative this year.   And that's his right too.     He was very negative about Ballard's approach both in Free Agency and the draft.   He was involved in countless threads being negative with other posters trying to calm him down.    I wasn't even in most of those threads and he stands up for himself just fine.     He's fine saying what he wants to say and he's not about to change his opinion for anyone.     So,  my modest tweek of this poster was nothing compared to the storm's he's withstood the past year and a half.     But he's practically all negative all the time and I'm hardly the only other poster to notice it.     You'd have to have been off the website for over a year not to notice it.

 

Not sure why you chose to make this a thing?    it was nothing....    your comment only elevated it.

 

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1 hour ago, Aluckiswolverine said:

There seems to be a huge disconnect here. Chuck was garbage as a head coach, like really bad (my opinion). 

 

He also seems like a decent human being who happened to beat Cancer. People on this forum can’t seem to seperate the two. 

 

Chuck had cancer and he seems like a nice guy. You can still suck at your job and be called out on it. Being a nice guy and suffering from a horrible disease doesn’t give you a free pass in my book. I’m glad he beat cancer because F cancer. 

 

Just my opinion, really bothers me when I see the usual “classy” Colts fans shred someone else’s opinion because maybe some fans think Chuck was a trash head coach. 

I'd challenge the logic in your assessment of his coaching, not your ability to separate his coaching from his person, which you have done a reasonable job of.

 

I called, politely, for a coaching change as early as late 2015 - so yes, I believe he took us as far as he could in 4 years and shouldn't have gotten 6....however, you are completely ignoring how hard it is to win a game in the NFL, let alone engineer one of the greatest turnarounds in NFL history leading to 3 consecutive playoff appearances and 3 playoff wins.  Its hard to do and it takes very good coaching.

 

Its OK with me if you don't think Chuck achieved anything in his tenure here - everybody gets to set the bar as they wish for themselves - but the numbers don't support that Pagano was a failure, nor did the eye test.  2012-2014 was a big success and a special time where it seemed like anything was possible and we came to expect the improbable again.  Maybe the standard is no longer winning, but if it is then Pagano had a lot to do with it by definition....and anybody that says Andrew Luck did that by himself is revising history.

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2 hours ago, Aluckiswolverine said:

There seems to be a huge disconnect here. Chuck was garbage as a head coach, like really bad (my opinion). 

 

He also seems like a decent human being who happened to beat Cancer. People on this forum can’t seem to seperate the two. 

 

Chuck had cancer and he seems like a nice guy. You can still suck at your job and be called out on it. Being a nice guy and suffering from a horrible disease doesn’t give you a free pass in my book. I’m glad he beat cancer because F cancer. 

 

Just my opinion, really bothers me when I see the usual “classy” Colts fans shred someone else’s opinion because maybe some fans think Chuck was a trash head coach. 

 

Huge disconnect?     How about madness?!?

 

There is a segment of the community here (not saying you're one of them,  you be the judge)  that thinks there just can NOT be a thread about Pagano without someone, ANYONE,  inserting that he sucked as a head coach.    If people are saying nice things about him,  even if none of them have anything to do with Pagano professionally,  just that he was a good guy,  inevitably someone comes along to say.....    "nice guy,  but he sucked as a head coach."      It's as if they have some sort of Pagano Tourette's....   they have to blurt it out no matter what.   They can't help themselves.     

 

How far do we carry ths on?     Seriously,  how far?    It's not hard to see the following happening...

 

--- Pagano announces he has cancer again.  

--- Anti Pagano fan says....   "Oh,  this is terrible.    Nice guy,  but he sucked as a coach."

 

--- Pagano family announces Chuck has passed.

--- Anti Pagano fan says....    "Oh, this is too bad.    Nice guy.    But he was terrible as a coach."

 

--- Pagano family announces fund raiser to beat cancer.

--- Anti Pagano fan says....  "This is a great idea.    I might even send them a few bucks to help.    I'd send more,   but he sucked as a head coach."

 

--- Indianapolis honors Pagano's memory with a park named after him.

--- Anti Pagano fan says....    "I love this idea...   my wife and kids will love playing in this park.   Too bad Pagano was such a bad coach,  they might've named something better after him,"

 

For some reason,  it's never enough for some posters to pass on a Pagano thread.    They feel the need to throw in their two cents that Pagano,  even if they agree was a good guy,  sucked as a coach.    They can't let the opportunity pass.

 

Geez....   it's exhausting.

 

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2 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Huge disconnect?     How about madness?!?

 

There is a segment of the community here (not saying you're one of them,  you be the judge)  that thinks there just can NOT be a thread about Pagano without someone, ANYONE,  inserting that he sucked as a head coach.    If people are saying nice things about him,  even if none of them have anything to do with Pagano professionally,  just that he was a good guy,  inevitably someone comes along to say.....    "nice guy,  but he sucked as a head coach."      It's as if they have some sort of Pagano Tourette's....   they have to blurt it out no matter what.   They can't help themselves.     

 

How far do we carry ths on?     Seriously,  how far?    It's not hard to see the following happening...

 

--- Pagano announces he has cancer again.  

--- Anti Pagano fan says....   "Oh,  this is terrible.    Nice guy,  but he sucked as a coach."

 

--- Pagano family announces Chuck has passed.

--- Anti Pagano fan says....    "Oh, this is too bad.    Nice guy.    But he was terrible as a coach."

 

--- Pagano family announces fund raiser to beat cancer.

--- Anti Pagano fan says....  "This is a great idea.    I might even send them a few bucks to help.    I'd send more,   but he sucked as a head coach."

 

--- Indianapolis honors Pagano's memory with a park named after him.

--- Anti Pagano fan says....    "I love this idea...   my wife and kids will love playing in this park.   Too bad Pagano was such a bad coach,  they might've named something better after him,"

 

For some reason,  it's never enough for some posters to pass on a Pagano thread.    They feel the need to throw in their two cents that Pagano,  even if they agree was a good guy,  sucked as a coach.    They can't let the opportunity pass.

 

Geez....   it's exhausting.

 

What's funny is he didn't suck nor was he really Bad. He wasn't a Great or Good Coach like I Posted above but he was Average at worse and it was time for a change. He wasn't going to take us to the SB but that doesn't mean he sucked. For people to say he was a Bad, I don't think their ability to evaluate things is good and that is my opinion. If he was Bad in some people's minds than so are 15 other Coaches. Pagano's record proves otherwise. Most of the same people that say he was Bad think Bruce Arians is Good - Great LOL, now that is funny. Him being a great person has nothing to do my evaluation on his Coaching Ranking. I see him as Average, better than some, worse than some.

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11 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

What's funny is he didn't suck nor was he really Bad. He wasn't a Great or Good Coach like I Posted above but he was Average at worse and it was time for a change. He wasn't going to take us to the SB but that doesn't mean he sucked. For people to say he was a Bad, I don't think their ability to evaluate things is good and that is my opinion. If he was Bad in some people's minds than so are 15 other Coaches. Pagano's record proves otherwise. Most of the same people that say he was Bad think Bruce Arians is Good - Great LOL, now that is funny. Him being a great person has nothing to do my evaluation on his Coaching Ranking. I see him as Average, better than some, worse than some.

 I know, and agree CBE....     I'm sorry I can't give your post more than one like.    I would if I could.

 

I've written what you wrote way, WAY too many times to even count.     But I didn't even want to go there in this thread.     I didn't want to defend Pagano again as an average coach and we needed and Luck deserved better than average.      We both know there is no argument --- none --- that Pagano sucked as a HC.     But the Haters gonna Hate,  because that's what they do.

 

I just wanted to focus on the idea that's it's really OK to let a Pagao thread pass without trashing the guy as a coach.     Just let it go and look forward....    

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I appreciate his honesty and humility. This statement is better than the one Grigson did a few months ago, where he seemed reluctant to take blame for his shortcomings. I’m hindsight, I’m glad that Irsay let Grigson go before Chuck. If nothing else, Chuck was at least a respectable and humble man. Way more than Grigson was.

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24 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 I know, and agree CBE....     I'm sorry I can't give your post more than one like.    I would if I could.

 

I've written what you wrote way, WAY too many times to even count.     But I didn't even want to go there in this thread.     I didn't want to defend Pagano again as an average coach and we needed and Luck deserved better than average.      We both know there is no argument --- none --- that Pagano sucked as a HC.     But the Haters gonna Hate,  because that's what they do.

 

I just wanted to focus on the idea that's it's really OK to let a Pagao thread pass without trashing the guy as a coach.     Just let it go and look forward....    

Yeah I hear ya. I agree with you 100%. What is funny is, sometimes an Average Coach can get it done in the NFL with the right team. Gary Kubiak won a SB, he is Average. Jim Caldwell took over for Dungy and took us to 14-0 in 2009 before losing and the SB, he is Average. To me those 2 Coaches aren't really any better than Chuck.

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10 minutes ago, stitches said:

 

 

Oh, for crying out loud!

 

Goodness gracious!     

 

Damn!    One classy guy!!   Dilly!   Dilly!!!

 

:colts:

 

 

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As a head coach, you are either responsible for the play calling....or the coordinator hire. Correct?

As a head coach, you are responsible for the players chosen to start. Right?

 

So if the credit goes to Luck for our wins, then the wins when he was out was because of....?

Overcoming nearly historic game time starter absences credit goes to?

Creating a locker room where the team never quit was?

 

I have no problem seeing Coach Pagano referred to as not adequate, or not the right coach, or a less than desirable coach when it comes to choosing a staff...

 

But referring to him as a horrible or garbage coach is flat out incorrect, disrespectful, and just plain lacking in understanding of the game in a holistic manner. It is absolutely false in terms of a reasonable description. 

 

And for goodness sake's, why do people say he wasn't a good X's and O's coach. He didn't call the plays! Blame the coordinator...or blame the hire. Choose...

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I wouldn't even say Chuck is a bad coach, just way better as a coordinator or position coach, and not so much as a head coach. There have been a ton of guys who fell into that category. Great respect for the man.

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15 hours ago, Turftoe said:

Gotta give Chuck some credit for being honest and realistic:

 

Chuck Pagano says Colts QB Andrew Luck 'got me more years than I probably deserved.'

Although we didn’t get the wins chuck nobody can argue that you don’t have integrity. Honest and a great man! Kick back and relax you deserve it ..... kinda got screwed by a horrible GM. What could have been if CB was here earlier. 

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Serious questions:

 

Was Chuck against a 4-3 for some reason? 

 

Or was the "3-4 Monster" something Jim Irsay just expected from Pagano from day 1 since he came from Baltimore?

 

I mean, it took like 5 minutes of one press conference for me to understand Ballards' vision of a fast 4-3 on indoor turf.  It makes sense.  it has worked for us here before in Indy.

 

So... If that was Ballards' vision from the beginning, why didn't we just switch to 4-3 last year?  Wouldn't it have been beneficial to already have the players drafted last year (Basham, Walker, Stewart, etc.) with a year of 4-3 experience under their belt (and maybe those 10-15 lbs already OFF their belt since we want speed on the field)?

 

I have to think last year was a case of Irsay telling Ballard to give Chuck one more year with his "3-4 Monster" when Irsay/Ballard probably could have tried to keep Pagano in the fold for the switch to a 4-3.  At least as a secondary coach going forward or something.

 

I know Paganos' history of in-game adjustments (much less successful in-game adjustments) is virtually non-existent... but I wonder how much more successful a healthy Luck AND a fast 4-3 defense in LOS would have made Pagano last year... well, according to Pagano himself, probably more successful than he deserves.  haha

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Absolutely hated! Chuck Paganos style of coaching. However a class act in the real world which is what is most important. So kudos to him. I hope he can learn from this and become a great HC one day. 

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