NFL adopts new Anthem policy

[stitches]

3 minutes ago, pgt_rob said:

 

We've been "doing something about it" for years. Outcome = TBD.

The fact that things are not perfect is not an argument for not trying to make things better. There will never be perfect society, perfect policing, perfect anything that involves human interactions. It doesn't mean you just throw your hands up and give up and be content with how things are, because an issue will never be 'totally erased'. Things have gotten better and have been getting better for decades precisely because of people protesting and raising awareness about injustice happening around the world. 

[throwing BBZ]

Just now, Buck Showalter said:

Good point. If football players shouldn't be held as authorities on topical/political/racial issues then why should anyone care what they do during a song.

 

 Thanks. It just hit me as i was doing some stretching and typed Cornell Wild. Many willknow i meant West.
There are so many bright minds on the subject of race worth listening to.
 And i did care about the kneeling. It was totally against everything i believe in regarding patriotism, respect for those that served, and the freedom we have like few others on earth. Those are my beliefs. And i get as much as i can, that others, definitely in our own country, don't have, see, feel, those same freedoms. So the fight goes on for those freedoms and equal justice. And we will disagree on what measures to take.
 God Bless America and let Freedom ring.

[Cynjin]

52 minutes ago, stitches said:

Would we forgive Luck if he throws the Duke during the anthem? 

 

I doubt he would be that stupid.

[Buck Showalter]

1 minute ago, Cynjin said:

 

And I said there are other ways that are visible they could utilize in order to get their point across.

Sure absolutely. But they got attention, which is sort of the point no?

[pgt_rob]

1 minute ago, stitches said:

There will never be perfect society, perfect policing, perfect anything that involves human interactions. It doesn't mean you just throw your hands up and give up and be content with how things are, because an issue will never be 'totally erased'. Things have gotten better and have been getting better for decades precisely because of people protesting and raising awareness about injustice happening around the world. 

 

You can totally say that to the protesters as well. There will never be a perfect society, perfect policing, perfect anything that involves human interactions. Which I 100% agree. However, people protesting this will say otherwise apparently.

[oldunclemark]

What the NFL did here was compromise....

 

. the viewers wont see NFL players taking a knee...something viewers did not like.. ……...but staying in the locker room or the runway will replace taking a knee as the protest...….nobody loves compromise but this was a good one

[Cynjin]

Just now, Buck Showalter said:

Sure absolutely. But they got attention, which is sort of the point no?

 

Yes, they did, but it was a lot of negative attention.  I don't know about others but when someone does something I consider offensive I tend not to listen to any of the points they are trying to make.

[stitches]

1 minute ago, Buck Showalter said:

Sure absolutely. But they got attention, which is sort of the point no?

I can already see the protesting players doing live streams on their social media from the locker room during the anthem performance. 

[NFLfan]

42 minutes ago, stitches said:

You are already embroiled with a political topic when you go and watch dramatic anthem performances and elaborate staged military displays. So it's not really about being embroiled with politics at the game. It's about being embroiled with the 'wrong' type of politics. 

 

Good point. Someone somewhere wrote that if kneeling is a political statement, then standing is too. 

[oldunclemark]

4 minutes ago, stitches said:

The fact that things are not perfect is not an argument for not trying to make things better. There will never be perfect society, perfect policing, perfect anything that involves human interactions. It doesn't mean you just throw your hands up and give up and be content with how things are, because an issue will never be 'totally erased'. Things have gotten better and have been getting better for decades precisely because of people protesting and raising awareness about injustice happening around the world. 

I wish the players would protest the issue....

instead of protesting the NFL...which has nothing to do with community policing and wrong shootings...

 

This issue had to be compromised..and brought to an end...

..because the NFL cant solve the issue that is the heart of the protest

[stitches]

2 minutes ago, pgt_rob said:

 

You can totally say that to the protesters as well. There will never be a perfect society, perfect policing, perfect anything that involves human interactions. Which I 100% agree. However, people protesting this will say otherwise apparently.

If their position is that things now are worse than ever, I obviously won't agree with that and I think this is asinine. I'm not sure this is their stance though. If I had to guess things nowadays are much better than they were in the 1920s or 1970s or hell even 2000s... this doesn't mean that there aren't things that still need addressing and improving. 

[pgt_rob]

12 minutes ago, Nadine said:

ahh, well I'm more in the glass half full camp

 

Sweet, if you're thinking things have improved in some way, then maybe we can get back to enjoying the football game in peace again. lol

[oldunclemark]

3 minutes ago, stitches said:

I can already see the protesting players doing live streams on their social media from the locker room during the anthem performance. 

There should be no problem with that......

[PrincetonTiger]

JMO

  those that say there is no problem is part of the problem and before anyone speaks out on the issue they need to understand the issue

[Cynjin]

19 minutes ago, Buck Showalter said:

 If football players shouldn't be held as authorities on topical/political/racial issues then why should anyone care what they do during the anthem.

1

 

I don't believe that is what BBZ wrote at all.  There are some very thoughtful football players, Benjamin Watson comes to mind.  To answer your question, because it is disrespectful, that's why some people care.

[oldunclemark]

  The players have to accept that this is the NFL's 'TV show' 

..and they have an absolute right to say what's on their show...

 

..any protest...anywhere ese...is fine.

Its not like the NFL is in favor of police shootings of innocent boys

[pgt_rob]

Just now, oldunclemark said:

There should be no problem with that......

 

Haha, hopefully sarcasm there.

 

People tend to forget that the NFL is a business. They are employed. The employer sets the rules in the rule book and you must follow them. Sound familiar? For instance, at YOUR JOB ALSO!? lol. The NFL has a rule that you can't be on social media within the locker room. That would already be a violation for the player to live stream on their phone inside the locker room.

[PrincetonTiger]

For the people that find issue with the protests there are three options

  Don’t watch

 

  Use the money you would spend at the game on something productive

 

   

[Cynjin]

16 minutes ago, Buck Showalter said:

No I said political statements no one sees are most effective.

Just playing devils advocate. Its all pretty silly to me. People are up in arms because of what some other people are doing during a song.

 

It's not just a "song", it's the National Anthem.

[Narcosys]

 

1 hour ago, Nadine said:

I know.

 

What I've never understood is how someone kneeling before the game interferes with enjoyment of the game.  I was at the game when Pence walked out because of kneeling.  I have no idea how he saw it.  So many people on the field with a giant American flag, opposing bench was not visible at all. I think that was a staged protest.

 

I understand why the NFL wants to extract itself from the issue.

 

Big screens, pointed at them. But as @csmopar, it sets the mood for the game for some people who are looking to just take a few hours of their lives away from the bombardment of negativity and enjoy something.

[oldunclemark]

1 minute ago, pgt_rob said:

 

Haha, hopefully sarcasm there.

 

People tend to forget that the NFL is a business. They are employed. The employer sets the rules in the rule book and you must follow them. Sound familiar? For instance, at YOUR JOB ALSO!? lol. The NFL has a rule that you can't be on social media within the locker room. That would already be a violation for the player to live stream on their phone inside the locker room.

True...but the thought is..that players can protest on their own time..and the NFL wont have an issue with that.

 

[Nadine]

2 minutes ago, pgt_rob said:

 

Sweet, if you're thinking things have improved in some way, then maybe we can get back to enjoying the football game in peace again. lol

But half isn't enough.

 

I'm optimistic and persistent.

 

For example, I'm horrified by the massive islands of plastic floating in the ocean so, I recycle everything I can and avoid contributing to the problem as best I can.

 

For me, this involves counter acting my husbands disregard for the ease of recycling.  Every day I retrieve the recyclables he pitches in the regular trash and put them in the recycle bin.

 

Will it eliminate those massive piles of trash floating in our oceans? No, but it doesn't make them worse.

 

I don't give up on people either

[oldunclemark]

3 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

For the people that find issue with the protests there are three options

  Don’t watch

 

  Use the money you would spend at the game on something productive

 

   

That's why the NFL has to stop the protests...

..its a TV show and the NFL wants everybody to watch.

 

So the 'actors' have to abide by certain rules during the show.

It helps to look at an NFL game as the owners; TV show.

 

Protest is fine..and..again...the owners probably agree with the players on police shootings.

Just don't protest on our 'TV show; and make some people turn the shot off...hurting both owners and players

 

Its that simple.

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, Narcosys said:

 

 

Big screens, pointed at them. But as @csmopar, it sets the mood for the game for some people who are looking to just take a few hours of their lives away from the bombardment of negativity and enjoy something.

Don’t watch or go

[Narcosys]

1 hour ago, Buck Showalter said:

Yes because political statements that no one sees are most effective. 

 

Pretty sure I already addressed this same parroted statement a few pages ago. But the fact that people are not seen, means that people are aware of them and the reason they are not present...Therefore they are still sending a message. Like I explained to stitches, you don't actually have to be someplace to express yourself and make your statement known.

[csmopar]

22 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

Okay, my response was to your asking why would you spend hundreds to go to a game and have to see a form of protest. 

 

If it is the television stations that are putting this out there for millions to see, why isn't your anger directed at the stations? There is a lot more that the stations could cover.  It is because they know that showing it will evoke feelings of anger and contempt from folks. In the beginning, no one knew Kaepernick and others were protesting because the stations had not yet picked up on it and therefore no one had a problem with it.

 

I am not saying that this is the right way to address these problems. I actually don't think so. I prefer what Doug Baldwin and some others are doing. 

Because I've also gone to the games. And it is noticeable. But I think that's part of the unconscious notion to be looking for something even if you don't mean to because you know it is there.  I forget what the medical term for it is though.

 

But I do 100 percent agree with your comments about the tv stations and their coverage focus. 

[Nadine]

1 minute ago, Narcosys said:

 

 

Big screens, pointed at them. But as @csmopar, it sets the mood for the game for some people who are looking to just take a few hours of their lives away from the bombardment of negativity and enjoy something.

I'm not sure it was immediately on the news. It wasn't on the stadium screens.  But at the game, I got a twitter notification.  That's how I knew.  Depends on how plugged in your are I think

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, oldunclemark said:

That's why the NFL has to stop the protests...

..its a TV show and the NFL wants everybody to watch.

 

So the 'actors' have to abide by certain rules during the show

This attitude is why there is a problem

 

  they are not actors

[Cynjin]

57 minutes ago, stitches said:

You are already embroiled with a political topic when you go and watch dramatic anthem performances and elaborate staged military displays. So it's not really about being embroiled with politics at the game. It's about being embroiled with the 'wrong' type of politics. 

 

Neither the military nor the anthem is political.

[oldunclemark]

This compromise is a fair one...…….protests is allowed....just not on Sunday at 1 p.m.

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, Cynjin said:

 

Neither the military nor the anthem is political.

They can be

 

  when certain segments make those not as patriotic inhuman 

[oldunclemark]

1 minute ago, PrincetonTiger said:

This attitude is why there is a problem

 

  they are not actors

PT..

They are actors.....actors in football play......…and actors get involved in social issues all the time.

Just not on somebody else's shows

 

.look at it as the owner's TV show

[Buck Showalter]

3 minutes ago, Cynjin said:

 

It's not just a "song", it's the National Anthem.

A song that's original lyrical content contained significant racist undertones. And, it is still just a song, if the anthem is important to you great. However in a free country expecting someone else to  behave a certain way during a song seems like insanity to me.

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, oldunclemark said:

PT..

They are actors.....actors in football play......…and actors get involved in social issues all the time.

Just not on somebody else's shows

 

.look at it as the owner's TV show

Not at all

  actors don’t put there life at risk 

[csmopar]

2 minutes ago, Nadine said:

But half isn't enough.

 

I'm optimistic and persistent.

 

For example, I'm horrified by the massive islands of plastic floating in the ocean so, I recycle everything I can and avoid contributing to the problem as best I can.

 

For me, this involves counter acting my husbands disregard for the ease of recycling.  Every day I retrieve the recyclables he pitches in the regular trash and put them in the recycle bin.

 

Will it eliminate those massive piles of trash floating in our oceans? No, but it doesn't make them worse.

 

I don't give up on people either

No, it isn't. But here's the thing.  And this is going to make a lot of people mad but it is a fact. It is not going to instantly change. Racism and the like are not going to end just because someone kneels. It is the unfortunate truth. Has it gotten better, yes. Is there lots of work to be done yet, absolutely. We, as a country, have come a long way since the Civil War but we have work to do. However, it takes ALL sides to end this issue. Right now, there's too much divisiveness to accomplish anything. And adding further divisiveness on an international stage is only going to slow that progress as people will tune it out.  The point I'm getting at is the circus it has created. Had Kapernick and others just done it one single time, I think it would have had a much better reception as the message wouldn't have gotten murky but would have still gotten the message.

[Cynjin]

11 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

For the people that find issue with the protests there are three options

  Don’t watch

 

  Use the money you would spend at the game on something productive

 

   

 

One could say the same thing to those that don't like what the NFL is doing.

[csmopar]

7 minutes ago, Nadine said:

I'm not sure it was immediately on the news. It wasn't on the stadium screens.  But at the game, I got a twitter notification.  That's how I knew.  Depends on how plugged in your are I think

It was immediately on the news

[stitches]

5 minutes ago, Cynjin said:

 

Neither the military nor the anthem is political.

Actually they both can be and especially when they are paid for by the DoD they definitely are. 

[Cynjin]

7 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

They can be

 

  when certain segments make those not as patriotic inhuman 

 

But that's not the military or the anthem, that's the people trying to use a wedge.

[Buck Showalter]

10 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

Pretty sure I already addressed this same parroted statement a few pages ago. But the fact that people are not seen, means that people are aware of them and the reason they are not present...Therefore they are still sending a message. Like I explained to stitches, you don't actually have to be someplace to express yourself and make your statement known.

Lol... "Parroted" hillarious, in a fairly heated/devisive discussion of how people should respond when they hear a combination of musical notes & phonetic signifiers...