NFL adopts new Anthem policy

[Nadine]

2 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Did we insult your country? No, so take that crap elsewhere before it creates a giant argument and thus a forum lock down.

NO

[Nadine]

I'm sorry that some feel that people blame the whole country for the actions of a few. I don't think that's the case at all. I'm sorry that some feel that the perspective of people from other countries should be silenced. I don't.

 

I do think that we have a problem with racial profiling and targeting.

 

Calling attention to it is the best way to stop it.

[Buck Showalter]

31 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Never got the connection between kneeling for the anthem and the problem they were protesting.  Seems ignorant.

 

I think I'll follow their lead.  My employer has a policy of no soft drinks at the work station.  Because this country has had a history of inequality, slave ownership, and now police brutality, I think I'll protest buy drinking a coke while I work today. 

Beautiful analogy.

[csmopar]

5 minutes ago, Nadine said:

I'm sorry that some feel that people blame the whole country for the actions of a few. I don't think that's the case at all. I'm sorry that some feel that the perspective of people from other countries should be silenced. I don't.

 

I do think that we have a problem with racial profiling and targeting.

 

Calling attention to it is the best way to stop it.

Here's the thing.

 

Everyone is looking at this move by the owners as a way to stop the negative publicity and such. Which it is.  But I think there's more to it. I think this was a move to appease both sides as an attempt to get the NFL out of the political crosshairs and back to being an American Passtime. This was a move designed to unite the teams and players as they didn't ban kneeling, they simply said you have to it off camera, off field.  Which is where ALL political statements should stay. I don't know about anyone else, but I watch the games to get my mind off all the stress and drama and other nonsense in the 24/7 news cycle that is just bombarding everyone. I don't tune in to see political statements or social issues during the game. That doesn't mean the issue doesn't exist but there's better places to do it.

[Buck Showalter]

3 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Here's the thing.

 

Everyone is looking at this move by the owners as a way to stop the negative publicity and such. Which it is.  But I think there's more to it. I think this was a move to appease both sides as an attempt to get the NFL out of the political crosshairs and back to being an American Passtime. This was a move designed to unite the teams and players as they didn't ban kneeling, they simply said you have to it off camera, off field.  Which is where ALL political statements should stay. I don't know about anyone else, but I watch the games to get my mind off all the stress and drama and other nonsense in the 24/7 news cycle that is just bombarding everyone. I don't tune in to see political statements or social issues during the game. That doesn't mean the issue doesn't exist but there's better places to do it.

Yes because political statements that no one sees are most effective. 

 

[Dingus McGirt]

This is hilarious.  Now, instead of network executives making sure the cameras focus on kneeling "protesters" - they'll simply ensure they focus (after the National Anthem) on the same people as they leave the tunnel from the locker room...all walking in supposed solidarity against the oppressor.  Give me a small break.

[csmopar]

Just now, Buck Showalter said:

Yes because political statements that no one sees are most effective. 

 

There's plenty of platforms to be visible. There's a time and a place for it is all im saying.

[Nadine]

9 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Here's the thing.

 

Everyone is looking at this move by the owners as a way to stop the negative publicity and such. Which it is.  But I think there's more to it. I think this was a move to appease both sides as an attempt to get the NFL out of the political crosshairs and back to being an American Passtime. This was a move designed to unite the teams and players as they didn't ban kneeling, they simply said you have to it off camera, off field.  Which is where ALL political statements should stay. I don't know about anyone else, but I watch the games to get my mind off all the stress and drama and other nonsense in the 24/7 news cycle that is just bombarding everyone. I don't tune in to see political statements or social issues during the game. That doesn't mean the issue doesn't exist but there's better places to do it.

I know.

 

What I've never understood is how someone kneeling before the game interferes with enjoyment of the game.  I was at the game when Pence walked out because of kneeling.  I have no idea how he saw it.  So many people on the field with a giant American flag, opposing bench was not visible at all. I think that was a staged protest.

 

I understand why the NFL wants to extract itself from the issue.

[csmopar]

11 minutes ago, Nadine said:

I know.

 

What I've never understood is how someone kneeling before the game interferes with enjoyment of the game.  I was at the game when Pence walked out because of kneeling.  I have no idea how he saw it.  So many people on the field with a giant American flag, opposing bench was not visible at all. I think that was a staged protest.

 

I understand why the NFL wants to extract itself from the issue.

I think its because of what I said above.  Most Americans are sick of protests, political drama and debates etc. They tune in for enjoyment and when the players/media focus so much on political statements, it angers people, people who spend hard earned money to view these games. I think this issue matters because if you look at the ratings and compare them to pre-mass kneeling, the drop off is substantial. I don't think its truly just about the anthem and the kneeling though, its about being burnt out on the divisiveness being pounded into our faces 24/7 over the last decade.  Without going too deep in to, every day, someone is protesting over something, someone is making dumb comments on twitter(or other social media), someone is accusing someone of racism, sexism etc etc.  I think people are just generally burnout on such stuff and bringing it into a game such as football is just too much for some people. 

[Franklin County]

But,  is Andrew Luck throwing a Duke yet??? 

[Nadine]

6 minutes ago, csmopar said:

I think its because of what I said above.  Most Americans are sick of protests, political drama and debates etc. They tune in for enjoyment and when the players/media focus so much on political statements, it angers people, people who spend hard earned money to view these games. I think this issue matters because if you look at the ratings and compare them to pre-mass kneeling, the drop off is substantial. I don't think its truly just about the anthem and the kneeling though, its about being burnt out on the divisiveness being pounded into our faces 24/7 over the last decade.  Without going too deep in to, every day, someone is protesting over something, someone is making dumb comments on twitter(or other social media), someone is accusing someone of racism, sexism etc etc.  I think people are just generally burnout on such stuff and bringing it into a game such as football is just too much for some people. 

Agree

 

It has everything to do with not believing it's a problem and not wanting to hear about it

[stitches]

3 minutes ago, Franklin County said:

But,  is Andrew Luck throwing a Duke yet??? 

Would we forgive Luck if he throws the Duke during the anthem? 

[Franklin County]

1 minute ago, stitches said:

Would we forgive Luck if he throws the Duke during the anthem? 

Of course!!! It's Andrew Luck!!!

[csmopar]

1 minute ago, Nadine said:

Agree

 

It has everything to do with not believing it's a problem and not wanting to hear about it

I dont think that's accurate at all.  People know there's a problem, people know it needs fixed. But its like scolding your kid over and over and over again, throwing it in their face every time you see them about them making a mistake. People just get sick of that stuff.  If you truly want to fix a problem, you state the problem and move forward to fixing it, not constantly smacking people with it and not offering solutions. 

[pgt_rob]

Honestly, this is probably for the best. Stay in the locker room unless you want to stand for the national anthem. That's the rule. I find it childish that some players or staff are going to look for ways to get around it and do what they want anyway. It's like dad told you no but you run to mommy and she lets you do it. Bleh...

 

About the concessions thing. NFL stadiums are so large so I don't know 100% that they stop for the anthem. But I go to many baseball games and literally everyone stops for it. You may have the occasional person who doesn't give a crap or isn't paying attention or something. But for the most part, everyone is polite and respectful.

 

Does anyone really think that the protests actually work? It's successful in creating awareness but does it statically create anything? Fast forward 100 years and I think we still have the same issue. For the most part, it's victim mentality. For the most part...

[csmopar]

4 minutes ago, stitches said:

Would we forgive Luck if he throws the Duke during the anthem? 

Honestly, I'd want to smack him upside the back of his head just like I wanted to with Kapernick. 

[NFLfan]

24 minutes ago, Nadine said:

Agree

 

It has everything to do with not believing it's a problem and not wanting to hear about it

 

Exactly. That is a succinct way of putting what I wanted to say.

 

I don't believe the anger has anything to do with players kneeling or with the perceived disrespecting of the flag/ the anthem/ or the military. It has more to do with fans not wanting to told or reminded that there are problems in the world. "It is your problem, not mine."

[csmopar]

Just now, pgt_rob said:

Honestly, this is probably for the best. Stay in the locker room unless you want to stand for the national anthem. That's the rule. I find it childish that some players or staff are going to look for ways to get around it and do what they want anyway. It's like dad told you no but you run to mommy and she lets you do it. Bleh...

 

About the concessions thing. NFL stadiums are so large so I don't know 100% that they stop for the anthem. But I go to many baseball games and literally everyone stops for it. You may have the occasional person who doesn't give a crap or isn't paying attention or something. But for the most part, everyone is polite and respectful.

 

Does anyone really think that the protests actually work? It's successful in creating awareness but does it statically create anything? Fast forward 100 years and I think we still have the same issue. For the most part, it's victim mentality. For the most part...

I know the Indianapolis Motor Speedway does, I caught by it a couple times.  They announce it, every concession worker freezes until its over.

 

and I completely agree with the bolded! 

[csmopar]

1 minute ago, NFLfan said:

 

Exactly. That is a succinct way of putting what I wanted to say. It really has nothing to do with kneeling or disrespecting the flag/ the anthem/ or the military. It has more to do with not being informed or reminded that there are problems in the world. "It is your problem, not mine."

A game is a form of entertainment. Why would I spend hundreds to go to a game to have to get embroiled with a political topic?

[stitches]

9 minutes ago, csmopar said:

A game is a form of entertainment. Why would I spend hundreds to go to a game to have to get embroiled with a political topic?

You are already embroiled with a political topic when you go and watch dramatic anthem performances and elaborate staged military displays. So it's not really about being embroiled with politics at the game. It's about being embroiled with the 'wrong' type of politics. 

[DougDew]

13 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

 

With regards to the policy, the NFL is in a no-win situation.  If they don't say anything, one group of fans will be upset that they're letting this continue.  If they take a side, fans of the opposing side will complain.  Then you have the NFLPA that is adamantly determined to simply disagree with anything and everything the NFL does.  I feel like this is far from over...

 

Yes.  It was longwinded and confusing. 

 

The point:  People have tried to put some righteous meaning behind the Kaepernick kneeling, taking him at his word that he was kneeling to protest "inequality".  No.  He was kneeling because it was the only visible way of giving his team a big chuck you farley for being benched in favor of Blaine Gabbert, which signaled his future release.  The "perpetual defenders of equality" crowd joined in on cue, triggered by the word "inequality", then came up with other lame excuses for what kneeling for the anthem is supposed to mean, going  down rabbit hole after rabbit hole since none of the reasons made any sense at all.

 

Its my understanding that the current reason, or at least one reason in he recent past, is police brutality.  Ferguson, Baltimore, other cities have had their problems, but all police forces are administered by local municipalities.  Seems stupid to protest a NATIONAL anthem over police brutality when the nation doesn't even have a police force.  If a Raven wants to protest police brutality, maybe he should stop representing the city of Baltimore and quit being a Raven.  Instead, they protest the flag, which effectively is nothing more than giving their paying fans the finger, since the paying fans remove their hats and want to participate in the ceremony of standing.

 

The entire issue is dumb.  Driven by the defenders of equality who have been trained and conditioned to get triggered into impulsive action when someone of color mentions inequality.

[Nadine]

4 minutes ago, pgt_rob said:

Does anyone really think that the protests actually work?

 

I do

 

Civil rights movement, women's suffrage

[pgt_rob]

1 minute ago, Nadine said:

 

I do

 

Civil rights movement, women's suffrage

 

I should be more specific. This particular protest.

[Nadine]

4 minutes ago, DougDew said:

The entire issue is dumb.  Driven by the defenders of equality who have been trained and conditioned to get triggered into impulsive action when someone of color mentions inequality.

I think that perception is the heart of the backlash. Also, it's a sweeping stereotype of anyone with an opposing viewpoint

[NFLfan]

13 minutes ago, csmopar said:

A game is a form of entertainment. Why would I spend hundreds to go to a game to have to get embroiled with a political topic?

 

The kneeling or so called protest is not occurring during the game. I would understand the anger if the protesting came after scoring a TD or making a tackle. It is happening before the game and you cannot see it. Unless that is what you are tuning in for, how do you know who is kneeling? I sat five rows from the sideline at a game last year and could not see if anyone was kneeling. 

 

You seem to be rationalizing this, meaning there may be a different reason why this is upsetting you. 

[Nadine]

1 minute ago, pgt_rob said:

 

I should be more specific. This particular protest.

yes

[throwing BBZ]

8 minutes ago, Buck Showalter said:

Yes because political statements that no one sees are most effective. 

 

 

Maybe they could start covering this issue on CNN, CNBC... the NY Times, Newsweek, College classrooms, or the thousand other sources we are bashed with 24/7.
 Kaep imploded as a starting NFL QB, he FAILED and turned it into a Whine about race. He had his 15 minutes of Fame, made Millions from it, and then he couldn't Man Up to the competition. 
Then he let his girlfriend and her activist cohorts hijack his situation on an NFL sideline to move their agenda.
 Well IMO they certainly did move the subject front and center. And i hope it moved the needle for all the turmoil it caused to my game of football. It did nothing for me.
 I will continue to be educated by the likes of Henry Louis Gates, a Cornell Wild, and even an interesting Van Jones. or a thousand other more meaningful sources.

 
 

[csmopar]

5 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

The kneeling or so called protest is not occurring during the game. I would understand the anger if the protesting came after scoring a TD or making a tackle. It is happening before the game and you cannot see it. Unless that is what you are tuning in for, how do you know who is kneeling? I sat five rows from the sideline at a game last year and could not see if anyone was kneeling. 

 

You seem to be rationalizing this, meaning there may be a different reason why this is upsetting you. 

Maybe not at the games, but the media zooms the cameras in on those kneeling. Can't miss it.  And the "pre game" ceremonies are part of the game.  It's still being viewed in mass by the public.

 

And yes, I've stated my reasons more than once today as to why it gets to me.  I tune in or go to games to get away and enjoy the day.  While it last 2-3 minutes, its still turning the game into a political platform no matter how much I try to block it out.  And I have worked with at risk youth during my career, youth mostly made of of minorities from Detroit, Toledo, Cleveland and Chicago.  I've been in those neighborhoods, I've seen how they are profiled, I've seen and heard the results of that firsthand. So I am probably as aware as I can be on the issue.  That said, there is a time and place

[DougDew]

13 minutes ago, Nadine said:

I think that perception is the heart of the backlash. Also, it's a sweeping stereotype of anyone with an opposing viewpoint

The fans in the stadium want to participate in the ceremony.  They also agree with the underlying issues the players are protesting.  So what does protesting the ceremony that people who agree with you want to perform accomplish?  Everybody agrees with the issues, for the most part.   The protest invites conflict between the players and fans that shouldn't even be there, since both sides agree to the merits of the underlying issues.

 

The conflict persists because the people who joined in defending Kaepernick's original protest are the kinds of people who can never ever admit they were wrong.  They can't admit that Kaep's original protest was misplaced.  Maybe they feel diong so jeopardizes their broader argument.

 

Even reason after reason, rabbit hole after rabbit hole, they doubled down instead of admitting the protest carried out the way it was is wrong.  So now we are still stuck discussing this and the NFL having to make some stupid policy. 

 

[Nadine]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

The conflict persists because the people who joined in defending Kaepernick's original protest are the kinds of people who can never ever admit they were wrong. 

Disagree. Also another stereotype

 

I'm fine with people revering the national anthem and I'm fine with people kneeling. This is America. We get to disagree

[pgt_rob]

Just now, Nadine said:

yes

 

Cool. lol

 

Remind me again in 100 years to see if this "issue" has been totally erased. I'll give you the cliff notes to that story, it won't. You will have the bad apples in the bunch just like anything else. And those people will always be clinging to those bad apples to make it seem like there's a larger issue than it really is. Until there is no longer a bad apple in this topic ever, then it will always be relevant. When will people realize this and move on? For the most part, people put themselves in bad situations. Other than that, these issues are in the minority in comparison. 

[Buck Showalter]

13 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

Maybe they could start covering this issue on CNN, CNBC... the NY Times, Newsweek, College classrooms, or the thousand other sources we are bashed with 24/7.
 Kaep imploded as a starting NFL QB, he FAILED and turned it into a Whine about race. He had his 15 minutes of Fame, made Millions from it, and then he couldn't Man Up to the competition. 
Then he let his girlfriend and her activist cohorts hijack his situation on an NFL sideline to move their agenda.
 Well IMO they certainly did move the subject front and center. And i hope it moved the needle for all the turmoil it caused to my game of football. It did nothing for me.
 I will continue to be educated by the likes of Henry Louis Gates, a Cornell Wild, and even an interesting Van Jones. or a thousand other more meaningful sources.

 
 

Good point. If football players shouldn't be held as authorities on topical/political/racial issues then why should anyone care what they do during the anthem.

[csmopar]

2 minutes ago, pgt_rob said:

 

 For the most part, people put themselves in bad situations. 

From firsthand experience, absolutely correct. Honestly, its a self fulfilling problem that keeps going around and around. Hey, lets rob this store, ok, now I'm caught, I'm out of jail but the police see me walking by a broken store window that was just robbed, so they stop me, I resist and try to fight the police instead of acting calmly and rationally, so the police escate and things get out of hand, you go to jail or end up dead now when you wouldnt have had you remained calm. Kind of like wiping your butt with a tire, **it just never ends and gets all over the place.

[Nadine]

9 minutes ago, pgt_rob said:

For the most part, people put themselves in bad situations

 

Completely disagree.  There are abundant, all too frequent, and horrific examples to the contrary.

 

We can either dismiss it and chalk it up to whining or we can do something about it.

 

[NFLfan]

16 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Maybe not at the games, but the media zooms the cameras in on those kneeling. Can't miss it.  And the "pre game" ceremonies are part of the game.  It's still being viewed in mass by the public.

 

Okay, my response was to your asking why would you spend hundreds to go to a game and have to see a form of protest. 

 

If it is the television stations that are putting this out there for millions to see, why isn't your anger directed at the stations? There is a lot more that the stations could cover.  It is because they know that showing it will evoke feelings of anger and contempt from folks. In the beginning, no one knew Kaepernick and others were protesting because the stations had not yet picked up on it and therefore no one had a problem with it.

 

I am not saying that this is the right way to address these problems. I actually don't think so. I prefer what Doug Baldwin and some others are doing. 

[pgt_rob]

1 minute ago, Nadine said:

 

Completely disagree.  There are abundant, all to frequent, and horrific examples to the contrary.

 

We can either dismiss it and chalk it up to whining or we can do something about it.

 

 

We've been "doing something about it" for years. Outcome = TBD.

[Nadine]

Just now, pgt_rob said:

 

We've been "doing something about it" for years. Outcome = TBD.

ahh, well I'm more in the glass half full camp

[Cynjin]

1 hour ago, Buck Showalter said:

Yes because political statements that no one sees are most effective. 

 

 

They can do it where it's seen, just not on the football field.  Are you saying there are no other possible ways for the players to bring attention to this cause without kneeling during the national anthem?

[Buck Showalter]

2 minutes ago, Cynjin said:

 

They can do it where it's seen, just not on the football field.  Are you saying there are no other possible ways for the players to bring attention to this cause without kneeling during the national anthem?

No I said political statements no one sees are most effective.

Just playing devils advocate. Its all pretty silly to me. People are up in arms because of what some other people are doing during a song.

[Cynjin]

Just now, Buck Showalter said:

No I said political statements no one sees are most effective

 

And I said there are other ways that are visible they could utilize in order to get their point across.