NFL adopts new Anthem policy

[Narcosys]

2 minutes ago, Cynjin said:

 

They do, but that does not make them political.  That makes those people political.

Ya you're right, the anthem by itself is not political, its the personal interpretations and uses of the people that can make them seem so.

[Cynjin]

1 minute ago, Buck Showalter said:

Lol...

Ok

 

Insightful.

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, Cynjin said:

 

Then why are you commenting on what people are doing?

I could care less what you or anyone else does

 

   I was providing suggestions on the way to solve things 

[pgt_rob]

2 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

I agree and I routinely have discussions with school age kids on why certain words can’t be used in certain circles and stop the use of them whenever I can but just like my use of “Coke” for any soft drink it is not very easy to stop

 

Wow. There are no words.... It's easy to stop saying the word FA****. All you have to do is, quit saying it. You're smarter than this PT...

[Jason_]

15 minutes ago, Cynjin said:

 

A couple of things, to the bolded.  No not everything you do is going to be offensive to someone, but I do agree some are offended by things I don't consider to be that big a deal.  That being said, if I knew a person would be offended by something I did, say like wearing a hat inside a home, I would take it off even though I personally don't find that offensive.

 

The second part is what I am talking about, you are being respectful by not cursing around your mom and sister even though you personally do not have a problem with cursing.  You do not make inappropriate jokes in a group setting, probably unless you are around friends that will find the jokes funny.  That's all common courtesy, which I think is great.

 

ok here's where we may differ, I'm not entire sure...i actually have an example of this.  I was staying with family of a friend of a friend and we got back to their house after a long day of sightseeing.  I took my shoes and socks off when we got back to their place.  However I later found out they were horribly offended by me taking my socks off.  I thought it was completely stupid but I put my socks back on.  I was in their home.  I knew right then I would never come back to their home after that trip was over, but I followed their wishes for the remainder of that trip.

 

Now, if I'd been in someone else's home with those same people, and the home owners had no problem with me taking my socks off then I would take my socks off without a concern about the other couple of guests that might have found it offensive.  I am a respectful person and I definitely have common courtesy...but there's a limit.  I'm not going to avoid any potentially offensive comment or action while I'm out in public so as to not offend anyone around me.  If I do something in public you find offensive, then I'm just going to suggest that we walk away from each other so you can't see or hear me.

 

But bottom line, someone telling me "that's offensive and I don't want you to do it" is NOT reason for me to not do something.  If you can give me a legitimate reason that's not "well it's a generally accepted norm" then I'll absolutely consider it.  But if "it's the societal norm" is the only thing you can come up with then I'll quickly and happily ignore your concern.  Again..using you and your in the broad, general sense.

[Cynjin]

Just now, PrincetonTiger said:

 

 

   I was providing suggestions on the way to solve things 

 

 

I don't think it worked.

[PrincetonTiger]

Making people conform is what most veterans have fought against

[Jason_]

13 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

Ya, I probably should have put the sarcasm sign in there.

 

haha..gotcha

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, pgt_rob said:

 

Wow. There are no words.... It's easy to stop saying the word FA****. All you have to do is, quit saying it. You're smarter than this PT...

I am also a realist and have spent my life fighting labels and hatred

 

    It is very hard to stop something that you have seen or done for years see smoking

2 minutes ago, Cynjin said:

 

I don't think it worked.

I fine with that 

  

 

  Now stop

[pgt_rob]

3 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

I am also a realist and have spent my life fighting labels and hatred

 

    It is very hard to stop something that you have seen or done for years see smoking

I fine with that 

  

 

  Now stop

 

Smoking is an addition caused by nicotine. Saying the N word and sexually derogatory hate speech is not an addition. That is just plain stupidity.

[PrincetonTiger]

2 minutes ago, pgt_rob said:

 

Smoking is an addition caused by nicotine. Saying the N word and sexually derogatory hate speech is not an addition. That is just plain stupidity.

Call me stupid than because that is how I feel

 

   Have you read Flowers in the Attic

[Nadine]

38 minutes ago, pgt_rob said:

They are what's wrong with this country

That's not what's wrong with the country

 

Words evolve and have power.  Used to be that the 'diagnosis' for a developmental disability had a scale that included *, imbecile etc.  It was right to stop using them just as it's offensive to call someone a #. I agree that homophobic speech is wrong although I don't listen to that rapper so, I don't know what you are talking about.

 

I think focusing on who is a hypocrite doesn't get us closer to solving the problem anyway.

 

I'm fine with the NFL's policy.  But, the problem is not going away

[Cynjin]

2 minutes ago, J@son said:

 

ok here's where we may differ, I'm not entire sure...i actually have an example of this.  I was staying with family of a friend of a friend and we got back to their house after a long day of sightseeing.  I took my shoes and socks off when we got back to their place.  However I later found out they were horribly offended by me taking my socks off.  I thought it was completely stupid but I put my socks back on.  I was in their home.  I knew right then I would never come back to their home after that trip was over, but I followed their wishes for the remainder of that trip.

 

Now, if I'd been in someone else's home with those same people, and the home owners had no problem with me taking my socks off then I would take my socks off without a concern about the other couple of guests that might have found it offensive.  I am a respectful person and I definitely have common courtesy...but there's a limit.  I'm not going to avoid any potentially offensive comment or action while I'm out in public so as to not offend anyone around me.  If I do something in public you find offensive, then I'm just going to suggest that we walk away from each other so you can't see or hear me.

 

But bottom line, someone telling me "that's offensive and I don't want you to do it" is NOT reason for me to not do something.  If you can give me a legitimate reason that's not "well it's a generally accepted norm" then I'll absolutely consider it.  But if "it's the societal norm" is the only thing you can come up with then I'll quickly and happily ignore your concern.  Again..using you and your in the broad, general sense.

 

We probably do differ there.  If I was around someone I knew found taking my socks off was offensive, I'm not sure why they would, but I would probably avoid it.  The same way I would avoid dropping an F bomb in public.  It is really just a matter of trying to be respectful of others if I knew of someone the didn't like the sound of knuckles cracking, even though I don't think it's a big deal and I do crack my knuckles, I would try not to do it around that person.

 

To the larger point of the kneeling, even though it brings attention to their cause, it is negative attention to many because of the perceived disrespectfulness of the act.  I and I doubt I am alone in this, will not engage in useful dialogue with someone that just did something that they knew was going to offend me.

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, Nadine said:

That's not what's wrong with the country

 

Words evolve and have power.  Used to be that the 'diagnosis' for a developmental disability had a scale that included *, imbecile etc.  It was right to stop using them just as it's offensive to call someone a #. I agree that homophobic speech is wrong although I don't listen to that rapper so, I don't know what you are talking about.

 

I think focusing on who is a hypocrite doesn't get us closer to solving the problem anyway.

 

I'm fine with the NFL's policy.  But, the problem is not going away

We agree again

[Cynjin]

2 minutes ago, Nadine said:

That's not what's wrong with the country

 

Words evolve and have power.  Used to be that the 'diagnosis' for a developmental disability had a scale that included *, imbecile etc.  It was right to stop using them just as it's offensive to call someone a #. I agree that homophobic speech is wrong although I don't listen to that rapper so, I don't know what you are talking about.

 

I think focusing on who is a hypocrite doesn't get us closer to solving the problem anyway.

 

I'm fine with the NFL's policy.  But, the problem is not going away

 

 

Neither does kneeling for the national anthem.

[Nadine]

Just now, Cynjin said:

 

Neither does kneeling for the national anthem.

It does because it gets attention

[Narcosys]

31 minutes ago, pgt_rob said:

 

Wow. There are no words.... It's easy to stop saying the word FA****. All you have to do is, quit saying it. You're smarter than this PT...

@PrincetonTiger

 

Doesnt it take like 21 days to break a habit?

 

Come on, you can do it! I believe in you.

[Cynjin]

9 minutes ago, Nadine said:

It does because it gets attention

 

Negative attention, and as I have said before if you want my help in solving this problem, and I doubt I am alone with this, don't start by doing something that is disrespectful/offensive.  Your message is now lost because the vast majority of the attention is on the act, not the cause.  It is counter productive.

[Buck Showalter]

21 minutes ago, Cynjin said:

 

Insightful.

Lol...

Obviously wasn't trying to be insightful, I was trying to politely bow out of the conversation, that, had become somewhat circular, as you were quoting me, but twisting the narative.

 

Again, I don't care what people do during a song, some people obviously do, I find those that do get upset somewhat hypocritical...

 

I'm done...

 

[Narcosys]

8 minutes ago, Nadine said:

It does because it gets attention

Any publicity is good publicity. But the focus is not entirely on the problem as it should be. 

[PrincetonTiger]

The Kneeling Is just the latest in a long line of worthy protests

    Suffragette marches

     Montgomery Bus Boycotts

     Woolworth(Lunch Counter) Sit Ins

      Freedom Marches

       Etc.

 

[Cynjin]

1 minute ago, Buck Showalter said:

Lol...

Obviously wasn't trying to be insightful, I was trying to politely bow out of the conversation, that, had become somewhat circular, as you were quoting me, but twisting the narative.

 

Again, I don't care what people do during a song, some people obviously do, I find those that do get upset somewhat hypocritical...

 

I'm done...

 

 

I was twisting the narrative?  Go look in the mirror and while you're at it look up the word hypocritical.

[PrincetonTiger]

5 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

@PrincetonTiger

 

Doesnt it take like 21 days to break a habit?

 

Come on, you can do it! I believe in you.

I only order Iced Tea

 

   It takes time that people don’t have or don’t want to give up but I wouldn’t know about Smoking or Drinking since I saw the negative effects of smoking and can’t drink

[csmopar]

39 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

No for me

there's more people in the world watching the NFL than just you...

36 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Making people conform is what most veterans have fought against

Granted but as a veteran, kneeling is completely disrespectful to those who are buried in Arlington and others.  

13 minutes ago, Nadine said:

It does because it gets attention

So does a toddler throwing a fit in a toy section of walmart when told she can't have a toy because she was acting out at school... 

[DougDew]

42 minutes ago, J@son said:

But bottom line, someone telling me "that's offensive and I don't want you to do it" is NOT reason for me to not do something.  If you can give me a legitimate reason that's not "well it's a generally accepted norm" then I'll absolutely consider it.  But if "it's the societal norm" is the only thing you can come up with then I'll quickly and happily ignore your concern.  Again..using you and your in the broad, general sense.

I think most people would agree with you.

 

The problem with this situation, in part, is that the reasons they are giving for protesting the flag/anthem do not seem legitimate.  The causes and concern raised are legitimate, but linking the problem with the anthem is offensive to many.  First, it makes no sense.  Second, when you say that the anthem is a racist song, it tends puts people who do stand for the anthem on the side of supporting racism.  Being called a racist is offensive.    Players are choosing to offend 70,000 paying customers, without realizing it maybe.

 

Its not a matter of interpretation.  That's what they are doing. 

 

And, there are agitating groups, community leaders, who want the public to believe this country is perpetually racist.  They won't let the players publicly back down.  Implying that 70,000 people in the stands indirectly support racism is nothing new to them.

 

 

 

[Buck Showalter]

6 minutes ago, Cynjin said:

 

I was twisting the narrative?  Go look in the mirror and while you're at it look up the word hypocritical.

O.k.

You win.

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, csmopar said:

there's more people in the world watching the NFL than just you...

Granted but as a veteran, kneeling is completely disrespectful to those who are buried in Arlington and others.  

So does a toddler throwing a fit in a toy section of walmart when told she can't have a toy because she was acting out at school... 

O because I would have been 4F my views don’t count

 

 

    I have a Great Aunt and Uncle buried in Arlington and I have several veterans in my lineage(GGF was a WWI vet, a GF who served in WWII, a GF who was exempt from service because of his job as a Butcher, an Uncle who went to Vietnam another who went to the NG, and my Mom and Dad were drafted  but were exempt for various reasons

 

   That is your opinion not fact 

[Cynjin]

4 minutes ago, Buck Showalter said:

O.k.

You win.

 

I thought you were done.  Thanks for the laugh though, your obliviousness to your own hypocrisy is amusing.

[21isSuperman]

3 hours ago, DougDew said:

Yes.  It was longwinded and confusing. 

 

The point:  People have tried to put some righteous meaning behind the Kaepernick kneeling, taking him at his word that he was kneeling to protest "inequality".  No.  He was kneeling because it was the only visible way of giving his team a big chuck you farley for being benched in favor of Blaine Gabbert, which signaled his future release.  The "perpetual defenders of equality" crowd joined in on cue, triggered by the word "inequality", then came up with other lame excuses for what kneeling for the anthem is supposed to mean, going  down rabbit hole after rabbit hole since none of the reasons made any sense at all.

 

Its my understanding that the current reason, or at least one reason in he recent past, is police brutality.  Ferguson, Baltimore, other cities have had their problems, but all police forces are administered by local municipalities.  Seems stupid to protest a NATIONAL anthem over police brutality when the nation doesn't even have a police force.  If a Raven wants to protest police brutality, maybe he should stop representing the city of Baltimore and quit being a Raven.  Instead, they protest the flag, which effectively is nothing more than giving their paying fans the finger, since the paying fans remove their hats and want to participate in the ceremony of standing.

 

The entire issue is dumb.  Driven by the defenders of equality who have been trained and conditioned to get triggered into impulsive action when someone of color mentions inequality.

You missed Kaep's point entirely.  He wasn't doing this as a form of protest for being benched.  He was doing this to bring light to social injustices in the United States.  Whether this is the most effective method or not is another story, but it certainly got people talking and brought attention to it.  Choosing to ignore inequality doesn't mean there is equality

[Cynjin]

4 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

O because I would have been 4F my views don’t count

 

 

    I have a Great Aunt and Uncle buried in Arlington and I have several veterans in my lineage(GGF was a WWI vet, a GF who served in WWII, a GF who was exempt from service because of his job as a Butcher, an Uncle who went to Vietnam another who went to the NG, and my Mom and Dad were drafted  but were exempt for various reasons

 

   That is your opinion not fact 

 

My how you like to conjure up statements.  Where did the poster say your views don't count, of course, they count.  However, as you posted to me.  You do realize that other people have a different opinion.

 

Also, his opinion about kneeling being disrespectful is held by the vast majority of military personnel that I know.

[DougDew]

7 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

You missed Kaep's point entirely.  He wasn't doing this as a form of protest for being benched.  He was doing this to bring light to social injustices in the United States.  Whether this is the most effective method or not is another story, but it certainly got people talking and brought attention to it.  Choosing to ignore inequality doesn't mean there is equality

Yep and nope.  Yep, that's what he said, but nope, that's not the reason.

 

The kneeling began almost immediately after chatter about, and finally, being benched in favor of Blaine Gabbert.  B L A I N E  G A B B E R T.    The chatter and final benching also signaled he was going to be released sometime soon.

 

When asked why he knelt, he said it was about inequality in this country.  And people took him at his word. 

 

People taking him at his word that his kneeling had some sort of social meaning rather than just being a baby not wanting to participate in a normal NFL ritual anymore is what started this whole thing.

[pgt_rob]

36 minutes ago, Nadine said:

That's not what's wrong with the country

 

Words evolve and have power.  Used to be that the 'diagnosis' for a developmental disability had a scale that included *, imbecile etc.  It was right to stop using them just as it's offensive to call someone a #. I agree that homophobic speech is wrong although I don't listen to that rapper so, I don't know what you are talking about.

 

I think focusing on who is a hypocrite doesn't get us closer to solving the problem anyway.

 

I'm fine with the NFL's policy.  But, the problem is not going away

 

What does that even mean when talking about the N Word and the word Fa**ot? 

 

Complains about racism, but uses racist and derogatory words on the daily. Isn't that hypercritical? Why even try to make the change if you can't even change yourself.

 

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, Cynjin said:

 

My how you like to conjure up statements.  Where did the poster say your views don't count, of course, they count.  However, as you posted to me.  You do realize that other people have a different opinion.

 

Also, his opinion about kneeling being disrespectful is held by the vast majority of military personnel that I know.

They can have them but anyone that feels that the opposite is wrong

    That is to the way it works in the America I am proud to call home

 

 

      

 

          

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, pgt_rob said:

 

What does that even mean when talking about the N Word and the word Fa**ot? 

 

Complains about racism, but uses racist and derogatory words on the daily. Isn't that hypercritical? Why even try to make the change if you can't even change yourself.

 

Sadly in certain circles it is not viewed a racist

[pgt_rob]

Just now, PrincetonTiger said:

Sadly in certain circles it is not viewed a racist

 

That is what's wrong with this country. Through and through. 

 

Pathetic.

[PrincetonTiger]

3 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Yep and nope.  Yep, that's what he said, but nope, that's not the reason.

 

The kneeling began almost immediately after chatter about, and finally, being benched in favor of Blaine Gabbert.  B L A I N E  G A B B E R T.    The chatter and final benching also signaled he was going to be released sometime soon.

 

When asked why he knelt, he said it was about inequality in this country.  And people took him at his word. 

 

People taking him at his word that his kneeling had some sort of social meaning rather than just being a baby not wanting to participate in a normal NFL ritual anymore is what caused this whole thing.

The kneeling happened after multiple incidents of racism including what he felt was racism of being bench for a white QB

[PrincetonTiger]

2 minutes ago, pgt_rob said:

 

That is what's wrong with this country. Through and through. 

 

Pathetic.

But it happens and word on a NFL forum means nothing unless you do something about it

     I do everything in my power to stop it

[Cynjin]

2 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

They can have them but anyone that feels that the opposite is wrong

    That is to the way it works in the America I am proud to call home

 

 

      

 

          

Let's be realistic, you don't think that I am right in my views on kneeling for the national anthem and that is fine, it doesn't mean that my views don't count.  I and many others see the kneeling as being disrespectful.  Think about this logically, if I want to draw attention to a cause that I find important, is the best way to do it to intentionally be disrespectful to a large group of the public that I would like to pay attention to the cause?  I would suggest that there are better ways to bring attention to a cause that would not immediately turn off millions of people and actually keep attention focused on the cause and not the perceived disrespectful act.

 

[Reality Check]

22 hours ago, Reality Check said:

The original intent of playing the National Anthem prior to NFL games around WWII in an effort to build "Patriotism"..  Today, however, the National Anthem has become a very divisive thing within the NFL .... which completely goes against the original intent.

 

With this being said, I think that the National Anthem should no longer be played prior to the games.  Afterall, how many other "entertainment events" follow this tradition in our country?...Concerts, plays, shows, etc??? Does anyone care that it is not played when they go to a concert? Why MUST it be played at a football game?...

 

Don't get me wrong...I am a Veteran and a devoted citizen who stands very strongly in favor of our National Anthem and all it stands for to so many people...including those who choose to exercise their "right to protest peacefully"... BUT, my feelings are such based on the divisive nature of the anthem, especially in the context of the NFL.

 

 

Good article supporting my aforementioned views on the subject...

 

https://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2018/05/24/donald-trump-national-anthem-nfl-protests-kneeling

 

 

[pgt_rob]

1 minute ago, PrincetonTiger said:

But it happens and word on a NFL forum means nothing unless you do something about it

     I do everything in my power to stop it

 

But according to you, people may say racist words as long as it's apart of their upbringing. LOL. 

 

Wants to fight racism, but can't stop being racist. Makes sense. lol