NFL adopts new Anthem policy

[Nadine]

22 minutes ago, pgt_rob said:

 

Hopefully we can get some players kneeling for recycling. We've GOT to get that going. Wouldn't that be amazing to see celebrity sports athletes kneeling for recycling. It's almost like we don't have something in place for that already? Hmm.. lol. I'm just kidding but I understand what you're saying. There will always be bad apples in the bunch. Racism is a thing. Sadly it will never go away. But that's not 100% why these players are protesting.

 

One reason why I think the kneeling isn't super effective is because many of the players kneeling are honing in on racism as only a problem against blacks or immigrants. What about all races? That's like getting a bunch of white players kneeling because they feel like they're the only ones being discriminated against. Doesn't make much sense. How about we do something to get rid of the "N" word? I hear blacks use that word almost on the daily. It's hypocritical to see a player kneel for racial discrimination but then use the N word like it's a no big deal. 

 

Same with famous rappers like Eminem. He supports the clause of blacks being discriminated against. But uses sexually derogatory and homophobic words in his songs. But nobody says anything about that?

 

There's so many hypocritical holes in these celebrity's stories that it's insane. 

 

Hypocrisy abounds these days and no one seems to care. Whataboutism abounds as well. you can talk yourself out of caring about most anything.

 

Right is right and wrong is wrong. I support positive change. I believe in Martin Luther Kings vision.  I think Margaret Meade was 100% spot on when she said

 

Quote

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.

 

btw, my husband is not a bad apple.  He's just a bit ocd

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, J@son said:

 

First world problems.  

I learned in PoliSci classes during HS it is often pointless to win over some on the other side

[csmopar]

4 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

See what? It goes back to what you claimed was not so. You and others believe this: "Shut up and play. It is your problem, not mine. I am trying to watch a football game. I couldn't care less what is happening to you or folks who are not in my family." 

 

I think that is a very sad commentary on our society. But it is just my opinion.

No one is saying that at all...

[Cynjin]

15 minutes ago, J@son said:

 

Why?  Says who?  Why can I not have just as much respect for the Anthem if I'm sitting, driving etc?  Do you stand in your living room for every game when the anthem is played?  Do you think that everyone that's up in arms about the players kneeling stand in their homes when the anthem comes on? If you're driving down the street and the anthem is played on the radio, do you pull over, get out of your car and stand at attention until it's over?

 

YOU say it's respectful to do so...I say it's absurd to think that I can't have just as much respect if I'm sitting or wearing a hat as I would if I'm standing.  And again, what if someone else truly believes that kneeling before the flag is an even more thoughtful way to show respect than to stand for it?  They can't show the respect that they want because people like you would try to convince that person that they're not as respectful as you are.  That's not true.  They're just showing respect in a different way.  

 

It's completely arbitrary.  It's like there was a group of people standing around Betsy Ross while she was knitting the flag discussing the ways they think the flag should be respected and they just started drawing conditions out of a hat.

 

Look, if you cannot understand generally accepted norms, I don't know what to tell you.  I am not the only one that says taking off your hat is respectful, heck most of the time the public address announcer even says to take off your hats and stand for the national anthem.

 

I can't recall ever hearing the anthem played on the car radio.  But if I do hear the national anthem being played in other settings I will stop and stand.  I recall being an outdoor jazz concert when one of the bands played the national anthem, and guess what, everyone that I saw stood and was respectful.

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, Nadine said:

Hypocrisy abounds these days and no one seems to care. Whataboutism abounds as well. you can talk yourself out of caring about most anything.

 

Right is right and wrong is wrong. I support positive change. I believe in Martin Luther Kings vision.  I think Margaret Meade was 100% spot on when she said

 

 

So true

  the only reason I differ a tiny bit is because of my Political Science background and hatred of confrontation 

[PrincetonTiger]

3 minutes ago, Cynjin said:

 

Look, if you cannot understand generally accepted norms, I don't know what to tell you.  I am not the only one that says taking off your hat is respectful, heck most of the time the public address announcer even says to take off your hats and stand for the national anthem.

 

I can't recall ever hearing the anthem played on the car radio.  But if I do hear the national anthem being played in other settings I will stop and stand.  I recall being an outdoor jazz concert when one of the bands played the national anthem, and guess what, everyone that I saw stood and was respectful.

Did you miss the TV/Radio Sign off of the 70s/80s/90s

[PrincetonTiger]

10 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

See what? It goes back to what you claimed was not so. You and others believe this: "Shut up and play. It is your problem, not mine. I am trying to watch a football game. I couldn't care less what is happening to you or folks who are not in my family." 

 

I think that is a very sad commentary on our society. But it is just my opinion.

100% Agree

[Nadine]

46 minutes ago, csmopar said:

I would think that minorities, including members of my own family that went through that period would disagree.  Sure things are bad, but there's no longer forced segregation or people being beaten to get them to pick cotton etc. 

 

I'm not saying to stop calling attention to it, I'm saying we're past the calling attention phase and we need to move into the problem solving phase.  Calling attention to it over and over is just treading water, problem has been identified, called attention to, so now lets fix it, together, all sides as a nation.

 

Sorry, I should have clarified.  I was referring to the recent increase in hate crimes.

 

I think we're not past the calling attention to it phase at all. We need to continue to shine a light on this

 

I'd be all for a problem solving phase though

[Cynjin]

12 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

You do realize that others have opinions that may differ than yours

 

Really?  And where have I indicated they don't.  You and others here apparently believe it is okay to be intentionally disrespectful/offensive to others.  I, however, do not agree with this stance, I believe I should try to be respectful and not try to intentionally offend others by saying of doing things that I know in advance will offend them.

 

[pgt_rob]

4 minutes ago, Nadine said:

Hypocrisy abounds these days and no one seems to care. Whataboutism abounds as well. you can talk yourself out of caring about most anything.

 

Right is right and wrong is wrong. I support positive change. I believe in Martin Luther Kings vision.  I think Margaret Meade was 100% spot on when she said

 

 

btw, my husband is not a bad apple.  He's just a bit ocd

 

Sorry, didn't mean it like that. Not saying your husband was.

 

People look up to these sports athletes and celebrities. They realize this so they protest during NFL games for that reason. But after they're done protesting, they go back to saying the N word and other stuff like that. Eminem says homophobic words in his songs and feels this country is racist against blacks and minorities. WAKE UP FROM YOUR HYPOCRITICAL DREAMS! You can't say those words and protest at the same time. That is just *ic on so many levels. This is why I can't take most of these guys serious. 

[Jason_]

1 minute ago, Cynjin said:

 

Look, if you cannot understand generally accepted norms, I don't know what to tell you.  I am not the only one that says taking off your hat is respectful, heck most of the time the public address announcer even says to take off your hats and stand for the national anthem.

 

I can't recall ever hearing the anthem played on the car radio.  But if I do hear the national anthem being played in other settings I will stop and stand.  I recall being an outdoor jazz concert when one of the bands played the national anthem, and guess what, everyone that I saw stood and was respectful.

 

I completely understand "generally accepted norm" but some of them are just stupid.  Other "generally accepted norms" from the past were downright harmful...slavery was at one time considered a generally accepted norm. Times change, people change.  We can't hold on and try to enforce a set of values that were created hundreds of years ago.

[backshoulderfade]

9 minutes ago, DougDew said:

True.  But if the dissent is based upon a misunderstanding of how it was founded, then the dissent needs to be challenged.  And if others are purposefully feeding people nonsense about how it was founded in order to elevate an agenda, they need to be called out for it. 

All of this allowed through the provisions of free speech. Now, that is not to say I agree or disagree with the NFL's decision from an idealogical point of view. I think the distinction needs to be made that denying someone a platform to exercise their free speech infringes upon that right free speech itself. I think the issue is when players are punished for exercising it.

 

I think the other issue with this is whether the policy is at odds with the CBA, something I am absolutely unqualified to talk about. All told, it is a very complex issue. I was merely stating that when taking a look at the specifics of the situation itself, it is ridiculous.

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, Cynjin said:

 

Really?  And where have I indicated they don't.  You and others here apparently believe it is okay to be intentionally disrespectful/offensive to others.  I, however, do not agree with this stance, I believe I should try to be respectful and not try to intentionally offend others by saying of doing things that I know in advance will offend them.

 

I never said that 

 

   I said that as a Player/Coach I saw the teams being brought out before the NA was anticlimactic because the players lose every bit of adrenaline that have whipped up from the PreGame

[NFLfan]

10 minutes ago, csmopar said:

No one is saying that at all...

 

That is what I heard from that fan and you applauded it.

[PrincetonTiger]

4 minutes ago, pgt_rob said:

 

Sorry, didn't mean it like that. Not saying your husband was.

 

People look up to these sports athletes and celebrities. They realize this so they protest during NFL games for that reason. But after they're done protesting, they go back to saying the N word and other stuff like that. Eminem says homophobic words in his songs and feels this country is racist against blacks and minorities. WAKE UP FROM YOUR HYPOCRITICAL DREAMS! You can't say those words and protest at the same time. That is just *ic on so many levels. This is why I can't take most of these guys serious. 

The words you complain about mean different things to different people and often not negative 

[pgt_rob]

2 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

The words you complain about mean different things to different people and often not negative 

 

 

LOL. That is the funnest thing I heard all week. Are you really trying to justify the N word? The F word (derogatory word for gay people)? These words need to die off out of our vocabulary. That would be the step in the right direction to fight discrimination...........

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, pgt_rob said:

 

LOL. That is the funnest thing I heard all week. Are you really trying to justify the N word? The F word (derogatory word for gay people)? These words need to die off out of our vocabulary. That would be the step in the right direction to fight discrimination...........

I agree but I have also heard the certain words used in other ways

 

    I hate the use of labels but certain words are ingrained into certain societies and those outside of them cannot deride the use of them by those societies 

[pgt_rob]

3 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

I agree but I have also heard the certain words used in other ways

 

    I hate the use of labels but certain words are ingrained into certain societies and those outside of them cannot deride the use of them by those societies 

 

That is the biggest load of horse crap. They are what's wrong with this country. Point blank simple as that. Those words are offensive. Eminem is not a gay man, why can he say Fa**** in his songs without repercussion? By your words, I should be able to say the N word even though I am white. Makes no sense at all... If those words were erased, our country would be better off and we would be nicer to each other instantly. 

[Cynjin]

17 minutes ago, J@son said:

 

Well first that's not entirely true.  But some people get offended and bent out of shape over the simplest things and in those situations, yes I have no problem with them being offended by something I've done.  Some people really need to be knocked down a few pegs so they realize they're not the center of the universe.  

 

Have you ever heard the saying, "You can please all of the people some of the time, or some of the people all of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time?"  That's one of the truest statements I've ever heard.  No matter what I do, SOMEONE is going to be offended by it.  I could very discreetly and quietly burp into my hand, say excuse me and there's still someone out there that would react as though I'd just slaughtered a crate full of kittens.  I'm not going to walk around on egg shells my entire life in hopes of trying to never offend anyone.  And if I meet someone that gets offended by something I've done, then I just don't spend time with that person anymore.  

 

But on the other hand, even though I curse like a sailor, I know my mom and sister don't really like that kind of language so I don't use profanity around them.  I don't make inappropriate jokes in a group setting unless I'm sure that no one around would be offended by it.  

 

A couple of things, to the bolded.  No not everything you do is going to be offensive to someone, but I do agree some are offended by things I don't consider to be that big a deal.  That being said, if I knew a person would be offended by something I did, say like wearing a hat inside a home, I would take it off even though I personally don't find that offensive.

 

The second part is what I am talking about, you are being respectful by not cursing around your mom and sister even though you personally do not have a problem with cursing.  You do not make inappropriate jokes in a group setting, probably unless you are around friends that will find the jokes funny.  That's all common courtesy, which I think is great.

[DougDew]

13 minutes ago, backshoulderfade said:

All of this allowed through the provisions of free speech. Now, that is not to say I agree or disagree with the NFL's decision from an idealogical point of view. I think the distinction needs to be made that denying someone a platform to exercise their free speech infringes upon that right free speech itself. I think the issue is when players are punished for exercising it.

 

I think the other issue with this is whether the policy is at odds with the CBA, something I am absolutely unqualified to talk about. All told, it is a very complex issue. I was merely stating that when taking a look at the specifics of the situation itself, it is ridiculous.

The concept of free speech applies to the government not being able to arrest someone for protesting.  It has nothing to do with a company telling an employee what they can or cannot do or talk about while on company time.

 

Nobody is arguing that protesters should be arrested, so the concept of free speech shouldn't even be raised in this discussion.

 

Another datapoint of misunderstanding that clutters the issue.

 

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, pgt_rob said:

 

That is the biggest load of horse crap. They are what's wrong with this country. Point blank simple as that. Those words are offensive. Eminem is not a gay man, why can he say Fa**** in his songs without repercussion? By your words, I should be able to say the N word even though I am white. Makes no sense at all...

Did I ever say it is right

 

   I fight labels everyday but just because a person uses a certain term because of how or where they were raised does not diminish their worth

[Narcosys]

1 hour ago, Cynjin said:

 

Neither the military nor the anthem is political.

Shouldn't be, but people use them as a means to further an agenda.

[Cynjin]

35 minutes ago, Buck Showalter said:

Lol. What? 

Yeah, I don't care how other people react to a song. Some people do & it has gotten some people pretty worked up. That is too bad. But trying to enforce people to behave a certain way doesn't seem like something someone who supports a truly free country would do.

 

No government is trying to dictate the way people behave in this situation, so your point is moot.  If you are referring to the NFL, well yes employers do get to dictate how their employees behave in the workplace and quite frankly out of the workplace in some situations.  That has little to do with supporting a free country.

[Narcosys]

1 hour ago, Buck Showalter said:

Lol... "Parroted" hillarious, in a fairly heated/devisive discussion of how people should respond when they hear a combination of musical notes & phonetic signifiers...

 

I'm just saying, your statement was nearly verbatim of stitches comment.

[Cynjin]

40 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Not sure why you are so concerned with what others do 

 

Why are you?

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, Cynjin said:

 

Why are you?

I am not

[Narcosys]

1 hour ago, J@son said:

 

well whether they should or not really is irrelevant.  the NFL has the authority to make whatever rules they want so long as they don't violate the CBA.  Any private employer has this right.  Now if the NFL were trying to create rules regarding what type of protesting players can do on their own time then I'd have a problem with that.  

Ya, I probably should have put the sarcasm sign in there.

[pgt_rob]

1 minute ago, PrincetonTiger said:

 

   I fight labels everyday but just because a person uses a certain term because of how or where they were raised does not diminish their worth

 

Teaching your kids to say those words does diminish their worth. Those words hold them back extensively from this world. I don't give a crap where they are from. People say it whether they are raised in a house, trailer, apartment, ghetto, rich neighborhood, etc. None of that makes it justifiable. Get rid of those words and this world would become a little less racist. There's a reason why we can't say those words on this forum. It's censored. People who talk like this daily look like fools.

[Narcosys]

46 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

It didn’t 

Kinda did, the argument turned more about kneeling during the anthem than police brutality.

[Cynjin]

27 minutes ago, J@son said:

 

I completely understand "generally accepted norm" but some of them are just stupid.  Other "generally accepted norms" from the past were downright harmful...slavery was at one time considered a generally accepted norm. Times change, people change.  We can't hold on and try to enforce a set of values that were created hundreds of years ago.

 

 

According to you, all I am saying is how about taking others feelings into consideration just like you do for your mother and sister. 

[csmopar]

1 minute ago, Narcosys said:

Kinda did, the argument turned more about kneeling during the anthem than police brutality.

yep.  Which is why I said had they done it just once, it'd gotten the point across, no they had to do it repeatedly. 

[Buck Showalter]

6 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

I'm just saying, your statement was nearly verbatim of stitches comment.

Neat. Mustve missed his statement.

 

[Cynjin]

10 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

Shouldn't be, but people use them as a means to further an agenda.

 

They do, but that does not make them political.  That makes those people political.

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, pgt_rob said:

 

Teaching your kids to say those words does diminish their worth. Those words hold them back extensively from this world. I don't give a crap where they are from. People say it whether they are raised in a house, trailer, apartment, ghetto, rich neighborhood, etc. None of that makes it justifiable. Get rid of those words and this world would become a little less racist. There's a reason why we can't say those words on this forum. It's censored. People who talk like this daily look like fools.

I agree and I routinely have discussions with school age kids on why certain words can’t be used in certain circles and stop the use of them whenever I can but just like my use of “Coke” for any soft drink it is not very easy to stop

[JColts72]

Love it or leave it...Roger/and the coward owners should have enforced this last year. Perhaps they were worried about their ratings sinking and fans leaving the NFL Sunday ticket in droves.

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, Cynjin said:

 

They do, but that does not make them political.  That makes those people political.

Yes it can

[Narcosys]

34 minutes ago, Buck Showalter said:

Neat. Mustve missed his statement.

 

Sorry, that comment wasn't keeping myself in check and could have been perceived as instigating.

[Buck Showalter]

10 minutes ago, Cynjin said:

 

No government is trying to dictate the way people behave in this situation, so your point is moot.  If you are referring to the NFL, well yes employers do get to dictate how their employees behave in the workplace and quite frankly out of the workplace in some situations.  That has little to do with supporting a free country.

Lol...

Ok

[Cynjin]

9 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

I am not

 

Then why are you commenting on what people are doing?

[PrincetonTiger]

7 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

Kinda did, the argument turned more about kneeling during the anthem than police brutality.

No for me