Fat Clemenza

Sirianni's written tests to players

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Its been reported before on this forum, but here's an article about Colts OC giving his players written tests.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/new-colts-oc-is-giving-players-written-tests-and-at-least-one-player-likes-it/

 

The players are expected to understand what everyone else is doing too: "It's about knowing the responsibility of the other 10 offensive players on the field in a system that will be up-tempo and uses a number of different formations to find and exploit mismatches...." (Sirianni)

 

And if the offense gets humming and Sirianni gets hired away in 2-3 years, Reich will find someone else but AL can continue to grow in the same system and won't have to learn yet another new one.  That's why I was on board with McDaniels over Bowles, Toub, Patricia (well, everyone except Shurmur).  Love what I'm hearing about the new offense, so glad we end up with  Reich!!!

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Also, I skipped the usual "IF Andrew is ok" caveat / disclaimer.

I'm going with what CB says.  He's been pretty honest about everything (except for his pre-draft BPA quotes, and I'm fine with that)  

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its an interesting idea, but it sounds like something you do to college players instead of professional players. 

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The Patriots and Mcdaniels do pop quizzes all the time.  CR91

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2 minutes ago, krunk said:

The Patriots and Mcdaniels do pop quizzes all the time.  CR91

 

ive never heard that. where did you hear that?

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http://www.espn.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4785550/with-unfamiliar-foe-on-tap-patriots-bill-belichick-is-professor-like-with-pop-quizzes-for-players

 

"So if a player intends to stay with the Patriots, he’d better not let his play or mental preparation decline. And if it does, Belichick will be the first to find out with his pop quizzes, detail-oriented approach to film study and incredible observational skills at practice."

https://patriotswire.usatoday.com/2016/11/08/whats-it-like-to-play-for-bill-belichick/

 

McDaniels berates players and, like Mangini, gives pop quizzes. The idea: Fear and shame produce motivation and improvement. Does it work? "It just makes players miserable," one NFL veteran says.

https://www.si.com/vault/2009/10/19/105867445/the-young-and-the-tactless

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21 minutes ago, Fat Clemenza said:

Also, I skipped the usual "IF Andrew is ok" caveat / disclaimer.

I'm going with what CB says.  He's been pretty honest about everything (except for his pre-draft BPA quotes, and I'm fine with that)  

Just maybe Ballard's board was different than what some media guy said they were?  Calling Ballard dishonest when you really don't have a clue what his board looked like is not exactly a true statement.

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Feel sorry for the kids that thought exactly what I did when I graduated college, "I'll never have to take another test again!". Wrong!

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It's pretty common practice for teams to test players on the offense, defense, STs.  Dungy used to talk about giving players the game plan test that had to be turned on the Friday before the game.

 

I thought stuff like this was pretty common knowledge.

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4 minutes ago, Boiler_Colt said:

Feel sorry for the kids that thought exactly what I did when I graduated college, "I'll never have to take another test again!". Wrong!

Life is a test. :D

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18 minutes ago, krunk said:

 

 

http://www.espn.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4785550/with-unfamiliar-foe-on-tap-patriots-bill-belichick-is-professor-like-with-pop-quizzes-for-players

 

"So if a player intends to stay with the Patriots, he’d better not let his play or mental preparation decline. And if it does, Belichick will be the first to find out with his pop quizzes, detail-oriented approach to film study and incredible observational skills at practice."

https://patriotswire.usatoday.com/2016/11/08/whats-it-like-to-play-for-bill-belichick/

 

McDaniels berates players and, like Mangini, gives pop quizzes. The idea: Fear and shame produce motivation and improvement. Does it work? "It just makes players miserable," one NFL veteran says.

https://www.si.com/vault/2009/10/19/105867445/the-young-and-the-tactless

 

McDaniels berates players. . . odd usually when I see him on TV he's the one getting berated by Tom Brady.

 

 

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29 minutes ago, CR91 said:

its an interesting idea, but it sounds like something you do to college players instead of professional players. 

 

That's what much of this team is...at this point.

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13 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

McDaniels berates players. . . odd usually when I see him on TV he's the one getting berated by Tom Brady.

 

 

He berated them in Denver

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49 minutes ago, Fat Clemenza said:

Also, I skipped the usual "IF Andrew is ok" caveat / disclaimer.

I'm going with what CB says.  He's been pretty honest about everything (except for his pre-draft BPA quotes, and I'm fine with that)  

 

Leave the caveat, take the cannoli.  

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46 minutes ago, CR91 said:

its an interesting idea, but it sounds like something you do to college players instead of professional players. 

Keep in mind, we have a TON of players fresh out of college, some didn't complete college before going pro and aren't even old enough to buy a beer.

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2 hours ago, Fat Clemenza said:

Also, I skipped the usual "IF Andrew is ok" caveat / disclaimer.

I'm going with what CB says.  He's been pretty honest about everything (except for his pre-draft BPA quotes, and I'm fine with that)  

 

I think people looked at last year's draft, & assumed that Ballard would approach this draft the same way. When you look at the 2 side-by-side, it's obvious which one was actually the BPA approach, and which one addressed serious roster holes.

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2 hours ago, CR91 said:

its an interesting idea, but it sounds like something you do to college players instead of professional players. 

 

Clearly it wasn't something our last coaching staff did. They didn't even have the common sense to scout our own offensive tendencies, so pop quizzing the players was likely a very foreign concept.

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2 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Just maybe Ballard's board was different than what some media guy said they were?  Calling Ballard dishonest when you really don't have a clue what his board looked like is not exactly a true statement.

 

He didn't call Ballard dishonest....    I think you've misinterpreted @Fat Clemenza's meaning....

 

I think he was trying to say Ballard gave off a very nice smoke screen.   Everyone thought we'd be taking Roquan Smith.     Few had us taking Nelson.     And Nelson was the target all along.

 

On the day he traded with the Jets,  Ballard said there were starting caliber guards in R's 2, 3 and 4.    Then on Day 2 of the draft,  he said he took Smith because he was the last starting caliber guard.     I think he meant starting caliberg guard AS A ROOKIE,  because I'm sure other guards taken later will start at some point in their career.

 

But Ballard gave off a very nice head fake.     That's how I took Clemanza's meaning.

 

If I'm wrong,  he'll correct me...

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7 hours ago, CR91 said:

its an interesting idea, but it sounds like something you do to college players instead of professional players. 

 

Remember.....

 

In Ballard's 1.5 years with the team,  he has nearly turned over the roster....   roughly 50 percent last year,  and I'd guess another 25-35 percent this year.

 

We've gone from one of the OLDEST teams in the NFL to one of the YOUNGEST.    And rule number one for young players,   they make mistakes.    Mental mistakes.     There's more teaching going on in the NFL than ever before because the college's aren't doing a good enough job.

 

And since the whole team is now learning new systems,   I think tests and pop quizes are a good thing.  And judging by the comments from the players --- they like them.   So far.

 

Right now,  change is good.    Hopefully it'll stay that way for a good long while.....

 

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37 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

Clearly it wasn't something our last coaching staff did. They didn't even have the common sense to scout our own offensive tendencies, so pop quizzing the players was likely a very foreign concept.

Probably because they didn't know it or understand it....  :scratch:

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39 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

Clearly it wasn't something our last coaching staff did. They didn't even have the common sense to scout our own offensive tendencies, so pop quizzing the players was likely a very foreign concept.

 

I also think pagano gave too much responsibility to the OC. Pagano never worried about that side of the ball 

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2 hours ago, lollygagger8 said:

Put em to the test....I love it

I agree. Keep their feet to the coals.

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3 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Life is a test. :D

I sure don't feel sorry for them they're getting paid pretty good money and they have to be able to learn something everyday like we do

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Given that this is going to be a variant of the Philly O, this testing makes too much sense. The motions Philly uses constantly puts players into new positions, you HAVE to know where everyone is. Guaranteed that theres going to be times where the RB will run WR routes out of motion. TE will go in motion to act as a FB attacking the A-C gaps with a pull from the guards and/or a tackle. Hilton, Doyel, and/or Hines are probably going to be in motion nearly every play, Ebron is probably going to motion out of the line and flip the field constantly. Bet that we'll see "Heavy" formations, with Earl Grey sometimes moving out to a tackle look for some bullying and bagging.

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3 hours ago, CR91 said:

 

I also think pagano gave too much responsibility to the OC. Pagano never worried about that side of the ball 

 

100%, but in hindsight, that was probably a good thing, right? I mean, when Luck was healthy, it was a top 10 unit, regardless of how predictable they were most of the time.

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I really like this idea. These dudes are getting paid and it did seem that Pags teams were weak mentally and physically. This gives them a barometer of sorts to see who is/not grasping the details. The ones not up to the mental challenge might get passed by. A game of inches takes the finest of details to succeed. Shakin things up.

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20 minutes ago, Mr.NotSoCreative said:

I really like this idea. These dudes are getting paid and it did seem that Pags teams were weak mentally and physically. This gives them a barometer of sorts to see who is/not grasping the details. The ones not up to the mental challenge might get passed by. A game of inches takes the finest of details to succeed. Shakin things up.

So was Pagano's team weak mentally when they went three 11-5 seasons or when the talent level went to hell after Grigsons bad drafts and bust free agents?

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15 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

So was Pagano's team weak mentally when they went three 11-5 seasons or when the talent level went to hell after Grigsons bad drafts and bust free agents?

Pagano's team has always been weak mentally especially  when playing ths patriots.  We would  be with in one score of the patriots and then the team would make mental errors like false starts or holding and then they'd stop ys and blow us out the water

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16 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

So was Pagano's team weak mentally when they went three 11-5 seasons or when the talent level went to hell after Grigsons bad drafts and bust free agents?

Oh you are right with the first 3 years, they were a solid team and made strides each season. But last 3 or 4 they seemed unprepared and disconnected too often, talent deficient or not, they should be more cerebral. Even during the 11-5 seasons you mentioned they were playing from behind most games. Does that ooze mental toughness to you? To me thats relying on your star to pull you through, not a team being mentally and physically ready to play.

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5 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Pagano's team has always been weak mentally especially  when playing ths patriots.  We would  be with in one score of the patriots and then the team would make mental errors like false starts or holding and then they'd stop ys and blow us out the water

So all the teams the Patriots played during that time were all mentally weak?  Maybe the Patriots just had more talent?

 

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1 minute ago, crazycolt1 said:

So all the teams the Patriots played during that time were all mentally weak?  Maybe the Patriots just had more talent?

 

I think they were better developed. 

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4 minutes ago, Mr.NotSoCreative said:

Oh you are right with the first 3 years, they were a solid team and made strides each season. But last 3 or 4 they seemed unprepared and disconnected too often, talent deficient or not, they should be more cerebral. Even during the 11-5 seasons you mentioned they were playing from behind most games. Does that ooze mental toughness to you? To me thats relying on your star to pull you through, not a team being mentally and physically ready to play.

Just lay it all on Pagano. That's the answers. Sorry you don't want to look at the bigger picture.

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Just now, crazycolt1 said:

Just lay it all on Pagano. That's the answers. Sorry you don't want to look at the bigger picture.

Im sorry but I dont think I follow. Wasnt Pagano in charge of having his team coached, prepared, execute, study, function as a whole, etc? Not all on him, his OC was terrible, which is on him also. But original post is about the current OC. Which I like what he is doing. Will it translate into more success? Dont know, but I think its worth a shot.

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8 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Just lay it all on Pagano. That's the answers. Sorry you don't want to look at the bigger picture.

Go pick a fight with someone else ol man, I've got better tbings to do.

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1 minute ago, Mr.NotSoCreative said:

Im sorry but I dont think I follow. Wasnt Pagano in charge of having his team coached, prepared, execute, study, function as a whole, etc? Not all on him, his OC was terrible, which is on him also. But original post is about the current OC. Which I like what he is doing. Will it translate into more success? Dont know, but I think its worth a shot.

No matter how good or bad a coach is it take the right talented players to make a team work. For 4 years Pagano's team was slowly losing the talent to get wins and those talented players were never replaced. A coach can't make adjustments or prepare for games when the talent is not there. Pagano was forced into keeping the most talented players on the field in order for any chance at getting wins. For Gods sake he used 5 QBs in one season and still managed to get 8 wins. That was more than likely his best season he coached as the head coach of the Colts. Even after the losses not one time did the players quit on him. Sorry you cant see the bigger picture.

Pagano is gone now but why does it always come down to beating a dead horse?

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6 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

No matter how good or bad a coach is it take the right talented players to make a team work. For 4 years Pagano's team was slowly losing the talent to get wins and those talented players were never replaced. A coach can't make adjustments or prepare for games when the talent is not there. Pagano was forced into keeping the most talented players on the field in order for any chance at getting wins. For Gods sake he used 5 QBs in one season and still managed to get 8 wins. That was more than likely his best season he coached as the head coach of the Colts. Even after the losses not one time did the players quit on him. Sorry you cant see the bigger picture.

Pagano is gone now but why does it always come down to beating a dead horse?

I barely made a comparison, you blew it up. I happened to like him, but Im sure many would agree that it was time for a change, hence me supporting the changes and tactics being implemented by Reich and Co. mentioned in OP.

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