Who Is Going To Have A Tougher Time?

[Jason_]

You really think Steve Young went out there thinking oh man I have to be Joe Montana? If he did he was pretty bad at it becuase he played nothing like Montana he played like Steve Young. That's the point I am getting at. Andrew Luck has to be Andrew Luck not worry about trying to replace Peyton Manning and be him because he's not going to be. Luck is a different player from Manning. Without Peyton Manning this is going to be a very different team than the one Peyton had as well so who knows Luck might not need to be Peyton Manning in order for us to win games. Luck just needs to worry about going out there and being the best player he can be. That's what I think he's going to do and that's what most great ones do.

No. I do believe however that Steve Young felt like he was in Montana's shadow until he won a SB himself. I've seen the replay enough times of him asking his teammates to take the monkey off his back to believe that to be true. I agree that Luck will go out and be the best QB that Luck can be. However, I disagree with your assertion that Luck won't be impacted by replacing Manning. Steve Young was very much impacted by replacing Montana and he has discussed this on more than one occasion. That is the point I was trying to make.

[Jules]

I think Young had it the toughest replacing a guy who won 4 SBs.

Lets face it, it's tough to match what Montana did in the postseason over his career in SF.

[Jason_]

Right listen to Aaron Rodgers answer a question when he's asked to compare himself to Favre. It's a different situation for a different player. It's not going to be the same and players know that. Most great ones understand they have to be themselves and can't worry about trying to be the player that was there before them because if they try to be that player they will fail because it's not who they are.

I think Luck will respect what Peyton did before him but I really doubt he's going to be looking to see if he did better against teams than Manning did. He's going to be more worried about making himself the best player he can be.

Honestly I think that Rodgers was very fortunate in that regard. Favre brought so much drama to himself and the team in his last years with Green Bay with all the will he/won't he retire that I think a good majority of Packer fans got to the point they wanted him gone. Had Favre handled the situation like an actual professional then Rodgers likely would have felt more "in Favre's shadow" than he actually did.

[subvet]

Right listen to Aaron Rodgers answer a question when he's asked to compare himself to Favre. It's a different situation for a different player. It's not going to be the same and players know that. Most great ones understand they have to be themselves and can't worry about trying to be the player that was there before them because if they try to be that player they will fail because it's not who they are.

I think Luck will respect what Peyton did before him but I really doubt he's going to be looking to see if he did better against teams than Manning did. He's going to be more worried about making himself the best player he can be.

Which is pretty much what I meant and maybe wasn't clear in stating it. Individual performance isn't as important if you win as a team.

[Malakai432]

You really think Steve Young went out there thinking oh man I have to be Joe Montana? If he did he was pretty bad at it becuase he played nothing like Montana he played like Steve Young. That's the point I am getting at. Andrew Luck has to be Andrew Luck not worry about trying to replace Peyton Manning and be him because he's not going to be. Luck is a different player from Manning. Without Peyton Manning this is going to be a very different team than the one Peyton had as well so who knows Luck might not need to be Peyton Manning in order for us to win games. Luck just needs to worry about going out there and being the best player he can be. That's what I think he's going to do and that's what most great ones do.

Very good point, I don't even know where the Luck being the next Peyton comparisons are even coming from. I haven't heard from any media source that Luck is expected to be Peyton. Yes attributes might be compared, but I haven't heard anyone on national TV say, "OHHHHHHH WOW, boy this Andrew Luck is guaranteed to be the next Peyton Manning." As you said Luck is Luck, any comparisons are based on attributes Luck might have similar to other greats, heck maybe those will even change once he adapts to the NFL. I don't know where people are getting these crazy accusations that Luck is the next Manning. I'll go ahead and make one up right now, Luck will be the next Tim Tebow who can actually pass, .

To each his/her own though, opinions must be respected with an iron fist!! 

[Jules]

Very good point, I don't even know where the Luck being the next Peyton comparisons are even coming from. I haven't heard from any media source that Luck is expected to be Peyton. Yes attributes might be compared, but I haven't heard anyone on national TV say, "OHHHHHHH WOW, boy this Andrew Luck is guaranteed to be the next Peyton Manning." As you said Luck is Luck, any comparisons are based on attributes Luck might have similar to other greats, heck maybe those will even change once he adapts to the NFL. I don't know where people are getting these crazy accusations that Luck is the next Manning. I'll go ahead and make one up right now, Luck will be the next Tim Tebow who can actually pass, .

I think I would go for that, actually.

[Malakai432]

^

[GoColts8818]

No. I do believe however that Steve Young felt like he was in Montana's shadow until he won a SB himself. I've seen the replay enough times of him asking his teammates to take the monkey off his back to believe that to be true. I agree that Luck will go out and be the best QB that Luck can be. However, I disagree with your assertion that Luck won't be impacted by replacing Manning. Steve Young was very much impacted by replacing Montana and he has discussed this on more than one occasion. That is the point I was trying to make.

There is a difference between feeling like you are in someone's shadow and feeling like you have to be him to be a great player. Of course the fans are going to compare Luck to Manning it's natural. I just don't think it's going to impact how Luck goes about his business. He's going to try to be the best QB he can be regardless if the QB before him was Peyton Manning or Billy Bob Jenkins and I really don't see Andrew Luck comparing himself to how Peyton Manning did against those teams after games. It was always be there but I don't think it's going to major impact on Luck. I don't see him worrying that much about it. If he does then he's focusing on trying to be Manning and surpass him and not being who he is and that tends to not work out well for proathletes.

[GoColts8818]

Honestly I think that Rodgers was very fortunate in that regard. Favre brought so much drama to himself and the team in his last years with Green Bay with all the will he/won't he retire that I think a good majority of Packer fans got to the point they wanted him gone. Had Favre handled the situation like an actual professional then Rodgers likely would have felt more "in Favre's shadow" than he actually did.

I have family and friends who are Packers fans and the second year where Rodgers and Packers got into the playoffs as a wildcard team and lost and Favre had an MVP type season and had the Vikings in the NFC Title game was very hard for Packers fans to stomach and some did openly question if they made the wrong call. However, I really don't think it impacted Rodgers. He rebounded by winning a Super Bowl not by going home and going man Favre was a game away from the Super Bowl and I couldn't win a playoff game.

[Jason_]

There is a difference between feeling like you are in someone's shadow and feeling like you have to be him to be a great player. Of course the fans are going to compare Luck to Manning it's natural. I just don't think it's going to impact how Luck goes about his business. He's going to try to be the best QB he can be regardless if the QB before him was Peyton Manning or Billy Bob Jenkins and I really don't see Andrew Luck comparing himself to how Peyton Manning did against those teams after games. It was always be there but I don't think it's going to major impact on Luck. I don't see him worrying that much about it. If he does then he's focusing on trying to be Manning and surpass him and not being who he is and that tends to not work out well for proathletes.

Neither of us ever said that Luck would go out and try to be Manning. You said Luck wouldn't be impacted by being the next Colts QB and I disagreed because I do think there will be an emotional or psychological impact on Luck in much the same way there was with Young following Montana. I do think there will be a period where he feels like he's in Peyton's shadow and that's the impact I think it will have on him. I don't think it will affect his style of play, his preparation or anything like that but that impact will still be there all the same.

[Jason_]

I have family and friends who are Packers fans and the second year where Rodgers and Packers got into the playoffs as a wildcard team and lost and Favre had an MVP type season and had the Vikings in the NFC Title game was very hard for Packers fans to stomach and some did openly question if they made the wrong call. However, I really don't think it impacted Rodgers. He rebounded by winning a Super Bowl not by going home and going man Favre was a game away from the Super Bowl and I couldn't win a playoff game.

Yes he did...just like Young did and just like Luck very well could. In the mean time however, I do think there will be that feeling of being in Manning's shadow and that will, imo, have a psychological impact on Luck that he wouldn't have if he were drafted instead by, for example, Cleveland. That's all the point I was trying to make. lol

[GoColts8818]

Neither of us ever said that Luck would go out and try to be Manning. You said Luck wouldn't be impacted by being the next Colts QB and I disagreed because I do think there will be an emotional or psychological impact on Luck in much the same way there was with Young following Montana. I do think there will be a period where he feels like he's in Peyton's shadow and that's the impact I think it will have on him. I don't think it will affect his style of play, his preparation or anything like that but that impact will still be there all the same.

and I don't think he will be. Frankly reading thew this i think we mostly agree and spliting hairs. I've agreed that shadow is going to be there but I don't think it's going to bother Luck or impact what Luck is going to do. He's going to be himself and play like himself. I really don't think Luck is going to be too worried about trying to replace Peyton Manning. I think he's going to be focused on being the best player he can be. I am sure even Steve Young would tell you that. I've seen in interviews since then that Young has said he really wished he hadn't done the whole monkey on his back thing at the Super Bowl and that had more to do with just being tired of being asked questions about Montana than anything else. I really don't think it bothered Young other than just being tired of talking about it. If you count that as impacting him that's where I think we are splitting hairs. I don't really see that as impacting a QB though. I see that as just being tired of talking about something. It was pretty clear Eli was tired of talking about Peyton during the Super Bowl week but I think it had zero impact on how he played as another example of that. I see being impacted as worrying about something and I don't think Steve Young ever really worried about if he was as good as Montana or not. I think Young just had faith in his talents. I think Luck is going to be the same way. He knows the questions about Manning are going to come and people are going to compare him to Manning but I doubt Luck is going to lose much sleep over it.

[GoColts8818]

Yes he did...just like Young did and just like Luck very well could. In the mean time however, I do think there will be that feeling of being in Manning's shadow and that will, imo, have a psychological impact on Luck that he wouldn't have if he were drafted instead by, for example, Cleveland. That's all the point I was trying to make. lol

and I don't think it really has a psychological impact on a player like that because that aren't trying to be the player they are being compared too. Eli Manning is maybe the greatest example of this. His whole life he's been compared to his brother yet do you really think it's impacted Eli at all? I don't think so. Eli was the best player he could be and I don't think he worried about being compared to Peyton beucase he understood he wasn't Peyton Manning. Players tend to not look at things like that. They focus on things they can control which is themsevles.

[Jason_]

and I don't think it really has a psychological impact on a player like that because that aren't trying to be the player they are being compared too. Eli Manning is maybe the greatest example of this. His whole life he's been compared to his brother yet do you really think it's impacted Eli at all? I don't think so. Eli was the best player he could be and I don't think he worried about being compared to Peyton beucase he understood he wasn't Peyton Manning. Players tend to not look at things like that. They focus on things they can control which is themsevles.

Well essentially we are just splitting hairs. However I do disagree with you in that I do think that being in someone else's shadow has a psychological impact on a person. I never said they would lose sleep over it, try to be that person or anything like that. However, even simply by being constantly asked questions about being compared to another person does take its toll on someone. What separates the great ones like Eli, Young, Rodgers etc from the average joes is the ability to overcome that and still be the best player/person they can be and thereby stepping out of the shadow of the other person. So again, I don't think it will affect Luck in the sense that he'll lose sleep or alter his preparation or anything like that. However the comparisons will be there and there will be pressure on him until he takes the team to the playoffs and then eventually a SB and in that regard, yes I do believe it will have an impact on him. Or, perhaps it would be better to say it would have an effect on him rather than an impact. Perhaps impact is simply too strong a word... but it was your word.

[GoColts8818]

Well essentially we are just splitting hairs. However I do disagree with you in that I do think that being in someone else's shadow has a psychological impact on a person. I never said they would lose sleep over it, try to be that person or anything like that. However, even simply by being constantly asked questions about being compared to another person does take its toll on someone. What separates the great ones from the average joes is the ability to overcome that and still be the best player/person they can be and thereby stepping out of the shadow of the other person. So again, I don't think it will affect Luck in the sense that he'll lose sleep or alter his preparation or anything like that. However the comparisons will be there until he takes the team to a SB and in that regard, yes I do believe it will have an impact on him. Or, perhaps it would be better to say it would have an effect on him rather than an impact. Perhaps impact is simply too strong a word but it was your word.

I think the shadow thing is just sorta there. I don't really think it impacts QBs or other players for that matter. I think it impacts things like fans and the media a whole lot more. They are the ones who love to compare players to people who were there before them. I think players just kinda know it's there and that's where it ends. They aren't worried about it. So if they aren't worried about it and doesn't have an effect on what they are doing to me that means it doesn't really have an impact on them. Sure they might get tired of talking about it but I don't see that as an impact on something. It might make it a little sweeter when they do it but all and all I would say the impact it has on someone would minimal at best.

[Jason_]

I think the shadow thing is just sorta there. I don't really think it impacts QBs or other players for that matter. I think it impacts things like fans and the media a whole lot more. They are the ones who love to compare players to people who were there before them. I think players just kinda know it's there and that's where it ends. They aren't worried about it. So if they aren't worried about it and doesn't have an effect on what they are doing to me that means it doesn't really have an impact on them. Sure they might get tired of talking about it but I don't see that as an impact on something. It might make it a little sweeter when they do it but all and all I would say the impact it has on someone would minimal at best.

lol..that's the point. Initially you said it would have no impact but now you're ascribing degrees of impact.

[GoColts8818]

lol..that's the point. Initially you said it would have no impact but now you're ascribing degrees of impact.

because I don't really see that as an impact...I see something that's an impact as something you worry about and think about. I don't think this fits that at all. That's why I said minimal impact at best. If that's how you feel we pretty much agree and there is no point to keep going on about this other than to keep spliting hairs which is pointless. That's like me going the sky is blue and you going no the sky is sky blue...it's aruging for the sake of aruging or aruging to go look at me I am more right than you. If you agree with me that at most it's going to have minimal impact this is kinda pointless.

[Jason_]

because I don't really see that as an impact...I see something that's an impact as something you worry about and think about. I don't think this fits that at all. That's why I said minimal impact at best. If that's how you feel we pretty much agree and there is no point to keep going on about this other than to keep spliting hairs which is pointless. That's like me going the sky is blue and you going no the sky is sky blue...it's aruging for the sake of aruging or aruging to go look at me I am more right than you. If you agree with me that at most it's going to have minimal impact this is kinda pointless.

Agreed. We basically have different interpretations of "impact" in this regard. IMO, if it's there at all then it has an impact. I think there will be pressure on him in being Peyton's successor so in that regard, just from there being a pressure on him then it will have an impact. Not to the point of affecting his game or his degree of preparation...he'd do those things to his best potential regardless.

ps. the sky is Azure

[Fx Stryker]

Luck gets one bad year. If he is supposedly the better player coming out of college then it shouldn't take him anymore time.

[04DarkShadowGT]

I think some Manning fans will be slow to embrace Luck, especially if the team struggles next year (which they almost certainly will).

There is no denying what Manning has meant to this franchise, but I think half the Colts fans arent even Colt fans, they are Manning fans and fans of the team because they won.

If Luck does well, they will all come back. Just will take time.

[Thewholefnshow28]

It is going to be Peyton Manning fans coming to grips with him no longer on the team and making the decision to stay on board or to jump ship.

I think Irsay has put Luck in between a rock and a hard place with his handeling of this whole thing. Anytime you go from a HOF QB to his replacement there are going to be growing issues with the fans. They are so use to one way and to have another guy come in just throws everything off.

Irsay has created a public perception, as wrong as it could be, that he is pushing Manning out for Luck.

I just hope Colts fans realize that we have a rookie QB and there will be a lot of ugly throws, bad decisions, and general bad play. At the same time though there will be times where we just sit back and go wow.

If the fans do not come to terms with that and open their arms to Luck then his tenure here is doomed.

[Steve Waugh]

_{Rookie year - any record is acceptable.}

_{Second year - The way he is touted as the pro-NFL ready, next Elway blah blah - anything less than 12 wins isnt acceptable.}

[jskinnz]

Did David Carr learn and grow by getting beat down every week? Would he have grown more with a guy like Peyton in his locker room?

I don't know how that is relevant. You reference David Carr and I can give you Andy Dalton and Cam Newton among others, including Manning. The point is each circumstance is unique and because Carr was never any good, possibly due to the constant beating he took, does not mean that playing Luck right away is the wrong step to take. What is very likely the wrong step to take is the mountain of salary cap space that would be allocated to having both Luck and Peyton on the roster is not overly-intelligent.

[jskinnz]

_{Rookie year - any record is acceptable.}

_{Second year - The way he is touted as the pro-NFL ready, next Elway blah blah - anything less than 12 wins isnt acceptable.}

Seriously? So if Luck went 10-6 in his second season as starter and took his team to the playoffs, that would be unacceptable to you?

Tough crowd.

[04DarkShadowGT]

Seriously? So if Luck went 10-6 in his second season as starter and took his team to the playoffs, that would be unacceptable to you?

Tough crowd.

Yeah no joke, wow. I have a feeling that since Houston is finally coming around it will be tougher to win this division going forward. That is a loaded ball club when everyone is healthy, heck they won 10 games and a playoff game on their 3rd QB, minus best pass rusher, minus best WR, and minus best RB for parts of the season. Not too shabby.

I would be flipping out happy if the Colts were 10-6 in the 2013/2014 season.

[KaylaD]

Incase anyone does not know I am a huge Peyton fan. I am a Colts fan first though. I do not want to lose Peyton. That being said I understand why we will draft Luck. I understand it all I just don't like it. I think people may expect too much for the 1st year. I think the fans that are really only Peyton fans will run and go be "fans" of whoever else is really good now. I know there will be a transition period with a new qb and with the defense changing. The coaching staff is all new. People need to realize that stuff doesn't all come together overnight. I may not like losing Peyton but I agree with all the other things being done. I am a colts fan first. I will suppot my team no matter what, while still wearing my #18 jersey. No matter where Peyton goes, he is still a Colt forever. I think in 2-3 years things should be getting good. If they are not then I think we will all have opinions on that,

[ColtsBlueFL]

Agreed. We basically have different interpretations of "impact" in this regard. IMO, if it's there at all then it has an impact. I think there will be pressure on him in being Peyton's successor so in that regard, just from there being a pressure on him then it will have an impact. Not to the point of affecting his game or his degree of preparation...he'd do those things to his best potential regardless. ps. the sky is Azure

Everyone has something that has impact... even Peyton, if he returns (especially in Indy) will have some. If he returns to Indy, his losing record in the playoffs will have impact as will have limited time and would need victories now, things which have largely eluded him even as a younger man during his career. I'm sure this isn't lost on Peyton, but he will also preparer snd go about his business to the best of his abilities too. But If he doesn't reverse that and win PO games, and somewhere in there a SB, in short order, some fans will feel the future was compromised and set in order for a pot luck shot at a title with an aging HOF'er QB with a thinned out squad which wasn't very good (especially the defense) before the loss of some vets.

It's a tough call, and why fans are divided.

[betheafan41]

Luck will be fine

[Steve Waugh]

Seriously? So if Luck went 10-6 in his second season as starter and took his team to the playoffs, that would be unacceptable to you?

Tough crowd.

Point was winning

[Jaric]

Peyton Manning wasn't replacing a legend though.

How dare you speak ill of Jim Harbaugh!!!

No but seriously, a huge part of success is learning from failures. I'm personally ready to ride the storm out should Luck be given the oars to the boat, I just hope the rest of the fan base has their life preservers ready and doesn't jump ship at the first sign of adversity.

[KaylaD]

Any fan that does jump ship is not really a fan then. A true fan sticks by there team and roots them on no matter what.

[Thewholefnshow28]

Seriously? So if Luck went 10-6 in his second season as starter and took his team to the playoffs, that would be unacceptable to you? Tough crowd.

The worst thing for Luck is to follow in Peyton's footsteps. Fans have got so use to winning 11-12 games just by Peyton's talent and sheer determination to carry this team. To have a rookie come in and post say 8-8 season will just seem like an utter disaster. Heck the fact Manning went 13-3 his second season will make fans expect to much from Luck.

Yes, he has the skill sets and the head on the shoulders to be a great QB, but it might still take some time. He could explode on the scene like Cam did this season or he might take a couple years before he explodes.

If a fan says anything less then 12 wins is unacceptable is living in a fairytale. If this team can go 8-8 his second year I will be ecstatic. This team needs a major overhaul given how many years our front office just leaned on Manning to carry it.

[BleedingBlue]

If Manning is cut to make room for Andrew Luck then Andrew will have the most amount of pressure on him than any other rookie quarterback in the history of the NFL.

That falls on Andrews shoulders, not the fans.

Colts fans will welcome Andrew Luck with open arms.

But if by year 3 we're not in the playoffs and a PM led team is...it will get ugly fast.

[jskinnz]

Point was winning

Not sure I understand your point. You said in year 2, anything less than 12 wins is unacceptable.

So 10-6 and in the playoffs is unacceptable?