Nyhiem Hines our Dion Lewis

[Mitch Connors]

 

.14 seconds different is almost exactly 1 yard over 40 yards. Notice the space difference between Mariota and Watson at .14 seconds difference.

[A8bil]

33 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

He didn’t fall. He was always overrated. Think about it. You’re the fastest player on the field. You get a giant hole opened up for you and now every carry is 20+ yards. It’s easy to rack up 2,000 yards like that. His issue was that he wasn’t a bell cow back who could get the tough yards. If there wasn’t a huge hole for him to get through, he was pretty useless. Once teams figured this out, he was easier to stop. Let’s hope Hines is even better than CJ2K as a pure runner.

Exactly....CJ2k didn't lose anything...teams just adjusted to his game and took away the big play.  Once that happened, he became pedestrian. By 2011, when most teams had figured him out, he had 7 games where he rushed for less than 3 ypc.  He had the occasional break out game but for the most part he was ineffective.  The Colts perhaps more than any other team had his number.  He had terrible games against the Colts.

[jet1968]

17 hours ago, Luck 4 president said:

That’s like 1.33 claps

I'm not sure but some people can probably clap faster the others. Also I cant clap near as fast now that I'm 50 as I could when I was 22.   

Just kidding!!

[DaColts85]

1 hour ago, Defjamz26 said:

He didn’t fall. He was always overrated. Think about it. You’re the fastest player on the field. You get a giant hole opened up for you and now every carry is 20+ yards. It’s easy to rack up 2,000 yards like that. His issue was that he wasn’t a bell cow back who could get the tough yards. If there wasn’t a huge hole for him to get through, he was pretty useless. Once teams figured this out, he was easier to stop. Let’s hope Hines is even better than CJ2K as a pure runner.

No way you believe this, right?  2,000 yards is easy to do huh?  That must be why only 7 have ever done it.  Say what you want about CJ but getting 2k in a season is solid no matter what.  Plus when he was still younger and had moves he had 6 straight seasons of over 1,000 yards. Had nearly 1,400 yards after that "easy" 2,000 as well.  So apparently to your logic a lot of D coordinators just are terrible at their job for not shutting the easy plays down huh?  I am not some huge fan of CJ but come on...these comments?

[DaColts85]

1 hour ago, A8bil said:

Exactly....CJ2k didn't lose anything...teams just adjusted to his game and took away the big play.  Once that happened, he became pedestrian. By 2011, when most teams had figured him out, he had 7 games where he rushed for less than 3 ypc.  He had the occasional break out game but for the most part he was ineffective.  The Colts perhaps more than any other team had his number.  He had terrible games against the Colts.

They adjusted there game to stop him, but yet apparently it took them 6 years to figure this out?  Come on seriously?

He had solid seasons no matter what randomness you want to contort to that.  His bad years started when  he left the Titans.  When you get older sometimes your production goes down as well.

[WoolMagnet]

21 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Ok....

 

I'm sorry....   I asked a simple straight forward question...   have you watched the NFL Network during the combine?  Because if you had ever seen their comparison videos you understand how big the difference is between 4.24 and 4.38.

 

The fact that you didn't answer this and then turned around to offer some silly video that is unrelated to what we're talking about tells me what I need to know.

 

 You don't understand this and you don't want to know about this.  That's fine.   Your choice.

 

But you're right....  we should drop this topic...    thanks,  I appreciate this.

 

 

I think you both are right.

.14 seconds over 40 yards really isnt a big deal for rb comparison.  It is, for a track athlete (like at combine) running a straight line in shorts and track shoes.  But on the field, making cuts in full pads, i dont see so much of a difference. Heck, the "slower" guy may be the faster. I'd look more at the 10 and 20 yard time. The overall "top" speed is minimal imo at .14 in real game situation.  Quickness at hitting holes, re-direction, and stop/start quickness is what i am interested in seeing.

i think the whole combine gets a little too wrapped up in 40 times.  Its nice to ooh and ahh over, but i'm not sure how many positions on the field it us really that important to.  "Quickness" or "suddenness" are more important to me. Im not trying to discount raw speed, but running a fast track-style 40 will not make you a better football player, as such.

[LockeDown]

Hines returned punts and kicks so he has to have vision and elusiveness. He was a receiver so he has hands. He was a starting RB so he can run in an offense. He can do many things and they plan to give him the ball in space so he can use all of his gifts. Right?  In that sense he is more like Sproles and not Lewis but he is built like Lewis.  I think he is as good as our offensive strategy and execution.

[Peterk2011]

On 5/9/2018 at 5:00 PM, indyagent17 said:

you really have to laugh that .14 seconds is MUCH faster

 

It is. It might mean the difference between you get open and no one catches you or you will be chased back by faster corners (who use run in the 30-s range too). Anyway, Hynes himself admitted, that he was very dissappointed by his time, because he hasn't run such "slow" for years, His "norm" is somewhere in the middle 20-s.

 

I think he is even more versatile than Dion Lewis or Sproles, because he was a slot receiver for most of his carreer, and only change to RB recently. So if not as RB, he still might end up being our own "mini torpedo" in the slot like Welker/Edelman was/is. 

[indyagent17]

1 hour ago, Peterk2011 said:

 

It is. It might mean the difference between you get open and no one catches you or you will be chased back by faster corners (who use run in the 30-s range too). Anyway, Hynes himself admitted, that he was very dissappointed by his time, because he hasn't run such "slow" for years, His "norm" is somewhere in the middle 20-s.

 

I think he is even more versatile than Dion Lewis or Sproles, because he was a slot receiver for most of his carreer, and only change to RB recently. So if not as RB, he still might end up being our own "mini torpedo" in the slot like Welker/Edelman was/is. 

He has quickness too and he elusive. Speed is not everything just ask TJ Green

[loudnproudcolt]

The guy has speed in the 4.35 area, and I think we will use him in the slot quite a bit also. So in fact in addition to RB, you can consider him one of our slot receivers. I loved the pick, and was reading yesterday Dallas was really wanting him, and were going to draft him in the same round had we not picked him. They were bummed about us taking him. Dallas really needs play makers, and after watching him at the combine, and NC St. this kid while not being big, so breaking tackles is not his forte, but making people miss, and he can be another receiver/RB who can use that giant open middle of the field to make some large plays, in addition to just coming out of the backfield!

[bananabucket]

3 hours ago, DaColts85 said:

No way you believe this, right?  2,000 yards is easy to do huh?  That must be why only 7 have ever done it.  Say what you want about CJ but getting 2k in a season is solid no matter what.  Plus when he was still younger and had moves he had 6 straight seasons of over 1,000 yards. Had nearly 1,400 yards after that "easy" 2,000 as well.  So apparently to your logic a lot of D coordinators just are terrible at their job for not shutting the easy plays down huh?  I am not some huge fan of CJ but come on...these comments?

 

His point was that the bulk of his yardage came on huge plays, which were a product if his world class speed.  That is absolutely true.  Johnson would have so many runs where he got nothing, then would break an 80 yarder and make his statline look awesome.  It happened time and time again. 

[DaColts85]

34 minutes ago, bananabucket said:

 

His point was that the bulk of his yardage came on huge plays, which were a product if his world class speed.  That is absolutely true.  Johnson would have so many runs where he got nothing, then would break an 80 yarder and make his statline look awesome.  It happened time and time again. 

Why would you try and discredit 2k yards in a year?  I don't care if every run was 99 yards. You try and say all he did was get large chunks before he was figured out but yet he was productive for 6 years.

[Defjamz26]

44 minutes ago, DaColts85 said:

Why would you try and discredit 2k yards in a year?  I don't care if every run was 99 yards. You try and say all he did was get large chunks before he was figured out but yet he was productive for 6 years.

Because it’s misleading as to how skilled of a runner he was. He was really fast and could break off big runs, but if he wasn’t hitting home runs, he was pedestrian. It made the stats misleading. Adrian Peterson’s 2K was much more impressive. Like the other poster said, he’d average 3 YPC a game and then break off a 70 yard run. You do that twice a game and it looks amazing on paper.

[Stephen]

On 5/9/2018 at 11:00 AM, indyagent17 said:

you really have to laugh that .14 seconds is MUCH faster

It is especially in a sprint. Go watch the bolt versus tyson gay race when bolt ran 9.58 and tyson had 9.71. A .13 difference

[A8bil]

6 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

Because it’s misleading as to how skilled of a runner he was. He was really fast and could break off big runs, but if he wasn’t hitting home runs, he was pedestrian. It made the stats misleading. Adrian Peterson’s 2K was much more impressive. Like the other poster said, he’d average 3 YPC a game and then break off a 70 yard run. You do that twice a game and it looks amazing on paper.

DaColts isn't getting it.  CJ2k was not a great running back, but had unusual speed and that resulted in a lot of big runs in the year that he went for 2k.  Teams adjusted for it, and pretty quickly he was rendered meaningless.  He became the RB equivalent of Ted Ginn.  A few big plays per year but otherwise unremarkable.  When I said less than 3 YPC...it was more like 2.3 ypc or less.  He was terrible in a lot of games.  Basically, defenses adjusted to CJ2k and he had nothing more to use to beat defenses.

[NewColtsFan]

5 minutes ago, A8bil said:

DaColts isn't getting it.  CJ2k was not a great running back, but had unusual speed and that resulted in a lot of big runs in the year that he went for 2k.  Teams adjusted for it, and pretty quickly he was rendered meaningless.  He became the RB equivalent of Ted Ginn.  A few big plays per year but otherwise unremarkable.  When I said less than 3 YPC...it was more like 2.3 ypc or less.  He was terrible in a lot of games.  Basically, defenses adjusted to CJ2k and he had nothing more to use to beat defenses.

 

Yeah....   well I'm with @DaColts         I'm not getting it either....

 

Rendered meaningless?    CJ had four more 1,000 yard seasons AFTER his 2k yard season.    So, doesn't seem meaningless to me.     And he got badly overused.     In a two year window, he had 675 carries.   In 32 games.    Do the math,   that's 21 carries a game for two straight years.    Teams don't do that any more.    The Titan burned him out.     And that doesn't include his receptions.

 

You make it seem like anyone can gain 1,000 yards if they're fast enough.    The problem with that argument is most players who are that fast don't want the heavy contact that comes with being a RB.   That's why the super fast athletes are more typically WR's and Corners.   They avoid contact.    Not CJ.   

 

If gaining 2K yards was as easy as those in this thread make it out to be,  we'd have someone doing it every year.   But that doesn't happen --- does it?

 

If you simply want to argue that Adrian Peterson was a better back,  a tougher back,  that his accomplishment were more impressive you'll get no argument from me or anyone else.   But trying to trash Chris Johnson to make some point that his accomplishments weren't that impressive is just silly.     Embarrassingly silly.

 

[Narcosys]

On 5/9/2018 at 5:19 PM, NewColtsFan said:

 

I kniw it may look funny...   but it is much faster...    seriously....   especially over 40 yards....

 

I kid you not......     honestly! 

How many extra yards does that translate into over 40 yards? Does he beat him by three yards, five yards, less, or more?

 

Edit:

Chris Johnson ran 9.434 yds/s(rounded to nearest thousandth)

Hines is 9.132 yds/s

 

Taking Hines yds/s by Johnson's time means Hines would have ran 38.7 yards when Johnson finished.

 

So 1.3 yards, or 3' 11"

[NewColtsFan]

35 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

How many extra yards does that translate into over 40 yards? Does he beat him by three yards, five yards, less, or more?

 

Edit:

Chris Johnson ran 9.434 yds/s(rounded to nearest thousandth)

Hines is 9.132 yds/s

 

Taking Hines yds/s by Johnson's time means Hines would have ran 38.7 yards when Johnson finished.

 

So 1.3 yards, or 3' 11"

 

Yes....   I'd say about 1.3 yards...    4 feet would seem about right....

 

And at that speed,  that's a lot.

 

I'm not trying to diminish Hines' number....     not at all...    I could probably run a 4.35....   for 30 yards in my prime!

 

I'm just pointing out the difference between a great humber --- Hines....    and an amazing number --- CJ's.

 

 

 

 

[Narcosys]

7 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Yes....   I'd say about 1.3 yards...    4 feet would seem about right....

 

And at that speed,  that's a lot.

 

I'm not trying to diminish Hines' number....     not at all...    I could probably run a 4.35....   for 30 yards in my prime!

 

I'm just pointing out the difference between a great humber --- Hines....    and an amazing number --- CJ's.

 

 

 

 

Oh I wasn't siding one way or another, just curious as to the actual distance covered between the two and difference it translates into. More than I thought but not as huge as implied.

[NewColtsFan]

25 minutes ago, Narcosys said:

Oh I wasn't siding one way or another, just curious as to the actual distance covered between the two and difference it translates into. More than I thought but not as huge as implied.

 

I know...    I appreciate that...   I understand that....

 

But that's a reasonable number and I was just accepting it....     Not everyone in this discussion does....

 

[NewEra]

In football when at times it's a gain of inches that's huge. Could be the difference of a hand on a foot to breaking free. 

[DaColts85]

7 hours ago, A8bil said:

DaColts isn't getting it.  CJ2k was not a great running back, but had unusual speed and that resulted in a lot of big runs in the year that he went for 2k.  Teams adjusted for it, and pretty quickly he was rendered meaningless.  He became the RB equivalent of Ted Ginn.  A few big plays per year but otherwise unremarkable.  When I said less than 3 YPC...it was more like 2.3 ypc or less.  He was terrible in a lot of games.  Basically, defenses adjusted to CJ2k and he had nothing more to use to beat defenses.

I will just reply with read @NewColtsFan statement.  Your comment is laughable and that is all I will say.

[DaColts85]

14 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

Because it’s misleading as to how skilled of a runner he was. He was really fast and could break off big runs, but if he wasn’t hitting home runs, he was pedestrian. It made the stats misleading. Adrian Peterson’s 2K was much more impressive. Like the other poster said, he’d average 3 YPC a game and then break off a 70 yard run. You do that twice a game and it looks amazing on paper.

Come on Dej, you are better than this.  You have good comments but this is just a terrible argument.  As said above AP was a better all-around back but having over 2k yards is impressive no matter the name on the back of the jersey.  I couldn't care less if he averaged 2 YPC before breaking out for two 70 yard runs.  Fact is he was able to do that consistently for a whole year.  Not to mention the other 5 years he had over 1,000 yards.  Just a speed back but yet you keep claiming these D Coordinators "figured him out" yet 6 straight seasons he was putting up numbers.  Kind of crazy how it takes 6 years to "figure him out" right?

[rockywoj]

On 5/9/2018 at 11:40 AM, Fisticuffs111 said:

 

In this instance sure, especially since this was apparently Hines worst 40 time. But in general I think a .14 difference is big for some positions. A WR would be considered kinda slow if he ran a 4.62 whereas a 4.48 forty would be solid.

And yet, Jerry Rice ran the 40 in what, 4.59 according to Bill Walsh?

 

Speed is important but there is a HUGE difference between track 40 time and functional football speed.  I agree with the notion that a .14 track time in the 40 is functionally irrelevant as it relates to playing football.  Three step quickness and elusiveness are WAY more important.  As for that track speed, the speed is clearly there for Hines, despite being a blink of the eye slower than the fastest timed track time speed.

 

The degree of splitting hairs IS often times laughable.  Point is, the dude Hines is FAST and if that speed translates to the football field, and if he is utilized effectively, then what a weapon he might be!

[Fisticuffs111]

1 hour ago, rockywoj said:

And yet, Jerry Rice ran the 40 in what, 4.59 according to Bill Walsh?

 

Speed is important but there is a HUGE difference between track 40 time and functional football speed.  I agree with the notion that a .14 track time in the 40 is functionally irrelevant as it relates to playing football.  Three step quickness and elusiveness are WAY more important.  As for that track speed, the speed is clearly there for Hines, despite being a blink of the eye slower than the fastest timed track time speed.

 

The degree of splitting hairs IS often times laughable.  Point is, the dude Hines is FAST and if that speed translates to the football field, and if he is utilized effectively, then what a weapon he might be!

 

Yeah I agree with lost of that. As for Hines, he’s definitely fast. But I thought it was interesting that he actually didn’t test exceptionally well at the 3 cone or the shuffle. Still good times, but not best at the combine numbers like his 40. Obviously his tape shows enough, just thought his times were interesting.

[A8bil]

11 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Yeah....   well I'm with @DaColts         I'm not getting it either....

 

Rendered meaningless?    CJ had four more 1,000 yard seasons AFTER his 2k yard season.    So, doesn't seem meaningless to me.     And he got badly overused.     In a two year window, he had 675 carries.   In 32 games.    Do the math,   that's 21 carries a game for two straight years.    Teams don't do that any more.    The Titan burned him out.     And that doesn't include his receptions.

 

You make it seem like anyone can gain 1,000 yards if they're fast enough.    The problem with that argument is most players who are that fast don't want the heavy contact that comes with being a RB.   That's why the super fast athletes are more typically WR's and Corners.   They avoid contact.    Not CJ.   

 

If gaining 2K yards was as easy as those in this thread make it out to be,  we'd have someone doing it every year.   But that doesn't happen --- does it?

 

If you simply want to argue that Adrian Peterson was a better back,  a tougher back,  that his accomplishment were more impressive you'll get no argument from me or anyone else.   But trying to trash Chris Johnson to make some point that his accomplishments weren't that impressive is just silly.     Embarrassingly silly.

 

Really?  Silly?  Perhaps think a bit before denigrating others points.  

 

CJ's 2K yards in 2009 was a great accomplishment, but if a RB cant get even close to repeating a 2k season, it is an anomaly, and for CJ that was the case.  

 

In CJ's 2k year, defenses had not recognized or adjusted for his speed.  He had an unreal 22 carries that went for more than 20 yards, and 7 that went for more than 40 yards.  That was nearly double of AP in both categories, who himself was pretty fast and near the top of the league in both categories.  By 2010, CJ was not even the league leader in either category. By 2011, he had only 1 carry over 40 yards.  Once defenses took away the big homerun threat from CJ, his lacks of RB skills became very apparent.

 

I don't buy that it was a result of so many carries.  There were lots of backs getting a similar number of carries who didn't fall of the table in production.  Do you have any doubt that in 2011-2013 CJ was still the fastest back in the league?  Maybe Charles, Best and Spiller had similar speed, but CJ was still the fastest.  He simply was not seeing the wide open holes he saw in 2009 because defenses had adjusted to him, and CJ did not have the skills to either move the chains or create long runs for himself (like McCoy does).  His game became a bunch of games where he avg. 2-3 ypc and an occasional game where he had a 20-30 yard run.  

 

Believing that even a 4.3 40 guy can replicate what CJ did in 2009 is a fool's game.  The league learned and now understands the importance of speed and how to defend it.  Defenses are much faster now...the days of the plodding hole stuffing MLB are gone.  Side line to side line speed is perhaps the most important criteria teams are looking for when drafting LBs now.  Being "fast" is just not enough anymore.  A RB needs vision, elusiveness and strength to break arm tackles.  I don't see any of these things in Hines.

 

 

[Bshultz]

 

 

[Valpo2004]

On 5/10/2018 at 11:03 AM, Defjamz26 said:

He didn’t fall. He was always overrated. Think about it. You’re the fastest player on the field. You get a giant hole opened up for you and now every carry is 20+ yards. It’s easy to rack up 2,000 yards like that. His issue was that he wasn’t a bell cow back who could get the tough yards. If there wasn’t a huge hole for him to get through, he was pretty useless. Once teams figured this out, he was easier to stop. Let’s hope Hines is even better than CJ2K as a pure runner.

 

Ehh up until the 2016 season he had 4 yards per carry or better every season but 1. (And that season was 3.9)

 

Also he put up 4 straight 1000+ yard seasons after his 2k season.  6 straight 1000+ yard seasons overall.   His first 7 seasons he only missed 1 game.  

 

Chris Johnson wasn't bad.  But he's a RB who have short careers anyways.  On top of that players that rely a great deal on speed tend to fall off faster then those that don't.  

 

For an RB Chris Johnson had a pretty successful career.  Don't get me wrong, at this point he's done.  But I don't think the stats support your view that he was "always overrated".

[NewColtsFan]

46 minutes ago, A8bil said:

Really?  Silly?  Perhaps think a bit before denigrating others points.  

 

CJ's 2K yards in 2009 was a great accomplishment, but if a RB cant get even close to repeating a 2k season, it is an anomaly, and for CJ that was the case.  

 

In CJ's 2k year, defenses had not recognized or adjusted for his speed.  He had an unreal 22 carries that went for more than 20 yards, and 7 that went for more than 40 yards.  That was nearly double of AP in both categories, who himself was pretty fast and near the top of the league in both categories.  By 2010, CJ was not even the league leader in either category. By 2011, he had only 1 carry over 40 yards.  Once defenses took away the big homerun threat from CJ, his lacks of RB skills became very apparent.

 

I don't buy that it was a result of so many carries.  There were lots of backs getting a similar number of carries who didn't fall of the table in production.  Do you have any doubt that in 2011-2013 CJ was still the fastest back in the league?  Maybe Charles, Best and Spiller had similar speed, but CJ was still the fastest.  He simply was not seeing the wide open holes he saw in 2009 because defenses had adjusted to him, and CJ did not have the skills to either move the chains or create long runs for himself (like McCoy does).  His game became a bunch of games where he avg. 2-3 ypc and an occasional game where he had a 20-30 yard run.  

 

Believing that even a 4.3 40 guy can replicate what CJ did in 2009 is a fool's game.  The league learned and now understands the importance of speed and how to defend it.  Defenses are much faster now...the days of the plodding hole stuffing MLB are gone.  Side line to side line speed is perhaps the most important criteria teams are looking for when drafting LBs now.  Being "fast" is just not enough anymore.  A RB needs vision, elusiveness and strength to break arm tackles.  I don't see any of these things in Hines.

 

 

 

I'm going to be busy all day and night so I may not get to respond to you until tomorrow...

 

But I did want to say this....

 

You objected to my use of the word "silly"?   Seriously?    That bothered you?

 

YOU, who called out a fellow poster BY NAME in the FIRST SENTENCE of your post object to the word "silly",  which I didn't use until the end of my post.   Trust me when I tell you that there are many other words I could have used, ALL of which would have been accurate.   I thought I pulled my punch using "silly."

 

To quote you...  your words now...   you might want to think before making a comment like that.

 

Until tomorrow...

 

[Peterk2011]

21 hours ago, rockywoj said:

Speed is important but there is a HUGE difference between track 40 time and functional football speed.  I agree with the notion that a .14 track time in the 40 is functionally irrelevant as it relates to playing football.  Three step quickness and elusiveness are WAY more important.  As for that track speed, the speed is clearly there for Hines, despite being a blink of the eye slower than the fastest timed track time speed.

 

I believe there is no single athletic trait / difference  wich can be viewed as functionally irrelevant in pro football. Everything might be a difference maker, if the player learns how to use his abilities to his advantage.

 

Not to mention, that all we know is 40 yards dash time, but we don't know nothing about how that time's been achieved. Some athletes have quicker release and burst then lower top speed while others start slower but have unique top speed. So Hynes might be slower in 40 than CJ2K was, but very well be quicker than him in the first 10 yards. Or vice versa.

 

All in all the kid is lightning fast. We don't need a clock to see that. On tape he is like a duracell rabbit lol.  He has everything to be a threat in the backfield or in the slot.

[SteelCityColt]

1 hour ago, Peterk2011 said:

 

I believe there is no single athletic trait / difference  wich can be viewed as functionally irrelevant in pro football. Everything might be a difference maker, if the player learns how to use his abilities to his advantage.

 

Not to mention, that all we know is 40 yards dash time, but we don't know nothing about how that time's been achieved. Some athletes have quicker release and burst then lower top speed while others start slower but have unique top speed. So Hynes might be slower in 40 than CJ2K was, but very well be quicker than him in the first 10 yards. Or vice versa.

 

All in all the kid is lightning fast. We don't need a clock to see that. On tape he is like a duracell rabbit lol.  He has everything to be a threat in the backfield or in the slot.

I did post the 10 yard comparison further up in the topic, Hines was slower to accelerate over the first 10 which could account for what he felt was on overall bad time.

[Hoose]

At the end of the day, doesn't Hines own the fastest 40 of all the RBs drafted this year?

And he has that "football speed" as well, which is even more important than a 40 yd time? 

So...can we all agree that this guy is fast? And elusive? And might be a great addition to the Offense?

Geez. So much fussing over a guy we ought to be celebrating as a new Colt. 

[crazycolt1]

1 minute ago, Hoose said:

At the end of the day, doesn't Hines own the fastest 40 of all the RBs drafted this year?

And he has that "football speed" as well, which is even more important than a 40 yd time? 

So...can we all agree that this guy is fast? And elusive? And might be a great addition to the Offense?

Geez. So much fussing over a guy we ought to be celebrating as a new Colt. 

I agree. This bickering over a new drafted player before we have seen one play from him in the pros is silly.

[Stephen]

20 hours ago, A8bil said:

Really?  Silly?  Perhaps think a bit before denigrating others points.  

 

CJ's 2K yards in 2009 was a great accomplishment, but if a RB cant get even close to repeating a 2k season, it is an anomaly, and for CJ that was the case.  

 

In CJ's 2k year, defenses had not recognized or adjusted for his speed.  He had an unreal 22 carries that went for more than 20 yards, and 7 that went for more than 40 yards.  That was nearly double of AP in both categories, who himself was pretty fast and near the top of the league in both categories.  By 2010, CJ was not even the league leader in either category. By 2011, he had only 1 carry over 40 yards.  Once defenses took away the big homerun threat from CJ, his lacks of RB skills became very apparent.

 

I don't buy that it was a result of so many carries.  There were lots of backs getting a similar number of carries who didn't fall of the table in production.  Do you have any doubt that in 2011-2013 CJ was still the fastest back in the league?  Maybe Charles, Best and Spiller had similar speed, but CJ was still the fastest.  He simply was not seeing the wide open holes he saw in 2009 because defenses had adjusted to him, and CJ did not have the skills to either move the chains or create long runs for himself (like McCoy does).  His game became a bunch of games where he avg. 2-3 ypc and an occasional game where he had a 20-30 yard run.  

 

Believing that even a 4.3 40 guy can replicate what CJ did in 2009 is a fool's game.  The league learned and now understands the importance of speed and how to defend it.  Defenses are much faster now...the days of the plodding hole stuffing MLB are gone.  Side line to side line speed is perhaps the most important criteria teams are looking for when drafting LBs now.  Being "fast" is just not enough anymore.  A RB needs vision, elusiveness and strength to break arm tackles.  I don't see any of these things in Hines.

 

 

Hines isnt a traditional rb anyway. He will probably have more receiving yards than rushing

[A8bil]

21 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I'm going to be busy all day and night so I may not get to respond to you until tomorrow...

 

But I did want to say this....

 

You objected to my use of the word "silly"?   Seriously?    That bothered you?

 

YOU, who called out a fellow poster BY NAME in the FIRST SENTENCE of your post object to the word "silly",  which I didn't use until the end of my post.   Trust me when I tell you that there are many other words I could have used, ALL of which would have been accurate.   I thought I pulled my punch using "silly."

 

To quote you...  your words now...   you might want to think before making a comment like that.

 

Until tomorrow...

 

OK...

[A8bil]

On 5/10/2018 at 9:59 PM, NewColtsFan said:

 

Yeah....   well I'm with @DaColts         I'm not getting it either....

 

Rendered meaningless?    CJ had four more 1,000 yard seasons AFTER his 2k yard season.    So, doesn't seem meaningless to me.     And he got badly overused.     In a two year window, he had 675 carries.   In 32 games.    Do the math,   that's 21 carries a game for two straight years.    Teams don't do that any more.    The Titan burned him out.     And that doesn't include his receptions.

 

You make it seem like anyone can gain 1,000 yards if they're fast enough.    The problem with that argument is most players who are that fast don't want the heavy contact that comes with being a RB.   That's why the super fast athletes are more typically WR's and Corners.   They avoid contact.    Not CJ.   

 

If gaining 2K yards was as easy as those in this thread make it out to be,  we'd have someone doing it every year.   But that doesn't happen --- does it?

 

If you simply want to argue that Adrian Peterson was a better back,  a tougher back,  that his accomplishment were more impressive you'll get no argument from me or anyone else.   But trying to trash Chris Johnson to make some point that his accomplishments weren't that impressive is just silly.     Embarrassingly silly.

 

I never said getting 2k was not impressive, and I'm not "trashing" CJ...I'm judging his career for what it was.  He had one great year because the league was not prepared for CJ's speed, not that he was a good RB.  Once the league adjusted for his speed, he became very pedestrian. 1000 yard seasons?  In 2010, there were 17 backs who had 1000+ yds, 15 in 2011 (and CJ was the lowest of all of them), 16 in 2012.  Basically half the starting backs in the league reach 1000 yards, and most of those who dont reach 1000 yards operate in a RB by committee system.  Again look at his drop off in 20+, 40+ and TD runs.  He had one great season (2009), one good season (2010) and the rest were pretty average, but in a way that is not actually helpful to a consistent offense. After 2010, he became a game breaker who couldn't break a game...and he never was a chainmover.  Why?  Not because he didn't have speed, but because he wasn't a very good RB.  Which is the point being made in this thread.  Speed without RB skills will not get you far in this league, particularly now that defenses have gotten so much faster.  

[A8bil]

2 hours ago, Stephen said:

Hines isnt a traditional rb anyway. He will probably have more receiving yards than rushing

if they can get him in space that will maximize his impact.  A lot of people thought Tavon Austin was going to have a huge impact in the NFL, but so far he hasn't.  I haven't watched him much with the Rams, but I"m curious why he hasn't been able to replicate his college success. hines is more RB than Austin was but Hines was impactful as a RB as well.  Just hasn't translated to the pros.

[TKnight24]

 

[Four2itus]

There is still a missing piece to this speed discussion. Straight speed is one thing. Cone drills are another. Neither tells you how fast a guy makes a cut when the moment of decision comes. Viewed in a vacuum...,  .13 secs looks a like a big difference. But the player who can see the right cut, and executes it instantly, can make up for a lack a speed.Not just a cut, nor a good curt...but the exact right cut. 

 

A great example was Eric Dickerson. He made moves that were just enough to get past a defender, and you would see hands slide off him.....and he would then cut just enough in the other direction, and do the same thing. Edgerrin was also a master of the perfect move. Edge could make 4.5 yards out of what would be 3.2 for a lot of other backs. That wasn't because of his speed. 

 

 

[A8bil]

13 hours ago, Four2itus said:

There is still a missing piece to this speed discussion. Straight speed is one thing. Cone drills are another. Neither tells you how fast a guy makes a cut when the moment of decision comes. Viewed in a vacuum...,  .13 secs looks a like a big difference. But the player who can see the right cut, and executes it instantly, can make up for a lack a speed.Not just a cut, nor a good curt...but the exact right cut. 

 

A great example was Eric Dickerson. He made moves that were just enough to get past a defender, and you would see hands slide off him.....and he would then cut just enough in the other direction, and do the same thing. Edgerrin was also a master of the perfect move. Edge could make 4.5 yards out of what would be 3.2 for a lot of other backs. That wasn't because of his speed. 

 

 

totally agree.  that is just one of many attributes of a great back.  Marcus Allen was great at minor adjustments at speed that kept defenders from getting solid hits on him.