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20 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

There you have it, the Chemistry destroyer. Now they have no chance to beat the Warriors, I knew Magic wouldn't sign him. Just too risky.

Yep, Houston sealed their fate.   Their best hope is for Carmello to get injured.  

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20 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

Things change......I'm getting OK with it....Lance will be out west....he'll rarely play the Pacers and I can root for him as a Laker........maybe he'll be back someday

...... I think our guard situation will take care of itself....Holiday may sit early but guards miss games like everybody else.  I will predict that while we were 0-8 when Victor did not play last year..

..we will have a winning record when Victor does not play this year

...

I wouldn't go that far.   If he misses the same 8 games, I see them going 3-5.   That is still a big improvement without your best player. 

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20 hours ago, Bluefire4 said:

I guess we are using O'Quinn in Al Jefferson's role and are going to use TJ Leaf this year in Trevor Booker's old role.

 

Looking forward to this year. Kevin Pritchard did exactly what he said he would. Keep his top 7 from last year for chemistry's sake, and add good pieces to it in FA.

We obviously messed with the chemistry when we didn't resign Lance...

We replaced him with a better player but we'll see if we miss what Lance exclusively brought us.

.... There is a danger in returning 7 regular from a team that didn't win a playoff series..

We may get the exact same result

 

..O'Quinn is interesting. I dont know his role. I hope it was explained to him that he may not play in some games.

Nobody rotates 3 centers every game

What I think his role may be....will be to face the more powerful low post players in the East...Guys like Embid and Drummond..guys who push Sabonis and Turner around..

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3 hours ago, Myles said:

I wouldn't go that far.   If he misses the same 8 games, I see them going 3-5.   That is still a big improvement without your best player. 

Evans is a prolific scorer......That's why he's here..

....we dont want to be so dependent on Victor..

Defense is not his thing....but he's got to score double figures every night and 20-30 if we need it..

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4 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

We obviously messed with the chemistry when we didn't resign Lance...

We replaced him with a better player but we'll see if we miss what Lance exclusively brought us.

.... There is a danger in returning 7 regular from a team that didn't win a playoff series..

We may get the exact same result

 

..O'Quinn is interesting. I dont know his role. I hope it was explained to him that he may not play in some games.

Nobody rotates 3 centers every game

What I think his role may be....will be to face the more powerful low post players in the East...Guys like Embid and Drummond..guys who push Sabonis and Turner around..

I agree that we messed with the Chemistry a bit by letting Lance go. He had Great Chemistry here with the 2nd unit. I see no danger in bringing back the starting lineup from last season though. It was their first season together and we lost in 7 games to LeBron, LeBron is out of the picture now. We will win a Playoff series this season, if not 2. We got the worst draw of the Playoffs and some act like we failed because we lost to LeBron LOL. By the way so did Toronto and Boston. Everyone did except for the Warriors. We even got cheated in Game 5 but I wont go back into that. 

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4 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

We obviously messed with the chemistry when we didn't resign Lance...

We replaced him with a better player but we'll see if we miss what Lance exclusively brought us.

.... There is a danger in returning 7 regular from a team that didn't win a playoff series..

We may get the exact same result

 

..O'Quinn is interesting. I dont know his role. I hope it was explained to him that he may not play in some games.

Nobody rotates 3 centers every game

What I think his role may be....will be to face the more powerful low post players in the East...Guys like Embid and Drummond..guys who push Sabonis and Turner around..

I think Lance is overrated by this fan base so I'm not as worried about that affecting our chemistry as others are. And you cannot ignore the fact that we went up against LeBron in the first round this year. Next year's playoffs will be much different without him and we have a better bench.

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24 minutes ago, Bluefire4 said:

I think Lance is overrated by this fan base so I'm not as worried about that affecting our chemistry as others are. And you cannot ignore the fact that we went up against LeBron in the first round this year. Next year's playoffs will be much different without him and we have a better bench.

I gave you a LIKE because I agree 100% with you regarding the opponent we played. How some people just get out of we didn't win a Playoff series doesn't see the whole picture. They have to look at who we played. Boston drew the Bucks, Philly drew the Heat, Toronto drew Washington. Had we played any of those teams we would've won those series fairly easy IMO. Washington is Good but their Chemistry is jacked - we probably win that in 6, the other 2 teams we would've won in 5. Had Philly or Boston played LeBron in Round 1 they would've lost. 

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8 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I agree that we messed with the Chemistry a bit by letting Lance go. He had Great Chemistry here with the 2nd unit. I see no danger in bringing back the starting lineup from last season though. It was their first season together and we lost in 7 games to LeBron, LeBron is out of the picture now. We will win a Playoff series this season, if not 2. We got the worst draw of the Playoffs and some act like we failed because we lost to LeBron LOL. By the way so did Toronto and Boston. Everyone did except for the Warriors. We even got cheated in Game 5 but I wont go back into that. 

You've got this belief that any result against LeBron is fixed.   Game 5 might support your thinking but I dont feel that way. I feel we missed a chance....a good chance...against a conference that was 'down'

We should have won.

We improved our bench but the conference will not be easier to win next season with Boston rising..and Philadelphia staying at their level.   Our goal should be to win the conference, right?

 

I'll say it again. If we consider winning 48 games and losing in the first round the kind of success where you bring back the starting 5.....there are three possible out comes (better, worse or the same) and we have to accept that there is no guarantee that 'keeping the team together' and 'chemistry' will make us one game better./

 

As good as they have been at times, its hard to argue that Doug McDermott, Tyreke Evans and Kyke O'Quinn coming off the bench are going to make us a conference championship team. Or even a 49-win team.  We can only hope.

 

But I'm not hearing excuses about 'bad draw; or 'Lebron games are fixed'

Or its 'our first year together'    We were 100% healthy and we lost in the first round of the playoffs to a team we beat all year. The 4th seed in a weak conference .

Those are the facts.

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7 hours ago, Bluefire4 said:

I think Lance is overrated by this fan base so I'm not as worried about that affecting our chemistry as others are. And you cannot ignore the fact that we went up against LeBron in the first round this year. Next year's playoffs will be much different without him and we have a better bench.

Again the hope that LeBron's abcence will automatically propel us one step further in the playoffs is weak. We better have a lot more than that.

We should have defeated Cleveland. A better series from Myles Turner up front and Darren Collison countering double teams on Vic..and we would have. 

 

I realize that major changes for this team are certainly in line after this coming season. We werent likely to add a major player this summer. The cash is in the card next summer...

I'm just saying that returning the same veteran starting 5 may  give us the same result. That's obviously a distinct possibility.

 

..and you underrate Lance Stephenson.

First of all...it seems now that it isnt totally our management's fault that he still isnt here..We didnt pick up his option but we made an offer. He chose L.A. Fine.

 

.......but we wouldnt have made the playoffs last year without Lance. 

Playing less than half the game,

9 points...5 rebounds...2.8 assists  our only player who played in all 82 games..

...and those 'half game' numbers werent his strength...those are replacable.

 

 Lance consistently lifted everybody on the floor especially at home with his energy.   Like him or not, that was also obvious.

No one we acquired is that 'high energy' guy.

Who will be that guy this coming year?  I dont know.

 

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My worry is the defense we lost with Lance.  It hasn't been replaced.   In fact we have brought in offensive power with defensive deficiencies.  I think the team will win close to 50 games and get the 4th spot in the East.   I think they will win their first series in the playoffs. 

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10 hours ago, Myles said:

My worry is the defense we lost with Lance.  It hasn't been replaced.   In fact we have brought in offensive power with defensive deficiencies.  I think the team will win close to 50 games and get the 4th spot in the East.   I think they will win their first series in the playoffs. 

Agreed..Its realistic to think that with largely the same team, we'll have about the same amount of wins...

..and I agree about Lance....Boston will have a very good bench. So will Toronto..

 

Lance isnt a great defender but he's a willing, physical one. We no longer have that.

I think we'll get consisitent years from Collison and Oladipo. Thad Young cant do more than he did last year

I'd like to see a little more from Bogdonavich and a lot more from Myles.

 

Its all about Myles.. If he could give us 18 and 10 instead of 13 and 7...we move up into the Top 3 in the conference.

Myles is the key to everything...

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11 hours ago, Myles said:

My worry is the defense we lost with Lance.  It hasn't been replaced.   In fact we have brought in offensive power with defensive deficiencies.  I think the team will win close to 50 games and get the 4th spot in the East.   I think they will win their first series in the playoffs. 

Pretty much what I have been saying. I say since this will be the 2nd season of our starters playing together we will probably have a couple of more wins. They should be real comfortable playing with each other now. Adding Evans is a Good thing too. I say 50/51 wins and we will win at least 1 Playoff series. Depending on the seedings, it still wouldn't surprise me if we made the ECFinals. Toronto is a shaky team in the Playoffs, they are not like playing against LeBron in the East. Philly hasn't proven anything yet either, they beat a weak Heat team in the Playoffs = Whoopty Doo! Then they got slapped by Boston who didn't even have Kyrie. To me Boston is the only scary team in the East but even they may not stay healthy? We will finish in the Top 4, it is just a matter of where?

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   Alex Proythress scored something like 25 points last night against Atlanta

I think we've released him......he's a free agent..he's 24...or 25

 

It brings up the question.

At what point do you stop assuming that a player will get better.?

 

It is being said that Boston' young players 'can do nothing but get better'

The 76ers' young stars will undoubtedly get better as they get older..

 

the Lakers young players cant help but get better.  Cleveland has Nance. Clarkson and Hood.

Donovan Mitchell 'can do nothing but get better'

 

Not speaking about any particular player. Just in general.

At what age do we stop assuming a young player will (not 'can' but will) get better with age and experience?

 

 

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 The answer to the 1-and done might be.

2 levels of the G-league.

If high school graduates simply dont want to attend college..

....and its decided that college freshman who dont really want to be there are bad for college basketball.

The NBA could have a G league and G-league for 21 and under

A high school player who chooses not to attend college but isnt drafted could sign (for very low money) in the 21-and-under league.

 

The games could be played before the regular G-league games. If a player showed potentiail at 18 or 19, he could come back at age 20. If he showed potential again.he could come back at age 21.

Again, pay would be slim but he;d be with the organization. They'd feed him and take care of his medical needs.

At age 22, he could go to the G-league and continue his career and his stay in the G-league would be as long as his ability merited.  If he never made the NBA after 3 years in the minors, then he received his chance. That's fair.

He'd have to go on with his life like we all do. But he'd have taken his shot at it.

Like minor league baseball players.

 

I dont want 18 year olds playing in the NBA.  Worse yet would be 18 and 19 year olds sitting on the bench in the NBA.

But the worst case is an 18 year old who rejects college and then is cut from the pros before he ever plays. That guy has nothing.

 

A G-league for 21-and-under might help.

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22 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

   Alex Proythress scored something like 25 points last night against Atlanta

I think we've released him......he's a free agent..he's 24...or 25

 

It brings up the question.

At what point do you stop assuming that a player will get better.?

 

It is being said that Boston' young players 'can do nothing but get better'

The 76ers' young stars will undoubtedly get better as they get older..

 

the Lakers young players cant help but get better.  Cleveland has Nance. Clarkson and Hood.

Donovan Mitchell 'can do nothing but get better'

 

Not speaking about any particular player. Just in general.

At what age do we stop assuming a young player will (not 'can' but will) get better with age and experience?

 

 

Hmm...were you the one that gave up on Myles?? So what...22 is when you give up? Just a comparison...Poythress is 24....and playing against basically g-leaguers out there. He will find a spot out there I'm sure....definitely could play over seas...but if your saying he has more potential in him...and Myles doesn't I just don't get it.

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22 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

 The answer to the 1-and done might be.

2 levels of the G-league.

If high school graduates simply dont want to attend college..

....and its decided that college freshman who dont really want to be there are bad for college basketball.

The NBA could have a G league and G-league for 21 and under

A high school player who chooses not to attend college but isnt drafted could sign (for very low money) in the 21-and-under league.

 

The games could be played before the regular G-league games. If a player showed potentiail at 18 or 19, he could come back at age 20. If he showed potential again.he could come back at age 21.

Again, pay would be slim but he;d be with the organization. They'd feed him and take care of his medical needs.

At age 22, he could go to the G-league and continue his career and his stay in the G-league would be as long as his ability merited.  If he never made the NBA after 3 years in the minors, then he received his chance. That's fair.

He'd have to go on with his life like we all do. But he'd have taken his shot at it.

Like minor league baseball players.

 

I dont want 18 year olds playing in the NBA.  Worse yet would be 18 and 19 year olds sitting on the bench in the NBA.

But the worst case is an 18 year old who rejects college and then is cut from the pros before he ever plays. That guy has nothing.

 

A G-league for 21-and-under might help.

I agree most 18 year olds shouldn't be playing in the NBA...but there are the Kobe's, Garnett's, Lebron's etc that have what it takes. To me it's up to each team to decide how they want to develop their players. I think keeping the rookies and young players in the G-league makes sense....call them up later in the season like baseball does. That way you get cost control of players. (say they get a signing bonus after drafting..but salary is minimal) In the end I'm afraid not much will change in the NBA...which is why I prefer college basketball...the poor teams find talent...develop talent...then the talent goes to LA or larger markets to play with their friends. It's very hard to keep your talent home. Whether that's draft pick compensation when a free agent is signed away or we go to more cap restrictions or we have franchise tags...something so these teams can hold on to their players.

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8 hours ago, dgambill said:

 I just don't get it.

Well, you're right about that.  You didnt understand virtually anything I said.:thinking:

I'm not declaring anything.  I'm asking.

I'm not talking about Alex Proythress in any way. He just happens to be 24..like I said

The key words here are... "Not speaking about any player in particular. Just in general"

 

 

Let me try again: In baseball if you are not improving by the time you are 23 or 24.....unless you are a pitcher (and probably a left-handed pitcher) you are no longer a prospect...That's the general consensus

 

What is that age in basketball?  Barring injury, and on the whole.  Not the rare freak case.

That's what I'm asking.

 

 

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8 hours ago, dgambill said:

I agree most 18 year olds shouldn't be playing in the NBA...but there are the Kobe's, Garnett's, Lebron's etc that have what it takes. To me it's up to each team to decide how they want to develop their players. I think keeping the rookies and young players in the G-league makes sense....call them up later in the season like baseball does. That way you get cost control of players. (say they get a signing bonus after drafting..but salary is minimal) In the end I'm afraid not much will change in the NBA...which is why I prefer college basketball...the poor teams find talent...develop talent...then the talent goes to LA or larger markets to play with their friends. It's very hard to keep your talent home. Whether that's draft pick compensation when a free agent is signed away or we go to more cap restrictions or we have franchise tags...something so these teams can hold on to their players.

Okay. maybe I didnt explain myself clearly on this one.

I dont want 18-year-old NBA players but the 1-and-done is on its way out...we're going to have them now.

And for the freak case of the guy who is drafted in the first round. He gets a bonus and a multi-year contract.

I'm not worried about him.

 

I dont want 12 guys declaring for the draft every year because they dont want to go to school and then not getting drafted or getting drafted in the 2nd round and getting cut when they're still kids.

Those guys cant go back to college and they probably cant get jobs overseas or in the G-league against 28 year olds.

 

My idea is that those 21-and-under guys who dont want to go to school and dont get drafted (or get cut) have a chance to play in the 'low' minor leagues for a year or two at low pay to see if they can make it.

That would help the NBA..it would employ and train those players for 2 or 3 years and it would make college basketball a better game because those college kids would be there because they wanted to.

I'd also add a rule that if you accept a college scholarship, you cant be drafted until you are 21.

That would really help the college game and the NBA needs to help college basketball

 

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  Jimmy Butler turns down 4 years ...$100 mil from Minnesota...really?

Didnt expect that.

Maybe he'd like another quiet peaceful midwest hometown ....next summer.

 

 

...'with Jimmy....all the pistons are firing'   Norman Dale - 1986 - Hickory, Indiana

...

 

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On 7/13/2018 at 7:49 PM, oldunclemark said:

Okay. maybe I didnt explain myself clearly on this one.

I dont want 18-year-old NBA players but the 1-and-done is on its way out...we're going to have them now.

And for the freak case of the guy who is drafted in the first round. He gets a bonus and a multi-year contract.

I'm not worried about him.

 

I dont want 12 guys declaring for the draft every year because they dont want to go to school and then not getting drafted or getting drafted in the 2nd round and getting cut when they're still kids.

Those guys cant go back to college and they probably cant get jobs overseas or in the G-league against 28 year olds.

 

My idea is that those 21-and-under guys who dont want to go to school and dont get drafted (or get cut) have a chance to play in the 'low' minor leagues for a year or two at low pay to see if they can make it.

That would help the NBA..it would employ and train those players for 2 or 3 years and it would make college basketball a better game because those college kids would be there because they wanted to.

I'd also add a rule that if you accept a college scholarship, you cant be drafted until you are 21.

That would really help the college game and the NBA needs to help college basketball

 

I get you...personally I think if your 18 you should be able to choose what you want to do with your life. Who am I to tell you have to go to college. Kids can go in the army they can take a job fixing cars and vote but they can’t play professional basketball?! Luka Doncic was playing professionally since he was like 16. I think it benefits a young man to get an education and to play college ball but it’s not my place to force them. It’s up to the NBA to do something with these kids. Maybe a signing bonus that gets put into a trust something but people make dumb mistakes everyday. If they fail they can go play in China...they can still go to college.

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On 7/13/2018 at 7:39 PM, oldunclemark said:

Well, you're right about that.  You didnt understand virtually anything I said.:thinking:

I'm not declaring anything.  I'm asking.

I'm not talking about Alex Proythress in any way. He just happens to be 24..like I said

The key words here are... "Not speaking about any player in particular. Just in general"

 

 

Let me try again: In baseball if you are not improving by the time you are 23 or 24.....unless you are a pitcher (and probably a left-handed pitcher) you are no longer a prospect...That's the general consensus

 

What is that age in basketball?  Barring injury, and on the whole.  Not the rare freak case.

That's what I'm asking.

 

 

I would say it’s the same. Unless you have some particular skill if your 24-25 and not broken in the league your probably not making it. Maybe if you didn’t go pro til after you graduated you might be afforded a year or two but if you’ve been in the league 5 years you had best be showing something. I’d say most teams have given up on you unless you have a special skill or 7’0.

 

i apologize...you made it sound like we shouldn’t give up on Alex who we let go because he is only 24 and shown a flash in summer league. I was just saying you were suggesting Myles be moved or not part of our core plans because he isn’t progressing even though he is only 22 and playing against elite competition and playing well I might add.

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14 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

  Jimmy Butler turns down 4 years ...$100 mil from Minnesota...really?

Didnt expect that.

Maybe he'd like another quiet peaceful midwest hometown ....next summer.

 

 

...'with Jimmy....all the pistons are firing'   Norman Dale - 1986 - Hickory, Indiana

...

 

He can make way more next season from Minnesota so he was going to decline anyway, but there's a chance he could be headed elsewhere. I guess we'll have to wait and see if they put him on the trade block sometime this season.

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12 hours ago, Bluefire4 said:

He can make way more next season from Minnesota so he was going to decline anyway, but there's a chance he could be headed elsewhere. I guess we'll have to wait and see if they put him on the trade block sometime this season.

There is going to be more than half the league with max money next year...he will have lots of options. Heck he may even sign for the MLE and play a year in Golden State. Seems to be the envogue thing. The only thing with getting your money now is you could end up like Isiaih Thomas and instead of a brinks truck full of money he got the vet minimum. What a difference a year makes.

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21 hours ago, Bluefire4 said:

He can make way more next season from Minnesota so he was going to decline anyway, but there's a chance he could be headed elsewhere. I guess we'll have to wait and see if they put him on the trade block sometime this season.

He cant make 'way more' than $25 mil a year for 4 years.....

The word is it isnt about money..its about his younger teammates

He doesnt want to stay in Minneosta is what I'm reading.

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23 hours ago, dgambill said:

I would say it’s the same. Unless you have some particular skill if your 24-25 and not broken in the league your probably not making it. Maybe if you didn’t go pro til after you graduated you might be afforded a year or two but if you’ve been in the league 5 years you had best be showing something. I’d say most teams have given up on you unless you have a special skill or 7’0.

 

i apologize...you made it sound like we shouldn’t give up on Alex who we let go because he is only 24 and shown a flash in summer league. I was just saying you were suggesting Myles be moved or not part of our core plans because he isn’t progressing even though he is only 22 and playing against elite competition and playing well I might add.

I agree.

It would matter if you stay in college until you were 22..or 23...Then, you'd have to get 2 or 3 NBA years....

But if your'e drafted at age 19.....I think the age 23...4 years..is about it if you havent improved..

..and I mean guy who are not NBA starters...

 

There's a big difference between being in the G-league and being an NBA starter..

A G-league player at age 24 who doenst seem to be improving....is no longer a prospect....

A NBA starter at age 24 who doesnt seem to be improving is obviously still a prospect...

The question is. How Much do you pay him?

 

 

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23 hours ago, dgambill said:

I get you...personally I think if your 18 you should be able to choose what you want to do with your life. Who am I to tell you have to go to college. Kids can go in the army they can take a job fixing cars and vote but they can’t play professional basketball?! Luka Doncic was playing professionally since he was like 16. I think it benefits a young man to get an education and to play college ball but it’s not my place to force them. It’s up to the NBA to do something with these kids. Maybe a signing bonus that gets put into a trust something but people make dumb mistakes everyday. If they fail they can go play in China...they can still go to college.

I think NBA Teams have the right to say that they dont want 18 year olds in their league, if that's how they feel../ They are a private organization.

....the more 18 year olds play in the NBA..the more veteran players get cut.

the players' union does not want that.

 

The NBA may not feel that 18 and 19 year olds have a place sitting on an NBA bench. (I certainly dont)......and that teen bench players are better and more mature after a couple of years of college coaching.  Nobody has the 'right' to play in the NBA at age 18.

Some labor unions do require you to be 21...

Carpenters and electricians can require you be serve a 3 or 4 year apprenticeship beginning at age 18.   You cant be a police officer until you are 21 in any state I know of.

 

 But since there are so few pro basketball jobs...and teenagers do need coaching, the NBA might benefit from having a college-age league for boys who do not want to go to college or flunk out.

All colleges cant afford to pay all their athletes and they cant get away with simply paying the basketball players (by law you'd have to pay the women's players, too, right?)

.....and the NBA may compromise and say "You come to pro ball when you're 18 or you cant come until you're 21.

That helps college basketball.....because colleges have good players for 3 years instead of one.

  

 

The 'trust fund' idea is interesting.

Dont some baseball organizations include a paid college eduaction ($150,000 -  $200,000) in the bonus?

NBA teams can afford that because we're talking about far fewer draft choices.

 

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5 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

He cant make 'way more' than $25 mil a year for 4 years.....

The word is it isnt about money..its about his younger teammates

He doesnt want to stay in Minneosta is what I'm reading.

He can make $32 million over 5 years if he waits until next offseason. He's had a history of betting on himself and he's taking a risk to do so.

 

I'm not denying that he may end up somewhere else. I have seen the reports. Obviously he is keeping his options open. I think people are jumping to conclusions that he turned down this offer though. Even if he had just won a championship with the Timberwolves I don't think he signs that deal because he can make more money next year. That's the type of guy he is.

 

The Timberwolves would just trade him now if he didn't want to be there.

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14 hours ago, dgambill said:

There is going to be more than half the league with max money next year...he will have lots of options. Heck he may even sign for the MLE and play a year in Golden State. Seems to be the envogue thing. The only thing with getting your money now is you could end up like Isiaih Thomas and instead of a brinks truck full of money he got the vet minimum. What a difference a year makes.

Yep but Jimmy Butler has taken that risk before. He could of signed a 4 yr 44 million dollar deal the year before he won Most Improved Player, but he waited and earned himself a max contract. 

 

I think someone in Butler's camp intentionally put the reports out that he is disappointed with the young guys in Minnesota to give them some motivation coming into the season. That team should be contenders next year. Wiggins and KAT need to get to the next level.

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When it comes to a player I don't go by age to determine how Great someone can be. I go by number of years in the league, if in or by season 5 a player isn't an All-Star he normally wont be. It took Kobe Bryant and Paul George 4 years to be Great, Dipo was in year 5 last season. 3 great examples right there. Turner is entering year 4.

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4 hours ago, Bluefire4 said:

He can make $32 million over 5 years if he waits until next offseason. He's had a history of betting on himself and he's taking a risk to do so.

 

I'm not denying that he may end up somewhere else. I have seen the reports. Obviously he is keeping his options open. I think people are jumping to conclusions that he turned down this offer though. Even if he had just won a championship with the Timberwolves I don't think he signs that deal because he can make more money next year. That's the type of guy he is.

 

The Timberwolves would just trade him now if he didn't want to be there.

We have a different definition of 'way more';

The difference between $25 mil and $32 mil is not a risk to me...

Think about it: He's not leaving Thibedeau and Minneosta over $7 million a year

He's made a lot of money in the NBA...He's making $20 mil next year (made $19 mi last year) as it is...and his coach may not be there much longer

 

Bottom line: Think deeper than 'he's simply trying to max out his earnings'...

He doesnt think Karl Anthony Towns and Andrew Wiggins.....are winning players in the 'contract window' 'he's in.   Reports are he's making it clear he doenst want to be there anymore with those 2. 

 . I think hed come to the Pacers and we'd have the money...if we play well..guys like this will want to be in Indy.  He's 29 and play a position where we have little. I'd do it. 

  There are very few player where there's no question about their ability on offense and defense.

...this is the kind of proven two-way player player you go get.

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2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

When it comes to a player I don't go by age to determine how Great someone can be. I go by number of years in the league, if in or by season 5 a player isn't an All-Star he normally wont be. It took Kobe Bryant and Paul George 4 years to be Great, Dipo was in year 5 last season. 3 great examples right there. Turner is entering year 4.

Again..understand what I'm asking....I'm not talking about the  'freaks'. Kobe or Paul George. The exceptionals.

I'm talking about 99% of players.

Guys like Alex Proythress' age..Joe Young...Aioze Johnson. Siem guys get 5 years....

Guys drafted when they are 28,..wont

How long do you look at them and say.....And I;m not talking about being great.

I'm talking about improving.....

...

I'm asking..at what age is someone no longer a prospect...Baseball is much more defined but there are freak cases.

Wilson Contreras changed positions in the minor leagues......

But he is a freak case. In baseball..its about 21 or 22 if you are not improving and not a pitcher.

Do positions matter in basketball developement?

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my take on victors late rise  is he was a top prospect and the second overall pick, he just went to two bad team situations before he got here.  the magic were a mess and still are, and he does not fit with Russel westbrook 

 

he was motivated when he got here, and the hoosier connection mattered too

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14 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

I think NBA Teams have the right to say that they dont want 18 year olds in their league, if that's how they feel../ They are a private organization.

....the more 18 year olds play in the NBA..the more veteran players get cut.

the players' union does not want that.

 

 

 

I understand what you are saying, but I'd just let it work itself out.   You would think that if the risk of drafting 18 year olds was great, that teams would stop doing it.   Right now they seem to view it as a risk worth taking.  

 

I actually like what the "one and done" has done to college basketball.   It has allowed small schools to be competitive in March.  A senior-laden mid major can compete with a big inexperienced team now.     

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6 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

We have a different definition of 'way more';

The difference between $25 mil and $32 mil is not a risk to me...

Think about it: He's not leaving Thibedeau and Minneosta over $7 million a year

He's made a lot of money in the NBA...He's making $20 mil next year (made $19 mi last year) as it is...and his coach may not be there much longer

 

Bottom line: Think deeper than 'he's simply trying to max out his earnings'...

He doesnt think Karl Anthony Towns and Andrew Wiggins.....are winning players in the 'contract window' 'he's in.   Reports are he's making it clear he doenst want to be there anymore with those 2. 

 . I think hed come to the Pacers and we'd have the money...if we play well..guys like this will want to be in Indy.  He's 29 and play a position where we have little. I'd do it. 

  There are very few player where there's no question about their ability on offense and defense.

...this is the kind of proven two-way player player you go get.

An extra year on his contract is $32 million dollars in just one year. 7 million dollars a year over four years is $28 million. That means he can make an extra $60 million if he waits until next year. That is "way more" money to me. 

 

Every article that mentions that Jimmy Butler doesn't like KAT also mentions that Butler was expected to decline the offer because it makes more financial sense to wait until next year because he can make more money from the Timberwolves, the salary cap is expected to increase, and way more teams will have money next year.

 

Again, if he didn't want to play with the Timberwolves he would already be on the trading block. He's trying to motivate KAT and Wiggins to actually reach their potential so they could have more success this year. They were already the 3rd seed before Jimmy Butler got hurt and that was without KAT and Wiggins playing up to their potential.

 

You think everybody would come to the Pacers. There is no inclination that Jimmy has even thought about coming here. He's recently liked random people's post about joining the Knicks and Spurs, but I still think he's doing that to put the pressure on Minnesota and none of it is serious. 

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