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For those who hate the Nelson pick... Kravitz article makes interesting reading

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51 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Well, it does limit your options.

 

Manning never had a good run blocking line, yet didn't take as much punishment.  He made sure he got rid of the ball and he had 4 players at "wow" positions to do so because they were open quickly.

 

In fact our run blocking oline was so bad BB told his defense to simply ignore the run and focus on the pass.  And yet, Manning never came close to leading the league in sacks.

Manning may have had one of the quickest releases in the NFL. This comparing him to Luck is pure nonsense. Their styles are totally different. Who cares what BB said? 

45 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Before I go. 

 

It would be interesting to see how Hugh Thornton, Kahlid Holmes, Jerrmy Vujnovich, Jack Mewhort, and Joe Haeg, would have performed in the Manning/Moore offense that had viable pass catchers.

 

It would be nice if a "knowledgeable" football commentator like Kravitz would do an objective analysis on that.  

Just because you don't agree with the Nelson pick you bring up "knowledgeable" ? Really?

From you past comments no matter who Ballard picked you would have found fault with it if it didn't match who you wanted picked. (on second thought you would have found fault with who ever Ballard picked)

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Result is the same. We pick Nelson....perhaps 1/3 don't like it. We take someone else? perhaps 1/3 wouldn't like it. We trade down farther, perhaps 1/3 wouldn't like it. 

 

Moral.....you can't please everyone. I...am quite happy at this time to be in the 'pleased' section. Then again, I always am., and that is by choice. 

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2 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

Result is the same. We pick Nelson....perhaps 1/3 don't like it. We take someone else? perhaps 1/3 wouldn't like it. We trade down farther, perhaps 1/3 wouldn't like it. 

 

Moral.....you can't please everyone. I...am quite happy at this time to be in the 'pleased' section. Then again, I always am., and that is by choice. 

Truer works couldn't have been said.

The sad part is some of those 1/3 posters can't be happy with anything that is done. They bring non stop negativity every comment they make.

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8 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

Result is the same. We pick Nelson....perhaps 1/3 don't like it. We take someone else? perhaps 1/3 wouldn't like it. We trade down farther, perhaps 1/3 wouldn't like it. 

 

Moral.....you can't please everyone. I...am quite happy at this time to be in the 'pleased' section. Then again, I always am., and that is by choice. 

:scoregood:

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4 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Truer works couldn't have been said.

The sad part is some of those 1/3 posters can't be happy with anything that is done. They bring non stop negativity every comment they make.

 

Just now, csmopar said:

:scoregood:

Thanks. Had to quote, already blew my like quota. 

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3 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

 

Thanks. Had to quote, already blew my like quota. 

same here haha

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57 minutes ago, Superman said:

I love the player, Nelson I think will be great. I'm okay with the pick, don't like taking a guard at #6, and was hoping for a trade down. Also disappointed that Chubb went just ahead of us, but that's the draft.

 

As for this article, and all the similar points of view -- they miss the bigger issue, IMO. The Colts obviously need better players at OL, and I'm glad they're doing something about that. But the change in coaching is going to be far more important for protecting the QB. The truth is you don't have to have All Pro blockers to keep the QB clean.

 

That being the case, defending this pick strictly in the name of keeping Luck upright misses the mark.

 

Everybody (almost) only talks about protecting the QB....What about running the football? I don't have to tell you that the Colts have been deficient in this area too. It takes really good linemen to execute both duties well.

 

For too long the Colts have been bad at both pass pro and run blocking (as an entire unit). 

 

I remember you posting at season's end regarding what the Colts need. You said something like " give me O-line, some more O-line, and then some more O-line."

 

I agree that the scheme change and play calling will improve the O-line  play. But they also need an upgrade in talent, in my opinion.

 

If Hernandez falls to the Colts, and he is as good as advertised, why not take him and have a great interior line for years to come and not worry about those 3 positions for the next many drafts?

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1 hour ago, Fisticuffs111 said:


Agree with this. Nate Dunlevy was getting hounded on twitter for saying this, although he did come off as really bitter about the pick, but he did make a lot of good points about our scheme change being more important than having All Pro linemen.

I'm happy to have Nelson but yeah, taking a G at #6 does sit kind of oddly with me even though I am really glad to have him. And I was fine with not trading back especially since I didn't like what the Bucs got in return for the 7th (although I would've been happy with Roq at #6 too).
 

 

Nate Dunlevy was being ridiculous, IMO. Listening to him, it was a bad pick, and I disagree with that. 

 

I wasn't thrilled with the Bucs return for their pick, either. Once that happened, I was more okay with us staying put and taking Nelson, especially since the Bucs probably wanted him, so he likely would have been gone by #12. But I would have been okay with James, Edmunds and maybe even Davenport at #12, and we would have picked up #53 and #56 and still gotten one of my top 8 players most likely. Probably would have taken a future #1 to get Ballard to pass on Nelson and go down to #12.

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6 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Nate Dunlevy was being ridiculous, IMO. Listening to him, it was a bad pick, and I disagree with that. 

 

I wasn't thrilled with the Bucs return for their pick, either. Once that happened, I was more okay with us staying put and taking Nelson, especially since the Bucs probably wanted him, so he likely would have been gone by #12. But I would have been okay with James, Edmunds and maybe even Davenport at #12, and we would have picked up #53 and #56 and still gotten one of my top 8 players most likely. Probably would have taken a future #1 to get Ballard to pass on Nelson and go down to #12.


Oh, he definitely was being ridiculous and eally bitter (which he seems to be in general these days). Luke's usually has a much more measured take than his brother. What I meant by he was saying the same thing was just about what I bolded, not about you having the same general take on the pick itself.

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4 minutes ago, egg said:

 

Everybody (almost) only talks about protecting the QB....What about running the football? I don't have to tell you that the Colts have been deficient in this area too. It takes really good linemen to execute both duties well.

 

For too long the Colts have been bad at both pass pro and run blocking (as an entire unit). 

 

I remember you posting at season's end regarding what the Colts need. You said something like " give me O-line, some more O-line, and then some more O-line."

 

I agree that the scheme change and play calling will improve the O-line  play. But they also need an upgrade in talent, in my opinion.

 

If Hernandez falls to the Colts, and he is as good as advertised, why not take him and have a great interior line for years to come and not worry about those 3 positions for the next many drafts?

 

You see I'm not complaining about the pick. And to your point, you can scheme better protection, but you can't scheme good run blocking. I'm not saying scheme and play calling don't matter in the run game, but either your guys up front can get it done, or they can't. 

 

And yes, I did want 2-3 new starters on the OL, reliable guys, but I really wanted a free agent lineman. Then this leaning toward OL in the draft would be a non-issue, and you could stick to the board. In this case, the Colts did stick to their board, so I'm fine with Nelson, but I'm a little disappointed we didn't get a 'never hits free agency' kind of difference maker while sitting at the top of the draft. All told, I'd be happier if we stayed at #3 and took Chubb.

 

We'll see what happens today. I'm not tied to any positions moving forward. I expect them to stick to their board, maybe make another move today, and draft 3-4 good prospects. As long as they aren't reaching -- and I don't think they will -- I think I'll be fine with whatever they do.

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52 minutes ago, coltsfeva said:

     I’m warming to the pick. Nelson should help us in short yardage situations, help keep Luck upright, and improve the run game (which should help the defense rest).

   Heck, we may even see the return of the stretch play :banana:

The defense may suffer this season but they had to address the O-line this time and I think they'll pick another O-lineman in the second round. Then in 2019, they do more to address the defense not to say they won't pick defense in this draft but right there more concerned about the O-line. I mean you can't fix everything in one draft. 

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As far as picks go, we got the 2nd best pick possible (after Chubb), and it might end up being the most valuable pick we could of possibly hoped for. There are a couple O-Lineman that may fall to us at 36 and 37, however, there's still a lot of flexibility where we could double up on the position. Ballard just couldn't pass up on a generational talent like Nelson while he had the opportunity to take him, and not trading back bears that out. Correct pick in round 1 by Ballard and Luck will be much better off for it.

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I'll gladly admit I was one of the detractors last night as far as the Nelson pick.  But after the draft I can whole heartedly say taking Nelson was the best thing we could've done.  No way could I have predicted that the NFL would take 4 guards over corners and edge rushers.  That is flat out insane and kudos to Ballard for doing the homework and knowing his chances of getting a good guard we're very slim in the 2nd.

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12 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

You see I'm not complaining about the pick. And to your point, you can scheme better protection, but you can't scheme good run blocking. I'm not saying scheme and play calling don't matter in the run game, but either your guys up front can get it done, or they can't. 

 

And yes, I did want 2-3 new starters on the OL, reliable guys, but I really wanted a free agent lineman. Then this leaning toward OL in the draft would be a non-issue, and you could stick to the board. In this case, the Colts did stick to their board, so I'm fine with Nelson, but I'm a little disappointed we didn't get a 'never hits free agency' kind of difference maker while sitting at the top of the draft. All told, I'd be happier if we stayed at #3 and took Chubb.

 

We'll see what happens today. I'm not tied to any positions moving forward. I expect them to stick to their board, maybe make another move today, and draft 3-4 good prospects. As long as they aren't reaching -- and I don't think they will -- I think I'll be fine with whatever they do.

I think the rest of the picks will be what this draft can be graded on. Nelson IMO was a great pick but what is done in rounds 2-4 is where the truth will be told. Nelson could be considered a no brainer pick to most (including me) but tonight is where Ballard has to make this draft a success.

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1 hour ago, Superman said:

I love the player, Nelson I think will be great. I'm okay with the pick, don't like taking a guard at #6, and was hoping for a trade down. Also disappointed that Chubb went just ahead of us, but that's the draft.

 

As for this article, and all the similar points of view -- they miss the bigger issue, IMO. The Colts obviously need better players at OL, and I'm glad they're doing something about that. But the change in coaching is going to be far more important for protecting the QB. The truth is you don't have to have All Pro blockers to keep the QB clean.

 

That being the case, defending this pick strictly in the name of keeping Luck upright misses the mark.

1

One may also need to consider what's happening in Jacksonville, where people don't like to discuss it relative draft strategy, but winning the division matters if we are to reclaim the South we'll need to be able to handle elite and severe pressure from Jacksonville and for that matter Tennessee and Houston.  So in part, we need an oline that can answer that call.  I'm ok,if we there's a  OT we like in R2 to play the right side.  I have little to no interest in RB's or WR's at this point.  I would like to see a CB in R2 and an edge if available.  Protecting the Franchise is always job #2!

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I don't think anybody "hates" the Nelson pick. Like myself i love Nelson we got a great player. Some people are just a little skeptical because he is a Guard, and Guard don't usually go in the top 20 never mind the top 10. I would say not much value, but i said that in another thread and people are really confused and hating on me haha so ill leave it at that.

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2 hours ago, Superman said:

That being the case, defending this pick strictly in the name of keeping Luck upright misses the mark.

 

Exactly.

 

One very interesting thing new HC Reich said during his introduction speech was that he want the Colts to be able to enforce their will on the opponent. It is a very tall order, especially when it comes to the run game for us. You can only enforce your will with the run game if you have a dominant interior OL, at least IMHO. 

 

This will not work with Guards that can only pass protect, and this is why Nelson is such a great pick.

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Best player available.. the drop off from 6 to 12 clearly wasn’t worth two round picks to Ballard.

 

Id have taken Nelson with the #1 pick. An absolute beast. I’m guessing Ballard would have at three if he stayed there so it’s a huge win in my books. 

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3 hours ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

There's no telling what the brownies do.

Their the brownies.... Who knows, they might take a kicker & a punter. Lol

yeah, still cant believe they picked baker mayfield was their first choice lol

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4 hours ago, csmopar said:

yep, as i said last night, the anticipation for round 2 is like waiting for your date's prom dress to come off after the main dance is over... :lol:

The difference is, you dont wanna wake up to that "dress" discarded in a wrinkled pile on the bedroom floor.

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Anyone who hates the Nelson pick either isn't that smart. or is under the illusion the Colts don't need an OL men who could be an all pro. My new nic name for Nelson is pancake because thats what he does to opposing defensive players! I love the pick hes who I wanted!!!

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1 hour ago, Mr. Irrelevant said:

 

Exactly.

 

One very interesting thing new HC Reich said during his introduction speech was that he want the Colts to be able to enforce their will on the opponent. It is a very tall order, especially when it comes to the run game for us. You can only enforce your will with the run game if you have a dominant interior OL, at least IMHO. 

 

This will not work with Guards that can only pass protect, and this is why Nelson is such a great pick.

That's a bit of red meat for the fans.  Imposing your will on the opponent is like saying we want to build the monster.  That doesn't happen in the NFL.  Great college football fan line though.

 

Winning games comes down to a few plays, at least when the games matter in the playoffs and its between 2 equally talented teams.

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4 hours ago, DougDew said:

Well, it does limit your options.

 

Manning never had a good run blocking line, yet didn't take as much punishment.  He made sure he got rid of the ball and he had 4 players at "wow" positions to do so because they were open quickly.

 

In fact our run blocking oline was so bad BB told his defense to simply ignore the run and focus on the pass.  And yet, Manning never came close to leading the league in sacks.

 

Right, Manning masked a lot of deficiencies and as a result we underachieved in the playoffs.

 

Luck masked even more deficiencies, with worse coaching, at a younger age....and still won. 

 

It’s almost like you forget we got our butt kicked in the trenches and it’s the reason we lost so many playoff games with Manning.  

 

 

 

 

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Just now, Trueman said:

 

Right, Manning masked a lot of deficiencies and as a result we underachieved in the playoffs.

 

Luck masked even more deficiencies, with worse coaching, at a younger age....and still won. 

 

It’s almost like you forget we got our butt kicked in the trenches and it’s the reason we lost so many playoff games with Manning. Why do we want to replicate that again?

 

Elite QB’s can make lesser talent at skill positions functional. The blueprint is to give Luck a good OL and a good defense.

 

 

 

 

I'm merely saying that Reich's line about "imposing your will on the opponent" is red meat for the guys who think an Olineman has the ability to rag-doll NFL players like he did in college.

 

There were/are plenty of opportunities to upgrade the oline last night and tonight.  I'm for it.

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4 hours ago, DougDew said:

Well, it does limit your options.

 

Manning never had a good run blocking line, yet didn't take as much punishment.  He made sure he got rid of the ball and he had 4 players at "wow" positions to do so because they were open quickly.

 

In fact our run blocking oline was so bad BB told his defense to simply ignore the run and focus on the pass.  And yet, Manning never came close to leading the league in sacks.

Holy cow!!!

 

Are you arguing Manning’s superiority over the Colts current QB’s? 

 

Mr. Obvious is that you? Want to tell us water is wet, grass is green in spring, and ice is cold?

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6 hours ago, csmopar said:

Landry is falling for some reason and I don't know why.  So i'm ok if we miss out on him

 

It could be a size thing?

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3 hours ago, Surge89 said:

I'll gladly admit I was one of the detractors last night as far as the Nelson pick.  But after the draft I can whole heartedly say taking Nelson was the best thing we could've done.  No way could I have predicted that the NFL would take 4 guards over corners and edge rushers.  That is flat out insane and kudos to Ballard for doing the homework and knowing his chances of getting a good guard we're very slim in the 2nd.

I was on Team Nelson all along, so I loved the pick.

However, I think you can still get a good guard in the second round of this years draft. And I would be very tempted to pull the trigger if Hernadez is not picked up when we're on the clock.

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3 hours ago, Surge89 said:

I'll gladly admit I was one of the detractors last night as far as the Nelson pick.  But after the draft I can whole heartedly say taking Nelson was the best thing we could've done.  No way could I have predicted that the NFL would take 4 guards over corners and edge rushers.  That is flat out insane and kudos to Ballard for doing the homework and knowing his chances of getting a good guard we're very slim in the 2nd.

That does help and make Ballard look good with Ragnow, Wynn, and Price gone. O.Lineman are very important.

We still may even take Hernandez to put with Nelson and Kelly!

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5 hours ago, chad72 said:

What folks are missing is a good OL guy can demand more from the others without saying much and leading by example. Yes, an OL unit is as good as the weakest link but the weakest link would realize soon he has to step up or be left out if the others are performing better.

Exactly.  Hasselbeck said our Oline lacked leadership and this pick is as much about core leadership as it is with talent.  By the way I think tonight’s picks will too.  He is selecting leaders to build around.

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