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    • I'm in complete agreement with you.  1 - Football is a team game.   Winning SB's is great, but it is not the only way to judge a QB.   Watching the games is more important.   Marino was one of the 5 best I've ever seen play.      2 - MVP's are very overrated.      3 - Luck has lived up to the hype.   He's a top 5 QB in the league.  That's pretty much what you hope for when you take a QB in the top 3.     1) - 
    • This is a prisoner of the moment kind of argument, IMO. Luck got drafted with Russell Wilson, a third rounder who won a SB in his second year. Luck has never been to the SB. The Colts can't beat the Pats, they got to the AFCCG pretty quickly but then fell off, etc.   If you look at the typical benchmarks and don't actually analyze the players and their careers, it's not hard to see where this narrative comes from. It's dead wrong, but it's not hard to follow.
    • Addressing your points in bold, in numerical order:   1.) Luck has to win at least two SB's for me to crown him in the same league as Peyton: You are comparing the entirety of Manning's career vs. the half way mark for Luck. Also, football is the ultimate team game. Marino was outstanding and never won a Super Bowl, yet, I and many others consider him to be among the best ever. The last Super Bowl that Manning won, he was average (if that). It was the Bronco's defense that gift wrapped a going away present for Manning.   2.) He'll never win 5 MVP's. He'll never win 5 popularity contests. So what? He's already had several MVP worthy seasons as noted earlier in this thread.   3.) To me, Luck has under performed his hype so far. This argument bothers me the most, simply because I don't know what else he needs to do to live up to the hype. He was the #1 draft pick with a ton of hype coming out of Stanford, joining the Colts and following Manning. There was immense pressure on him to perform. So what does he do? He leads the 2012 Colts (a team completely devoid of talent -- going 2-14 the year before) to the playoffs. Along the way, he sets records for most yards thrown by a rookie QB in NFL history. Set the single-game rookie record with 433 yards passing. Set the record for most 300-yard games as a rookie (six 300-yard games). And he did all of this with a horrible O-line and NO run game, and a pedestrian defense. I would argue that you place any rookie QB in that same scenario and they would not perform nearly as well as Luck did. Luck has lived up to the hype. Unfortunately, Grigson, the 2012 Executive of the Year, peaked as a rookie GM and flamed out. He did not continue to build a winning culture and a winning foundation, and despite amazing seasons by Luck, his efforts were not enough to overcome the lack of talent on the team. Now that there is more talent on the Colts roster, we're seeing a healthier Luck that's settling nicely into this new offense. I have a feeling, when it's all said and done, Luck will be in the conversation
    • He's started five more games than Mahomes.
    • That's reasonable, and there have been tons of players with outstanding physical traits who couldn't put it together on the field. But Barton has rare size and movement ability, something you don't often find late in the draft, and if Mudd and Strausser know what they're doing, this is the kind of player that can really turn into something. Like, starting caliber LT, based on his traits.    Then again, he might just be another H/W/S guy who never develops into an actual NFL player.   I feel like Patterson's ceiling is probably decent spot starter / swing backup. 
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