Moosejawcolt

Big three available and the Colts pass

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If Barkley , Chubb and Nelson r there at #6 and the Colts pass, who do u think that mystery player is ? ?Just wondering  if u posters think they may someone rated higher and who that player may be. Looking for insightful reasons as to why they may take another player besides the big 3.

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1 minute ago, Moosejawcolt said:

If Barkley , Chubb and Nelson r there at #6 and the Colts pass, who do u think that mystery player is ? ?Just wondering  if u posters think they may someone rated higher and who that player may be. Looking for insightful reasons as to why they may take another player besides the big 3.

I like Edmunds personally but Smith may turn out to be Great as well? I have noticed a lot of people in here like one but not the other. I think both look good to me.

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1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I like Edmunds personally but Smith may turn out to be Great as well? I have noticed a lot of people in here like one but not the other. I think both look good to me.

I would agree, I like both.  Personally, I like Smith a smidge better because you CANNOT beat him to the sideline, but Edmunds has the bigger ceiling and freakish size and athleticism.  I read one draft thingy that said if Smith had Edmunds' size he would probably be the #1 prospect in this draft.

 

But I don't see the Colts passing on either Chubb or Nelson for them if they are available. 

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I have heard reasoning as to why not pick Nelson and Barkley.  One is a guard and the other is a running back. People speak of positional alue and I get it.  Would everyone b absolutely floored if they passed on Chubb? If they did pass wat do u think  would b the reasons for not  picking him?

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3 minutes ago, AZColt11 said:

I would agree, I like both.  Personally, I like Smith a smidge better because you CANNOT beat him to the sideline, but Edmunds has the bigger ceiling and freakish size and athleticism.  I read one draft thingy that said if Smith had Edmunds' size he would probably be the #1 prospect in this draft.

 

But I don't see the Colts passing on either Chubb or Nelson for them if they are available. 

Yeah I don't either. Only if somehow Chubb or Nelson is gone that would happen. Unless Ballard shocks us.

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1 minute ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I have heard reasoning as to why not pick Nelson and Barkley.  One is a guard and the other is a running back. People speak of positional alue and I get it.  Would everyone b absolutely floored if they passed on Chubb? If they did pass wat do u think  would b the reasons for not  picking him?

I think the fear of Chubb is many don't view him as an "elite" pass rusher, and I happen to agree.  But would he be the best the Colts have?  By a long shot.  What he is.....is a guy with good size who happens to be well-rounded.  He can get to the passer but equally impresses vs. the run, and he has a non-stop motor, often chasing guys down from behind.  He would fill an immediate need for the Colts if selected.

 

But I would say many are just looking at him as a pass-rusher only and not as impressed as some that have come out recently, such as Garrett last year.  Of course, that could also be why the Colts don't take him if available.

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2 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I have heard reasoning as to why not pick Nelson and Barkley.  One is a guard and the other is a running back. People speak of positional alue and I get it.  Would everyone b absolutely floored if they passed on Chubb? If they did pass wat do u think  would b the reasons for not  picking him?

I would be shocked if Barkley is there at #6. I think he has the Browns at 4 written all over him. I see Browns taking Darnold at 1, Giants taking Allen at 2 because Eli maybe has 2 more years left, Jets taking Rosen at 3, and Browns taking Barkley at 4. If this would be the case then the Broncos will probably take either Chubb or Nelson. Nelson or Chubb will be there in my scenario for us.

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18 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

If Barkley , Chubb and Nelson r there at #6 and the Colts pass, who do u think that mystery player is ? ?Just wondering  if u posters think they may someone rated higher and who that player may be. Looking for insightful reasons as to why they may take another player besides the big 3.

 

They will not pass on those three players for a mystery player at 6. 

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2 hours ago, AZColt11 said:

I think the fear of Chubb is many don't view him as an "elite" pass rusher, and I happen to agree.  But would he be the best the Colts have?  By a long shot.  What he is.....is a guy with good size who happens to be well-rounded.  He can get to the passer but equally impresses vs. the run, and he has a non-stop motor, often chasing guys down from behind.  He would fill an immediate need for the Colts if selected.

 

But I would say many are just looking at him as a pass-rusher only and not as impressed as some that have come out recently, such as Garrett last year.  Of course, that could also be why the Colts don't take him if available.

I think that would be the only reason. Chubb had 10 sacks; that's great but it's not elite. For example, one of the players Chubb's been compared to is Terrell Suggs. But I went back to look at Sugg's college stats. He had 24!!!! sacks as a senior. Davenport might be that surprise player. 

but, in the end, I think we take one of those three if they're there.

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2 hours ago, BProland85 said:

 

They will not pass on those three players for a mystery player at 6. 

Exactly, BP85 nailed it. 

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2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I would be shocked if Barkley is there at #6. I think he has the Browns at 4 written all over him. I see Browns taking Darnold at 1, Giants taking Allen at 2 because Eli maybe has 2 more years left, Jets taking Rosen at 3, and Browns taking Barkley at 4. If this would be the case then the Broncos will probably take either Chubb or Nelson. Nelson or Chubb will be there in my scenario for us.

Elway will take Nelson for sure if he's there. Darn it! I keep hearing Chubb to go with Von Miller in Denver, but John will snag Nelson just to tick me off. haha

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If all three are available, the only way the Colts pass is if they get a monster offer from another team to move up. I think that's the case even if only one of them is available.

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4 hours ago, Superman said:

If all three are available, the only way the Colts pass is if they get a monster offer from another team to move up. I think that's the case even if only one of them is available.

I totally agree. 

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6 hours ago, southwest1 said:

Elway will take Nelson for sure if he's there. Darn it! I keep hearing Chubb to go with Von Miller in Denver, but John will snag Nelson just to tick me off. haha

   Here’s the thing when it comes to Chubb vs Nelson: the drop off from Chubb to Landry or Davenport is greater than the drop off from Nelson to Hernandez or Wynn, from what I’ve heard.

  If that’s true, and Chubb is there, it’s a no-brainer to take Chubb and get Oline as part of the 2nd.

  If Chubb is gone, I wonder if it’s better to take Edmunds and go after Oline in the 2nd, even if Nelson is there.

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Personally I don’t think they take Nelson at 6 anyways, so it’s really the big 2 for me. But if I had to pick, I’d say Edmunds is the wildcard. He’s got the same elite traits as Barkley and Chubb to make him a consideration.

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Browns take Darnold - Going with him over Allen...Dorsey will take the True QB over hype

Giants take Chubb - This just makes sense to me after the JPP trade.  Get a solid player for far less money.

Jets take Rosen - Best QB on the board here.

Bills (trade with Browns) for Allen - Browns just paid Hyde and Dorsey is not a big first round RB guy so no Barkley

Broncos take Nelson - Pass on Mayfield and go witht he true O-line need

Colts - have the potential for trade out to the Dolphins or Cards or keep it.  Mayfield is best QB there and both teams might look to move for him instead of waiting and getting a Lamar Jackson or someone else.  For the record, I am a fan of Mason Rudolph who I would take before Jackson all day.  My guess is we get offers but ultimately ask to much and grab Barkley (best prospect available). I would rather either move back or simply take another position but this would be similar to last year.  A top talent falls to you still.

 

Just my prospective.

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I like Smith but the question for me is, how much better will he get?  He might not have to get better at all.  He might win DROY because his play is probably the most immediate fit into an NFL D than just about any other player.  He may hit his ceiling relatively quickly, and if its a high ceiling, that's okay.

 

Edmunds seems to have the ability to surpass Smith's ceiling, IMO.  And at MIKE instead of WILL, I think a higher ceiling makes for a better D.  I'd probably take the gamble that Edmunds becomes more impactful than Smith in year 3 when we are really contending.  I say Edmunds.

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Something that the majority of draft pundits and people on this forum are afraid to say is that some players will be busts in the first round that we could pick. Not everyone we can choose at 6 will turn out to be a great player. Half the choices will probably be busts. Out of Barkley, Chubb, Nelson, Edmunds, and Smith alone, probably 2 of those guys will bust in the NFL, and everyone is afraid to address this. I think the busts will be Chubb and Roquan if we choose them. I believe in scheme fit wholeheartedly, and these guys wouldn't fit our scheme that well and would be out of place on our defense. These are the wrong two choices for Ballard to draft IMO. Nelson is a safe pick and should be very solid on any team. Barkley is relatively safe and a high ceiling, while Edmunds has the highest ceiling in the draft in a 3-4 defense, and should be the easy choice for the Colts to draft if Barkley and Nelson are gone.

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8 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Something that the majority of draft pundits and people on this forum are afraid to say is that some players will be busts in the first round that we could pick. Not everyone we can choose at 6 will turn out to be a great player. Half the choices will probably be busts. Out of Barkley, Chubb, Nelson, Edmunds, and Smith alone, probably 2 of those guys will bust in the NFL, and everyone is afraid to address this. I think the busts will be Chubb and Roquan if we choose them. I believe in scheme fit wholeheartedly, and these guys wouldn't fit our scheme that well and would be out of place on our defense. These are the wrong two choices for Ballard to draft IMO. Nelson is a safe pick and should be very solid on any team. Barkley is relatively safe and a high ceiling, while Edmunds has the highest ceiling in the draft in a 3-4 defense, and should be the easy choice for the Colts to draft if Barkley and Nelson are gone.

Did you mean 3-4 or 4-3?

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2 minutes ago, CheezyColt said:

Did you mean 3-4 or 4-3?

Tremaine Edmunds is a 3-4 OLB, and we still run a 3-4 for the most part unless we changed it to a 4-3. So I meant 3-4 unless there is a scheme change here that I'm unaware of.

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Everything I have heard is that we're switching to a 4-3 Tampa 2 style defense again under Eberflus. Lots of Edmunds fans wanting to draft him as a MIKE for our D. What are your thoughts on him there?

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Roquon, but I don’t believe we would pass up Chubb for him...

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8 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Tremaine Edmunds is a 3-4 OLB, and we still run a 3-4 for the most part unless we changed it to a 4-3. So I meant 3-4 unless there is a scheme change here that I'm unaware of.

http://m.colts.com/news/article-1/Robert-Mathis-On-Colts’-Change-To-4-3-‘Pass-Rush-Is-Back-In-Indy’/1515d350-7b00-48c9-9b8b-c06a4e60920e

 

You might have missed this... Sounds like we are definitely going back to a 4-3 base. 

 

Edit:  this story points to 4-3 base as well 

 

http://m.colts.com/news/article-1/Matt-Eberflus-Discusses-Colts’-Transition-To-4-3-Base-Defense/84bf9df7-ada0-49c2-88d1-f26f60c10cd8

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5 minutes ago, CheezyColt said:

Everything I have heard is that we're switching to a 4-3 Tampa 2 style defense again under Eberflus. Lots of Edmunds fans wanting to draft him as a MIKE for our D. What are your thoughts on him there?

If we are switching to a 4-3 Tampa 2, then Edmunds is the bust for me for us. He is a pure 3-4 guy, and we have business trying to convert him to a 4-3 at all. In this case, I would take Chubb, Roquan, or Nelson over him. Edmunds is much more talented than Bjoern Werner, but it could be a similar situation if we force him into a 4-3. Roquan and Chubb are fantastic options if we are switching to the 4-3, and makes a lot of sense based on who we are scouting. Thanks for the info CheezyColt.

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3 minutes ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

Thank you very much Saturday. I did completely miss it and was very confused why we were so high on Chubb and Smith while running a 3-4 still. Makes a lot of sense and eases my mind come draft day.

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25 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

If we are switching to a 4-3 Tampa 2, then Edmunds is the bust for me for us. He is a pure 3-4 guy, and we have business trying to convert him to a 4-3 at all. In this case, I would take Chubb, Roquan, or Nelson over him. Edmunds is much more talented than Bjoern Werner, but it could be a similar situation if we force him into a 4-3. Roquan and Chubb are fantastic options if we are switching to the 4-3, and makes a lot of sense based on who we are scouting. Thanks for the info CheezyColt.

edmunds would be a mike or a will in a 4-3.  i think he could play the will no problem, but thats not great value for #6 overall.  it would be a good pick if he can turn into a good or great mike 

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10 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

edmunds would be a mike or a will in a 4-3.  i think he could play the will no problem, but thats not great value for #6 overall.  it would be a good pick if he can turn into a good or great mike 

Why do you say it is not good value at #6?  The draft is purely grabbing guys based on potential.  His potential is extremely high.

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5 minutes ago, DaColts85 said:

Why do you say it is not good value at #6?  The draft is purely grabbing guys based on potential.  His potential is extremely high.

will linebackers never go that high.  i looked the other day and couldnt find any that have, but i could have missed somebody 

 

we talk about positional value a lot on this forum, and the will is just not high value 

 

you can look at average salary by position to get an idea of how teams rank their value, and will is not high on the list 

 

 

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1 minute ago, aaron11 said:

will linebackers never go that high.  i looked the other day and couldnt find any that have, but i could have missed somebody 

 

we talk about positional value a lot on this forum, and the will is just not high value 

 

you can look at average salary by position to get an idea of how teams rank their value, and will is not high on the list 

 

 

I would just simply reply by saying, he is very capable at being a MLB.  So the value could easily be there.  As to pay and value comparison...not exactly.  Guards are being paid almost on par with Tackles.  Yet so many here dispute the "value" of Nelson.

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5 minutes ago, DaColts85 said:

I would just simply reply by saying, he is very capable at being a MLB.  So the value could easily be there.  As to pay and value comparison...not exactly.  Guards are being paid almost on par with Tackles.  Yet so many here dispute the "value" of Nelson.

the value of guards is going up, probably because of the oline "crisis" around the league

 

 nelson is  probably the safest pick in the draft too, with a very high floor and celing

 

plenty of people dont want nelson, too.  id be fine with him, but hes my third choice 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Superman said:

If all three are available, the only way the Colts pass is if they get a monster offer from another team to move up. I think that's the case even if only one of them is available.

Glad to see you back!

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51 minutes ago, krunk said:

I don't agree with Jared

Been playing Madden as an armchair GM. Using my skills to build some successful drafts. :lol:What don't you agree with me about? I did correct myself when I was told we are running a tampa 2 now.

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Just now, Jared Cisneros said:

Been playing Madden as an armchair GM. Using my skills to build some successful drafts. :lol:What don't you agree with me about? I did correct myself when I was told we are running a tampa 2 now.

I think tremaine can play either scheme.   Also don't think he's an OLB although you can use him that way if necessary.  That wouldn't be primarily what I drafted him for but it's good to see different ideas on the subject.   What I will say is most teams who utilize Tampa 2 their backers are usually 6 feet to 6 foot 1 like Roquan Smith.   Height wise Tremaine is a bit out side of that norm but I think his athleticism allows him to do pretty much whatever he wants.

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I along with others have been saying that Nelson at 6 is to high.  However one scout made the point that their r a number of dominant dtackles in the game.  He said  the importance of a dominant guard is increasing , as pressure is increasingly  coming up the middle.  A number of offences r based on the qb getting rid of the ball quickly. Getting around the edge is harder due to quick releases from the qbs.  Question.  If u r going into a game and Nelson can take on  Aaron Donald , Fletcher  Cox one on one....is that not a game changing player?  Just a thought

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Everyone who suggests passing on Nelson and instead take a LB because the G depth is so great later on is missing several thIngs. First, Nelson is EXACTLY what this team needs. The O-line is still badly in need of improvement. This guy solidifies one of the G spots for a decade. Second, how fickle is this Board on forgetting that the Colts HAVE to protect the QB. And the current bunch ain’t doing it very well. Third, there is a strong likelihood that 2-3 of the other top Guards will be gone before the Colts get to pick in the 2nd round. Edmunds or Smith over Nelson? Bad idea.    

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We r moving to a 4 3 defense similar to wat Seattle runs and Tampa 2 concepts.  What I have learned from those defences is the importance of a dominant Dtackle....maybe more so than a dominant edge rusher.   Is there a Dtackle that is worthy of a top 10 pick?  Does anyone see a Sapp  and/or Bennett clone in this draft? I do think our  # 6 will b trench player

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6 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

We r moving to a 4 3 defense similar to wat Seattle runs and Tampa 2 concepts.  What I have learned from those defences is the importance of a dominant Dtackle....maybe more so than a dominant edge rusher.   Is there a Dtackle that is worthy of a top 10 pick?  Does anyone see a Sapp  and/or Bennett clone in this draft? I do think our  # 6 will b trench player

No there isn't.  There's some pretty good ones but that is toward the end of round 1 and later on from there.  None of them are worthy of #6.

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I really like Fitzpatrick and a lot of pundits I respect seem to as well so I have never seen a reason to not put him up there with those guys.

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