TJ Green

[NDcolt]

SMH, I don’t get all the optimism regarding TJ Green?  This guy is a DHB clone, ALL speed & NO skill!  TJG problem is he lacks what I call football instincts, you either have it or you don’t & this guy doesn’t have it!  Grigson thought he could teach something that you just can’t teach & that’s instincts.  I relate it to having basketball IQ, if you got it you have a chance!  

[SolidGold]

1 minute ago, NDcolt said:

SMH, I don’t get all the optimism regarding TJ Green?  This guy is a DHB clone, ALL speed & NO skill!  TJG problem is he lacks what I call football instincts, you either have it or you don’t & this guy doesn’t have it!  Grigson thought he could teach something that you just can’t teach & that’s instincts.  I relate it to having basketball IQ, if you got it you have a chance!  

He's a bum. Javale Mcgee of his position.

[crazycolt1]

30 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

disagree with that, the good corners in the draft should be better than green in their first year.  wilson was better than him as a rookie, and actually took the job from him

 

green is a safety imo, that can play backup emergency corner 

Well you have already made up your mind he is no good so it don't matter what anyone else's opinion is.

[crazycolt1]

I am glad we have a lot of talent evaluators in here. When Ballard and his scouting crew gets fired it's nice to know there are qualified people to take their spots.

Make sure you all get your resumes together so Irsay can be looking them over.

[hoosierhawk]

30 minutes ago, NDcolt said:

SMH, I don’t get all the optimism regarding TJ Green?  This guy is a DHB clone, ALL speed & NO skill!  TJG problem is he lacks what I call football instincts, you either have it or you don’t & this guy doesn’t have it!  Grigson thought he could teach something that you just can’t teach & that’s instincts.  I relate it to having basketball IQ, if you got it you have a chance!  

Amazing how much smarter you are than Ballard. Stupid Ballard is willing to give him a chance at establishing him at one position but you already know he is a totally lost cause. We should should start analyzing these guys in grade school because they either have it or they don't. No way you can teach them anything. They either have it or they don't. 

[aaron11]

9 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Well you have already made up your mind he is no good so it don't matter what anyone else's opinion is.

its not like he was that great at playing corner.  green was kind of ok for an emergency back up.  

 

i do think a rookie thats a true corner back should be able to beat him out.

[Scott Pennock]

All I really care about is the Colts. I don't care about who's right or wrong in this discussion.

 

What is best for the team is that between the new coaching staff and TJ himself......he becomes a quality starter/contributor commensurate with his God given talent.

 

If "they" can realize that talent then that adds another piece to the base/core of this team for the near and long term...

[SolidGold]

 

2 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

I am glad we have a lot of talent evaluators in here. When Ballard and his scouting crew gets fired it's nice to know there are qualified people to take their spots.

Make sure you all get your resumes together so Irsay can be looking them over.

 

 

[NDcolt]

On 3/31/2018 at 8:10 PM, hoosierhawk said:

Amazing how much smarter you are than Ballard. Stupid Ballard is willing to give him a chance at establishing him at one position but you already know he is a totally lost cause. We should should start analyzing these guys in grade school because they either have it or they don't. No way you can teach them anything. They either have it or they don't. 

Let me clarify, I am a huge Colts fan first & I ROOT for EVERY colt member to become something special but just because CB is willing to give him a chance doesn’t mean he is NFL talent.  I hope he flips the switch but can’t you see the deficiency in his play to make you see otherwise?  Don’t you think CB knows he is a long shot but he’s not gonna say that out loud.  He has NO FB Instincts that is required to play the game at this level but I admire you for having hope, A true Colts fan!  

[SolidGold]

T.J Green On field POV

[VaAllDay757]

On 3/31/2018 at 7:39 PM, SolidGold said:

He's a bum. Javale Mcgee of his position.

Mcgee is actually decent especially on the defensive side of the ball

[ColtsBlueFL]

 

On 3/28/2018 at 11:18 PM, Calmack said:

You and @WarGhost seem to not understand what an instinct is. It is innate. It isn't taught. It's a fixed and natural response due to stimuli. Raw ability, and to the extent at which that individual performs, is conferred partly by many variables, one of them being instincts. 

 

Definition seems on target, but the subject is not. If you're talking about humans instincts to fear of predatory animals and snakes, etc...  I agree.  OTOH, there are no human instincts developed over time for a game that only a precious few receive.  I don't buy that. To me , the desire and ability to be taught and learn, to see and process quickly what has been learned, and to work at improving these things tirelessly are the traits one uses to excel above others.  If you have extraordinary athletic ability, you're another step up the rung on the ladder. If in all of this, you are positive and passionate, take another step up.

 

When a player is at a position for long periods, they seem to have better 'instincts', as they should because the ability to see, process, recognize, and react are already learned and solidly implanted.  When one is changing positions and hasn't had the ability to develop those 'instincts', they look confused and like they don't belong.  I am always of the opinion you do not truly know what you have in a player until year 3.  I am one to see if TJ continues his upward swing.  I hope so, and at the minimum, I can see him being the 3rd safety in a Big Nickel package, to cover athletic tight ends, slot receivers, and blitz off the edge.

 

This season will tell a lot for me, but not until then.

[Calmack]

2 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

 

Definition seems on target, but the subject is not. If you're talking about humans instincts to fear of predatory animals and snakes, etc...  I agree.  OTOH, there are no human instincts developed over time for a game that only a precious few receive.  I don't buy that. To me , the desire and ability to be taught and learn, to see and process quickly what has been learned, and to work at improving these things tirelessly are the traits one uses to excel above others.  If you have extraordinary athletic ability, you're another step up the rung on the ladder. If in all of this, you are positive and passionate, take another step up.

 

When a player is at a position for long periods, they seem to have better 'instincts', as they should because the ability to see, process, recognize, and react are already learned and solidly implanted.  When one is changing positions and hasn't had the ability to develop those 'instincts', they look confused and like they don't belong.  I am always of the opinion you do not truly know what you have in a player until year 3.  I am one to see if TJ continues his upward swing.  I hope so, and at the minimum, I can see him being the 3rd safety in a Big Nickel package, to cover athletic tight ends, slot receivers, and blitz off the edge.

 

This season will tell a lot for me, but not until then.

In this case of becoming better by practice, desire, repetition, and long exposure to the same situations the definition of instinct does not apply. It is semantics at this point seeing how the word instinct is tossed around here. I agree that through learned behavior he can become decent, maybe even good. If so, it did him no help switching between safety, CB, and the bench these past years... if you truly believe he can become better.

[ColtsBlitz]

There was already a topic on this a few months ago, new pff info though. I’m sure he was better, just didn’t play a whole lot. The only thing I remember about TJ a was how awful his man to man was. Dude has like a 50 overall in man. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

8 hours ago, Calmack said:

In this case of becoming better by practice, desire, repetition, and long exposure to the same situations the definition of instinct does not apply. It is semantics at this point seeing how the word instinct is tossed around here. I agree that through learned behavior he can become decent, maybe even good. If so, it did him no help switching between safety, CB, and the bench these past years... if you truly believe he can become better.

 

Because I disagree, it is now on "you' to "prove" there are human instincts for football that only a precious few are blessed with, as an unchosen yet natural characteristic of their makeup...

 

Otherwise I will place this in the "opinion stated as fact" pile...

[Calmack]

3 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Because I disagree, it is now on "you' to "prove" there are human instincts for football that only a precious few are blessed with, as an unchosen yet natural characteristic of their makeup...

 

Otherwise I will place this in the "opinion stated as fact" pile...

There is really nothing I can prove. This is simply my opinion that I strongly believe. I don't think there are "instincts for football" either. Just instincts in general that correlate with how well a player can perform. To get down to the nitty gritty and science behind it, I cannot. Therefore, feel free to chuck it in with that pile. 

[NewColtsFan]

On 3/28/2018 at 6:43 AM, twfish said:

We took him as a project. Expect a project. I get he was taken about 3-4 rounds too soon but I don't believe he was under as good of a player developmental coach as everyone made Pagano out to be. I mean really who has Pagano coached up that has played lights out? I don't expect much from him but I'm not going to trash the guy who had no say where he was drafted and who did make an improvement in his second year.

 

The list of DBs who played the best ball of their career under Pagano include...

 

Vonte Davis

Greg Toler.   (When healthy)

Darius Butler

Michael Adams

Dwight Lowery

Rahsaan Melvin

Pierre Desir

Nate Hairston

Clayton Geathers

Mathias Farley

 

That's 10...   and there may be others that I've forgotten.   And I didn't include Green who improved but who is not where we want or need him to be.   But he did improve.

 

[Defjamz26]

On 3/31/2018 at 7:33 PM, NDcolt said:

SMH, I don’t get all the optimism regarding TJ Green?  This guy is a DHB clone, ALL speed & NO skill!  TJG problem is he lacks what I call football instincts, you either have it or you don’t & this guy doesn’t have it!  Grigson thought he could teach something that you just can’t teach & that’s instincts.  I relate it to having basketball IQ, if you got it you have a chance!  

Agree 100%. Glad you brought up DHB because I was going to say that people are acting as if we’ve never seen guys like Green come into the league and know how it ends. DHB is a good example. Stephen Hill is another. Dri Archer, LaMichael James, heck even Trent Richardson. Athletes but bad football players who couldn’t excel at their position.

[lollygagger8]

On 3/31/2018 at 8:46 AM, masterlock said:

Hating PFF is like hating numbers.

 

LOL, that's funny. 

 

Their numbers don't make a whole lot of sense most of the time. They'll rate good players poorly and vice versa. 

 

It's also funny how people on here will use PFF when the numbers are in the Colts favor, and lambaste them when they aren't. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

On 4/6/2018 at 7:47 AM, lollygagger8 said:

 

LOL, that's funny. 

 

Their numbers don't make a whole lot of sense most of the time. They'll rate good players poorly and vice versa. 

 

It's also funny how people on here will use PFF when the numbers are in the Colts favor, and lambaste them when they aren't. 

 

30 out of 32 team are paying customers of PFF.  So are most broadcasting networks. Chip Kelly, one of the most vocal opponents against it at one time supposedly bought a share of the company after meeting with analysts there and seeing the process.

 

His main gripes then was one I can make to fans here-- intelligently grading a player if they don't know the play and each players responsibility in that play.  One of his statements-

 

" How can they grade an offensive lineman when they don't know what the play is? "

 

That sentiment permeates the NFL and fans to this day. Yet PFF thrives. Collinsworth and PFF has hired former NFL figures, including longtime assistant coach Gunther Cunningham, former Redskins lineman Will Montgomery, and former Redskins assistant Bobby Slowik, who since has returned to coaching. This is an interesting observation:

 

'Longtime Bengals offensive line coach Paul Alexander last season reviewed about 600 plays where PFF had downgraded one of his blockers; he told company founder Neil Hornsby that he disagreed with perhaps 12, "which is pretty remarkable," Alexander said.'

 

Analytics in football are here to stay... and get better.  As mentioned, nearly every (if not all) have subscribed to Stats LLC, and /or PFF.  Some even signed on to Pro Scout, Inc.  etc....  I've even heard rumors these are used in Team/Agent/Player contract negotiations.

 

I like having the data, but do temper it.  But those that dismiss PFF out of hand without providing clear and precise examples of why they are wrong {like an NFL coache(es) above tried} are warm wind.

 

 

 

 

[masterlock]

On 4/6/2018 at 7:47 AM, lollygagger8 said:

 

LOL, that's funny. 

 

Their numbers don't make a whole lot of sense most of the time. They'll rate good players poorly and vice versa. 

 

It's also funny how people on here will use PFF when the numbers are in the Colts favor, and lambaste them when they aren't. 

"Good" is a subjective term until quantitatively defined. Players are "good" if they meet a certain definition. We might not agree on that definition, and therein lies the problem.