Jump to content
Indianapolis Colts
Indianapolis Colts Fan Forum

Recommended Posts

Found this article and I was actually surprised. Obviously the kid has a ton of upside because of his size/athleticism. Not sure how to feel about his performance last year, but I will say with all the people that hate on him, he did play much better. I think he still makes the roster this year and could prove to be a decent player after all with continued coaching.

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-most-improved-pff-grades-defense-2017?utm_content=buffer2602b&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=nfl

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

We took him as a project. Expect a project. I get he was taken about 3-4 rounds too soon but I don't believe he was under as good of a player developmental coach as everyone made Pagano out to be. I mean really who has Pagano coached up that has played lights out? I don't expect much from him but I'm not going to trash the guy who had no say where he was drafted and who did make an improvement in his second year.

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

I expected an improvement from last year (hard not to) and he performed about as well as I expected. Hopefully he can improve even more next year. He will still probably end up being seen as being over drafted in the history books, but I think its possible he carves himself out a decent role for our team. Thats all that really matters at this point. No sense complaining about a past decision that cant be changed. 

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, lollygagger8 said:

It would be hard for Green not to improve on his first year performance. 

 

Also, I think PFF sucks.

 

While I don't hold PFF numbers as gospel, I wouldn't say it sucks, and his 73.9 overall & 84.4 vs the run are very solid numbers by PFF standards. If he can take another leap in year 3 with the new scheme & coaching staff, he may end up being a halfway decent player for us. I know I have a lot more faith in Green at this point than I do in Antonio Morrison.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

While I don't hold PFF numbers as gospel, I wouldn't say it sucks, and his 73.9 overall & 84.4 vs the run are very solid numbers by PFF standards. If he can take another leap in year 3 with the new scheme & coaching staff, he may end up being a halfway decent player for us. I know I have a lot more faith in Green at this point than I do in Antonio Morrison.

 

Hey, as long as he quits coming in for the missile hit against opponents and team mates alike, that will be an improvement. 

 

Morrison is so bad. 

 

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Honestly I think this new scheme that we're moving too would match his skillset a lot better and could see him making the roster as a backup. I really don't see how this guy isn't a special teams stud already but this guy has potential to be a solid player and I hope this new coaching staff cant get the best out of him,

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think he is a good athlete and decent project football players .... we can also blame the scheme and coaching staff. 

 

I say say let him play in the new def with better coaching and see if he improves. If he can’t then cut him or trade him off.

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Calmack said:

He's a project. A project who has shown to have no instincts. That can't be taught. He will be a special teamer IF he makes the team. 

Quick correction, instincts are the thing that can be taught, ability can’t. But yes, he doesn’t seem to want to figure out instincts, so he’ll be a ST

Link to post
Share on other sites

He played MUCH better last season. It was obvious that he had settled and wasn't as lost. He was so awful in 2016 that I found myself being surprised that he didn't get constantly picked on in coverage while he was in this last season. He has always been a solid blitzer, but looked like an actual football player at times throughout the year.

 

Still not a quality starter, but it could happen for him. Some raw players take off after year 3 or 4. I'm not holding my breath for Green to reach his athletic potential, but I do feel (just from watching the games) that PFF's assessment of his improvement is more or less accurate.

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, WarGhost21 said:

Quick correction, instincts are the thing that can be taught, ability can’t. But yes, he doesn’t seem to want to figure out instincts, so he’ll be a ST

Actually I think instincts correlate with ability. If you have good instincts your ability to perform will be better no? But yeah Green will be ST 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, WarGhost21 said:

Quick correction, instincts are the thing that can be taught, ability can’t. But yes, he doesn’t seem to want to figure out instincts, so he’ll be a ST

 

How can you teach instincts? By definition, instincts are innate...which means they are inherent and unlearned.

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

Add 15 lbs, learn to tackle the opponent, and I see no reason why he couldn't be a WLB in this scheme....he has the goods but needs to polish his game first and I hope he does.  While I may complain about a player that is always hurt or who was over drafted, I always root for them to do well...they are Colts after all. 

 

Disclaimer:  I am not saying all this will happen as a "perfect storm" would need to happen, but it is fun to speculate.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Andrew Luck fan club said:

Great athlete , not a good football player.

 

He played WR until his sophomore year in college, when he switched to S... as a junior he started at S on the National runner-up (lost to Alabama).  Pretty remarkable, actually to become a full-time starter with only 1 year of experience on a stacked Clemson roster.  He was drafted as a project, and he did show a lot of improvement last year.  Yes, he needs to improve much more before we call him a good football player, but it's too early to write him off just yet.  Also, I think we ought to keep in mind he was switched to a new position for part of last year and he has certainly not been surrounded by the greatest talent when he's been on the field... as a strong safety, sometimes your best friends are LBs, especially ILBs... when your best friends are Morrison and Co., you may be guilty by association at times.

 

9 hours ago, twfish said:

We took him as a project. Expect a project. I get he was taken about 3-4 rounds too soon but I don't believe he was under as good of a player developmental coach as everyone made Pagano out to be. I mean really who has Pagano coached up that has played lights out? I don't expect much from him but I'm not going to trash the guy who had no say where he was drafted and who did make an improvement in his second year.

 

He was taken early b/c his raw athleticism.  I agree, he was drafted as a project and I don't think Pagano or Grigs expected much from him until year 3-4... he was thrown in the fire very early as a rookie due to lack of surrounding talent and injury.  He improved last year. He needs to improve more, but it's not time to call this project a failure just yet

 

Also, I think Pagano is a good player development coach -- when he's asked to do just that (i.e., be a positional coach).  Pagano likely had too much on his plate as HC to devote a whole lot into individual player development... in some sense, it's on him for not having a better supporting coaching staff... but, I think Pagano could still be very effective in the NFL as a coordinator or a positional coach.. heck, maybe with a clean-slate free of Grigs, he could be a decent HC in the league again someday.

 

5 hours ago, Calmack said:

He's a project. A project who has shown to have no instincts. That can't be taught. He will be a special teamer IF he makes the team. 

 

Like @WarGhost21 said... instincts can be taught.  Raw ability cannot... no doubt TJ has raw ability.  He did improve last year, undoubtedly.  A new scheme, improved supporting cast, and some coaching help (Frank Reich and Ballard both emphasize the need to develop homegrown talent moreso than Pags and Grigs ever did) should help this kid out (he's still only 22 years old).  Being skeptical is one thing, as we all should be skeptical... but writing him off totally at this stage is pre-mature, IMO.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, shastamasta said:

 

How can you teach instincts? By definition, instincts are innate...which means they are inherent and unlearned.

Well, it’s kind of like a “muscle memory” sort of thing.  Through practiced routine and repetition, things can become second nature, or instinctual.

 

To quote Wikipedia, “Muscle memory has been used synonymously with motor learning, which is a form of procedural memory that involves consolidating a specific motor task into memory through repetition.”

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

While I don't hold PFF numbers as gospel, I wouldn't say it sucks, and his 73.9 overall & 84.4 vs the run are very solid numbers by PFF standards. If he can take another leap in year 3 with the new scheme & coaching staff, he may end up being a halfway decent player for us. I know I have a lot more faith in Green at this point than I do in Antonio Morrison.

 

He has always been willing to play the run which I like about him. He just needs to slow everything down in his head. Chucks defense was very complex and that is why we never saw many dominant performances. Also TJ needs to stop lowering his head before contact to avoid friendly fire collisions and penalties. I hope he works out.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, ColtsFanMikeC said:

 

He played WR until his sophomore year in college, when he switched to S... as a junior he started at S on the National runner-up (lost to Alabama).  Pretty remarkable, actually to become a full-time starter with only 1 year of experience on a stacked Clemson roster.  He was drafted as a project, and he did show a lot of improvement last year.  Yes, he needs to improve much more before we call him a good football player, but it's too early to write him off just yet.  Also, I think we ought to keep in mind he was switched to a new position for part of last year and he has certainly not been surrounded by the greatest talent when he's been on the field... as a strong safety, sometimes your best friends are LBs, especially ILBs... when your best friends are Morrison and Co., you may be guilty by association at times.

 

 

He was taken early b/c his raw athleticism.  I agree, he was drafted as a project and I don't think Pagano or Grigs expected much from him until year 3-4... he was thrown in the fire very early as a rookie due to lack of surrounding talent and injury.  He improved last year. He needs to improve more, but it's not time to call this project a failure just yet

 

Also, I think Pagano is a good player development coach -- when he's asked to do just that (i.e., be a positional coach).  Pagano likely had too much on his plate as HC to devote a whole lot into individual player development... in some sense, it's on him for not having a better supporting coaching staff... but, I think Pagano could still be very effective in the NFL as a coordinator or a positional coach.. heck, maybe with a clean-slate free of Grigs, he could be a decent HC in the league again someday.

 

 

Like @WarGhost21 said... instincts can be taught.  Raw ability cannot... no doubt TJ has raw ability.  He did improve last year, undoubtedly.  A new scheme, improved supporting cast, and some coaching help (Frank Reich and Ballard both emphasize the need to develop homegrown talent moreso than Pags and Grigs ever did) should help this kid out (he's still only 22 years old).  Being skeptical is one thing, as we all should be skeptical... but writing him off totally at this stage is pre-mature, IMO.

You and @WarGhost seem to not understand what an instinct is. It is innate. It isn't taught. It's a fixed and natural response due to stimuli. Raw ability, and to the extent at which that individual performs, is conferred partly by many variables, one of them being instincts. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Wasn't he a WR at Clemson as well? I mean if that is the case, why not get him to try to make the switch. See how he does in camp and pre season at receiver. Who knows maybe he will be better at that position. I mean what could it hurt? right?

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Alex22 said:

 

He has always been willing to play the run which I like about him. He just needs to slow everything down in his head. Chucks defense was very complex and that is why we never saw many dominant performances. Also TJ needs to stop lowering his head before contact to avoid friendly fire collisions and penalties. I hope he works out.  

 

Considering the rule change that just went into place, they're gonna have to coach that out of him if they plan to put him on the field.

Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, shastamasta said:

 

How can you teach instincts? By definition, instincts are innate...which means they are inherent and unlearned.

 

With good coaching, players can develop good football instincts through practice, repetition, watching film, and playing through a lot of in-game situations.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

With good coaching, players can develop good football instincts through practice, repetition, watching film, and playing through a lot of in-game situations.

 

I guess it's a matter of semantics. When I think of instincts, I think of gifts.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, shastamasta said:

 

I guess it's a matter of semantics. When I think of instincts, I think of gifts.

 

I'd say his gifts are his natural physical traits... speed, length, willingness to play downhill vs the run, etc. You can't teach all of those things, but a good coach can use those traits to instill good habits and decent football instincts. I'm hoping this staff is able to tap into something with Green that Pagano & Co weren't, otherwise he'll be on his way out.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/28/2018 at 9:18 PM, Calmack said:

You and @WarGhost seem to not understand what an instinct is. It is innate. It isn't taught. It's a fixed and natural response due to stimuli. Raw ability, and to the extent at which that individual performs, is conferred partly by many variables, one of them being instincts. 

What @Steamboat_Shaun says below...

 

The dude has played defense for 3 years and is 22 years old.  Instincts come natural to some (Hooker) and don't come at all to others, most are somewhere in between and need practice, repetition, muscle memory, film watching, coaching, making mistakes, and reinforcement when things are done right to really get it down.

 

Green has shown some flashes of being able to make plays (even if he has often screw ups).  He has also been surrounded by a pretty poor group of players and played a defensive scheme system which just didn't seem to work for most in the system.

 

On 3/29/2018 at 9:23 AM, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

With good coaching, players can develop good football instincts through practice, repetition, watching film, and playing through a lot of in-game situations.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

If TJ ever figures out how to take the correct angle to the ball, he'll be able to take advantage of his athletic talent. Picture an owl swooping in on a mouse. It actually looked that way on a few plays last year, but alas, too few. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, bleevit said:

If TJ ever figures out how to take the correct angle to the ball, he'll be able to take advantage of his athletic talent. Picture an owl swooping in on a mouse. It actually looked that way on a few plays last year, but alas, too few. 

 

As of right now, he might actually be the most explosive pass rusher on the roster. When they send that dude on blitzes, it's actually pretty darn impressive.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I read this quote from CB in reference to TJ and it makes me wonder...... "It is time. Going into year three, this is a big year for the kid and he knows it,” Ballard told 1070 The Fan. “It will be interesting to see if we can get him into just one position, let him compete, let him play fast.”

 

and the following.....

 

"The one thing I do know about T.J. is he can really run and he’s aggressive,” Ballard said. “It’s just now getting him plugged into one position and letting him get better at one position.”

 

Hooker has the Earl Thomas role...

Geathers has the Kam Chancellor role...

Wilson is our #1 Corner...

Hairston has the slot on lock...

 

What does that leave? Either he's going to compete with Moore, Desir and draft pick(s) for a starting corner spot OR he's backing up one of the safety spots? My guess is they want to find a way to put the best players on the field.....

 

I'm still of the opinion that you move him to corner and run all OTAs and preseason there and let his length, speed, strength and loose hips play on the outside knowing you've got a true centerfielder behind him. From the little bits of info spilling out about the new defense it seems like he can use his length and strength to alter routes and then drop into his zone with eyes on the QB so he can run downhill for tackles......or simply press and mirror the route in man coverage (which the coaches will have to work on his ball skills). 

 

Jonathan Gannon coached a pretty good secondary in Minnesota - with Alan Williams help, so I think they could coach him up pretty well ESPECIALLY since we have extra practices due to the coaching change!

Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Scott Pennock said:

What does that leave? Either he's going to compete with Moore, Desir and draft pick(s) for a starting corner spot OR he's backing up one of the safety spots? My guess is they want to find a way to put the best players on the field.....

 

hes a backup safety and emergency back up corner.  last year he played both 

 

he did get better, but i dont think its important to worry about getting green on the filed.  we could draft real corners that are better than him, like we did with wilson 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

hes a backup safety and emergency back up corner.  last year he played both 

 

he did get better, but i dont think its important to worry about getting green on the filed.  we could draft real corners that are better than him, like we did with wilson 

Cornerback is the toughest position to learn besides QB in the NFL. It normally takes 2-3 years for a drafted CB to learn to play in the NFL. That leaves Green with one year up on any drafted CB.

Besides, you don't have a clue what potential Green has. His chances of being a starting CB are just as good as any rookie drafted.

Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Cornerback is the toughest position to learn besides QB in the NFL. It normally takes 2-3 years for a drafted CB to learn to play in the NFL. That leaves Green with one year up on any drafted CB.

Besides, you don't have a clue what potential Green has. His chances of being a starting CB are just as good as any rookie drafted.

disagree with that, the good corners in the draft should be better than green in their first year.  wilson was better than him as a rookie, and actually took the job from him

 

green is a safety imo, that can play backup emergency corner 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...