Bradley Chub and the #6 pick

[PowerballBlue]

Am I the only one who is not sold on Chubb?  He is a power player with weak cone numbers.  It reminds me what former Colt tackle Ryan Diem said about Mario Williams.  He said Williams just kept power rushing over and over, hinting that it wasn't that tough to stop. I'll  also point out that Chubb was part of a loaded defensive line, which could have made things easier.  All of that bothers me.  If Chubb isn't dominate, then do you really draft a guard top 5.  The best player at #6 who is not a Chubb or Nelson is Derwin James, a safety.  I know 95% of you love either Chubb or Nelson, but just to humor me, if you had to draft someone besides them at #6, who would you take?  Pesonally, I think you need a difference making defender, but with Malik Hooker it makes no sense to get someone like Derwin James, or Fitzpatrick.  Some are saying Roquan Smith is no longer red flagged.  I know you love Chubb and Nelson, but is there another defender you'd take top 10.

[Dr. T]

Smith or Edmunds. We need impact LBs.

[stitches]

If you get a Mario Williams type player with no. 6 you've just hit the jackpot. Also, this is an extreme oversimplification to how Chubb wins. Chubb has elite hands and great technique. He doesn't just win with burst and power. 

 

About other options. I kind of like a lot of them. Probably the fact that I was ready to pick half of them at 3 and now we are going to have the chance to pick them at 6 and get several more good picks in addition makes my stance on positional value for guards a bit more mellow .

 

I love both LB options, one is probably better now(Roquan), but the other has the physical and athletic potential to be a franchise changing player in the middle of the defense(Edmunds). Minkah is so versatile that even if he doesn't end up sticking as a fulltime outside corner he will very likely give us a ton of value with his ability to play pretty much everywhere across the defensive backfield. Derwin is another high potential player. Nelson is probably the best OG prospect to come out of college since forever. I don't think I would really be upset with anyone really. I have some reservations about Ward but hell, even he seems like a very talented player. 

[Fluke_33]

3 minutes ago, stitches said:

If you get a Mario Williams type player with no. 6 you've just hit the jackpot. Also, this is an extreme oversimplification to how Chubb wins. Chubb has elite hands and great technique. He doesn't just win with burst and power. 

 

About other options. I kind of like a lot of them. Probably the fact that I was ready to pick half of them at 3 and now we are going to have the chance to pick them at 6 and get several more good picks in addition makes my stance on positional value for guards a bit more mellow .

 

I love both LB options, one is probably better now(Roquan), but the other has the physical and athletic potential to be a franchise changing player in the middle of the defense(Edmunds). Minkah is so versatile that even if he doesn't end up sticking as a fulltime outside corner he will very likely give us a ton of value with his ability to play pretty much everywhere across the defensive backfield. Derwin is another high potential player. Nelson is probably the best OG prospect to come out of college since forever. I don't think I would really be upset with anyone really. I have some reservations about Ward but hell, even he seems like a very talented player. 

This is on point.  nailed it. 

[shasta519]

1 hour ago, stitches said:

If you get a Mario Williams type player with no. 6 you've just hit the jackpot. Also, this is an extreme oversimplification to how Chubb wins. Chubb has elite hands and great technique. He doesn't just win with burst and power. 

 

About other options. I kind of like a lot of them. Probably the fact that I was ready to pick half of them at 3 and now we are going to have the chance to pick them at 6 and get several more good picks in addition makes my stance on positional value for guards a bit more mellow .

 

I love both LB options, one is probably better now(Roquan), but the other has the physical and athletic potential to be a franchise changing player in the middle of the defense(Edmunds). Minkah is so versatile that even if he doesn't end up sticking as a fulltime outside corner he will very likely give us a ton of value with his ability to play pretty much everywhere across the defensive backfield. Derwin is another high potential player. Nelson is probably the best OG prospect to come out of college since forever. I don't think I would really be upset with anyone really. I have some reservations about Ward but hell, even he seems like a very talented player. 

 

To be fair...if Ballard thought Chubb was Mario Williams, I am not sure he trades back. I think if Williams was a draft prospect now, he could make Ballard do bad things. That's basically Ballard's prototype for a 4-3 DL player...tall, freakish athlete, etc. And I think next year's draft will have a couple of guys who have a similar effect (Rashan Gary).

 

As for the draf options, this is exactly where I am at as well. I am good with like six players...Chubb, the top two ILBs, the top two Ss and Nelson (sort of).

 

Personally, I want the one that comes with the most draft value attached. My preference would be Edmunds...and I think they can get him with another trade down. But I am very intrigued by Minkah and James.

[PowerballBlue]

Edmunds has been described as active around the line of scrimmage, and behind the line of scrimmage, but how is he backing up?  Can he cover a TE?  If Edmunds or Roquan Smith can cover a TE, then heck ya, sign me up.  I've also thought about James and Fitzpatrick.  Maybe drafting another elite safety next to Hooker makes sense too.  It would be wild to have two super safeties.

 

I know Mario Williams and Chubb have different styles, and that Chubb doesn't just  bull rush, but my point is that it sounds like power is easier to stop than twitchy speed, regardless of how good his hands are. 

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, PowerballBlue said:

Am I the only one who is not sold on Chubb?  He is a power player with weak cone numbers.  It reminds me what former Colt tackle Ryan Diem said about Mario Williams.  He said Williams just kept power rushing over and over, hinting that it wasn't that tough to stop. I'll  also point out that Chubb was part of a loaded defensive line, which could have made things easier.  All of that bothers me.  If Chubb isn't dominate, then do you really draft a guard top 5.  The best player at #6 who is not a Chubb or Nelson is Derwin James, a safety.  I know 95% of you love either Chubb or Nelson, but just to humor me, if you had to draft someone besides them at #6, who would you take?  Pesonally, I think you need a difference making defender, but with Malik Hooker it makes no sense to get someone like Derwin James, or Fitzpatrick.  Some are saying Roquan Smith is no longer red flagged.  I know you love Chubb and Nelson, but is there another defender you'd take top 10.

Agreed.  And thanks for pointing out that he played on a stacked Dline.

 

With Geathers neck issue and Hooker's ACL, I don't see why folks think we are set at S.  I think its a need.  And there appears to also be decent value at #6 for a S.   

[DougDew]

28 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

To be fair...if Ballard thought Chubb was Mario Williams, I am not sure he trades back. I think if Williams was a draft prospect now, he could make Ballard do bad things. That's basically Ballard's prototype for a 4-3 DL player...tall, freakish athlete, etc. And I think next year's draft will have a couple of guys who have a similar effect (Rashan Gary).

 

As for the draf options, this is exactly where I am at as well. I am good with like six players...Chubb, the top two ILBs, the top two Ss and Nelson (sort of).

 

Personally, I want the one that comes with the most draft value attached. My preference would be Edmunds...and I think they can get him with another trade down. But I am very intrigued by Minkah and James.

I think Edmunds has the potential to be a guy who measures better than he plays.  OTOH, I have no doubts about Smith's ability to make an impact in the NFL.

 

To me, the two sure things in the top half of the draft are Nelson and Smith (and maybe the Ss).  And I'd take the WILL over the G every time.

 

I also think McGlinchey is a sure thing as a T.  LTs always a require top 15 pick or huge cap hits, and here's a chance to take one now on the cheap to replace AC in a couple of years, and it also fills an immediate need at RT in the meantime.  But McG at 6 would seem expensive.

[krunk]

17 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Agreed.  And thanks for pointing out that he played on a stacked Dline.

 

With Geathers neck issue and Hooker's ACL, I don't see why folks think we are set at S.  I think its a need.  And there appears to also be decent value at #6 for a S.   

What was so stacked about NC State D Line? Has anybody whose opinion mattered even presented that as an argument anywhere?

 

These type of threads are funny because you can produce them about anybody and there's always going to be one or two guys that say " Ya know what I think so!"  Somebody created one of these for Barkley and of course there were a few there as always.

[bananabucket]

6 minutes ago, krunk said:

What was so stacked about NC State D Line? Has anybody whose opinion mattered even presented that as an argument anywhere?

 

I don't see it as an argument against Chubb but it's certainly true.  In addition to the top 10 pick in Chubb they had BJ Hill and Justin Jones at DT, both likely to be day 2 picks.  Then opposite Chubb they had Kentavius Street, also a guy almost certain to be drafted.  If that isn't a stacked college football DL then I don't know what is.

[krunk]

9 minutes ago, bananabucket said:

 

I don't see it as an argument against Chubb but it's certainly true.  In addition to the top 10 pick in Chubb they had BJ Hill and Justin Jones at DT, both likely to be day 2 picks.  Then opposite Chubb they had Kentavius Street, also a guy almost certain to be drafted.  If that isn't a stacked college football DL then I don't know what is.

I see hill being projected as a 4th or 5th round pick.   I don't see 2nd round

I see Jones being projected as a 6th round pick according to Zierlein

And street being projected as a 7th round pick.  Possible UFA.

 

I don't see stacked.  What I see there is what you can find on a number of ACC and SEC teams.

[DownHillRunner]

If nobody is sold on Bradley Chubb now they never will be. 

[bananabucket]

12 minutes ago, krunk said:

I see hill being projected as a 4th or 5th round pick.   I don't see 2nd round

I see Jones being projected as a 6th round pick according to Zierlein

 

I remember hearing those ranges earlier on, but from what I can tell now the consensus is that Hill will be 2-3 and Jones will be 3-4.  Who really knows, precise projection isnt super important. It was a very good DL.  I mean it was no Clemson but it was one of the better in the country for sure.  You had Chubb off the edge, Hill to occupy blockers and handle double teams, and Jones as more of a disruptor.  Then Street who wasn't great but still good enough to be considered an NFL prospect.

 

I was actually reading a good article on Jones the other day, here it is if you're interested:

 

https://www.ndtscouting.com/tuls-nc-state-dt-justin-jones-criminally-underrated/

[Gigc]

2 hours ago, stitches said:

If you get a Mario Williams type player with no. 6 you've just hit the jackpot. Also, this is an extreme oversimplification to how Chubb wins. Chubb has elite hands and great technique. He doesn't just win with burst and power. 

 

About other options. I kind of like a lot of them. Probably the fact that I was ready to pick half of them at 3 and now we are going to have the chance to pick them at 6 and get several more good picks in addition makes my stance on positional value for guards a bit more mellow .

 

I love both LB options, one is probably better now(Roquan), but the other has the physical and athletic potential to be a franchise changing player in the middle of the defense(Edmunds). Minkah is so versatile that even if he doesn't end up sticking as a fulltime outside corner he will very likely give us a ton of value with his ability to play pretty much everywhere across the defensive backfield. Derwin is another high potential player. Nelson is probably the best OG prospect to come out of college since forever. I don't think I would really be upset with anyone really. I have some reservations about Ward but hell, even he seems like a very talented player. 

Edmunds is VERY intriguing. I worry, tho, about his lack of football instincts. I'm no expert, but in the video clips I've seen, he guesses, and he get's fooled a lot by misdirection. 

I'm old enough to remember Quentin Coryatt --- incredible athletic ability, but bad instincts. 

For what it's worth, if you go back and look at the Chiefs drafts while Ballard was there, they had a habit of picking OL and DBs --- lots of DBs. 

I would not be shocked by Denzel Ward.

[Barry Sears]

Given the recent events, and I'm sure others that may happen before the draft, we'll get a VERY GOOD player at #6, and it's going to be BPA, regardless of position, in my opinion.  We have holes to fill and can fill one with this pick, no doubt.

 

I doubt a trade down from #6 happens, but if it does, then it will happen when we are on the clock at #6.

[shasta519]

41 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Agreed.  And thanks for pointing out that he played on a stacked Dline.

 

With Geathers neck issue and Hooker's ACL, I don't see why folks think we are set at S.  I think its a need.  And there appears to also be decent value at #6 for a S.   

 

Even if Geathers didn't have a balky neck AND Hooker didn't tear his ACL...I still think S is a need. It won't be a popular opinion, but I think an upgrade at SS would suit this team well...especially one that can cover (one of Geathers' weaknesses). Having two top Ss would give this team an identity as well.

 

But also, I think the Colts are going to run more big nickel...as Ballard has preached about the defense playing fast and physical. Having an extra S in place of a LB to cover TEs and slot WRs would help in that regard. 

 

Fitzpatrick and James could be special players...and would fit both the defense and culture that Ballard is looking to build. I think we are going to see even more of a shift in how Ss are valued...so I would have no problem being ahead of the curve and grabbing one of those two players to pair with Hooker...with Geathers/Farley coming off the bench. 

[Trueman]

6 minutes ago, Gigc said:

Edmunds is VERY intriguing. I worry, tho, about his lack of football instincts. I'm no expert, but in the video clips I've seen, he guesses, and he get's fooled a lot by misdirection. 

I'm old enough to remember Quentin Coryatt --- incredible athletic ability, but bad instincts. 

For what it's worth, if you go back and look at the Chiefs drafts while Ballard was there, they had a habit of picking OL and DBs --- lots of DBs. 

I would not be shocked by Denzel Ward.

 

Yeah, but you’ve got to remember he’s still only 19. 

[krunk]

9 minutes ago, Gigc said:

Edmunds is VERY intriguing. I worry, tho, about his lack of football instincts. I'm no expert, but in the video clips I've seen, he guesses, and he get's fooled a lot by misdirection. 

I'm old enough to remember Quentin Coryatt --- incredible athletic ability, but bad instincts. 

For what it's worth, if you go back and look at the Chiefs drafts while Ballard was there, they had a habit of picking OL and DBs --- lots of DBs. 

I would not be shocked by Denzel Ward.

Keep in mind Edmunds is 19yrs old.  He's a baby.  Should be able to mold that I think.

[DougDew]

16 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

Even if Geathers didn't have a balky neck AND Hooker didn't tear his ACL...I still think S is a need. It won't be a popular opinion, but I think an upgrade at SS would suit this team well...especially one that can cover (one of Geathers' weaknesses). Having two top Ss would give this team an identity as well.

 

But also, I think the Colts are going to run more big nickel...as Ballard has preached about the defense playing fast and physical. Having an extra S in place of a LB to cover TEs and slot WRs would help in that regard. 

 

Fitzpatrick and James could be special players...and would fit both the defense and culture that Ballard is looking to build. I think we are going to see even more of a shift in how Ss are valued...so I would have no problem being ahead of the curve and grabbing one of those two players to pair with Hooker...with Geathers/Farley coming off the bench. 

As you explained it, we know coverage was not an elite skill for Hooker, and you say coverage is not one of Geathers strong points.

 

So in the modern NFL, how do we get coverage ability from the safeties we have?    Seems like a need to me.

 

If we're going more zone, it reduces that need partially.

[DougDew]

37 minutes ago, krunk said:

What was so stacked about NC State D Line? Has anybody whose opinion mattered even presented that as an argument anywhere?

 

These type of threads are funny because you can produce them about anybody and there's always going to be one or two guys that say " Ya know what I think so!"  Somebody created one of these for Barkley and of course there were a few there as always.

Not sure who's opinion matters and who's doesn't, but I read it in one of those NFL draft sites.  It said two or three NCState's Dlineman in addition to Chubb should be drafted this spring. 

 

I think NFL.com player profiles list a few DTs from NCState and gave them mid round grades.

 

Most colleges don't have that many good players along a line at any one time, so that's the basis for my using "stacked".

 

[shasta519]

20 minutes ago, DougDew said:

As you explained it, we know coverage was not an elite skill for Hooker, and you say coverage is not one of Geathers strong points.

 

So in the modern NFL, how do we get coverage ability from the safeties we have?    Seems like a need to me.

 

If we're going more zone, it reduces that need partially.

 

That's true...it will depend on the coverages they run. 

[Finball]

 

[DougDew]

Looks like his combine.  Ran straight very quickly and has a nice inside rush.  Took a while to get his body around the corner when he took the long way.

[loudnproudcolt]

I don't think after the trade today, Giants trading JPP to Tampa Bay, we will have no chance at Chubb. The Giants are going to draft him. Gettelman wants a bluechip player instead of trading out, and although they still may go QB, I think after the trade today it signals Chubb is there guy.

 

I think it also means that at #6, we are going to be in a tough situation unless Denver goes QB. If Cleveland goes Barkley, which they will I believe, and Denver takes Nelson, there is a good chance with Mayfield left someone trys to move up, and with all the blue chips gone, I would not mind trading with Buffalo depending on what they give us. Arizona and Miami are also going to be interested, but it depends on what Denver does. If they go QB we go Nelson.

 

Prisco just came out with a draft and had Arizona moving up to our spot and the compensation was their 2nd and 3rd this year, because it fit the value chart. I don't know what he was smoking. Jets gave up 3 seconds for 3 spots. You think we would give up 9 spots for a second and third. Try a second, third, and a first next year at least.

 

As far as a trade I would only want to go back as far as Buffalo since we would have a chance at Smith, Edwards, James, or Fitzpatrick. Still all bluechips. James as our enforcer with Hooker roaming back there would be a nice tandem, but we also really need a MLB who can cover.

[csmopar]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000922649/article/potential-no-2-pick-giants-to-host-bradley-chubb

 

doubt chubb is there at 6

[BOTT]

chubb will be a good pass rusher, but I'm not sold on him being a dominant pass rusher.

[Alex22]

1 minute ago, BOTT said:

chubb will be a good pass rusher, but I'm not sold on him being a dominant pass rusher.

 

Absolutely