Giants Trade Pierre-Paul to Bucs [Merge]

[krunk]

4 minutes ago, stitches said:

The worst case scenario would be:

 

1. Browns - Darnold

2. Giants - Chubb

3. Jets - Rosen

4. Bills(trade up with Browns) - Josh Allen or Mayfield

5. Broncos - Nelson

6. Colts ????????

 

Eliminates our top 2 options in Chubb and Nelson and eliminates the only clearcut trade back opportunity with the Bills. Yuk! 

I'd go Edmunds or Barkley.

[dgambill]

3 minutes ago, stitches said:

The worst case scenario would be:

 

1. Browns - Darnold

2. Giants - Chubb

3. Jets - Rosen

4. Bills(trade up with Browns) - Josh Allen or Mayfield

5. Broncos - Nelson

6. Colts ????????

 

Eliminates our top 2 options in Chubb and Nelson and eliminates the only clearcut trade back opportunity with the Bills. Yuk! And it's not really that unrealistic. I can absolutely see something like this happening. 

If that's the case I take Barkley. I'm fine with Barkley. He wasn't my first choice but he is an elite player either way. The worst case scenario is

1. Browns-Darnold

2. Giants-Chubb

3. Jets-Rosen

4. Browns-Barkley

5. Broncos-Nelson

6. Colts-???

If that was the case Allen and Mayfield would be there and someone would likely come up and want them but as far as the players I would think the Colts covet most would be off the board. I would think a trade back would be our first option.

[stitches]

For whatever it's worth here are the most popular(upvoted) comments on the Giants reddit. They know their team, their cap situation and their stars situation better than us:

 

Quote

Moving JPP clears money for Collins and Odell. This move and cutting Eli after this season clears about 35 million. I am convinced more than ever they are picking a QB 

 

Quote

They didn't trade JPP to draft Chubb. He was going to get cut next season anyway. Now we have cap space next year to sign LC and OBJ next year. That's why they did it.

 

Quote

This appears to be more indication that we're moving to a 34 base. Thanks for 2011 JPP! Ill never forget when the patriots practiced with their DL holding up paddles because they were so afraid of you.

 

Quote

 

ITT: People freaking out because they don't understand how any of this works.

This is to create space in 2019, not 2018. This entire sub has agreed the contract was way too big and would have been nothing but a thorn in our side moving forward, especially with JPP being a shell of his 2011 self. How much longer were we going to wait for JPP to avg 1 sack/game again? His contract was ridiculous.

This is a great move. Just because there's only a small amount of relief this year doesn't make it a bad move. We got a 3rd round pick out of it. How else is a GM supposed to fix a team without having draft capital?

It's amazing how many people choose to freak out and +/complain instead of doing 5 minutes of research.

 

 

 

Some think Chubb might be an option if they trade down to 5 ahead of us. 

[krunk]

5 minutes ago, dgambill said:

If that's the case I take Barkley. I'm fine with Barkley. He wasn't my first choice but he is an elite player either way. The worst case scenario is

1. Browns-Darnold

2. Giants-Chubb

3. Jets-Rosen

4. Browns-Barkley

5. Broncos-Nelson

6. Colts-???

If that was the case Allen and Mayfield would be there and someone would likely come up and want them but as far as the players I would think the Colts covet most would be off the board. I would think a trade back would be our first option.

I'd go Edmunds most likely.  Trade back is another option of course.

[krunk]

1 minute ago, stitches said:

For whatever it's worth here are the most popular(upvoted) comments on the Giants reddit. They know their team, their cap situation and their stars situation better than us:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some think Chubb might be an option if they trade down to 5 ahead of us. 

Good to see how they view it.   What they are saying and the 3-4 D issue is making me feel that may actually be the case and they are still likely on for a QB.  I hope so!

[stitches]

3 minutes ago, krunk said:

I'd go Edmunds most likely.  Trade back is another option of course.

Yah, in this case I would favor the trade back option and I would be targeting the Bills(or Miami) 2019 first round pick. 

[coltsfansince65]

17 minutes ago, stitches said:

The worst case scenario would be:

 

1. Browns - Darnold

2. Giants - Chubb

3. Jets - Rosen

4. Bills(trade up with Browns) - Josh Allen or Mayfield

5. Broncos - Nelson

6. Colts ????????

 

Eliminates our top 2 options in Chubb and Nelson and eliminates the only clearcut trade back opportunity with the Bills. Yuk! And it's not really that unrealistic. I can absolutely see something like this happening. 

Barkley perhaps..............

[Coffeedrinker]

3 hours ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

I still think the Giants are going QB. Even their fans don't think this means they're drafting Chubb.

They think this is just a cap saving move, he was on a terrible contract, to make space for re-signing Collins and OBJ. Plus they're switching to a 3-4, not exactly Chubb's best fit. Not to mention the Giants brass has seemingly been courting Josh Rosen pretty hard.

That makes sense.  I could see the Giants taking Rosen (he is the best QB in the draft IMO.

 

I could also see the Giants taking Barkley.  A RB like Barkley could add 3 years to Manning's career and give them plenty of time to find a QB.

[stitches]

Just now, coltsfansince65 said:

Barkley perhaps..............

Probably... still not huge fan of drafting a RB this high. 

[coltsfansince65]

2 minutes ago, stitches said:

Probably... still not huge fan of drafting a RB this high. 

I'm not either but if the concensus best player in the draft is there at 6..................................

[stitches]

Here's more opinions from another thread in the Giants reddit discussing the impact of the trade on the draft:

 

Quote

Think it makes it less likely we’re going with a “win now” approach and Saquon if we’re willing to take on $15 mil in dead money this year to clear up space for the future. Also need it for Odell’s future monster contract.

 

Quote

Take Kemoko Turay in round 3/4

 

Quote

Would Josh Sweat be good in round 2?

 

Quote

This trade has nothing to do with the draft.

 

[Fisticuffs111]

16 minutes ago, stitches said:

For whatever it's worth here are the most popular(upvoted) comments on the Giants reddit. They know their team, their cap situation and their stars situation better than us:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some think Chubb might be an option if they trade down to 5 ahead of us. 

Yup, first thing I did was go to the Giants subreddit and it eased my worries of them taking Chubb pretty quickly. Or at the very least, that this JPP trade wasn't indicative of them taking Chubb. They need space for Collins and OBJ.

I still think the Browns could take him at #4 but if I were them I'd be trying to trade back.

[stitches]

4 minutes ago, coltsfansince65 said:

I'm not either but if the concensus best player in the draft is there at 6..................................

He could be the best player and still not give us good enough value to be drafted this high. 

[dgambill]

15 minutes ago, krunk said:

I'd go Edmunds most likely.  Trade back is another option of course.

Nothing wrong with that. I do think Barkley is a special player...at 6 there aren't many more of that caliber that would still be there. It's a lot of speculation....at least draft night will have some excitement now. I was looking forward to day 2 but now day 1 definitely will have me intrigued.

[krunk]

1 minute ago, dgambill said:

Nothing wrong with that. I do think Barkley is a special player...at 6 there aren't many more of that caliber that would still be there. It's a lot of speculation....at least draft night will have some excitement now. I was looking forward to day 2 but now day 1 definitely will have me intrigued.

I'd be good with Barkley too if he was on the board, but I think the scenario you gave indicated he got drafted before us.

[dgambill]

13 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

That makes sense.  I could see the Giants taking Rosen (he is the best QB in the draft IMO.

 

I could also see the Giants taking Barkley.  A RB like Barkley could add 3 years to Manning's career and give them plenty of time to find a QB.

Yep. Eli is not washed up. He isn't throwing the ball with no zip like Peyton at the end. Sure he has played poorly the last couple years but that OL was probably the worst in football. And last year he was throwing mostly to practice squad scrubs when EBJ, Shepard, and Marshall all went down early. They couldn't run the ball and he was getting creamed. If they shore some things up he can be good enough. Not great but good enough to have them back in the playoff hunt.

[dgambill]

37 minutes ago, stitches said:

The worst case scenario would be:

 

1. Browns - Darnold

2. Giants - Chubb

3. Jets - Rosen

4. Bills(trade up with Browns) - Josh Allen or Mayfield

5. Broncos - Nelson

6. Colts ????????

 

Eliminates our top 2 options in Chubb and Nelson and eliminates the only clearcut trade back opportunity with the Bills. Yuk! And it's not really that unrealistic. I can absolutely see something like this happening. 

 

5 minutes ago, krunk said:

I'd be good with Barkley too if he was on the board, but I think the scenario you gave indicated he got drafted before us.

My post was the worst possible scenario imo. Yes Chubb, Nelson, and Barkley all off the board. I was saying in stiches post above that isn't the worst scenario in my book. I would take Barkley.

[shasta519]

35 minutes ago, stitches said:

The worst case scenario would be:

 

1. Browns - Darnold

2. Giants - Chubb

3. Jets - Rosen

4. Bills(trade up with Browns) - Josh Allen or Mayfield

5. Broncos - Nelson

6. Colts ????????

 

Eliminates our top 2 options in Chubb and Nelson and eliminates the only clearcut trade back opportunity with the Bills. Yuk! And it's not really that unrealistic. I can absolutely see something like this happening. 

 

Interesting. I don't see the Browns passing on Barkley. But if they did this trade with BUF, they could be a candidate to trade back up to get Barkley. Toss a couple day two picks to the Colts and everyone wins.  

[shasta519]

35 minutes ago, krunk said:

I'd go Edmunds or Barkley.

 

I would sell Barkley to the highest bidder...likely CLE.

[coltsfansince65]

15 minutes ago, stitches said:

He could be the best player and still not give us good enough value to be drafted this high. 

I'm not crazy about taking a RB in the 1st round either. Him being there at 6 might also make our spot more valuable for another possible trade back.

 

I do think having Barkley in our backfield can make a tremendous difference in our offense however.

[shasta519]

10 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Yep. Eli is not washed up. He isn't throwing the ball with no zip like Peyton at the end. Sure he has played poorly the last couple years but that OL was probably the worst in football. And last year he was throwing mostly to practice squad scrubs when EBJ, Shepard, and Marshall all went down early. They couldn't run the ball and he was getting creamed. If they shore some things up he can be good enough. Not great but good enough to have them back in the playoff hunt.

 

I don't think they will be able to afford carrying Eli on the cap after next season though. His cap hits for 2019 and 2020 are $22.2M and $23.2M. And they have big extensions coming up...not to mention they have added a couple of big contracts this offseason. I am sure they could make the necessary moves, but why would they want to do that to accomodate a 38-39 year-old non-elite QB. 

 

Eli would likely have to drastically restructure his contract to make it work...and I don't see why he would do that.

 

But releasing Eli after next season saves $17M in cap space, which they will absolutely need going forward. 

 

I just don't see who they pass on this opportunity to draft a franchise QB...especially with their financial situation. And I just don't see how paying a RB ~$8M/year (which is approximately what the #2 pick will cost) fits into their long-term plan. But we will see what happens.

[Archer]

2 hours ago, Dirty Mudflaps said:

Size is it I think.  I don't see any history of injury or off field issues.  He flipped from UCLA to Georgia in commitments, but most kids do these days - change their minds, I mean.  The "knock" on him is he is undersized, and the quote is, "...you'd love to play him on the inside but he may have to slide to WILL." 

No, i mean i saw a published mock draft recently (might have been walterfootball) that moved him down to # 22 or so and said he falls due to recent medical red flag ala Foster last year...

[Virtuoso80]

 

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, dgambill said:

He was drafted 13th. Last year the #1 pick was Myles Garrett...an edge rusher. Denver sucked because their OL and QB were putrid....plus their defense suffered because they couldn't stop the run. Look I'm not trying to argue...I just differ in opinion. Edge Rusher is still the premier position on defense. My humble opinion and I think there are plenty of information out there to support it.

For a top 10 pick, I'd rather have Warren Sapp than Von Miller, so I tend to not see the edge rusher the same way.

 

I think when both Philly and Denver had very good defenses they had very good DT.s.  I think Derek Wolfe was with Denver and the Philly player I can't recall at the moment.

 

The player CB had is eye on this FA was Autry, an interior rusher.  Maybe Chubb would make a nice compliment but I think active DTs are starting to gain ground on edge rushers as far as being important pieces of a defense, not that Autry is that guy right now.

[dgambill]

9 minutes ago, DougDew said:

For a top 10 pick, I'd rather have Warren Sapp than Von Miller, so I tend to not see the edge rusher the same way.

 

I think when both Philly and Denver had very good defenses they had very good DT.s.  I think Derek Wolfe was with Denver and the Philly player I can't recall at the moment.

 

The player CB had is eye on this FA was Autry, an interior rusher.  Maybe Chubb would make a nice compliment but I think active DTs are starting to gain ground on edge rushers as far as being important pieces of a defense, not that Autry is that guy right now.

I think your thinking of Fletcher Cox for Philly. He is a very good player for sure. I think Malik Jackson was the bigger interior presence for Denver than Wolfe but overall it was Miller and Ware that was having a party at the qb against Brady and Cam. A couple years before Ware got there and when Miller was hurt you saw no pass rush allowed Russell Wilson to destroy the Broncos. I've got no problems with a terror from the interior. Sure that's fine. Can't go wrong with a Warren Sapp......those types of DTs are very very very hard to find....even more so than edge rushers in my opinion. Maybe Suh and Donald are the last two guys of that ilk that are around. Its just very very difficult to find an interior DL that can do what you are suggesting. Just a handful over the past 25 years are the ilk of Reggie White, Warren Sapp etc....and they are in the HOF. If there is one in this draft then we should try to land him....I do like Taven Bryan and hope he could last to us in the second round....but he is the best pass rushing DT in this draft and he isn't projected to go in the top 10 or anything....so I think the NFL is a little slower to adopt your view point on this. I like Autry too...he can play both edge and interior so he is versatile....I think he was the answer to us moving on from Hankins honestly but I'm not thinking (as you said) he is the answer to our pass rush.

[Reboot]

24 minutes ago, Archer said:

No, i mean i saw a published mock draft recently (might have been walterfootball) that moved him down to # 22 or so and said he falls due to recent medical red flag ala Foster last year...

I understood you - and you're right, it was Tony Pauline on Waltersfootball.com who red flagged him, dropped him 10 spots.  He does have a history of nagging injuries - heck, he cut his combine short with hamstring tightness.  And he tore a pectoral weightlifting as a sophomore.  And the reason he claims he didn't lift at the combine was due to a shoulder injury from the previous February, which had fully healed, but he didn't want to put up lift numbers without being at full strength.  So he opted out.  So there is something there - undersized and at the least a series of nagging injuries could be off-putting to some. 

[jameszeigler834]

1 hour ago, stitches said:

The worst case scenario would be:

 

1. Browns - Darnold

2. Giants - Chubb

3. Jets - Rosen

4. Bills(trade up with Browns) - Josh Allen or Mayfield

5. Broncos - Nelson

6. Colts ????????

 

Eliminates our top 2 options in Chubb and Nelson and eliminates the only clearcut trade back opportunity with the Bills. Yuk! And it's not really that unrealistic. I can absolutely see something like this happening. 

That would put Barkley right at our pick now I know many of you say wait to draft a running back but none of the other running back's in this draft or in the last 10 or so years are in the same league as this guy if for whatever reason he lasts that long then we have to pull the trigger that guy would be a major building block and a guy that would help Luck or Brissett day one. So if he is there then he has to be the selection just like if Chubb or Nelson are there they have to be the selection.

[Coltsman1788]

Now looks like there is a possibility that Chubb, Barkley and Nelson all go before the Colts pick at six.  Possible trade down scenario unless Ballard is targeting another player at 6 that we are not expecting.

[buccolts]

3 minutes ago, Coltsman1788 said:

Now looks like there is a possibility that Chubb, Barkley and Nelson all go before the Colts pick at six.  Possible trade down scenario unless Ballard is targeting another player at 6 that we are not expecting.

 

I'm certain Ballard isn't as stuck on the top 3 guys, as we are.

He pretty much said as much by making the trade, and mentioning the OL talent in rounds 2 - 4.

[Finball]

36 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I think your thinking of Fletcher Cox for Philly. He is a very good player for sure. I think Malik Jackson was the bigger interior presence for Denver than Wolfe but overall it was Miller and Ware that was having a party at the qb against Brady and Cam. A couple years before Ware got there and when Miller was hurt you saw no pass rush allowed Russell Wilson to destroy the Broncos.

 

Not to say edge rushing isn't important but we've seen what just edge pressure does for the Broncos when they go against the Pats. Brady steps up in the pocket and makes the throw. Malik Jackson, and Derek Wolfe to lesser extent, were able to push the pocket so there was no pocket to step up into, allowing Von and Ware to bend the corner just enough to get the sack /create pressure. Jackson and Wolfe were 2nd year players and hadn't developed yet into the beasts what they were in 2015.

[iuswingman]

1) Browns - QB

2) Giants - QB

3) Jets - QB

4) Browns - Non-QB (probably Barkley)

5) Denver - Non-QB (probably Nelson)

6) Colts

 

I would guess one of Nelson, Chubb or Barkley will be available when we pick (assuming those are the top 3 choices).

[DougDew]

48 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I think your thinking of Fletcher Cox for Philly. He is a very good player for sure. I think Malik Jackson was the bigger interior presence for Denver than Wolfe but overall it was Miller and Ware that was having a party at the qb against Brady and Cam. A couple years before Ware got there and when Miller was hurt you saw no pass rush allowed Russell Wilson to destroy the Broncos. I've got no problems with a terror from the interior. Sure that's fine. Can't go wrong with a Warren Sapp......those types of DTs are very very very hard to find....even more so than edge rushers in my opinion. Maybe Suh and Donald are the last two guys of that ilk that are around. Its just very very difficult to find an interior DL that can do what you are suggesting. Just a handful over the past 25 years are the ilk of Reggie White, Warren Sapp etc....and they are in the HOF. If there is one in this draft then we should try to land him....I do like Taven Bryan and hope he could last to us in the second round....but he is the best pass rushing DT in this draft and he isn't projected to go in the top 10 or anything....so I think the NFL is a little slower to adopt your view point on this. I like Autry too...he can play both edge and interior so he is versatile....I think he was the answer to us moving on from Hankins honestly but I'm not thinking (as you said) he is the answer to our pass rush.

Yeah, I think Cox is the stud of that defense. 

 

I saw all of those years with Freeney and Mathis getting gassed at the ends of playoff games and never getting close to the QB when it mattered.  Their skill seemed to go to waste.  Stats are great, but if they come early in games and against an undermatched Oline in the regular season, they don't mean as much.

 

I think playoff caliber O's these days release the ball quicker and it simply takes too much time for an edge to run around the T.  Same principle behind my concern about a "ball hawking" FS.  The ball is thrown and caught before the edges and FSs even come into play.

[iuswingman]

so pretty much get the best LBers you can for the defense.

[richard pallo]

3 hours ago, krunk said:

What kind of capital does Miami have to move up?

I was thinking their 1st. this year, their 3rd this year. and RT Juwan James who would immediately give us a young starting RT. and also help with their cap issue, and a pick next year best case their 1st.   Ballard can figure that out.  James would be an instant starter as should be their 1st. pick.  A twofer in Rd.1. 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

6 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I disagree, almost 100% see Barkley going to the Browns at 4.

 

ALMOST But NOT 100%....so there is a chance !!!! 

[DougDew]

27 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I was thinking their 1st. this year, their 3rd this year. and RT Juwan James who would immediately give us a young starting RT. and also help with their cap issue, and a pick next year best case their 1st.   Ballard can figure that out.  James would be an instant starter as should be their 1st. pick.  A twofer in Rd.1. 

Miami is picking 11, I believe.  

 

Personally, I think I'd want another draft pick, like a 4th this year.

 

#6 for RT James, the #11 (maybe Roquan Smith), 3rd rounder, 4th rounder, and 3rd rounder next year would probably be a fair price for them to get their QB.  Especially if it also relieves some cap for them.

 

Would you give up Chubb for that?

 

Including the Jets trade and our own picks, we'd have pick #11, a new RT, three 2nds, two 3rds, two 4ths this year, and two 2nds and two 3rds next year.

[southwest1]

4 hours ago, TdungyW/12 said:

I don’t know what they are thinking .... maybe they are trying to “show” they want to win but know they won’t ... so they stick with Eli, draft Chubb and expect to be in the top 1-3 next draft and they like an upcoming QB?

If both the Colts & Giants have a down yr, that's gonna be a tough pill for me to swallow Td12. I know the Manning family is considered NFL royalty & I'm cool with that. However, it doesn't mean Eli can call his retirement shot. All QBs good ones, great ones, & even lousy ones get judged every time they set foot on a field. 

 

Any other QB not Archie Manning's son would have been replaced by now. Yeah, I know Eli was benched last yr which ended his starting streak but poor performance doesn't warrant a pass. I don't care how famous a QB is. 

 

What is Eli 37 now? Big Blue is playing with fire & gonna get burned. Nate Soldier is an upgrade from Flowers sure, but NY is still gonna struggle. I can't believe the Mara Family refuses to draft Eli's heir apparent. Talk about short sided. Wow. 

[TdungyW/12]

19 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

If both the Colts & Giants have a down yr, that's gonna be a tough pill for me to swallow Td12. I know the Manning family is considered NFL royalty & I'm cool with that. However, it doesn't mean Eli can call his retirement shot. All QBs good ones, great ones, & even lousy ones get judged every time they set foot on a field. 

 

Any other QB not Archie Manning's son would have been replaced by now. Yeah, I know Eli was benched last yr which ended his starting streak but poor performance doesn't warrant a pass. I don't care how famous a QB is. 

 

What is Eli 37 now? Big Blue is playing with fire & gonna get burned. Nate Soldier is an upgrade from Flowers sure, but NY is still gonna struggle. I can't believe the Mara Family refuses to draft Eli's heir apparent. Talk about short sided. Wow. 

I don’t think colts have a down season .... with a healthy Luck and healthy secondary plus good drafts and we can get Nelson Or Chubb I think we are 10-11 wins again. 

 

Giants on on the other hand if they don’t draft Eli’s replacement will be hurting for a while when he retires. 

[richard pallo]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

Miami is picking 11, I believe.  

 

Personally, I think I'd want another draft pick, like a 4th this year.

 

#6 for RT James, the #11 (maybe Roquan Smith), 3rd rounder, 4th rounder, and 3rd rounder next year would probably be a fair price for them to get their QB.  Especially if it also relieves some cap for them.

 

Would you give up Chubb for that?

 

Including the Jets trade and our own picks, we'd have pick #11, a new RT, three 2nds, two 3rds, two 4ths this year, and two 2nds and two 3rds next year.

I think I would probably prefer their 2nd. rd pick next year vs. their 3rd and a 4th this year.  The extra 4th. would give us another pick to use to move further up though.  I think for the most part the first 3 rounds is where you find you're long term keepers and that is what I am looking for.  I would give up Chubb for that. He's a great player no doubt but the appeal of acquiring more high rd. picks this year and next year is too much to pass up for me.  And we are still at 11.   

[csmopar]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000922649/article/potential-no-2-pick-giants-to-host-bradley-chubb

 

just going to leave this here