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Former Saints Dc Williams Faces "bounty" Punishment (((((Merge)))))


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I have always wanted defensive players to deliver hard legal hits to opposing players to deliver a message and also to intimidate. Sometimes with my youth players this has slowed reactions from opposing players but I have never wanted to knock an opposing player out of the game because you can do permanent damage, even paralyze or kill players. I have always wanted the other teams best players on the field because I have felt you need to beat the best to be the best. If you take opposing players out of the game there is always doubt if you could have won. Bounties have been payed all the way down to youth football. I would sit my kids if I knew their parents paid bounties because it can take away from the team concept.

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Anyone else hear Darren Sharper lie like a lying liar? Apparently one of Williams' captains (Sharper) had no knowledge of this bounty, and wholly denies that this occurred.

Be a man, you liar.

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My problem with this kind of thing is the fact all it does is foster an environment that encourages dirty hits. When money is put on the table players are going to do all they can to get that money and to some that might even mean lowering themselves to take cheap shots on players.

I have no problem with a player getting knocked out of the game as long as it is a clean hit. When Ray Lewis put that hit on Mendenhall and it broke his collar bone I had no problem with the hit. I cheered the big hit because it was a good clean hit and it sucked that Mendenhall got hurt, but that is part of the risk of the game.

Now a bounty system creates a situation like in the NFC title game against the Vikings where the hits keep getting later and dirtier. Favre hands the ball off and some DE takes a pot shot at him because there was a bounty on Favre's head.

I actually think the NFL is going to have to come down really hard on this. The NFL is promoting player safety and trying to be a leader in concussions. If they do not come down hard on this the public perception of the NFL and its concerns with safety could be flushed down the toilet. I would not be surprised if we see coaches suspended this time around.

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I understand that many of the hits were legal so it would be difficult to identify intent in every case, however if they can confirm that they reward system was in place that would be enough IMO to levy some historic penalties! IF they can prove that this system was rewarding players for intentionally trying and succeeding in some cases to hurt other players, then anyone involved should be banished from the game for life.

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I'm so glad to see mostly "disgust" on this thread.. as I am also disgusted by this.. Grolic on M&M was acting as if this is no big deal and just the "way the game" is and the "wording" is tripping people up and making them think this is a bad thing... NO, it is a bad thing...

1) the players are already paid a "salary" to do their job, whether it's tackle, block, stop a run, catch a ball..whatever, they are paid for their JOB!

2) special payment for specific performance is not permitted per the NFL.. so rule breaking is problem number 1

3) problem number 2 it ENCOURAGES dirty play.. there is no way Grolic or anyone else can make be believe that this is payment only for "exceptional play" or "a good hit" ...no, this is intended to encourage intentional injury, which is absolutely unacceptable.

This is not a good example to set for kids leaning this or any other sport.

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My problem with this kind of thing is the fact all it does is foster an environment that encourages dirty hits. When money is put on the table players are going to do all they can to get that money and to some that might even mean lowering themselves to take cheap shots on players.

I have no problem with a player getting knocked out of the game as long as it is a clean hit. When Ray Lewis put that hit on Mendenhall and it broke his collar bone I had no problem with the hit. I cheered the big hit because it was a good clean hit and it sucked that Mendenhall got hurt, but that is part of the risk of the game.

Now a bounty system creates a situation like in the NFC title game against the Vikings where the hits keep getting later and dirtier. Favre hands the ball off and some DE takes a pot shot at him because there was a bounty on Favre's head.

I actually think the NFL is going to have to come down really hard on this. The NFL is promoting player safety and trying to be a leader in concussions. If they do not come down hard on this the public perception of the NFL and its concerns with safety could be flushed down the toilet. I would not be surprised if we see coaches suspended this time around.

That's the problem with this whole thing, everyone would wonder, well "was that a clean hit" if Lewis was handed $2000 for it, ya know? PS,love your signature tags

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i have skimmed through the thread and have not read all of the post, so i maybe duplicating someone posts . . .

for me one of my biggest pet peeves about sports is the act of injuring an opponent or an opponents player such that one gets the advantage of not having that player/opponent on the field of play during the game . . . is it one thing to have two combatents collide and there is an unexpected injury as the a result of the collision - which is simply just luck of the draw . . . but is is a completely different thing if one tries to place a hit such that the result is an injury to the opponent to knock him/her out of the game . . . and frankly it does not matter to me if it is a bounty type thing as in the instant matter, a non financial advocation by ones coach, or an act by the individual player . . . it is all the same to me, an opponent taking an action to intentionally injury another combatent to gain an unfair advantage . . .

I will always remember the 1972 Summit Series between the USSR and Canada when in Game 6 (of 8) Bobby Clarke chased Valeri Kharlamov into the zone, road both hands to the bud end of his stick and took a two handed baseball swing at Kharlamov's angle , breaking it . . . Kharlamov was Russa's best player and was not the same after that and it did effect the series . . . it was said later that assistent coach John Ferguson called Clarke to the bench and said "i think he {Kharlamov} needs a tap in the ankle" whether he was told or Clarke did it on his own it really does not matter, you had a mano mano "friendly" series for the first time between two great hockey powers and Canada could not except the fact that they might loose the series . . .and as many of the Russian said afterwards, when things did not go the Canadians way they "gooned it up" . . . it is just too bad it was a great series regardless . . . but it was not fair or just that a player will intentionally take out another player just to gain an advantage . . .

i think the NFL should come down hard on the coach and even to a degree the Saints . . . the NFL needs to set forth a precedent/dont try this or this is what you will get type penalty here . .

also a harsh penatly will be consistant and follow through with the NFL recent policies on players being hit by certian type of hits to avoid injuries . . .

i hope too that with this recent events about actions that result in possible injuries, some of those more ardent opponents to the recent rule changes on hits will back off a little . . . an injury is a injury, and really does not matter how it happens, be it an intentional act, like the instant case and Bobby Clarke's hit reference above, or a hit that is highly likely to result in an injury intentional or not . . .

my two cents for now . . . got a client coming in in a few minutes

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Indy Star

Colts QB Peyton Manning's injury has link to 'BountyGate' As Per Dungy

& Prior to the Colts facing the Saints in Super Bowl XLIV after the 2009 season,

Williams caused a stir with comments to a Nashville radio station. The primary objective of the Saints' defense, he said, was to hit Manning as often as possible. He referred to them as "remember me'' hits.

"You hope he doesn't get back up and play again,'' Williams said. "You kill the head, and the body will die. You hit the quarterback, and the whole team feels it.''

http://bleacherreport.com/tb/bfrgy?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=indianapolis-colts

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I think a lot of you are being a little soft on Williams. What's with all of this talk of suspensions? Black list him and suspend and fine the players that received payment. People that pay out for injuries or accept payment for said injuries are despicable. Outside of Sports this would be putting a "hit" out on somebody mafia style. The fact that it is a sport is the only reason why they shouldn't be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. However, they should be face the maximum penalties that the league can deal out.

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I think a lot of you are being a little soft on Williams. What's with all of this talk of suspensions? Black list him and suspend and fine the players that received payment. People that pay out for injuries or accept payment for said injuries are despicable. Outside of Sports this would be putting a "hit" out on somebody mafia style. The fact that it is a sport is the only reason why they shouldn't be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. However, they should be face the maximum penalties that the league can deal out.

I read on PFT some Lawyers and the IRS may get involved because remember the IRS wants to see that money. Messing with the federal government is a bad bad idea. . .

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The penalties handed down by Roger Goodell on the New Orleans Saints & former DC Gregg Williams is contingent upon how elaborately detailed the "bounty payment" records are, how far back they go, what the exact sales pitch for this financial compensation, who will testify candidly & completely to the NFL Commissioner, & if fear of this story breaking prompted Gregg Williams to seek refuge in St. Louis with new head coach Jeff Fisher.

No 2009 Vince Lombardi Trophy will ever be forfeited to Indianapolis. Coaches & their staffs must be held to a higher standard of character than players per say. Gregg Williams must be severely punished here going back to his Redskins days & the "roughing the passer" penalty on Peyton Manning that was never called on the field provided financial records prove that that is. It's a miracle Peyton's body didn't snap in half on that play!!!

The Saints defense will be "football is a violent sport." Squeeze Williams by saying if you ever want to coach in the NFL again. Sing like a canary & tell the NFL everything you did in this scandal & turn over any & all records now.

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Indy Star

Colts QB Peyton Manning's injury has link to 'BountyGate' As Per Dungy

& Prior to the Colts facing the Saints in Super Bowl XLIV after the 2009 season,

Williams caused a stir with comments to a Nashville radio station. The primary objective of the Saints' defense, he said, was to hit Manning as often as possible. He referred to them as "remember me'' hits.

"You hope he doesn't get back up and play again,'' Williams said. "You kill the head, and the body will die. You hit the quarterback, and the whole team feels it.''

http://bleacherrepor...ianapolis-colts

Thank you Barry for access to this article. Naturally, every DC in the NFL wants to make the opposing QB feel rattled & uncomfortable, but most DC's don't openly advocate field general decapitation. Sad very sad.

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former Saints tackle Kyle Turley wants answers from another source -- quarterback

Drew Brees.

Turley said Monday that he wants Brees to disclose his level of awareness of the Saints' program, and the NFL should consider punishing the 2011 Offensive Player of the Year.

"If you're going to suspend guys like Gregg Williams, then you have to suspend ... all these guys who are anteing up money," Turley told

Yahoo! Sports Radio.

"And then you're going to really have to take a hard look at suspending Drew

Brees. Because I want to know how much he knew. He's a representative for the union and for their health and safety."

Brees is a vice president of the NFL Players Association Executive Committee and former player representative.

Turley played for the Saints from 1998 to 2003 Having shown signs of serious head trauma since he left the league,

Turley was offended by players being rewarded for inflicting injuries.

"That's what I've been talking about all these years, as an active player and now retired," Turley said.

"Why are there so many problems with guys from the NFL in their health, from physical to mental, the way guys leave the game?

It's because of attitudes like this."

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Favre happy 'the truth comes out' on Saints' practices

Brett Favre wasn't "ticked" when Gregg Williams' illegal "bounty" program was exposed by the NFL,

but he's happy the bill has come due for the Saints.

but he's happy the bill has come due for the Saints.

The only thing that really tickes me off about the whole thing is we lost the game. That's the thing about that day that still bothers me. And that's the way it goes. If they wanted me to testify in court about this, they'd be calling the wrong guy."

Favre took a nasty beating in the 31-28 overtime loss, and the NFL's findings help explain why.

"Now, in that game there were some plays that, I don't want to say were odd, but I'd throw the ball and whack, on every play. Hand it off, whack. Over and over. Some were so blatant. I hand the ball to

Percy Harvin early and got drilled right in the chin. They flagged that one at least."

Favre is referring to a hit early in the game in which New Orleans defensive lineman Bobby McCray popped the quarterback in the chin. The play drew a 15-yard unnecessary-roughness penalty and an eventual fine. Favre also was subjected to a pile-driving tackle by defensive lineman

Anthony Hargrove (another 15-yard foul and fine) and a brutal high-low takedown by McCray and defensive tackle Remi Ayodele (which drew, almost inexplicably, no flag).

Favre believed he broke his ankle on the high-low play. "I felt a lot of crunching in there," he said.

"I've always been friends with (former Saints safety) Darren Sharper, and he came in a couple times and popped me hard," Favre told King about his former Packers teammate. "I remember saying, 'What THE heck you doing, Sharp?'

I felt there should have been more calls against the Saints. I thought some of their guys should have been fined more."

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Here's something that I find peculiar in this whole mess;

This incentive program is being reported as encouragement to make illegal hits that result in injury to opposing players. The pay-outs I'm hearing are in the $1,500 to $2,000 range.

The NFL fines for illegal hits range anywhere from 10 to 20 times that amount, not including suspensions withholding. So what is it exactly that Williams was asking of his players and how do we navigate around the flawed logic here?

It sounds to me as if he wasn't asking them to make illegal hits. So how does a player overtly attempt to injure another player without doing so illegally, since the bounty is a fraction of the ensuing fine?

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the saddest part is these types of players are helping to ruin the game by causing the need for new hit rules and more restrictions on defense.. if the game were played right and fair in the first place, with skill and good plays there would be no need to hurt other players just to get the competition out of the game... What a horrible example for kids everywhere, in any sport!

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Here's something that I find peculiar in this whole mess;

This incentive program is being reported as encouragement to make illegal hits that result in injury to opposing players. The pay-outs I'm hearing are in the $1,500 to $2,000 range.

The NFL fines for illegal hits range anywhere from 10 to 20 times that amount, not including suspensions withholding. So what is it exactly that Williams was asking of his players and how do we navigate around the flawed logic here?

It sounds to me as if he wasn't asking them to make illegal hits. So how does a player overtly attempt to injure another player without doing so illegally, since the bounty is a fraction of the ensuing fine?

was thinking that and somewhere I posted a quote of 1 player, dont ask me where , paraphrasing now, that he made sure on every hit his momentum was basically kept up threw the follow through and didnt pull back though could of so appeared as part of the play, may have lowered shoulder just a bit when hitting , applied extra spring in his step, just made sure to be in full aggressiveness mode and make em feel, all hits & tackles and wear them out if not able to knock them out but sooner or later if each teammate did it then it added up and eventually could be knocked out with regular hard hit

Fines also increased last few years I believe , not further back with other teams when safety wasn't at the forefront of NFL concerns

I hate to say this , but I know as a kid , I distinctly remember wanting to take out another teams player 1 time, not a friend at all, instead of a mere tackle I would pick up off ground a bit and drive opposing team player into it , & it worked

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Saints defensive linemen Bobby McCray and

Anthony Hargrove accounted for multiple penalties and $25,000 in fines for vicious hits on Favre in that 31-28 overtime win, and, as Favre was helped off the field with a sprained ankle, a fired-up Hargrove jawed with ( Saints ) teammates, proclaiming: "Favre is out of the game! Favre is done! Favre is done!"

King reports that, amid the chaos,

an on-field microphone caught an unidentified Saints defender shouting,

"Pay me my money!"

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IMO the only possible punishment for the organizer of this system is banishment from the game! Anything less than that will be a slap on the wrist!

I agree - this was a criminal behavior. Intentionally assaulting and intent to injure.

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  • 2 weeks later...

What do you think the penalties should be?

Heres what I would do if I was the commish:

1. Ban the DC,Greg Williams for life from any NFL activities & reimbursh all salary from the time of the incident.

2. Suspend HC Payton for 5 years from any coaching/announcing gigs from the NFL & also reimbursh all salary from time of said incidents.As HC, its his responsibility for what goes down on his team.

3. Take away Lombardi trophy Saints won and give it to Colts. Manning will now have 2 rings cementing his Legact as G.O.A.T.

4. Suspend all contract negotiations between Brees & Saints, forbidding Saints from resigning him.

5.Forfeit 1st & 2nd round picks for the next three drafts.

The NFL needs to come down FAST & HARD on Saints for this.

I didn't realy expect #3 & #4 to happen but I'll take the commish rulings on #'s 1,2.and 5.

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I personally can't stand Uncle Rog.

Care to qualify that remark?

It's something that drives me nuts, when people just say "I hate ____" or "That was stupid of ___" without saying why or explaining their remark.

I'll give him credit for shocking the media with these devastating punishments.

What shocked me was reading the Saints fans opinions of this. Overwhelming majority thinks the NFL has it out for them and that this was a crime perpetrated upon them. They're talking about boycotting the NFL by cancelling their Direct TV Sunday ticket lol...

If my team did something egregious like that, I cannot see how I would be so unconscionable to defend it. What a disgusting franchise from top to bottom, management to players to the fans.

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What shocked me was reading the Saints fans opinions of this. Overwhelming majority thinks the NFL has it out for them and that this was a crime perpetrated upon them. They're talking about boycotting the NFL by cancelling their Direct TV Sunday ticket lol...

If my team did something egregious like that, I cannot see how I would be so unconscionable to defend it. What a disgusting franchise from top to bottom, management to players to the fans.

It's Mutiny On The Bounty.

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This precedes the Saints. This is Gregg Williams, who was the DC in Washington that fall afternoon when they hit Manning, late and dirty. He's been teaching this for years. Doesn't deserve to coach football, Period.

This...I was going to post something similar but decided to do a search first as I figured someone would have mentioned this by now. Greg Williams' "bounty system" may ultimately be the reason why Peyton is wearing a Broncos uni today.

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I would like to know why the NFL has not taken away wins from the Saints, including their SB! If it wasnt for intentionally trying to hurt other players, its not too far fetched to think they dont win some of those 'key' games!

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This...I was going to post something similar but decided to do a search first as I figured someone would have mentioned this by now. Greg Williams' "bounty system" may ultimately be the reason why Peyton is wearing a Broncos uni today.

He may very well be one of the reasons why the PM/Luck transfer happened as opposed to another PM/other QB transfer that could of happened which involved a healthier PM staying in Indy till he retired whilst the team trained a lower 1st rounder or 2nd rounder QB . . .

interesting tho regarding the bounty gate system . . . i would not be surprised if some other teams has some type of system like this . . . but I do think that other teams/coaches knew this program was in place . . .

I remember back in 2009 when the Pats played the Saints, and the Saints were beating the Pats and BB took TB out of the game late in the game, and some were surprised about him coming out and perhaps the Pats should of tried harder in the face of such great odds late in the 4th . . .

interestingly, the next day after the game, BB said, in his local radio appearance, that he took Brady out to avoid anyone getting injuried . . . with such very low odds to win and the risk of injuring in the standard football game, it seem to make some sense . . . but reflecting upon that in the light of the bountygate, i do think that BB likely had some knowledge of bounty system and realized that this was not some normal type game and the odds of injury are likely higher than a normal football game . . .

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i feel bad for sean payton's family. apparently him being suspend for a year will cost him 5.8 million

I imagine they'll figure a way to pay the light bill. I just can't feel sorry for the man. What they were doing was arrogant beyond reason. Frankly I'm shocked that this sort of thing didn't spread and become prevalent in the league.

Anyway, he'll do radio shows and the like and he'll make do until he starts raking in millions of dollars again.

Message received I'm sure. His loss is good for the league.

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Indy Star Colts QB Peyton Manning's injury has link to 'BountyGate' As Per Dungy & Prior to the Colts facing the Saints in Super Bowl XLIV after the 2009 season, Williams caused a stir with comments to a Nashville radio station. The primary objective of the Saints' defense, he said, was to hit Manning as often as possible. He referred to them as "remember me'' hits. "You hope he doesn't get back up and play again,'' Williams said. "You kill the head, and the body will die. You hit the quarterback, and the whole team feels it.'' http://bleacherreport.com/tb/bfrgy?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=indianapolis-colts

Long before this Bountygate thing I remembered this hit as many here do. I knew then that they were trying to "take him out". Everyone will have their own opinions on this but I refuse to believe that the HC's of any team that Gregg Williams was DC for didn't know what was going on. Gibbs has said he didn't. BULL!! And Fisher isn't stupid. He knew too, IMO.

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Hey who knows what went on in that onside kick scrum, not that we ever do

I remember one player stepping on one of ours. No one else does so maybe I'm crazy, but I remember being crazy ticked off that flags weren't thrown for that scrum

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He deserves it and so do all the other affiliate saints players/coaches/staff. What else would you expect. So many lawsuites against the NFL right now, it was expected.

Saints fans are delerious. They think the NFL is out to get them and destroy their franchise... conspiracy type stuff.

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