Complete Rebuild

[theanarchist]

It's obviously clear now that this is a complete rebuild. Coach on down. Ballard makes the trade out of the #3 spot to acquire more picks and lets a couple of solid free agents in Melvin and Moncrief walk and cuts our best defensive linemen. In turn he is in the midst of signing more free agents who failed to shine at their first stops: Ebron, Grant, Autry. All three are very ordinary players and none of those three really offer any hope of what could be an impact type career here with the Colts. 

 

Ballard's first draft was, in my opinion, nothing to write home about. Although its hard to judge a  draft after one year it seems to me that his first draft class, which was DB heavy, seems to be very average. It's great to build through the draft, definitely have to grow your own. We need playmakers guys. We need a Dallas Clark, we need a Robert Mathis, we need a Bob Sanders, we need an Edgerrin James. We need a Dwight Freeney, we need a lunch pail type Gary Brackett middle linebacker. We need a true anchor on the line like Tarek Glenn was. We need a Jeff Saturday. We cant get those all at once obviously but we need a couple of those kinds of players this year or its going to be a 2-14 season and if Luck does come back healthy it wont last if we don't. Right now this team lacks so much it's difficult for me to imagine how long its going to take for this team to ever really compete again. I know that in the NFL you can turn around a team in a year. But that isn't going to happen with this team. Its going to take much longer than that.

 

Right now we have 1 healthy playmaker on this team and that player is TY Hilton. Andrew Luck is still a huge question mark and the offensive line that we currently have will get him killed if they don't invest in it heavily. Hooker could eventually be a playmaking centerfielder but is no Bob Sanders, a defensive field general. We literally have no pass rushing threats on this team. You can argue Sheard but in the end he's a solid player that doesn't make another offense game plan for him line they had to for Freeney and Mathis. We don't even have an every down Running back on this team right now. We have a 3rd down back and a short yardage specialist.

 

I hate to be negative but I forsee a long a haul and I sure hope that Ballard is able to put together a better draft than he did his first go aroungd.

 

 

[TdungyW/12]

Just now, theanarchist said:

It's obviously clear now that this is a complete rebuild. Coach on down. Ballard makes the trade out of the #3 spot to acquire more picks and lets a couple of solid free agents in Melvin and Moncrief walk and cuts our best defensive linemen. In turn he is in the midst of signing more free agents who failed to shine at their first stops: Ebron, Grant, Autry. All three are very ordinary players and none of those three really offer any hope of what could be an impact type career here with the Colts. 

 

Ballard's first draft was, in my opinion, nothing to write home about. Although its hard to judge a  draft after one year it seems to me that his first draft class, which was DB heavy, seems to be very average. It's great to build through the draft, definitely have to grow your own. We need playmakers guys. We need a Dallas Clark, we need a Robert Mathis, we need a Bob Sanders, we need an Edgerrin James. We need a Dwight Freeney, we need a lunch pail type Gary Brackett middle linebacker. We need a true anchor on the line like Tarek Glenn was. We need a Jeff Saturday. We cant get those all at once obviously but we need a couple of those kinds of players this year or its going to be a 2-14 season and if Luck does come back healthy it wont last if we don't. Right now this team lacks so much it's difficult for me to imagine how long its going to take for this team to ever really compete again. I know that in the NFL you can turn around a team in a year. But that isn't going to happen with this team. Its going to take much longer than that.

 

Right now we have 1 healthy playmaker on this team and that player is TY Hilton. Andrew Luck is still a huge question mark and the offensive line that we currently have will get him killed if they don't invest in it heavily. Hooker could eventually be a playmaking centerfielder but is no Bob Sanders, a defensive field general. We literally have no pass rushing threats on this team. You can argue Sheard but in the end he's a solid player that doesn't make another offense game plan for him line they had to for Freeney and Mathis. We don't even have an every down Running back on this team right now. We have a 3rd down back and a short yardage specialist.

 

I hate to be negative but I forsee a long a haul and I sure hope that Ballard is able to put together a better draft than he did his first go aroungd.

 

 

I don’t believe it’s a full rebuild .... we have a few key pieces in place .... some coming back from injury and some just added. With this draft and a few more FA pick ups we will be fine. We are building long term ..... and won’t need to blow up like JAX, TEN and HOUS in like 2-3 years.

[P'Son]

Pretty much is a full rebuild.

[theanarchist]

1 minute ago, TdungyW/12 said:

I don’t believe it’s a full rebuild .... we have a few key pieces in place .... some coming back from injury and some just added. With this draft and a few more FA pick ups we will be fine. We are building long term ..... and won’t need to blow up like JAX, TEN and HOUS in like 2-3 years.

By key pieces do you mean a franchise QB coming off of a year and a half rehab of his surgically repaired throwing shoulder? What other key pieces do you mean?

[Jaric]

Not to be rude, but was it not clear before?

 

I mean, we were terrible last year and have an entirely new coaching staff this year.  We have entirely new offensive and defensive schemes and the players that fit those schemes probably aren't the same players that fit the last one (at least on defense for certain).  I'm not real sure what this year could be if not for a full rebuild.

[theanarchist]

2 minutes ago, Jaric said:

Not to be rude, but was it not clear before?

 

I mean, we were terrible last year and have an entirely new coaching staff this year.  We have entirely new offensive and defensive schemes and the players that fit those schemes probably aren't the same players that fit the last one (at least on defense for certain).  I'm not real sure what this year could be if not for a full rebuild.

Point taken

[TdungyW/12]

5 minutes ago, theanarchist said:

By key pieces do you mean a franchise QB coming off of a year and a half rehab of his surgically repaired throwing shoulder? What other key pieces do you mean?

Kelly

hilton

hooker

geathers

luck

 

wilson

WAY better coaching and GM

#6 pick - hopefully Chubb

3 second round picks .... if we hit on 2-3 of of those 4 picks we will be better off then most think. 

 

 

like I said we have some good young talent (base) and a few returning off injuries BUT, that means nothing .... Luck will come back fine despite the negativity on this forum. 

 

[lance_m8]

We knew this the day Ballard was hired you are a year late to the party my friend

[shasta519]

There's only one way this becomes a full rebuild...and we just don't know yet. Unfortunately, I have a feeling it might be.

[Mel Kiper's Hair]

I think Ryan Grant will do more than Moncrief will this year. Although we are in a rebuild I don't think it is as bad as some people think. A healthy Andrew Luck (fingers crossed), hopefully better play calling, a solid draft, and signing some hungry free agents with something to prove will make us better than last year. I think this year our floor will be 6-10 and I think with some good breaks we could go 10-6 and be a wild card team. Maybe it is wishful thinking, but I think we aren't as far away as most people think.

[BOTT]

This can still,be a solid team that is fun to watch. Remember, the biggest move of the offseason was getting rid of Bozo the Clown as coach.

[indyagent17]

1 hour ago, theanarchist said:

It's obviously clear now that this is a complete rebuild. Coach on down. Ballard makes the trade out of the #3 spot to acquire more picks and lets a couple of solid free agents in Melvin and Moncrief walk and cuts our best defensive linemen. In turn he is in the midst of signing more free agents who failed to shine at their first stops: Ebron, Grant, Autry. All three are very ordinary players and none of those three really offer any hope of what could be an impact type career here with the Colts. 

 

Ballard's first draft was, in my opinion, nothing to write home about. Although its hard to judge a  draft after one year it seems to me that his first draft class, which was DB heavy, seems to be very average. It's great to build through the draft, definitely have to grow your own. We need playmakers guys. We need a Dallas Clark, we need a Robert Mathis, we need a Bob Sanders, we need an Edgerrin James. We need a Dwight Freeney, we need a lunch pail type Gary Brackett middle linebacker. We need a true anchor on the line like Tarek Glenn was. We need a Jeff Saturday. We cant get those all at once obviously but we need a couple of those kinds of players this year or its going to be a 2-14 season and if Luck does come back healthy it wont last if we don't. Right now this team lacks so much it's difficult for me to imagine how long its going to take for this team to ever really compete again. I know that in the NFL you can turn around a team in a year. But that isn't going to happen with this team. Its going to take much longer than that.

 

Right now we have 1 healthy playmaker on this team and that player is TY Hilton. Andrew Luck is still a huge question mark and the offensive line that we currently have will get him killed if they don't invest in it heavily. Hooker could eventually be a playmaking centerfielder but is no Bob Sanders, a defensive field general. We literally have no pass rushing threats on this team. You can argue Sheard but in the end he's a solid player that doesn't make another offense game plan for him line they had to for Freeney and Mathis. We don't even have an every down Running back on this team right now. We have a 3rd down back and a short yardage specialist.

 

I hate to be negative but I forsee a long a haul and I sure hope that Ballard is able to put together a better draft than he did his first go aroungd.

 

 

its going to be a rebuilding year for sure. We are signing role players or older players. now that being said it does not mean it has to be a horrible season. Get a strong line in front of Luck get a few key defensive players and it could be special but I have the same gut feeling this will be an average year at best 

[Smonroe]

@theanarchist  Not to be picky but when all but one of your draft picks not only make the team, but all contribute, that’s a decent draft.

 

Agree that it takes more than a year to really evaluate, and that we didn’t exactly have a hard to crack roster.  But I thought it was an excellent draft.  

[Peterk2011]

1 hour ago, theanarchist said:

Ballard's first draft was, in my opinion, nothing to write home about. Although its hard to judge a  draft after one year it seems to me that his first draft class, which was DB heavy, seems to be very average. It's great to build through the draft, definitely have to grow your own. We need playmakers guys. We need a Dallas Clark, we need a Robert Mathis, we need a Bob Sanders, we need an Edgerrin James. We need a Dwight Freeney, we need a lunch pail type Gary Brackett middle linebacker. We need a true anchor on the line like Tarek Glenn was. We need a Jeff Saturday.

 

So after one year you already come to the conclusion that Ballards draft was very average. Because you miss the Robert Mathises, the Jeff Saturdays, the Gary Bracketts. I have to ask you, if you knew that Robert Mathis was a 5th rounder, who didn't start a single game in his first two years?

 

Btw, did you know that Gary Brackett was an undrafted free agent who was 3rd then 2nd string rotational piece for two years before finally becoming the starter in his third season? Did you know that Jeff Saturday was also an undrafted free agent, who was signed by the Ravens, then cut by the Ravens, and he went back selling electrical supplies for a year? Did you know that the Colts signed him the next year off the street, and used him as a backup at center, and as a "next man up" at LG. Did you know that he looked as bad as an off the street ex. udfa can be that year? Did you know that it was his third offseason when he picked his game up, took the starting center spot and never looked back?

 

Be a bit more patient, give these young guys some more time to prove themselves.

[Four2itus]

3 minutes ago, Peterk2011 said:

 

So after one year you already come to the conclusion that Ballards draft was very average. Because you miss the Robert Mathises, the Jeff Saturdays, the Gary Bracketts. I have to ask you, if you knew that Robert Mathis was a 5th rounder, who didn't start a single game in his first two years? And did you know that Gary Brackett was an undrafted free agent who was 3rd then 2nd string rotational piece for two years before finally becoming the starter in his third season? Did you know that Jeff Saturday was also an undrafted free agent, who was signed by the Ravens, then cut by the Ravens, and he went back selling electrical supplies for a year? Did you know that the Colts signed him the next year off the street, and used him as the backup of McKinney, and as a "next man up" at LG. Did you know that he looked as bad as an off the street ex. udfa can be that year, to pick his game up for his third season, take the starting center spot and never look back?

 

Be a bit more patient, give these young guys some more time to prove themselves.

Nicely said. 

[Cynjin]

Isn't  there already a thread for this stuff?  Not sure there needs to be continuous new threads, JMO.

[AZColt11]

Complete rebuild doesn't do this situation justice.  I see this taking at least a few years.  But I'm optimistic.

[crazycolt1]

38 minutes ago, AZColt11 said:

Complete rebuild doesn't do this situation justice.  I see this taking at least a few years.  But I'm optimistic.

Maybe a couple of years but last to first pretty much happens in divisions pretty regular in the NFL.

Even the Giants went to the super bowl with a 10-6 record and beat an undefeated Patriot team in the super bowl.

So saying it will take the Colts several years is way too pre mature.

[theanarchist]

7 hours ago, TdungyW/12 said:

Kelly

hilton

hooker

geathers

luck

 

wilson

WAY better coaching and GM

#6 pick - hopefully Chubb

3 second round picks .... if we hit on 2-3 of of those 4 picks we will be better off then most think. 

 

 

like I said we have some good young talent (base) and a few returning off injuries BUT, that means nothing .... Luck will come back fine despite the negativity on this forum. 

 

All of those players on your list, except for Hilton, have a significant injury history. Just saying. Kelly hasn't proved much yet at all other than he can be consistently hurt. No disrespect intended.

[theanarchist]

6 hours ago, Peterk2011 said:

 

So after one year you already come to the conclusion that Ballards draft was very average. Because you miss the Robert Mathises, the Jeff Saturdays, the Gary Bracketts. I have to ask you, if you knew that Robert Mathis was a 5th rounder, who didn't start a single game in his first two years?

 

Btw, did you know that Gary Brackett was an undrafted free agent who was 3rd then 2nd string rotational piece for two years before finally becoming the starter in his third season? Did you know that Jeff Saturday was also an undrafted free agent, who was signed by the Ravens, then cut by the Ravens, and he went back selling electrical supplies for a year? Did you know that the Colts signed him the next year off the street, and used him as a backup at center, and as a "next man up" at LG. Did you know that he looked as bad as an off the street ex. udfa can be that year? Did you know that it was his third offseason when he picked his game up, took the starting center spot and never looked back?

 

Be a bit more patient, give these young guys some more time to prove themselves.

Yes, I knew ALL that. Ive been following this team for quite a long time. Pre glory days, back to to 70's. Yes, I will stick by my assertion that his first draft was average. Feel free to check back with me in two years and we'll decide which of us was right. As far as Mathis goes, yes you are right, techinically he didn't start his first two years but that was only on paper. By his seconds season he was playing a lot of the snaps but wasn't in on 1st down so techinically you are correct but it was pretty apparent early on that Mathis was a steal in that draft.

[theanarchist]

6 hours ago, Smonroe said:

@theanarchist  Not to be picky but when all but one of your draft picks not only make the team, but all contribute, that’s a decent draft.

 

Agree that it takes more than a year to really evaluate, and that we didn’t exactly have a hard to crack roster.  But I thought it was an excellent draft.  

I wont argue with you, if you think it was excellent that's great but I personally don't see it. Like you say, one year isn't enough time to make a final comment on.

[TdungyW/12]

2 hours ago, theanarchist said:

All of those players on your list, except for Hilton, have a significant injury history. Just saying. Kelly hasn't proved much yet at all other than he can be consistently hurt. No disrespect intended.

No disrespect taken. 

 

I know we have some guys with injuries coming back but we have good talent so when they get back it’ll boost us. And Kelly hasn’t allowed a sack yet. Plus with picks and coaching staff we might be building a better team but I (IMO) wouldn’t call it a complete rebuild ..... complete would be to me would start with a QB.

[Peterk2011]

1 hour ago, theanarchist said:

Yes, I knew ALL that. Ive been following this team for quite a long time. Pre glory days, back to to 70's. Yes, I will stick by my assertion that his first draft was average. Feel free to check back with me in two years and we'll decide which of us was right. As far as Mathis goes, yes you are right, techinically he didn't start his first two years but that was only on paper. By his seconds season he was playing a lot of the snaps but wasn't in on 1st down so techinically you are correct but it was pretty apparent early on that Mathis was a steal in that draft.

 

So did Nate Hairston. So did Terrell Basham. So did Quincy Wilson. Malik Hooker was a starter from day one.

 

Btw, Wilson was graded better by pff than Jaleen Collins, Marcus Peters were graded in their rookie season. His grade was almost identical to Jalen Ramseys rookie season. Malik Hooker was graded in the top 10 of last years 32 first rounders. And Malik Hooker is a guy, who most analysts projected as a rare talent but a developmental player who will struggle in his first year, maybe even his second to become an all pro safety by year 3.

 

So if you knew all this, I am even more baffled how can you judge these guys so early.

[mirobi48]

I can't wait to see how Ballards scout team does in this years draft? this will be the first year he has had his scouts in place for a whole year

[deedub75]

I don’t think he’s done tearing it down yet. 

[Old Colt]

16 hours ago, TdungyW/12 said:

I don’t believe it’s a full rebuild .... we have a few key pieces in place .... some coming back from injury and some just added. With this draft and a few more FA pick ups we will be fine. We are building long term ..... and won’t need to blow up like JAX, TEN and HOUS in like 2-3 years.

No we won't blow up like JAX, TEN, and HOUS in 2 - 3 years...... we are blowing up NOW!   

[Barry Sears]

14 hours ago, Peterk2011 said:

 

So after one year you already come to the conclusion that Ballards draft was very average. Because you miss the Robert Mathises, the Jeff Saturdays, the Gary Bracketts. I have to ask you, if you knew that Robert Mathis was a 5th rounder, who didn't start a single game in his first two years?

 

Btw, did you know that Gary Brackett was an undrafted free agent who was 3rd then 2nd string rotational piece for two years before finally becoming the starter in his third season? Did you know that Jeff Saturday was also an undrafted free agent, who was signed by the Ravens, then cut by the Ravens, and he went back selling electrical supplies for a year? Did you know that the Colts signed him the next year off the street, and used him as a backup at center, and as a "next man up" at LG. Did you know that he looked as bad as an off the street ex. udfa can be that year? Did you know that it was his third offseason when he picked his game up, took the starting center spot and never looked back?

 

Be a bit more patient, give these young guys some more time to prove themselves.

 

^^^^^^^^^

THIS!

 

And, some "experts" thought Bob Sanders was too small, as well as Dwight Freeney.  Who knew Dallas Clark would develop into a great TE, instead of a good one?  These things take time.  There are only a handful of rookies each season across the league that are stars right out of the gate.

[TdungyW/12]

1 hour ago, Old Colt said:

No we won't blow up like JAX, TEN, and HOUS in 2 - 3 years...... we are blowing up NOW!   

We are not blowing up .... don’t over exaggerate 

[theanarchist]

12 hours ago, Peterk2011 said:

 

So did Nate Hairston. So did Terrell Basham. So did Quincy Wilson. Malik Hooker was a starter from day one.

 

Btw, Wilson was graded better by pff than Jaleen Collins, Marcus Peters were graded in their rookie season. His grade was almost identical to Jalen Ramseys rookie season. Malik Hooker was graded in the top 10 of last years 32 first rounders. And Malik Hooker is a guy, who most analysts projected as a rare talent but a developmental player who will struggle in his first year, maybe even his second to become an all pro safety by year 3.

 

So if you knew all this, I am even more baffled how can you judge these guys so early.

I don't follow any PFF grades. I'm just watching the games. I'll give you that Hairston and Wilson, when he was given a chance to play, did fine. Basham, I didn't see much of  anything from him that would indicate to me that hes going to be an impact type player. Marlon Mack contributed as a 3rd down back. I don't see him as an every down player. Before you start saying well every pick cant be a starter, I understand that. My point is that right now, in my opinion that draft appears to be a very ordinary draft. Nothing special. I agree its early to label average and I said that in my initial post.

[runthepost]

23 hours ago, TdungyW/12 said:

Kelly

hilton

hooker

geathers

luck

 

wilson

WAY better coaching and GM

#6 pick - hopefully Chubb

3 second round picks .... if we hit on 2-3 of of those 4 picks we will be better off then most think. 

 

 

like I said we have some good young talent (base) and a few returning off injuries BUT, that means nothing .... Luck will come back fine despite the negativity on this forum. 

 

You named all injury prone players and TY. 

[TdungyW/12]

18 minutes ago, runthepost said:

You named all injury prone players and TY. 

If you had read original post and our convos then we have been talking about that. And hooker, Luck, Kelly geathers aren’t injury prone they have an injury or have had an injury .... these players aren’t out every year with knagging injuries .... well Luck has due to a crappy line and being sacked an NFL high every year. 

[theanarchist]

1 hour ago, TdungyW/12 said:

If you had read original post and our convos then we have been talking about that. And hooker, Luck, Kelly geathers aren’t injury prone they have an injury or have had an injury .... these players aren’t out every year with knagging injuries .... well Luck has due to a crappy line and being sacked an NFL high every year. 

Not to argue but hooker was hurt in college, Gaethers has a serious neck issue that kept him out significant time and Kelly has been hurt multiple times in his time here.

[TdungyW/12]

15 minutes ago, theanarchist said:

Not to argue but hooker was hurt in college, Gaethers has a serious neck issue that kept him out significant time and Kelly has been hurt multiple times in his time here.

It’s still not a complete rebuild ..... people over react to everything 

[Peterk2011]

19 hours ago, theanarchist said:

I don't follow any PFF grades. I'm just watching the games. I'll give you that Hairston and Wilson, when he was given a chance to play, did fine. Basham, I didn't see much of  anything from him that would indicate to me that hes going to be an impact type player. Marlon Mack contributed as a 3rd down back. I don't see him as an every down player. Before you start saying well every pick cant be a starter, I understand that. My point is that right now, in my opinion that draft appears to be a very ordinary draft. Nothing special. I agree its early to label average and I said that in my initial post.

 

Ok, let's check back in 2 years and see how things turned out by then. My gut feeling tells me that we both will be pretty satified with the result.

[MacDee1975]

On 3/20/2018 at 3:52 PM, theanarchist said:

By key pieces do you mean a franchise QB coming off of a year and a half rehab of his surgically repaired throwing shoulder? What other key pieces do you mean?

 

If it was a full rebuild, they would be moving on from Luck, not putting pieces around him.

[crazycolt1]

2 hours ago, MacDee1975 said:

 

If it was a full rebuild, they would be moving on from Luck, not putting pieces around him.

Yes it is a rebuild.

A whole new coaching staff

A change in defense

A change in offense

Sheading off players who are not wanted

The team going in a different direction

Not spending money on high dollar free agents to use as quick fix band aids

Luck has absolutely nothing to do with it.

 

 

[lollygagger8]

Waaaaaaaaaaaaay too early to judge a draft after one year. 

 

 

[MacDee1975]

9 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Yes it is a rebuild.

A whole new coaching staff

A change in defense

A change in offense

Sheading off players who are not wanted

The team going in a different direction

Not spending money on high dollar free agents to use as quick fix band aids

Luck has absolutely nothing to do with it.

 

 

 

Take off "whole new coaching staff" and 2/3 of the teams do everything else you listed every year.  The title of the thread is "Complete Rebuild", so Luck has absolutely everything to do with it.

[theanarchist]

8 minutes ago, MacDee1975 said:

 

Take off "whole new coaching staff" and 2/3 of the teams do everything else you listed every year.  The title of the thread is "Complete Rebuild", so Luck has absolutely everything to do with it.

Teams don't change schemes every year. You're splitting hairs when you say if they were moving on from Luck it would be a complete rebuild. Sure, Luck is still the franchise QB so that piece is in place, kind of. Until I actually see him throwing passes in live drills Luck is still a huge question mark. As far as how things go in the NFL its pretty much a complete rebuild, JMO.

[braveheartcolt]

What bleedin difference does it make what we call it. It will not change our record. I think I will just watch it all playout next season and take it from there. Way too much drama around all this.