Jim Irsay says,"Why do some of u guys want us 2 sign Moss? We got Reggie,Gonzo,Austin,Pierre?"

[Road Apple]

I agree with not signing him. Can you imagine a sloppy play or stupid mistake by Moss and Peyton chews him up-one-side-and-down-the-other like he has with every other receiver the Colts have had over the years? I think Reggie's ears are still ringing from a Peyton peptalk during his rookie year. Totally not worth the potential negativity he would bring to the team. The media would eat it up and it would be a huge distraction to the Colts.

[Coltsman1788]

My Favorite YAC!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C67pGdr4v0g

That play was pure awesomeness. From our first playoff win in the Manning era.

[BobbyMorris94]

That is not at all what Coltsman1788 said.

There is much truth to this. I think some Moss haters are going to be confused and miss the point you're trying to make because you're using Moss specifically as an example. There is a world of difference brought to the redzone passing game when you're target has the "wingspan", or range, that you get from a 6'4+ leaper. It changes the dynamic between QB and receiver dramatically. Most CB's are sub 6 feet and straight out we have NOBODY, in terms of receivers, that can body out a CB. Even our TE's are small by TE standards.

Exactly. I'm glad you got my point. We either need a guy like Marvin who is for sure going to give us 10 TDs a year from outside the redzone, or we need a guy who can give us the ability to go up and get the ball when we are in the redzone. We have neither since Marv left. Manning gets small guys the ball in the red zone better than any other QB can get a big guy the ball in the same area. But if Manning had the ability to add this element to his game before he retires, he would probably be even more unstoppable down there. A lot of times when we kick a field goal inside the twenty we could have had a touchdown if we could have exploited a match-up and went over a CB. No one puts the ball where his guy can only get it better than Manning. A legit big receiving threat would have it made here.

[Peyton>brady]

Again, Marvin only once averaged more than 4 YAC in his career (4.4 back in 01-02). Garcon's is 4.9 for his career. The fact is, Garcon's career average for YAC is better than any single year of Marvin's, and at least 1 yard per catch better than any single year of Marvin's but 1.

Yep and if i suit up and catch one 90yd. TD, i'll have them both beat. Keep thinking about it

[Coltsman1788]

Again, Marvin only once averaged more than 4 YAC in his career (4.4 back in 01-02). Garcon's is 4.9 for his career. The fact is, Garcon's career average for YAC is better than any single year of Marvin's, and at least 1 yard per catch better than any single year of Marvin's but 1.

The numbers are what they are. But just because Garcon's YAC is better doesn't necessarily settle anything either. Garcon's game right now is to stretch the field. He is too inconsistent to be counted on to regularly move the chains. Often moving the chains doesn't require anything more than simply getting past the sticks and CATCHING THE BALL. Peyton called on Marvin to do both over his career. That is your difference in YAC between the two.

[ruksak]

Marvin would literally fall down if the defender was in front of him. Garçon will punch a fool in the face and whirl like a drunken Irishman. i.e. the Cromartie stiff-arm.

Clear evidence of such at 3:30

[BobbyMorris94]

The numbers are what they are. But just because Garcon's YAC is better doesn't necessarily settle anything either. Garcon's game right now is to stretch the field. He is too inconsistent to be counted on to regularly move the chains. Often moving the chains doesn't require anything more than simply getting past the sticks and CATCHING THE BALL. Peyton called on Marvin to do both over his career. That is your difference in YAC between the two.

GREAT point! Marvin's amazing awareness and IQ shades his YAC numbers dramatically. He knew how to avoid collision and prolong his career. He knew all we needed was a first down, and not a forced fumble because he tried to get an extra yard or two. He knew his ability, and played within it. He wasn't going to take an uncessary hit to pad his YAC and get a yard or two that is unnecessary because we already have the first down!

Saying Garcon is better than anything Marvin brought to the table is laughable at this point. Garcon has 10 career touchdowns in 3 years. Marvin Harrison had 128 in about a decade as a starter.

[John Waylon]

Maybe we want to sign Moss and play him at CB? :light:

(That is sarcastic... No doubt some would have missed that had I not pointed it out. :rolleyes2: )

[ruksak]

GREAT point! Marvin's amazing awareness and IQ shades his YAC numbers dramatically. He knew how to avoid collision and prolong his career. He knew all we needed was a first down, and not a forced fumble because he tried to get an extra yard or two. He knew his ability, and played within it. He wasn't going to take an uncessary hit to pad his YAC and get a yard or two that is unnecessary because we already have the first down!

Saying Garcon is better than anything Marvin brought to the table is laughable at this point. Garcon has 10 career touchdowns in 3 years. Marvin Harrison had 128 in about a decade as a starter.

Sadly, one of my last memories of Harrison was watching him fumble away a playoff game trying to get some YAC. He was cerebral, blazing fast but not physical in any manner whatsoever.

That being said .....Harrison > Garçon on any given Sunday, period.

[JoKeR]

lol b/c every casual football fan just knows big name players and that's about it. When one is available they think their team MUST get them, especially if it is a RB, or WR.

Exactly. I hope he realizes most of us do not want Moss.

[BobbyMorris94]

Sadly, one of my last memories of Harrison was watching him fumble away a playoff game trying to get some YAC. He was cerebral, blazing fast but not physical in any manner whatsoever.

That being said .....Harrison > Garçon on any given Sunday, period.

He was a shell of him former self by that point and he probably just wasn't as quick as he thought he was. He thought he could out run the guy and he no longer could. Whatever that injury was he suffered, against the Pats I think? it ended his career. He was fine that season up until that injury then never recovered.

[Coltsman1788]

Marvin would literally fall down if the defender was in front of him. Garçon will punch a fool in the face and whirl like a drunken Irishman. i.e. the Cromartie stiff-arm.

Clear evidence of such at 3:30

Nice! Now check out my boy. Respect greatness.

[Warhawk]

Yep and if i suit up and catch one 90yd. TD, i'll have them both beat. Keep thinking about it

Like I said, the sample size is more than enough to draw a comparison. So is the fact that Marvin never averaged in a single season what Garcon has averaged over his career, so Garcon's is still better even when you divide up Harrison's career into smaller sample sizes.

[ruksak]

He was a shell of him former self by that point and he probably just wasn't as quick as he thought he was. He thought he could out run the guy and he no longer could. Whatever that injury was he suffered, against the Pats I think? it ended his career. He was fine that season up until that injury then never recovered.

You got it.

The saddest thing about Marvin's exit was, it was as if he disappeared off the face of planet without ceremony. This guy helped Manning become the QB stat king and he just poofed into the wind like dust.

[ruksak]

Nice! Now check out my boy. Respect greatness.

Don't you dare even suggest that I don't respect Marvin. :stop:

[Coltsman1788]

Don't you dare even suggest that I don't respect Marvin. :stop:

Didn't mean it to you personally. I meant it more as a general statement as an intro to the video. I can tell by your posts that you respect greatness when you see it.

[CCF]

First off, Moss was a great WR, key word is WAS. Second, he is not/never was a Colts type player, MeMe players, and "I play when I wanna play" players are not what this team is about. Nothing against Moss he is a sure fire HOF lock, just not a Colts type player.

[ruksak]

Didn't mean it to you personally. I meant it more as a general statement as an intro to the video. I can tell by your posts that you respect greatness when you see it.

I know, was just goofin < enjoy this free dancing banana

[OLD FAN MAN]

could be that horn will be our burner cause we need one

[JoKeR]

Garcon is our burner, a physical kind though.

[CCF]

Garcon is our burner, a physical kind though.

Exactly, watch the clip someone posted of him blowing by rodgers - cromartie. If that isnt burner speed idk what is. And as far as his hands, Reggie dropped more passes than he did, although he had more passes to him.No question his hands have to be better, but if he catches that 1 pass in the SB he doesnt have the same bad rep as a dropper.

[Jason_]

Marvin would literally fall down if the defender was in front of him. Garçon will punch a fool in the face and whirl like a drunken Irishman. i.e. the Cromartie stiff-arm.

Clear evidence of such at 3:30

I lol'd at that because it's true...but at the same time there was a reason he did. Like others have said, he knew all he HAD to get was a first down. When it came to getting first downs, Marvin has to go down as one of the best all time because he ran his route deep enough so that just making the catch would get him the first down. Garcon hasn't learned that yet. Take a look at the 2nd and 7 play against the Ravens towards the end of the video. (starts at 4:11 I believe) Garcon ran a 6 yard route and then tried to turn it upfield but got whacked by Ray Lewis. He HAD to go for the extra 1-2 YAC because he didn't run the route deep enough. If he'd run the route 7-8 yards instead of 6 he could have turned, caught the ball and then dropped to the ground if he he saw he was going to get nailed. Granted in that specific instance it wouldn't have mattered because Lewis was there right on time so Garcon wouldn't have been able to drop to the ground quick enough, but fortunately it's not always someone with the skill and timing of a Ray Lewis coming at you.

I don't think it's fair to say that Garcon is better at YAC. It's more appropriate, imo, to say he was more willing to go after the YAC...but again in most cases Marvin knew he didn't necessarily have to because he ran the route deep enough that just making the catch would get a first down.

[Rafiki]

Yes, the Colts have great talent at WR. Facts are though Garcon / Collie / Gonzo not 1 of these 3 have made it 16 games the last 2 seasons. Potentially we have lost playoff games strictly because we have A) had to get a WR non starter receiver ready to play serious playoff mins. B) Have not had WR with enough talent opposite Wayne in the playoffs because of injuries.

Last year playoffs against Jets.. can you really say Blair White would have helped as much as Moss?

If we stay healthy at WR we are ok.. but then whens the last time that has happened? staying put you are a gambler.. and odds say a bad gamble

[CCF]

Seriously why are we even talking about Garcon and Marvin in the same sentence? No disrespect to Garcon, but Marvin is one of the greatest ever.

[CCF]

Yes, the Colts have great talent at WR. Facts are though Garcon / Collie / Gonzo not 1 of these 3 have made it 16 games the last 2 seasons. Potentially we have lost playoff games strictly because we have A) had to get a WR non starter receiver ready to play serious playoff mins. B) Have not had WR with enough talent opposite Wayne in the playoffs because of injuries.

Last year playoffs against Jets.. can you really say Blair White would have helped as much as Moss?

If we stay healthy at WR we are ok.. but then whens the last time that has happened? staying put you are a gambler.. and odds say a bad gamble

Moss wasn't good enough last year to play for the Pats, the Vikings or the Titans. So how is he supposed to be the Colts savior?

[mr. football]

cost of signing randy moss to a one year deal....3 to 5 million (im not sure) cost of colts winning another superbowl.....PRICELESS!! hopefully jim you are reading this. #1 if the injury bug hits us at receiver this year, like last year...i dont want to be caught in the same situation. #2 yes all of our receivers are extremely talented but, we dont have a 6'4" redzone target. #3 i think it would bring a sense of excitement to the city and to the team that would give us ALL a boost. #4 if we were to win a superbowl with randy,after he didnt win one in new england....well lets just say i think that would be good for peyton and the team!! cmon jim, roll the dice and sign up randy! p.s. i think you are the best and coolest owner in the league. GO COLTS!!!!!!

[Rafiki]

Moss wasn't good enough last year to play for the Pats, the Vikings or the Titans. So how is he supposed to be the Colts savior?

Like I said, injuries. facts are facts and facts are past 2 years only Reggie has managed to stay healthy.

saying Moss isn't good enough..?? seriously that statement shows you just don't like Moss and its more personal than factual for you. Even with last year his first 8 games ( NE / MINN ) he had 5 TD's which projects to 10 TDS, thats horrible? and not good enough? Counting the last 8 games with Tennessee with Rusty Smith throwing the ball is hardly fair since every TENN WR had a hard time catching a TD pass.. since he THREW 0.

Aside from last year Moss had 3 straight 10+ TD seasons NO Colt WR accept Reggie has had 10+ TD for the last 3+ years

[CCF]

Like I said, injuries. facts are facts and facts are past 2 years only Reggie has managed to stay healthy.

saying Moss isn't good enough..?? seriously that statement shows you just don't like Moss and its more personal than factual for you. Even with last year his first 8 games ( NE / MINN ) he had 5 TD's which projects to 10 TDS, thats horrible? and not good enough? Counting the last 8 games with Tennessee with Rusty Smith throwing the ball is hardly fair since every TENN WR had a hard time catching a TD pass.. since he THREW 0.

Aside from last year Moss had 3 straight 10+ TD seasons NO Colt WR accept Reggie has had 10+ TD for the last 3+ years

I won't pretend to like Randy Moss, cause I don't. If people thought he had something left, #1 NE keeps him for a SB run, #2 he lasts longer than 2-3 games in Minnesota on a team DESPERATE for WR's and #3 more teams than the Titans claim him and he catches more than 6 balls there. Randy Moss 2 years ago, yeah who wouldn't want that kind of production. But I believe that is not the kind of player you win championships with. There are better options at WR available, but I don't think we need any. I would not take Wayne Collie or Garcon off the field to accomidate him at this stage of his career.

[Rafiki]

Fair enough, you don't like him and don't want him.

My argument was simple it makes the Colts better that why I want him.

[nicky6times]

CONSPIRACY!!!

this is for all of you who also believe that jim is following everything we say @ all times on forum, read my post on the 2md page of this topic (you will have to read maynard246's reply since it got deleted by a mod)..i believe we were hitting a little 2 close 2 the truth as they claimed "i was starting rumors"..well to all the overbearing mods..i think not!!! have u read irsays recent tweet..he says "I say it,so it must be so"..hmm..seems a lil suspicious jim..hes tryin so hard to trick us into believing that he is not intent on signing randy moss..or can it be? is he is confirming all our sinking suspicions?..yes, he is actually throwing us for a loop..hes trying to convey the ole reverse psychology tactic..well that hasnt worked on me since the 12th grade, mr. irsay..i see what your trying 2 do, u cunning little fox..i bet u were tweeting this as moss was actually in your dinning room feasting on lamb and asparagus sprouts with you and your family..all yucking it up about how you both were messing with the minds of the all colts forums fans as you break bread..i would maybe expect this from randy, but for shame on you jim..we trusted you to never lead us astray..if you and randy are laughing at us all behind our backs, we understand, we would all do the same..im sure randy has an engaging personality once u truely get 2 know his inner most dreams and desires..if u r listening tho, jim, just tweet ur favorite line from the crocodile dundee trilogy three times and we will all know that were still in ur thoughts as we continue our strictly online non-communicative internet based relationship

[OLD FAN MAN]

randy moss would make peytons job a lot easier as it did bradys

[coltsfan9710]

A motivated Moss would be a great acquisition... however, a healthy Gonzo would also be a great thing to have, which is why I believe a lot of people (including myself) were expressing the desire to sign Moss.... gonzo is a great receiver, however, with his health, he is kind of turning into a Bob Sanders... If he stays healthy, he will put up great numbers, he will be one of the Colts elite, however, it hasn't looked too promising in the last couple seasons...

[maynard327]

dude..they deleted that post..said i was "spreading rumors" hahaha..does any1 really believe that?

That figures... I suppose they have to account for the * (no disrespect to the mentally handicapped, my aunt has cerebral palsy) that would read that and believe it. It was clearly a joke to me, and a dayum funny one at that! I suppose maybe next time put a little disclaimer at the bottom spelling out that it's just a joke and there's no truth to it. Maybe then they'll let it stay?

[OLD FAN MAN]

never mind i think hank basket is available

[OLD FAN MAN]

hank basket has great hands dont you agree

[Nadine]

@nick6times & @maynard327

No rumors, no defamatory comments, no name calling.

no discussing moderation.

If you feel the rules on this board do not suit your posting style, please choose another board that suits you better.

Further issues will result and suspension and\or disabling your account here.

[everybodysgotone]

Moss is retired and I hope he stays that way. I won't miss him being in the league. He was fun to watch during his haydays with NE and I respect those times. If he does return to the NFL I hope it's not as a Colt. I think he'd do more to subtract and/or be non-factor the team than add to it - his later years show that to be the case.

[ArmyRecon]

First can anyone remeber us ever having a jump ball wr...someone peyton could throw a pass up high in end zone and he could outjump the cb(like cards do with fitzgerald)I think torrance small was pretty tall but while he was good possessian type wr he wasnt talant like fitzgeraldd,moss,calvin johnson etc....at one point I thought roy hall might turn out to be but he never worked out...even if we sign moss and he only catches 10 passes all year if those 10 are all redzone catches he'd be worth every penny...im not a moss fan but he would add a dynamic our passing game hasnt really had

[BIGugly]

We really don't want Moss. Our locker room is very stable, and it needs to stay that way.

'Sides, Peyton won't have time to go deep, which means Moss would start to take 'time off', and that leads to interceptions....NO THANK YOU....;

[P-Money]

Won't have time to go deep? Please explain this non sense!!