Tiger Woods

[oldunclemark]

 

...There's a lot of ways to look at Tiger's  comeback..but I liken him to Peyton Manning in many respects.

Fellow travelers.

The hot shot 20-something kid..arguably the best of all time.....putting up unheard of numbers..

..and then 3 things happened...

 

He got old.  He got hurt and he got fired.

And the people said 'no'. Wait a minute. This cant happen to him. 

And the doctors said: Maybe you should give it up, old man.   Look at what you've accomplished. You're never going to get back to that level.

You've had too many surgeries...Too many injuries. You've got more money than you can ever spend. Why don't you just retire and go play with your kids?.

Just go away.

 

But they didnt go away.

....and now, the people who used to root for Tiger out of respect for his ability, root for him because they identify with getting old, getting hurt and being told you cant do it anymore.

And because he reminds them of when they were younger and things were better.

Folks never really loved Tiger in his prime.

Now the crowds actually see to love him.  I'm in it.  Its like a star of another era being transported through time to face the stars of today.  

I thought that Peyton's years in Denver were the greatest comeback I'd ever seen in sports bar none. ...........until now.

[dgambill]

On ‎3‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 11:58 AM, oldunclemark said:

 

...There's a lot of ways to look at Tiger's  comeback..but I liken him to Peyton Manning in many respects.

Fellow travelers.

The hot shot 20-something kid..arguably the best of all time.....putting up unheard of numbers..

..and then 3 things happened...

 

He got old.  He got hurt and he got fired.

And the people said 'no'. Wait a minute. This cant happen to him. 

And the doctors said: Maybe you should give it up, old man.   Look at what you've accomplished. You're never going to get back to that level.

You've had too many surgeries...Too many injuries. You've got more money than you can ever spend. Why don't you just retire and go play with your kids?.

Just go away.

 

But they didnt go away.

....and now, the people who used to root for Tiger out of respect for his ability, root for him because they identify with getting old, getting hurt and being told you cant do it anymore.

And because he reminds them of when they were younger and things were better.

Folks never really loved Tiger in his prime.

Now the crowds actually see to love him.  I'm in it.  Its like a star of another era being transported through time to face the stars of today.  

I thought that Peyton's years in Denver were the greatest comeback I'd ever seen in sports bar none. ...........until now.

I rooted for Tiger in his prime. Just because he was able to do things with a golf ball I could never dream of doing. Things I have never seen before. Now I don't root for him. The things I know about him and what he put his family through even though I am not one to judge I just now have no reason to cheer for him. I'd rather cheer for some of these other young golfers. Plus since my dad died and his golf idol was Jack Nichlaus (I even think he looked a little like him) I have grown very fond of the Golden Bear. Grew up watching his instructional videos and now he seems like a gracious guy and good family man. I am very happy that his records may last a little longer....he is a very deserving champion.

 

As for Tiger and Peyton....they both got hurt....most thought neither would come back....but only one has proven to be able to rise to the top of his game, win, become an mvp, break records, and win a championship. So until Tiger can do something equivilant...yeah they aren't comparable in that retrospect. Tiger has played a few good rounds....still hasn't won an event...much less get close to back to his excellence. I know a lot are rooting him on....I'm kinda meh....and if you give me the choice of one of these young exciting US golfers like Thomas, Speith, Reed I'll root for them all day long over him.

[oldunclemark]

             Its not about liking him or rooting for him.        

To me, its all about the comeback from 'career-ending' injuries. 

Its not about other young golfers or other greats...other than to see them take on their childhood idol

 

.Tiger is facing an uphill climb unlike any golfer in history except maybe Ben Hogan (got hit by a car and came back to win 6 majors)

Six tournaments into his comeback, Tiger hasnt won, although he did finish second and has two Top-10s, incredible achievements for someone in his 40s after back vertebrae fusion surgery

Six games into Peyton's comeback I believe the Broncos were 3-3.

You know that golf is 'feel' and body control and touch...It may take him a year to get it back

I want to see if its possible for Tiger to come back from the grave (athletically speaking) like Peyton did.

 

   But its the idea of a star from a generation ago coming back to face stars of this generation.

I want to see it....I want to see him taking on Jordan Spieth and Rory McElroy and the greats of today.

Who would win...Michael or LeBron.....? 

We may not have to guess....we are very close to seeing the World No. 1 player of 20 years ago go head to head with the World No.1 (and 2 and 3) of today...This never happens in sports

    

Edited April 10, 2018 by oldunclemark

[dgambill]

I’ll put Tiger on the Peyton comeback category when he does something. Finishing 2nd at the Farmers classic or whatever means nothing. Compete at the biggest events against the best. Heck maybe even have to win a championship or two...he is far from doing what Peyton did imo.

[oldunclemark]

On ‎4‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 6:02 PM, dgambill said:

I’ll put Tiger on the Peyton comeback category when he does something. Finishing 2nd at the Farmers classic or whatever means nothing. Compete at the biggest events against the best. Heck maybe even have to win a championship or two...he is far from doing what Peyton did imo.

Finishing 2nd in a PGA tournament with six of the world Top-10 is competing against the best.

...and its a huge achievement for a healthy man in his 40s..... there is no templete for this

No one has ever returned from back vertebrae fusion surgery to compete on the PGA tour...

 

But a lot of people have passed judgment and will not recognize the comeback. I hear what you're saying.  I'm just talking about the odds he's overcome

....and while its obvious he is again one of the world's top-10,  its true he hasn't actually won a tournament yet....not yet. 

 

 

Edited April 13, 2018 by oldunclemark

[dgambill]

2 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

Finishing 2nd in a PGA tournament with six of the world Top-10 is competing against the best.

...and its a huge achievement for a healthy man in his 40s..... there is no templete for this

No one has ever returned from back vertebrae fusion surgery to compete on the PGA tour...

 

But a lot of people have passed judgment and will not recognize the comeback. I hear what you're saying.  I'm just talking about the odds he's overcome

....and while its obvious he is again one of the world's top-10,  its true he hasn't actually won a tournament yet....not yet. 

 

 

In the famous words...if you want to crown him...crown him....but he is who we thought he is! I’m not buying the hype. Granted he is playing better than anyone thought but I need to see him hitting darts on the back nine on Sunday of a major to complete a comeback. Phil is older and plays with arthritis...plenty of guys doing incredible things on the tour. Tigers comeback might be improbable but he isn’t back to doing what he used to. Peyton came back and had arguably the greatest year ever.

[oldunclemark]

13 hours ago, dgambill said:

In the famous words...if you want to crown him...crown him....but he is who we thought he is! I’m not buying the hype. Granted he is playing better than anyone thought but I need to see him hitting darts on the back nine on Sunday of a major to complete a comeback. Phil is older and plays with arthritis...plenty of guys doing incredible things on the tour. Tigers comeback might be improbable but he isn’t back to doing what he used to. Peyton came back and had arguably the greatest year ever.

.  This isn't about a 'crowning' or a comparison with other players...or how well he's playing 

Tiger had back fusion surgery..when you compare it to Phil playing with arthritis Im sensing you may not understand  back fusion surgery is.   No one else has come back from that....  certainly not at his age..(42)

Its just like how nobody came back from multiple neck surgeries in their mid-to-late 30s until Peyton did it.

That's the comparison.

 

Peyton was 'back' that first year when they won 11 in a row and made the playoffs. There was no need for him to go to two Super Bowls for him to have overcome his injury. Same with Tiger. He's back now. Like Peyton, its not for the money or the fame or his 'brand'.   He just wants to play again.

 

I agree he hasn't won. Yet.

 

[dgambill]

9 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

.  This isn't about a 'crowning' or a comparison with other players...or how well he's playing 

Tiger had back fusion surgery..when you compare it to Phil playing with arthritis Im sensing you may not understand  back fusion surgery is.   No one else has come back from that....  certainly not at his age..(42)

Its just like how nobody came back from multiple neck surgeries in their mid-to-late 30s until Peyton did it.

That's the comparison.

 

Peyton was 'back' that first year when they won 11 in a row and made the playoffs. There was no need for him to go to two Super Bowls for him to have overcome his injury. Same with Tiger. He's back now. Like Peyton, its not for the money or the fame or his 'brand'.   He just wants to play again.

 

I agree he hasn't won. Yet.

 

That’s fine. I think you downplay arthritis and how debilitating it can be. Wake me up when Tiger wins. My standard of equaling Peyton would be winning a major or two minimum. I don’t think he will even win another tournament...maybe on the champions tour he might someday. Just like we hold Peyton to MVPs and SBs I would say Tiger is back when he starts winning majors again. Anything else....yawn from me.

[oldunclemark]

On ‎4‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 8:53 PM, dgambill said:

That’s fine. I think you downplay arthritis and how debilitating it can be. Wake me up when Tiger wins. My standard of equaling Peyton would be winning a major or two minimum. I don’t think he will even win another tournament...maybe on the champions tour he might someday. Just like we hold Peyton to MVPs and Snonsense I would say Tiger is back when he starts winning majors again. Anything else....yawn from me.

You're not serious if you equate arthritis to back fusion surgery. 

 

You keep posting again and again to tell me again and again that you cant see any parallel between Peyton's comeback from injury and Tiger's.  You hold his past against him, as you have said.  Its okay. Its like you're asking my [permission not to like him/ You dont need it

 

I repeat... the comparisons to Peyton's comeback from a career ending injury is obviously still there for those like me who don't hold his past against him.

 

 

[dgambill]

7 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

You're not serious if you equate arthritis to back fusion surgery. 

 

You keep posting again and again to tell me again and again that you cant see any parallel between Peyton's comeback from injury and Tiger's.  You hold his past against him, as you have said.  Its okay. Its like you're asking my [permission not to like him/ You dont need it

 

I repeat... the comparisons to Peyton's comeback from a career ending injury is obviously still there for those like me who don't hold his past against him.

 

 

No my comparison is that Peyton made it all the way back and played at an elite level despite his limitations. MVP, broken records, SB....Tiger has done nothing since coming back. The only similarity is the surgery...in a NON CONTACT sport! Given the comparison I will give Tiger some credit when he starts winning again. Minimum a major...until then it isn’t even close in my eyes. Like him or not I’m objective...but don’t crown this some type of major achievement until he ACHIEVES something. Just making it back to the tour to me doesn’t make them equal comebacks in my mind. Sorry Mark that’s my standard for greatness..Tiger was great...now he is just another guy.

[oldunclemark]

20 hours ago, dgambill said:

No my comparison is that Peyton made it all the way back and played at an elite level despite his limitations. MVP, broken records, SB....Tiger has done nothing since coming back. The only similarity is the surgery...in a NON CONTACT sport! Given the comparison I will give Tiger some credit when he starts winning again. Minimum a major...until then it isn’t even close in my eyes. Like him or not I’m objective...but don’t crown this some type of major achievement until he ACHIEVES something. Just making it back to the tour to me doesn’t make them equal comebacks in my mind. Sorry Mark that’s my standard for greatness..Tiger was great...now he is just another guy.

'Tiger has done nothing....since coming back"?   You are accentuating your opinion to make it sound better  

That's just not true....but you can say it

Its isn't close in your eyes...I get that.   His back surgery isnt worse than arthritis....  No objective person would say that.

But I understand why you would say it.

He's contending on the PGA tour with players 20 years younger...and he isnt even supposed to be out there yet.

Its not a year since his surgery.

 

You seem to be trying to convince yourself that Tiger has done nothing and good luck with that.

Whatever he does..you can say its not enough..you can set arbitrary bars for him to hurdle.

 

But his Peyton-like comeback is just starting. You'll see. He's played in 5 tournaments, right?

You certainly don't need my permission to disrespect Tiger's comeback.

 

Edited April 23, 2018 by oldunclemark

[dgambill]

7 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

'Tiger has done nothing....since coming back"?   You are accentuating your opinion to make it sound better  

That's just not true....but you can say it

Its isn't close in your eyes...I get that.   His back surgery isnt worse than arthritis....  No objective person would say that.

But I understand why you would say it.

He's contending on the PGA tour with players 20 years younger...and he isnt even supposed to be out there yet.

Its not a year since his surgery.

 

You seem to be trying to convince yourself that Tiger has done nothing and good luck with that.

Whatever he does..you can say its not enough..you can set arbitrary bars for him to hurdle.

 

But his Peyton-like comeback is just starting. You'll see. He's played in 5 tournaments, right?

You certainly don't need my permission to disrespect Tiger's comeback.

 

No worries. I’ll check back on this thread when Tiger wins something....you may have to keep it bumped for me so I can find it....I have a feeling it will be a long time if ever....and I’m not talking the John Deere Classic.

[oldunclemark]

1 minute ago, dgambill said:

No worries. I’ll check back on this thread when Tiger wins something....you may have to keep it bumped for me so I can find it....I have a feeling it will be a long time if ever....and I’m not talking the John Deere Classic.

You do seem to be trying to convince yourself that his comeback is nothing..

I just started this to express something I thought was obvious.....

......The comeback has progressed so far and its just beginning.....it really is a great thing if we're being objective

 

But again.....I'll hear you out.......You certainly aren't alone in disliking Tiger Woods

 

[dgambill]

1 minute ago, oldunclemark said:

You do seem to be trying to convince yourself that his comeback is nothing..

I just started this to express something I thought was obvious.....

......The comeback has progressed so far and its just beginning.....it really is a great thing if we're being objective

 

But again.....I'll hear you out.......You certainly aren't alone in disliking Tiger Woods

 

Mark it’s not that I hate Tiger. I had his poster in college on my wall. I had his logo stuff when I played golf in high school...now have I grown up and seen him as he is and yes I lost respect but that doesn’t mean I don’t know he is very talented or coming from a serious injury...but I haven’t seen him accomplish anything yet to suggest he has made it all the way back to his greatness. On top of physically getting back he has to get back mentally...I don’t see that happening. So...to me he has a long way to go to accomplish what Peyton did. That’s all I’ve been trying to say. To me Tigers accomplishment in a non-contact sport is far from Peyton’s..and he is yet to win as well. I will start to give him credit when he does so.

[oldunclemark]

7 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Mark it’s not that I hate Tiger. I had his poster in college on my wall. I had his logo stuff when I played golf in high school...now have I grown up and seen him as he is and yes I lost respect but that doesn’t mean I don’t know he is very talented or coming from a serious injury...but I haven’t seen him accomplish anything yet to suggest he has made it all the way back to his greatness. On top of physically getting back he has to get back mentally...I don’t see that happening. So...to me he has a long way to go to accomplish what Peyton did. That’s all I’ve been trying to say. To me Tigers accomplishment in a non-contact sport is far from Peyton’s..and he is yet to win as well. I will start to give him credit when he does so.

If you actually like the guy I don't understand why an unprecedented comeback from a career ending injury doesn't register Again: No one has ever come back from back fusion surgery at his age to play on the tour.

He's hitting drives better than he did before the surgery..He's competing. ..and it s just beginning

He's in the Top-10.  You HAVE seen things that suggest he will win again on the tour. No one comes back fro what he had at his age.  That's my point.

 

You can hold a lot of things against him and set a high bar before you accept his comeback.

But dg;  its obvious.  I'm not just trying to mess with you

His return from major back surgery to compete with the stars of today is a minor miracle medically...as it was with Peyton

You;ve got to admit that, at least...  he couldn't even walk last fall

 

[dgambill]

4 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

If you actually like the guy I don't understand why an unprecedented comeback from a career ending injury doesn't register Again: No one has ever come back from back fusion surgery at his age to play on the tour.

He's hitting drives better than he did before the surgery..He's competing. ..and it s just beginning

He's in the Top-10.  You HAVE seen things that suggest he will win again on the tour. No one comes back fro what he had at his age.  That's my point.

 

You can hold a lot of things against him and set a high bar before you accept his comeback.

But dg;  its obvious.  I'm not just trying to mess with you

His return from major back surgery to compete with the stars of today is a minor miracle medically...as it was with Peyton

You;ve got to admit that, at least...  he couldn't even walk last fall

 

Comeback to me means back to what he was or at least at an elite level. He is super super talented...one of the greatest all time so I wanna see him win a major to call it a comeback. That’s my standard...might be high but I bet it’s Tigers standard too. I don’t see him being consistent enough to win. I think he is a long way from being the Tiger that will compete on Sundays for a major. The Speiths, McElroy’s. Johnsons, and Reeds are going to leave him behind.

[oldunclemark]

Just now, dgambill said:

Comeback to me means back to what he was or at least at an elite level. He is super super talented...one of the greatest all time so I wanna see him win a major to call it a comeback. That’s my standard...might be high but I bet it’s Tigers standard too. I don’t see him being consistent enough to win. I think he is a long way from being the Tiger that will compete on Sundays for a major. The Speiths, McElroy’s. Johnsons, and Reeds are going to leave him behind.

You keep telling me what you dont see...the conclusions you've drawn..after 5 tournaments

Again..you can say that.

You talk about his standards and your standards..

 

dg, He couldn't walk 9 months ago and he's back on the PGA tour competing with guys 20 years younger.

That has never occurred before...

He's been in the Top-10 twice...and you can say that means nothing.

 

But he couldnt walk 9 months ago and he;s in his 40s.

Its a medical miracle that he has come back ad its to his credit that he would want to...and work hard to get here.

 

Remember..5 tournaments

 

 

[dgambill]

21 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

You keep telling me what you dont see...the conclusions you've drawn..after 5 tournaments

Again..you can say that.

You talk about his standards and your standards..

 

dg, He couldn't walk 9 months ago and he's back on the PGA tour competing with guys 20 years younger.

That has never occurred before...

He's been in the Top-10 twice...and you can say that means nothing.

 

But he couldnt walk 9 months ago and he;s in his 40s.

Its a medical miracle that he has come back ad its to his credit that he would want to...and work hard to get here.

 

Remember..5 tournaments

 

 

He couldn’t walk??? Seems he was running around with Lindsey Vonn just fine. I realize he couldn’t play golf...but he wasn’t paralyzed. I’m not sold he can keep his body healthy enough to play full time on the tour. Hope he does because it’s good for tv and advertisers but no mark I don’t see it yet. Time will tell.

[oldunclemark]

10 minutes ago, dgambill said:

He couldn’t walk??? Seems he was running around with Lindsey Vonn just fine. I realize he couldn’t play golf...but he wasn’t paralyzed. I’m not sold he can keep his body healthy enough to play full time on the tour. Hope he does because it’s good for tv and advertisers but no mark I don’t see it yet. Time will tell.

Running around???  Lord no..He was not able to walk after his surgery..

He hasn't been with Lindsey Vonn for 18 months or so..

I'm sensing you are not serious.

His comeback is a medical miracle..and he's; 5 tournaments into it. You see it but you cant admit it.

[dgambill]

45 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

Running around???  Lord no..He was not able to walk after his surgery..

He hasn't been with Lindsey Vonn for 18 months or so..

I'm sensing you are not serious.

His comeback is a medical miracle..and he's; 5 tournaments into it. You see it but you cant admit it.

I’m not an expert on his surgery but Davis Love III had spinal fusion as well and he came back to win a few years ago. I’m sure it wasn’t exactly the same as Tigers you will tell me but spinal fusion and back surgery isn’t all that uncommon in golfers. Given Tigers ability before the surgery I think he should have to win at an elite level to say he has come back. I’m not here to hate on Tiger. Just think Peyton’s achievement is pretty impressive on the comeback rating.

[oldunclemark]

10 hours ago, dgambill said:

I’m not an expert on his surgery but Davis Love III had spinal fusion as well and he came back to win a few years ago. I’m sure it wasn’t exactly the same as Tigers you will tell me but spinal fusion and back surgery isn’t all that uncommon in golfers. Given Tigers ability before the surgery I think he should have to win at an elite level to say he has come back. I’m not here to hate on Tiger. Just think Peyton’s achievement is pretty impressive on the comeback rating.

Davis Love's surgery was not the same as Tigers....You are correct...

Tiger is in his 40s..

 

Why do you say that 'given his ability BEFORE the surgery, he should be able to win at an elite level now?  No.

You do not recover from spinal fusion surgery. Your back chances. Your vertebrae is sealed.

Tiger doesn't have the same back he had before the surgery. 

Just like Peyton never regained his velocity or feeling in his hand. He didn't have the same neck.

 The similarities are profound.....

 

You dont think he ever will return to win tournaments...and that what he's done so far is nothing.

Okay, but that's objectivity.....That's a wish.    You can hope he fails...many do. You're tired of him and you don't like his lifestyle episodes, clearly. You have the right to that.

You're not here to 'hate on Tiger' but you've replied 10 times to my comments. How come?

 

 

 

 

[oldunclemark]

  And, no offense, but the comment about Lindsey Vonn (who wasn't with Tiger during his back surgery recovery) suggests you're just trolling this thread.  Just stirring the pot.

 

True? 

[dgambill]

6 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

Davis Love's surgery was not the same as Tigers....You are correct...

Tiger is in his 40s..

 

Why do you say that 'given his ability BEFORE the surgery, he should be able to win at an elite level now?  No.

You do not recover from spinal fusion surgery. Your back chances. Your vertebrae is sealed.

Tiger doesn't have the same back he had before the surgery. 

Just like Peyton never regained his velocity or feeling in his hand. He didn't have the same neck.

 The similarities are profound.....

 

You dont think he ever will return to win tournaments...and that what he's done so far is nothing.

Okay, but that's objectivity.....That's a wish.    You can hope he fails...many do. You're tired of him and you don't like his lifestyle episodes, clearly. You have the right to that.

You're not here to 'hate on Tiger' but you've replied 10 times to my comments. How come?

 

 

 

 

 I hadn't spent a lot of time looking up spinal fusion surgery I will be honest...but all of the info online (yes I know it doesn't make it true) suggested golfers could go back to playing golf within the 6 months of spinal fusion surgery. This article states that many golfers actually improve their scores after performing the surgery. https://ryortho.com/2015/07/golfers-play-better-after-spine-fusion-arthroscopy-safe-effective-for-mdi-of-the-shoulder-and-more/

Stacy Lewis played on the LPGA tour and was the top rated American female and won a major after having spinal fusion surgery on her back. She was ranked #1 in the world I think back in 2014. I know each and every situation is different but it's clear many golfers have back surgery...some even fusion surgery and able to come back and perform at a high level. I just don't equate what Tiger has achieved (so far) to be that of Peyton Manning. If I have a bias its that Manning's accomplishment to me is far and away superior to most recoveries. He plays a FULL contact sport and he came back to break all time records, win mvp, and SB. That's quite a level to aspire too....Tiger has a lot of ground to catch up. Also I only reply because no one else cares enough to...but if your going to put Tiger on Peyton's level of recovery....something I think that was truly miraculous....a qb with a broken neck playing football....and who can't feel his finger tips who has to use them to throw the ball.....yeah Tiger better do something pretty special to live up to that comparision. At this point its offensive to me that you put them on the same level. Tiger hasn't won anything. When he wins a major I will give credit. I have a feeling that will be on the Champions Tour before that happens....just my humble opinion.

 

5 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

  And, no offense, but the comment about Lindsey Vonn (who wasn't with Tiger during his back surgery recovery) suggests you're just trolling this thread.  Just stirring the pot.

 

True? 

I have no clue when they were or weren't together. They were all over the tabloids and red carpets and taking trips etc. Seemed he was walking just fine. I've never once seen him in a wheel chair. I'm sure right after the surgery he probably was. Acting like the guy couldn't walk I think is exaggerating imo. I'll leave the thread for someone else to comment. However it's been a month and a half and no one else has bothered tells me that there isn't much interest in your thread. At least my (trolling) kept it bumped lol.

[oldunclemark]

Lord no.    Tiger not being able to walk last summer  is not exaggerating.....

Major back surgery. You cant walk..Obviously.   I know you know that.

 

There it is again. It seems you aren't serious when I talk about Tiger not being able to walk 9 months ago and you say he was 'running around' with a women he hadnt been around for over a year

..and arthritis is as bad as back fusion......Not being able to walk after back surgery is exaggerating............its.comedy........Just sounds like you're not serious........just trolling. 

Just 'bumping my thread' as you say.

 

Again. That's okay. Nothing wrong with trolling........You are not required to make a serious argument....ever

Just keep bumping and stirring the pot.      Its all good

Edited April 24, 2018 by oldunclemark

[crazycolt1]

6 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

Lord no.    Tiger not being able to walk last summer  is not exaggerating.....

Major back surgery. You cant walk..Obviously.   I know you know that.

 

There it is again. It seems you aren't serious when I talk about Tiger not being able to walk 9 months ago and you say he was 'running around' with a women he hadnt been around for over a year

..and arthritis is as bad as back fusion......Not being able to walk after back surgery is exaggerating............its.comedy........Just sounds like you're not serious........just trolling. 

Just 'bumping my thread' as you say.

 

Again. That's okay. Nothing wrong with trolling........You are not required to make a serious argument....ever

Just keep bumping and stirring the pot.      Its all good

You have a serious man crush on Tiger Woods. 

What you don't seem to understand is Woods is not even close to being as popular with his fans or should I say ex fans as he once was. His personal life soured a lot of his fans away.

It is the media right now who is making a big deal out of him right now, not fans of his.

[dgambill]

18 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

Lord no.    Tiger not being able to walk last summer  is not exaggerating.....

Major back surgery. You cant walk..Obviously.   I know you know that.

 

There it is again. It seems you aren't serious when I talk about Tiger not being able to walk 9 months ago and you say he was 'running around' with a women he hadnt been around for over a year

..and arthritis is as bad as back fusion......Not being able to walk after back surgery is exaggerating............its.comedy........Just sounds like you're not serious........just trolling. 

Just 'bumping my thread' as you say.

 

Again. That's okay. Nothing wrong with trolling........You are not required to make a serious argument....ever

Just keep bumping and stirring the pot.      Its all good

Mark then why don't you take the merits of the more serious parts of my arguments. Namely the fact that spinal fusion does not mean a death of a golfer....many come back to play better and even the case of Stacy Lewis who became an LPGA major champion and made it to the top of her profession. Golf is a non-contact sport....it is night and day different from grown 300 lb men falling on you and throwing you to the ground over and over. I understand the forces that are applied to Tigers back....incredible when he swings...but there are numerous examples of golfers undergoing back surgery and recovering. I even gave you the example of Davis Love III who had spinal fusion in his neck....actually more similar to Peyton's actually and he made it back and won on tour. Tiger and Peyton are elite.....were at the top of their relative sports when they were hurt. One rose back to greatness and achieved performances even greater than what he did before....the other finished 2nd in like the Honda Classic....I'll give Tiger credit for HIS comeback when he wins a major...because if he doesn't then its a nice story but in the grand scheme of things its not awe inspiring....so forgive me if I don't go get all worked up over the fact his latest comeback attempt resulted in him making a cut at the masters. He is not back....he may never be back (THE TIGER). I am not even sure he can master the mental aspect of the game much less the physical of playing a full tour which I doubt he does. I don't believe Tiger will ever finish #1 again...and I have huge doubts he will win another major. That's my bar for him....and I'm pretty sure that's his bar for himself too. He made comebacks before and everyone made a huge deal out of it....and then he went away again. Look I don't hate Tiger but to me Tiger has been irrelevant when it comes to the bigger picture of majors and being elite at the top of the game. The sports writers and media and sponsors love him because he sells to the masses...uneducated watchers....but that's it. Personally, I hope he wins something...he has put a lot of work in and I want to see him get his life back together. I don't know the man but obviously what he did to his family its very very hard for me to respect that aspect of him. So no....I don't suck up all the hype anymore...I've moved on past him and I think he has a long long way to go to have a recovery the likes of Peyton Mannings...again...that is more on what I think of Peyton's then what I think of Tiger by a long shot.

[oldunclemark]

  'Take the more serious parts of the argument?

Okay..trolling aside....

You're arguing that you don't like him so you dont want to accept that Tiger has overcome a career ending injury...

Three Top-12s in 5 starts...He's back......Peyton's Broncos were 2-3 after 5 games....same thing

But he's back...Longer off the tee than before...Contending almost every week...after 5 tournaments....again..5 tournaments

 

Not what he was yet?. Sure.  he's 42...(Peyton never regained his physical gifls) Bjt early I his comeback he's  highly competitive against the next generation...just like Peyton.

They both came back and found a game that many had said they'd never find.

 

You list a lot of problems you have with him (mentally weak, appealing to the uneducated, hurt his family) You have a lot other issues with him.....and I keep telling you,..that's okay.....Many people do.  You set a bar 'you' set. 'you' have issues. You say you don't respect him.

So I know why you've posted 10 times arguing against the obvious.

I know you know that your arguments are more about you than him. Him getting credit for coming back bothers you.  When I mention him and Peyton in the same thought, it bothers you.

I do understand.  Its okay.

 

But he couldnt walk 10 months ago and he's in the Top-20 of PGA players in the world..

After major back surgery  he's in his 40 competing with guys in their 20s.

I invite you to continue to down grade that fact...but it wont change the issues you have with him.

Or his comeback.....which really has nothing to do with those issues

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 25, 2018 by oldunclemark

[crazycolt1]

3 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

  'Take the more serious parts of the argument?

Okay..trolling aside....

You're arguing that you don't like him so you dont want to accept that Tiger has overcome a career ending injury...

Three Top-12s in 5 starts...He's back......Peyton's Broncos were 2-3 after 5 games....same thing

But he's back...Longer off the tee than before...Contending almost every week...after 5 tournaments....again..5 tournaments

 

Not what he was yet?. Sure.  he's 42...(Peyton never regained his physical gifls) Bjt early I his comeback he's  highly competitive against the next generation...just like Peyton.

They both came back and found a game that many had said they'd never find.

 

You list a lot of problems you have with him (mentally weak, appealing to the uneducated, hurt his family) You have a lot other issues with him.....and I keep telling you,..that's okay.....Many people do.  You set a bar 'you' set. 'you' have issues. You say you don't respect him.

So I know why you've posted 10 times arguing against the obvious.

I know you know that your arguments are more about you than him. Him getting credit for coming back bothers you.  When I mention him and Peyton in the same thought, it bothers you.

I do understand.  Its okay.

 

But he couldnt walk 10 months ago and he's in the Top-20 of PGA players in the world..

After major back surgery  he's in his 40 competing with guys in their 20s.

I invite you to continue to down grade that fact...but it wont change the issues you have with him.

Or his comeback.....which really has nothing to do with those issues

 

 

 

 

 

Look, I think you are pushing an issue that not too many care about. Woods and what he did in his personal life does effect what and how people feel about him.

If you are a golf type of guy it's fine to build him up but for the most part not too many care.

Take away the fact that the media is making such a big deal out of Woods and those fans or ex fans of his have grown tired of him.

Putting him in the same category as Peyton Manning is a huge stretch for anyone to buy especially in a football forum.

Just the fact that this thread has very little response should tell you that not too many care.

Sorry, you are barking up the wrong tree here if you expect some to agree with you that Woods needs to be in the Peyton Manning category.

Manning had the best season of his career after his surgery. Not only that he went to two super bowls. I know he was carried by his team his last win but it changes nothing. There is a huge difference between playing a game where you are being hit by 300 lb. men trying to knock you out of the game over a non contact sport. There is no comparison.

 

[oldunclemark]

On ‎4‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 12:08 AM, crazycolt1 said:

Look, I think you are pushing an issue that not too many care about. Woods and what he did in his personal life does effect what and how people feel about him.

If you are a golf type of guy it's fine to build him up but for the most part not too many care.

Take away the fact that the media is making such a big deal out of Woods and those fans or ex fans of his have grown tired of him.

Putting him in the same category as Peyton Manning is a huge stretch for anyone to buy especially in a football forum.

Just the fact that this thread has very little response should tell you that not too many care.

Sorry, you are barking up the wrong tree here if you expect some to agree with you that Woods needs to be in the Peyton Manning category.

Manning had the best season of his career after his surgery. Not only that he went to two super bowls. I know he was carried by his team his last win but it changes nothing. There is a huge difference between playing a game where you are being hit by 300 lb. men trying to knock you out of the game over a non contact sport. There is no comparison.

 

CC, I know you don't post things for people to agree with you. Neither do I.

 

Tiger's injury and his recovery from that are very similar to Peyton's injury and his recovery in that both were seem to be career-ending injuries for star athletes....past their prime.  The odds they overcame. The body motions (Throwing for Peyton, swinging for Tiger) they had to redesign for themselves were massive.  

The comparison is obvious no matter who you do or don't like..   

 

Who likes the media or golf vs. football..or his personal life are not something you can write about if you want.  But that's not what I wrote about.

 

The stature of Peyton and Tiger's staure in their game..their physical fall and the comebacks..are obviously very, very similar..

Edited April 28, 2018 by oldunclemark

[dgambill]

On ‎4‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 8:43 PM, oldunclemark said:

  'Take the more serious parts of the argument?

Okay..trolling aside....

You're arguing that you don't like him so you dont want to accept that Tiger has overcome a career ending injury...

Three Top-12s in 5 starts...He's back......Peyton's Broncos were 2-3 after 5 games....same thing

But he's back...Longer off the tee than before...Contending almost every week...after 5 tournaments....again..5 tournaments

 

Not what he was yet?. Sure.  he's 42...(Peyton never regained his physical gifls) Bjt early I his comeback he's  highly competitive against the next generation...just like Peyton.

They both came back and found a game that many had said they'd never find.

 

You list a lot of problems you have with him (mentally weak, appealing to the uneducated, hurt his family) You have a lot other issues with him.....and I keep telling you,..that's okay.....Many people do.  You set a bar 'you' set. 'you' have issues. You say you don't respect him.

So I know why you've posted 10 times arguing against the obvious.

I know you know that your arguments are more about you than him. Him getting credit for coming back bothers you.  When I mention him and Peyton in the same thought, it bothers you.

I do understand.  Its okay.

 

But he couldnt walk 10 months ago and he's in the Top-20 of PGA players in the world..

After major back surgery  he's in his 40 competing with guys in their 20s.

I invite you to continue to down grade that fact...but it wont change the issues you have with him.

Or his comeback.....which really has nothing to do with those issues

 

 

 

 

 

The bar is Peyton Manning.....who came back and won league mvp, set passing records, won sb. Not come back. You compared him to Peyton...not me. To have a comeback of Peytons caliber shouldn't he have to win something? Shouldn't he have to break records, finish the year #1 ranking, and win a major at some point? You set the bar...not me. That said I'm sure that is Tiger's bar too...so I'm not setting it any higher than he would for a comeback. If he finishes his career and never wins another tournament or especially a major....I'd say he considers his comeback failed....just like the previous comebacks in the past 10 years where he hasn't been able to regain his form. Personal feelings aside that is the bar....I don't care about him personally. And yes it bothers me to mention them together...because one accomplished something incredible to get back to the top of their sport again...the other nothing yet. I've heard these Tiger is back things for 10 years....he ain't back yet....when he starts winning I'll say he is back....simple as that...one has won something...made it back to the pinnacle of their sport when they came back....the other finished like 2nd at the Honda classic or whatever....hasn't won a tournament, a major, nor finished the year number 1. No hard feelings but don't you see a huge difference between accomplishments and degree of a comeback?? Not just that they make it back to the sport but to what extent they do. Also the sports are totally different. Like I said...maybe use Stacy Lewis of the LPGA who had spinal fusion in her lower back (metal rods in it) and came back after years to win a major and become the greatest US female golfer in the world....maybe that is a good comparison to Tiger since they play the same sport....but then again...she won a major...Tiger hasn't. No hard feelings for me....just a bad comparison is all.

[oldunclemark]

5 hours ago, dgambill said:

The bar is Peyton Manning.....who came back and won league mvp, set passing records, won sb. Not come back. You compared him to Peyton...not me. To have a comeback of Peytons caliber shouldn't he have to win something? Shouldn't he have to break records, finish the year #1 ranking, and win a major at some point? You set the bar...not me. That said I'm sure that is Tiger's bar too...so I'm not setting it any higher than he would for a comeback. If he finishes his career and never wins another tournament or especially a major....I'd say he considers his comeback failed....just like the previous comebacks in the past 10 years where he hasn't been able to regain his form. Personal feelings aside that is the bar....I don't care about him personally. And yes it bothers me to mention them together...because one accomplished something incredible to get back to the top of their sport again...the other nothing yet. I've heard these Tiger is back things for 10 years....he ain't back yet....when he starts winning I'll say he is back....simple as that...one has won something...made it back to the pinnacle of their sport when they came back....the other finished like 2nd at the Honda classic or whatever....hasn't won a tournament, a major, nor finished the year number 1. No hard feelings but don't you see a huge difference between accomplishments and degree of a comeback?? Not just that they make it back to the sport but to what extent they do. Also the sports are totally different. Like I said...maybe use Stacy Lewis of the LPGA who had spinal fusion in her lower back (metal rods in it) and came back after years to win a major and become the greatest US female golfer in the world....maybe that is a good comparison to Tiger since they play the same sport....but then again...she won a major...Tiger hasn't. No hard feelings for me....just a bad comparison is all.

 The goal is not being the MVP

............

 Comparing a team victory with an individual victory is again, not the issue that I am speaking of.

Peyton had help winning the MVP (2 years into his comeback) Tiger is an individual.Its a bad comparison.

They both came back through their own will and determination....in the face of overwhelming odds

To me, (and lets face it, it was my comparsion) the bar is not winning.the tournaments you say he should win..

......its coming back and competing with players a generation younger than you.  That's what Peyton did.

I appreciate you looking for another parallel..but Stacy Lewis had back surgery in college and she's 27.   She had scoliosis.....(Spinal curving) and they corrected it...

Not the same thing as Tiger and Peyton/ Not hardly

Tiger has had 4 back surgeries....(Peyton had 4 neck surgeries and he was mid-30s, which is the football equivalent of golf in your 40s) and he's 42/. Stacy had one and she's young right now.... Tiger and Peyton were old when they had the surgeries and they had multiple surgeries.

They both were hurt playing and both were told they shouldn't risk a comeback.

All credit to Stacy..but she as a kid

 

I say again. Tiger wasnt walking last fall (similar to the way Peyton could not throw)..he's finishing in the Top-10

Again...Peyton was 3-3 after 6 games and folks like me were very worried about him.

I appreciate that you and I wanted Peyton to win win but that;s not the point at all.

The paralells between Peyton after 5 games and Tigers going into his 6th tourney..(this week....make sure to watch!) both advanced in age...both former champs..both with 4 proceedures.....both arguably the best ever.......are glaring.

 

I don't believe you see absolutely no similarities .......Its simply that you like Peyton and 'don't care about" Tiger. Perfectly fine (although you do write a lot about someone you don't care about).    Its okay. 

You don't have to try to convince me you're judging them fairly....You admit your bias.  Its okay..  It really is.

 

But you're obviously looking at 2 dogs and calling one of them a cat..   A 'Big Cat'

Edited May 1, 2018 by oldunclemark

[dgambill]

Stacey had spinal fusion...same thing as Tiger. Her reason for it doesn't matter. Because she was injured or because of being born that way. Fact is spinal fusion surgery is not career ending for a golfer....for a football player....it very well can be but we've even seen others come back in football (Just not to the level Peyton did). We just see this completely different...and it doesn't make me biased because I do. It's my honest opinion that for me to say Tiger's comeback is on the same level of what Peyton achieved coming back I need to see Tiger rise back to the top of his sport and win....do things like he did before he had the surgery. To me it's not a comeback if you don't get BACK to what you were before. Otherwise we say the comeback fell short. Adrian Peterson had a comeback from his ACL tear and was MVP...2000 yd rusher....that is a comeback. Andre Agassi having wrist surgery and comeback in his 30s to complete the grand slam. Tommy John who came back and won 164 more games. Ben Hogan who was in one of the most horrific auto crashes (hit by a bus) broken clavicles, ribs, pelvic fractures and other injuries galore came back and won multiple majors after. Fact is we remember guys for coming back and winning something...that is what makes it a famous comeback. So I put Peyton's recovery and comeback in this group of special ones listed above. If Tiger can come back and win majors then I will happily include him. Just because I may not have a favorable view of someone it doesn't mean I don't recognize their greatness. Whether it was Kobe or Lebron or Ray Lewis etc etc...I recognize their greatness. Same for Tiger.....but that was the old Tiger...the comeback Tiger to me is JAG....until he wins at an elite level I'm not going to sit her and marvel at him. I appreciate all the work he has done to make it back...to put himself back into the spot light and risk ridicule and failure...but his come back doesn't measure up to the greats....if you would have just said you marvel at his comeback and didn't compare it to anyone elses...I would say yes its pretty remarkable...but you went and compared it to one of the greatest medical comebacks in sports history....so it that regard...it falls short as of now. That's all @oldunclemark  Please don't think this is personal or anything...I respect you and I respect Tiger...but I just see it on a whole different level I guess.

[NFLfan]

1 hour ago, dgambill said:

Please don't think this is personal or anything...I respect you and I respect Tiger.

 

You made it personal when you mentioned Woods not being injured enough to run around with women (I am paraphrasing). That marred all your subsequent posts. 

 

I was surprised when I read that comment from you, as you never come across as the sensationalist type. That comment reminded me a bit of when my sister and I were watching the Super Bowl one year. She asked me in an angry tone, "Isn't that the guy that left his pregnant girlfriend for Gisele?" I had no idea.

 

We all have opinions. Mark calls it a comeback. You don't see it that way. Just agree to disagree.

 

(Btw, you had asked about changing my avatar since Teddy was no longer a Viking. I finally changed it.)

[dgambill]

7 hours ago, NFLfan said:

 

You made it personal when you mentioned Woods not being injured enough to run around with women (I am paraphrasing). That marred all your subsequent posts. 

 

I was surprised when I read that comment from you, as you never come across as the sensationalist type. That comment reminded me a bit of when my sister and I were watching the Super Bowl one year. She asked me in an angry tone, "Isn't that the guy that left his pregnant girlfriend for Gisele?" I had no idea.

 

We all have opinions. Mark calls it a comeback. You don't see it that way. Just agree to disagree.

 

(Btw, you had asked about changing my avatar since Teddy was no longer a Viking. I finally changed it.)

I just meant it was nothing personal with Mark...and honestly while I lost respect for Tiger as a man I still respect him as a golfer. I thought it was a funny joke about running around with women given his history and the fact Mark acted like he would never walk again after his surgery. I felt and still do that he is over hyping the surgery as many golfers have had spinal surgery and recovered from back injuries before and yet nobodies is significant enough to compare to Tigers...even when I pointed out a nice young lady golfer she had spinal fusion surgery from a bad back due to scoliosis and returned and won a major and got to number 1 in the world....in the same sport....she has rod in her back but that isn’t a good enough comparison for what Tiger should achieve to consider it a successful comeback but Mark already put Tiger on Peyton’s level when Peyton actually achieved incredible success after his surgery and Tiger hasn’t yet. To me...we aren’t comparing the same thing...I don’t care the names....leave those out. Compare player A cane back and went to two SBs winning 1, set all time TD records, set single season TD and yardage record and won an MVP. Compare player B...finished 2nd at the Farmers Inventational and like 10th at the Masters basically finishing his final day as the leaders were teeing off. Tell me are these two alike. Can Player B get to player A....sure but he isn’t yet.  That was my difference. I shouldn’t have thrown the poorly worded joke about Tigers personal life in there. That was why I asked Mark to take the serious parts of my post and not focus on a throw away line. I apologize for the remark but I think it still doesn’t change the facts of my arguement...but he got hung up on one snide remark and choose to emphasize it over all the other facts of my opinion. I don’t care we disagree...I just don’t want my opinion to be defined by my personal opinion of Tiger personally...I’ve heard from the other golfers on tour he is extremely likable and nice....I just ask to define my opinion on the 99% of the rest of what I said. Guess it can’t be since I took a small joke at his expense but I don’t think I was being unfair.

 

Like your avatar...hope you guys represent the NFC this year....it’s a great team that got better imo. I heard bad news  that Teddy might not pass his physical and he might not make the team. I’ll be sad for him if he never makes it fully back.

[NFLfan]

51 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Like your avatar...hope you guys represent the NFC this year....it’s a great team that got better imo. I heard bad news  that Teddy might not pass his physical and he might not make the team. I’ll be sad for him if he never makes it fully back.

 

Okay, I get your point. It is a valid one. I think Mark and you won't agree on this.

 

As for Teddy, yes, I heard that too. That is unfortunate. He is such a nice and classy guy. His faith will help him get through this.

[dgambill]

36 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

Okay, I get your point. It is a valid one. I think Mark and you won't agree on this.

 

As for Teddy, yes, I heard that too. That is unfortunate. He is such a nice and classy guy. His faith will help him get through this.

Yep...probably won’t agree lol...that is why we have this emoji lol . 

 

I agree...Teddy is a class act. He will land on his feet.

[oldunclemark]

Tiger wins the 4-week PGA Tour playoffs...….at age 42....Outstanding

…….Beats all the best players of this generation

 

Tiger and Peyton..

The 2 greatest sports comebacks of all time...