Lance Zierlein: There are at least two teams that want that pick(#3) to pick Josh Allen

[stitches 8,422]

He was answering a question about his latest mock where he had the Colts and Cleveland swapping 3 and 4 so CLE can take Josh Allen. He was asked why CLE would do that and he said that it's because there are at least two more teams who want to trade for that pick at 3, so Browns would have to outbid the rest. 

 

 

i thought it's interesting and worth its own thread. We very likely will have good market for that pick if Josh Allen is available. 

[chad72 7,395]

If that is the case, I do not trade down any further than the #6 spot where we could still land Chubb or Nelson.

[pgt_rob 734]

Good news for us. I hope we rob somebody to move out of #3.

[NewColtsFan 9,258]

 

I'm glad my man Stitches is all over Lance Zeirlein.

 

And here is another juicy tidbit from Zeirlein...

 

In his NFL.com mock,  this is what he wrote for the Colts pick....     cutting and pasting here....

 

 

PROJECTED TRADE WITH BROWNS. If The Colts get a big offer, I'm sure they would move further back in the first round. In this scenario, the Colts could move back one spot and still get Chubb. However, trading back again could be in the cards for the Colts as the board shakes out and GM Chris Ballard looks to stockpile draft picks.

 

Remembering that Zeirlein is a good friend of Chris Ballard,  read that passage several times.   He mocks a trade with Cleveland whose new GM,  John Dorsey,  used to be Ballard's boss at KC.    

 

And he suggests that Ballard is open to moving back further if he gets a "big offer"....

 

I don't think Zeirlein writes any of this without Ballard's approval.    I think this is Ballard sending up as much smoke as possible to see who is interested.    I think it's interesting that Ballard might be willing to move out of range of both Chubb and Nelson and perhaps even out of the top-10.     He must have his eye on someone he thinks is a top-10 player,   but may be undervalued by others and so might be there in the middle of Round one....   

 

I think this is the most important info we have seen about the Colts this off-season.

 

Ths is not a guarantee that anything would happen.    But I think it says Ballard may be very aggressive about making something happen....

 

 

[Four2itus 5,034]

I would be downright amazed if Chubb or Nelson were available at #6. I think neither...actually. 

[Shafty138 1,432]

4 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

I would be downright amazed if Chubb or Nelson were available at #6. I think neither...actually. 

well, there are probably 3 QB's and Barkley going in the first 5 picks.... stands to reason that one of them will be there

 

[GoColts8818 4,688]

All depends on how the draft goes and what other teams have to offer.  For example it’s great the Bills have two first round picks but they are in the 20s so I doubt that would interest the Colts.  

 

Trading with the Browns or Broncos or even the Jets would be options but it depends on what they will give up. 

[BProland85 1,511]

18 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

I would be downright amazed if Chubb or Nelson were available at #6. I think neither...actually. 

 

Completely disagree. QBs always go early, and OGs never go top 5. 

[BProland85 1,511]

6 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

All depends on how the draft goes and what other teams have to offer.  For example it’s great the Bills have two first round picks but they are in the 20s so I doubt that would interest the Colts.  

 

Trading with the Browns or Broncos or even the Jets would be options but it depends on what they will give up. 

 

I agree I want Ballard to be talking with 3 teams more so than any other. Cleveland, Denver, and the Jets. That would still put them in position to get either Chubb or Nelson after the trade down, and would give them extra draft picks (2nds/3rds). Now if a team like Miami offers up a major draft haul, including multiple picks and a 2019 1st involved, then I may consider that as well. 

[chad72 7,395]

22 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

I would be downright amazed if Chubb or Nelson were available at #6. I think neither...actually. 

 

No one thought Malik Hooker would be available where we got him last year that rarely any mock had him at our spot.  

[stitches 8,422]

25 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I'm glad my man Stitches is all over Lance Zeirlein.

 

And here is another juicy tidbit from Zeirlein...

 

In his NFL.com mock,  this is what he wrote for the Colts pick....     cutting and pasting here....

 

 

PROJECTED TRADE WITH BROWNS. If The Colts get a big offer, I'm sure they would move further back in the first round. In this scenario, the Colts could move back one spot and still get Chubb. However, trading back again could be in the cards for the Colts as the board shakes out and GM Chris Ballard looks to stockpile draft picks.

 

Remembering that Zeirlein is a good friend of Chris Ballard,  read that passage several times.   He mocks a trade with Cleveland whose new GM,  John Dorsey,  used to be Ballard's boss at KC.    

 

And he suggests that Ballard is open to moving back further if he gets a "big offer"....

 

I don't think Zeirlein writes any of this without Ballard's approval.    I think this is Ballard sending up as much smoke as possible to see who is interested.    I think it's interesting that Ballard might be willing to move out of range of both Chubb and Nelson and perhaps even out of the top-10.     He must have his eye on someone he thinks is a top-10 player,   but may be undervalued by others and so might be there in the middle of Round one....   

 

I think this is the most important info we have seen about the Colts this off-season.

 

Ths is not a guarantee that anything would happen.    But I think it says Ballard may be very aggressive about making something happen....

 

 

For the record someone on twitter asked him if Ballard told him that and he said he doesn't speak with Ballard anymore:

 

 

[Fisticuffs111 1,994]

I remember seeing a rumor that the Broncos were big on Josh Allen.

It'd be great if the Browns pick Barkley at #1 and then we have Cleveland/Denver/possibly another team all fighting to trade up to #3.

[stitches 8,422]

Just now, Fisticuffs111 said:

I remember seeing a rumor that the Broncos were big on Josh Allen.

It'd be great if the Browns pick Barkley at #1 and then we have Cleveland/Denver/possibly another team all fighting to trade up to #3.

Elway supposedly sees himself in Josh Allen... 

[DaColts85 508]

32 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

I don't think Zeirlein writes any of this without Ballard's approval.    I think this is Ballard sending up as much smoke as possible to see who is interested.    I think it's interesting that Ballard might be willing to move out of range of both Chubb and Nelson and perhaps even out of the top-10.     He must have his eye on someone he thinks is a top-10 player,   but may be undervalued by others and so might be there in the middle of Round one....   

This is getting a little crazy here.  I can almost guarantee that Zeirlein writes whatever he wants without CB's approval.  This is not a puff piece to help CB and the Colts.  Not at all.

[DougDew 2,597]

38 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I'm glad my man Stitches is all over Lance Zeirlein.

 

And here is another juicy tidbit from Zeirlein...

 

In his NFL.com mock,  this is what he wrote for the Colts pick....     cutting and pasting here....

 

 

PROJECTED TRADE WITH BROWNS. If The Colts get a big offer, I'm sure they would move further back in the first round. In this scenario, the Colts could move back one spot and still get Chubb. However, trading back again could be in the cards for the Colts as the board shakes out and GM Chris Ballard looks to stockpile draft picks.

 

Remembering that Zeirlein is a good friend of Chris Ballard,  read that passage several times.   He mocks a trade with Cleveland whose new GM,  John Dorsey,  used to be Ballard's boss at KC.    

 

And he suggests that Ballard is open to moving back further if he gets a "big offer"....

 

I don't think Zeirlein writes any of this without Ballard's approval.    I think this is Ballard sending up as much smoke as possible to see who is interested.    I think it's interesting that Ballard might be willing to move out of range of both Chubb and Nelson and perhaps even out of the top-10.     He must have his eye on someone he thinks is a top-10 player,   but may be undervalued by others and so might be there in the middle of Round one....   

 

I think this is the most important info we have seen about the Colts this off-season.

 

Ths is not a guarantee that anything would happen.    But I think it says Ballard may be very aggressive about making something happen....

 

 

This forum is starting to fall in love with a few top players.  As if the draft will be a failure if we don't get one. That's bad.

 

There's nothing wrong with picking #12, as long as you get a bunch of other draft picks with it.

 

Come the week after the draft, we'll forget about the top tier guys and will be talking about all of the good guys we got in rounds 2 through 4 and maybe a few draft picks next year.

[DougDew 2,597]

16 minutes ago, BProland85 said:

 

Completely disagree. QBs always go early, and OGs never go top 5. 

I predict a LB or DL other than Chubb will go before Nelson.

[TonyBungee 181]

My guess is that Ballard is more than willing to draft Chubb at #3, so he doesn't need to be aggressive in looking to trade back.  He can just sit back & watch the offers roll in (and they will).  In the end, I think someone makes him an offer that he can't refuse.

[LockeDown 1,323]

It all comes down to how much Ballard values Chubb if he is there at 3.  You don’t trade back if he’s the next great pass rusher.  If he is just a good player then yes  you trade back.

[chad72 7,395]

30 minutes ago, TonyBungee said:

My guess is that Ballard is more than willing to draft Chubb at #3, so he doesn't need to be aggressive in looking to trade back.  He can just sit back & watch the offers roll in (and they will).  In the end, I think someone makes him an offer that he can't refuse.

 

True. It is going to take a 1 and 2 at minimum at least to move from 3 to 5 or 6 and two first round picks with a 2nd and/or a 3rd to move from 3 to outside the Top 10.

[shasta519 2,957]

2 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I'm glad my man Stitches is all over Lance Zeirlein.

 

And here is another juicy tidbit from Zeirlein...

 

In his NFL.com mock,  this is what he wrote for the Colts pick....     cutting and pasting here....

 

 

PROJECTED TRADE WITH BROWNS. If The Colts get a big offer, I'm sure they would move further back in the first round. In this scenario, the Colts could move back one spot and still get Chubb. However, trading back again could be in the cards for the Colts as the board shakes out and GM Chris Ballard looks to stockpile draft picks.

 

Remembering that Zeirlein is a good friend of Chris Ballard,  read that passage several times.   He mocks a trade with Cleveland whose new GM,  John Dorsey,  used to be Ballard's boss at KC.    

 

And he suggests that Ballard is open to moving back further if he gets a "big offer"....

 

I don't think Zeirlein writes any of this without Ballard's approval.    I think this is Ballard sending up as much smoke as possible to see who is interested.    I think it's interesting that Ballard might be willing to move out of range of both Chubb and Nelson and perhaps even out of the top-10.     He must have his eye on someone he thinks is a top-10 player,   but may be undervalued by others and so might be there in the middle of Round one....   

 

I think this is the most important info we have seen about the Colts this off-season.

 

Ths is not a guarantee that anything would happen.    But I think it says Ballard may be very aggressive about making something happen....

 

 

 

I would hope Ballard and Dorsey being friends wouldn't keep Ballard from leveraging that pick to its max. If the NYJ are offering their 2nd and 3rd round picks, I am not letting CLE have that pick for a 3rd round pick.

 

I can't wait to see Ballard manipulate all of this. I am really starting to come around on taking one of  Edmunds/Fitzpatrick/James and accumulating multiple extra day two picks. 

[shasta519 2,957]

2 hours ago, stitches said:

He was answering a question about his latest mock where he had the Colts and Cleveland swapping 3 and 4 so CLE can take Josh Allen. He was asked why CLE would do that and he said that it's because there are at least two more teams who want to trade for that pick at 3, so Browns would have to outbid the rest. 

 

 

i thought it's interesting and worth its own thread. We very likely will have good market for that pick if Josh Allen is available. 

 

Boner alert.

[Manning1887 1]

I am more than happy to trade back with a team willing to give up their 2019 1st (among other picks) and then have Josh Allen lead them in 2018. More than likely that 2019 1st will be a top ten pick. 

[shasta519 2,957]

1 hour ago, BProland85 said:

 

I agree I want Ballard to be talking with 3 teams more so than any other. Cleveland, Denver, and the Jets. That would still put them in position to get either Chubb or Nelson after the trade down, and would give them extra draft picks (2nds/3rds). Now if a team like Miami offers up a major draft haul, including multiple picks and a 2019 1st involved, then I may consider that as well. 

 

Swap with CLE to #4 for a pair of day two picks...and then use DEN/NYJ to strong arm MIA into giving up the same PLUS next year's 1st.

[IndyScribe 212]

Josh Allen seems like an Elway guy, so Broncos make sense. Maybe Dolphins too. If Ballard gets an offer he can't refuse, that's the way to go.

[shasta519 2,957]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

This forum is starting to fall in love with a few top players.  As if the draft will be a failure if we don't get one. That's bad.

 

There's nothing wrong with picking #12, as long as you get a bunch of other draft picks with it.

 

Come the week after the draft, we'll forget about the top tier guys and will be talking about all of the good guys we got in rounds 2 through 4 and maybe a few draft picks next year.

 

Not me. The list of players I would happily take in the 1st round has gotten pretty large. There really isn't a "player X or bust" for me...within reason.   

 

For me, it's all about who they get AND still get plenty value on day two. I want the Colts to own day two. I think they could realistically get four starters out of that group if they had the picks. 

[PeterBowman 1,476]

2 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

Not me. The list of players I would happily take in the 1st round has gotten pretty large. There really isn't a "player X or bust" for me...within reason.   

 

For me, it's all about who they get AND still get plenty value on day two. I want the Colts to own day two. I think they could realistically get four starters out of that group if they had the picks. 

This........there really isn't great value after the top of the draft but there's a BUNCH in rounds 2 and 3.... especially 2.

[DougDew 2,597]

32 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

Not me. The list of players I would happily take in the 1st round has gotten pretty large. There really isn't a "player X or bust" for me...within reason.   

 

For me, it's all about who they get AND still get plenty value on day two. I want the Colts to own day two. I think they could realistically get four starters out of that group if they had the picks. 

If we traded down and got some seconds and thirds this draft and next, and wound up with Roquan Smith or a #1 CB, I think that would be better than having any of the elite players spoken about.

[DougDew 2,597]

56 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

True. It is going to take a 1 and 2 at minimum at least to move from 3 to 5 or 6 and two first round picks with a 2nd and/or a 3rd to move from 3 to outside the Top 10.

I'd move back from 3 to 6 just for an extra high 2nd.

[jameszeigler834 967]

3 hours ago, chad72 said:

If that is the case, I do not trade down any further than the #6 spot where we could still land Chubb or Nelson.

I don't want them to trade down any further than 8 if we do that then all of our targets are for sure gone.

[stitches 8,422]

Zierein is saying the two teams are Arizona and the Bills. 

 

 

[shasta519 2,957]

9 minutes ago, DougDew said:

If we traded down and got some seconds and thirds this draft and next, and wound up with Roquan Smith or a #1 CB, I think that would be better than having any of the elite players spoken about.

 

That's how I feel. If they can get one of Edmunds/Fitzpatrick/James/Ward/Smith....and at least an extra 2nd and 3rd round pick, I am good.

[Luck 4 president 857]

Trade back 3 times!!! Swap with cleveland for a 1st,2nd,3rd(they take darnold) then swap with the broncos for a 1st,2nd (they take Allen so jets can’t move past them) then trade back into mid 1st for a 1st,2nd,3rd, 2019 1st. Then we have a mid 1st, 4 2nds, 3 3rds, and a future 1st.

It won’t happen but I can dream!

[OffensivelyPC 1,119]

1 hour ago, shastamasta said:

 

Boner alert.

 

 

 

[chad72 7,395]

2 hours ago, stitches said:

Elway supposedly sees himself in Josh Allen... 

 

That is the mistake he has made in the past. He has to see through a different lens.

 

He is overlooking the cerebral part of the game enough that he fell in love with the physical attributes of guys like Osweiler and Lynch. 

 

I peruse Broncos forums from time to time and one of their senior posters had this to say while discussing having Peyton as a GM (while Elway becomes President of Football Operations):

 

"I don't mean to be disrespectful in regards to Elway, but I get the sense he was not much of the cerebral, detail-oriented QB. He was more like a gut-it-out QB relying on his elite physical tools. Elway never had the best mechanics and I don't think he was like a coordinator/coach on the field. That's probably why Elway believed so much on Brock Osweiler and Paxton Lynch with those physical attributes. "

 

Peyton Manning is on another level in terms of football knowledge, attention to detail and perfecting mechanics. He even evaluated some players in the draft and told the Colts which players he liked. I can't see Peyton Manning approving a goofy, aloof, immature QB like Paxton Lynch in the 1st round. I believe Peyton would grind these college QBs on tape and during interviews and identify the guys with intangibles, maturity and leadership traits to command an NFL locker room. 

[Fisticuffs111 1,994]

28 minutes ago, stitches said:

Zierein is saying the two teams are Arizona and the Bills. 

Hm. Trading back to 15 or 21 (and possibly 22) doesn't seem as enticing but maybe they make it worth it.

15 isn't extremely far back but it seems further back than what most would probably want.

[NewColtsFan 9,258]

3 hours ago, stitches said:

For the record someone on twitter asked him if Ballard told him that and he said he doesn't speak with Ballard anymore:

 

 

 

Interesting.....

 

I don't know if he's saying he doesn't speak to him during draft season or is that their new normal.

 

I'm also not 100 percent sure I believe it....     but for now I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

But I'll say this....   Zierlein has been a big Bradley Chubb guy.    He predicted Chubb would be a top-3 pick before any other person who does personnel and mocks.      And now,  here's Zeirlein saying the Colts will happily trade back once, maybe twice and collect a haul of picks RATHER THAN draft Chubb.    And he says he doesn't talk to Ballard anymore.     Hmmmm?

 

[IndyScribe 212]

31 minutes ago, stitches said:

Zierein is saying the two teams are Arizona and the Bills. 

 

 

Interesting. I wouldn't trade back to the Bills unless there's a lot of compensation, like both first round picks this year, a first next year, and a couple day 2 picks. The Cardinals would be a better trade down spot. Lose out on Nelson/Barkley/Chubb, but other talent is available, like Edmunds. The haul would have to be good too to make it worth it.

[NewColtsFan 9,258]

2 hours ago, DaColts85 said:

This is getting a little crazy here.  I can almost guarantee that Zeirlein writes whatever he wants without CB's approval.  This is not a puff piece to help CB and the Colts.  Not at all.

 

Puff piece?    It's a few sentences about a team he's well connected to.

 

Approval may not be the right word....   and LZ is now denying that this comes from Ballard.

 

But I wouldn't be at all surprised if Ballard puts that out there knowing it will be used....   CB is raising the Colts profile to let everyone know we're shopping the 3rd pick....    and we're doing it hard...

 

[stitches 8,422]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Interesting.....

 

I don't know if he's saying he doesn't speak to him during draft season or is that their new normal.

 

I'm also not 100 percent sure I believe it....     but for now I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

But I'll say this....   Zierlein has been a big Bradley Chubb guy.    He predicted Chubb would be a top-3 pick before any other person who does personnel and mocks.      And now,  here's Zeirlein saying the Colts will happily trade back once, maybe twice and collect a haul of picks RATHER THAN draft Chubb.    And he says he doesn't talk to Ballard anymore.     Hmmmm?

 

It seems like they are still friendly since he says they exchange texts about the Rockets every now and then but Ballard proably has a ton of work right now. 

[IndyScribe 212]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Interesting.....

 

I don't know if he's saying he doesn't speak to him during draft season or is that their new normal.

 

I'm also not 100 percent sure I believe it....     but for now I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

But I'll say this....   Zierlein has been a big Bradley Chubb guy.    He predicted Chubb would be a top-3 pick before any other person who does personnel and mocks.      And now,  here's Zeirlein saying the Colts will happily trade back once, maybe twice and collect a haul of picks RATHER THAN draft Chubb.    And he says he doesn't talk to Ballard anymore.     Hmmmm?

 

I think you're reading too much into it. Predictions are predictions, they're not sure things. He might predict it on stuff he's heard, but that doesn't mean it's 100% true. A lot  can change between now and the draft. There are also two teams before us. My guess is that he's heard from sources, rather than Ballard himself. I doubt Ballard would "happily" trade back unless the haul is really good. He might be talking to other teams to see what he can get.