If we are going to be trading back...

[stitches 8,412]

I've been thinking about this... if we are going to be trading back in this year's draft I think we should target teams in transition willing to trade their next year's draft pick.

I know it's too early, but I've been going through some of the next year's prospects and the defensive line talent is insane. Much better than this year's IMO.

 

All the Clemson linemen will most likely be entering the draft. Ed Oliver who is an absolute beast of a 3tech has already declared for the 2019 draft and Nick Bosa who looks better than his brother so far will likely enter the draft, Rashan Gary from Michigan will enter the draft. Alabama's Raekwon Davis who wrecked the championship game will be draft eligible. The Miami pass-rusher Joe Jackson who wrecked Mike McGlinchey this year will be draft eligible... I bet others will rise and some of those will fall, but overall the class seems incredibly strong at the top with defensive linemen.

 

So my idea is... if a team like Miami, that seems like is in flux... a team that would trade up with us in order to get their QB of the future, a team that will start a rookie QB and doesn't seem particularly strong in any area... a team that is likely to appear in next year's top 10 picks... if this type of team wants to trade up... ask for their next year's first rather than a bunch of this year's picks.

 

Same example with Miami - ask for #11 this year, next year's first and a third this year and a third next year. Yes you will not get the main bunch of the value this year, but IMO you will get much better value in next year's draft. Delayed gratification, guys and gals! It's associated with a ton of positive results and I believe it will be true even in the case of the NFL draft. 

[BProland85 1,507]

I’d be all for trading back where we could get a 1st next year, and still be in position to get a Quenton Nelson this year. 

[ColtsBlitz 399]

This is how GMs think. If we get to our pick and the trade banner comes up on the TV, I’ll be excited to see who with and what we get. 

 

We need to get one of the main 3 discussed

[Boiler_Colt 1,431]

I'm all on the Chubb bandwagon but if they're gone, picking up a 2019 first and possibly getting a Nelson or Edmunds is a great start.

[ColtsBlitz 399]

*Double post*

[shasta519 2,956]

Depending on how far they trade down...they could possibly make this happen. I really like a lot of players on day two, but a future 1st is a potential windfall (CLE's #4 pick was supposed to be in the 20s).

 

I would like to see the Colts trade down twice...and accrue 3 extra day two picks and a future 1st...AND still get one of the top two guys at DE (Chubb, Davenport), S (Fitzpatrick, James), CB (Ward, Jackson) or ILB (Edmunds, Smith).

 

Could you imagine how fun that day two would be with five picks?

[OffensivelyPC 1,119]

The only problem with that theory is that there are just too many moving parts.  Some of the talent goes back to school another year, the team you trade with might exceed expectations.  And if both those things even somehow don't happen, you still have to address other concerns that might happen between the end of this year's draft and when the clock starts on the pick you received in next year's draft, such as injuries, unforeseen red flags such as arrests, someone trades up and takes the guy you had on the board.  

 

In theory, I think it works great, but if there's one thing I know about football, the plans change practically every minute of every day.   I just think it's easier to plan out a prospects career for the next 3-4 years than it is to plan out what a college prospect will do with one year left in college plus another 3-4 years, and how 31 other NFL teams might complicate that process in a draft one year from now.

 

Obviously that doesn't mean you shouldn't plan ahead, but you should plan knowing that those plans will change tomorrow.

[DougDew 2,597]

With injury risks, I don't think you make trade decisions based upon the availability of one or two players next year.  I think you need to look at the overall quality of next year's draft class. 

 

Not to mention our plans could go awry if another team covets the players and jumps ahead of us next year.

[NewColtsFan 9,221]

8 minutes ago, DougDew said:

With injury risks, I don't think you make trade decisions based upon the availability of one or two players next year.  I think you need to look at the overall quality of next year's draft class. 

 

Not to mention our plans could go awry if another team covets the players and jumps ahead of us next year.

 

One or two guys next year?   Stitches listed 8 guys....   at the least that should be food for thought...

[NewColtsFan 9,221]

My concern for this concept is that I think we will have to trade back too far in order to get a one next year.    That's a high price.    

 

I'd like to move back...   I just doubt I want to move THAT far back...

[Manning1887 1]

It would seem like the Jets' 2019 pick has potential to be the highest pick, particularly if they are trading up for Josh Allen.

 

But...if the Browns go with Chubb at #1 to pair with Garrett and the Giants go with Barkley, then the Colts could trade back with the Broncos for a package including their 1st in 2019 THEN the Colts could also trade back with the Jets, possibly only for their 2019 1st and in this scenario the Jets would get one of the top 3 QBs in the draft. The Colts could still get Quenton Nelson in this scenario.

[Clem-Dog 137]

Miami's 2019 1st is equivalent to a 2nd this year, same process goes for their 2019 3rd.  In total the present value of your scenario equates to receiving a 2018:

1st 

2nd (2019 1st)

3rd

4th  (2019 3rd)

 

I know it sounds like a lot but going off the trade value chart Miami would still be about 169 points short.  The same value as a 2018 mid-3rd or 2019 mid-2nd.  

 

An equivalent trade would be our #3 overall for Miami 2018 1st - 3rd & 2019 1st - 2nd.  Outgoing value Colts- 2200.  Outgoing value Miami - 2180. 

 

Since they are 20 pts short, and a premium should be attainable, in order to complete the trade I'd want either their 2018 4th or Jarvis Landry on a reasonable deal (11-12 per).

[stitches 8,412]

7 hours ago, DougDew said:

With injury risks, I don't think you make trade decisions based upon the availability of one or two players next year.  I think you need to look at the overall quality of next year's draft class. 

 

Not to mention our plans could go awry if another team covets the players and jumps ahead of us next year.

My point was the overall strength of the class. I don't rely on one player there to think it will be much better draft for the defensive line next year. There is a whole bunch of players who I think could be really really good. Some of them won't be, some will get injured, others will rise, the point is as it stands right now it looks like a pretty good defensive class next year. 

[Superman 9,397]

7 hours ago, Manning1887 said:

It would seem like the Jets' 2019 pick has potential to be the highest pick, particularly if they are trading up for Josh Allen.

 

But...if the Browns go with Chubb at #1 to pair with Garrett and the Giants go with Barkley, then the Colts could trade back with the Broncos for a package including their 1st in 2019 THEN the Colts could also trade back with the Jets, possibly only for their 2019 1st and in this scenario the Jets would get one of the top 3 QBs in the draft. The Colts could still get Quenton Nelson in this scenario.

 

Jets are probably going to sign Cousins.

[NewColtsFan 9,221]

54 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Jets are probably going to sign Cousins.

 

And you think this based on.............??

 

What are you reading?

 

I keep reading Vikings with Broncos the runner-up...

 

[crazycolt1 7,556]

7 hours ago, Manning1887 said:

It would seem like the Jets' 2019 pick has potential to be the highest pick, particularly if they are trading up for Josh Allen.

 

But...if the Browns go with Chubb at #1 to pair with Garrett and the Giants go with Barkley, then the Colts could trade back with the Broncos for a package including their 1st in 2019 THEN the Colts could also trade back with the Jets, possibly only for their 2019 1st and in this scenario the Jets would get one of the top 3 QBs in the draft. The Colts could still get Quenton Nelson in this scenario.

IMO if the Browns don't take a QB with the #1 pick they are going to take Barkley, not Chubb.

[NewColtsFan 9,221]

14 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

IMO if the Browns don't take a QB with the #1 pick they are going to take Barkley, not Chubb.

 

Yes.....    but if Cleveland DOES take a QB...   then my concern about trading back a bit with Denver is that if Barkley is already taken by the NY Giants,  and we trade back with Denver at 5....     Cleveland sittng at 4 would take Chubb to play at LDE and pair him with Garrett.

 

So...  you might have...

 

1.   Cleve       QB

2.   NYG        Barkley

3.   Denver    QB

4.   Cleve       Chubb

5.   Colts        ????     Nelson?     I'd be fine with that...     but if our goal was to trade back and still get Chubb,  I think there's a decent chance it doesn't happen.

 

Nelson would be a fine consolation prize....    but that assumes Ballard might not still by-pass Nelson and focus on the best remaining defensive player to get faster on that side of the ball...

 

[crazycolt1 7,556]

9 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Yes.....    but if Cleveland DOES take a QB...   then my concern about trading back a bit with Denver is that if Barkley is already taken by the NY Giants,  and we trade back with Denver at 5....     Cleveland sittng at 4 would take Chubb to play at LDE and pair him with Garrett.

 

So...  you might have...

 

1.   Cleve       QB

2.   NYG        Barkley

3.   Denver    QB

4.   Cleve       Chubb

5.   Colts        ????     Nelson?     I'd be fine with that...     but if our goal was to trade back and still get Chubb,  I think there's a decent chance it doesn't happen.

 

Nelson would be a fine consolation prize....    but that assumes Ballard might not still by-pass Nelson and focus on the best remaining defensive player to get faster on that side of the ball...

 

I think they are going to take Barkley at #1 myself. Then go with a QB at #4.

[southwest1 2,092]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

Jets are probably going to sign Cousins.

If Cousins does that, he will never come close to a Championship. I get the most guaranteed money angle I guess. But, Minnesota or Denver have better stability as franchises. Kirk will be making the biggest mistake of his professional career if he signs with gang green. 

 

I know; I know not every QB is driven to win hardware, but the Jets are a joke to me & that organization isn't known for longterm playoff success at all beyond Joe Namath & Mark Sanchez for a couple of seasons. A huge mistake if Kirk signs on that dotted line. 

[NewColtsFan 9,221]

7 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I think they are going to take Barkley at #1 myself. Then go with a QB at #4.

 

OK.....

 

So....   for fun....   make a projection...    if Cleveland takes Barkley 1st....    then what?

 

1.     Barkley

2.     NYG

3.    Colts

4.    Cleveland

5.    Denver

6.    NYJets

 

 

Make trades if you like...    give certain teams a QB in FA if you like...    but make a projection here and let's see what you get....

 

[crazycolt1 7,556]

5 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

If Cousins does that, he will never come close to a Championship. I get the most guaranteed money angle I guess. But, Minnesota or Denver have better stability as franchises. Kirk will be making the biggest mistake of his professional career if he signs with gang green. 

 

I know; I know not every QB is driven to win hardware, but the Jets are a joke to me & that organization isn't known for longterm playoff success at all beyond Joe Namath & Mark Sanchez for a couple of seasons. A huge mistake if Kirk signs on that dotted line. 

IMO it would be hard not to want to play at Minnesota. The Vikings have a very good team in place. A beautiful top of the league venue. And not a too tough division to play in.

[southwest1 2,092]

1 minute ago, crazycolt1 said:

IMO it would be hard not to want to play at Minnesota. The Vikings have a very good team in place. A beautiful top of the league venue. And not a too tough division to play in.

Exactly CC1. HC Zimmer will give any starting QB a solid defense, all your home games are indoors, & the Vikings under Mike always give Rogers fits. 

 

Could you imagine what a rock star Cousins would be in Minnesota if was brought home a Lombardi Trophy? Holy Moly Man! A sports God! He'd never pay for another meal again in his life. 

[crazycolt1 7,556]

2 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

OK.....

 

So....   for fun....   make a projection...    if Cleveland takes Barkley 1st....    then what?

 

1.     Barkley

2.     NYG

3.    Colts

4.    Cleveland

5.    Denver

6.    NYJets

 

 

Make trades if you like...    give certain teams a QB in FA if you like...    but make a projection here and let's see what you get....

 

Way too many scenarios for me to even get into that. I have already read so many scenarios it's mind boggling.

[southwest1 2,092]

35 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I think they are going to take Barkley at #1 myself. Then go with a QB at #4.

I'd hate to see Barkley go to the Browns since that team can barely win a game. I do like HC Hue Jackson & I realize he's got to win this yr say 10 games or he's fired. I'm torn because I don't wanna see Hue released since the league has so few black head coaches & I don't want to see Barkley run for an irrelevant franchise. 

 

I'm not rooting for the Browns to fail. I just expect them to out of habit & familiarity I guess. 

[crazycolt1 7,556]

16 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

I'd hate to see Barkley go to the Browns since that team can barely win a game. I do like HC Hue Jackson & I realize he's got to win this yr say 10 games or he's fired. I'm torn because I don't wanna see Hue released since the league has so few black head coaches & I don't want to see Barkley run for an irrelevant franchise. 

 

I'm not rooting for the Browns to fail. I just expect to out of habit & familiarity I guess. 

I honestly see a big change for the Browns over the next couple of years. Dorsey has too good of a history with scouting and drafting for the Packers and then on to the Chiefs. He drafted players like Rogers, Matthews and Jennings at Green Bay and Kelce, Morse, Hill, Hunt and Mahomes at Kansas City. He has hands on history of knowing what to do to build very good teams.

On a side note; Dorsey has already said he is willing to deal the #1 pick. That is interesting to me. 

[Jared Cisneros 3,781]

2 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I honestly see a big change for the Browns over the next couple of years. Dorsey has too good of a history with scouting and drafting for the Packers and then on to the Chiefs. He drafted players like Rogers, Matthews and Jennings at Green Bay and Kelce, Morse, Hill, Hunt and Mahomes at Kansas City. He has hands on history of knowing what to do to build very good teams.

On a side note; Dorsey has already said he is willing to deal the #1 pick. That is interesting to me. 

Dorsey wants to keep the Browns flush with picks over the years until they rebuild is my guess, and the best way to do that is to trade down from the no1 pick. They will still have two 1st round picks this year if they do, and could get extra picks this year and next if they wanted as well. 

[stitches 8,412]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Yes.....    but if Cleveland DOES take a QB...   then my concern about trading back a bit with Denver is that if Barkley is already taken by the NY Giants,  and we trade back with Denver at 5....     Cleveland sittng at 4 would take Chubb to play at LDE and pair him with Garrett.

 

So...  you might have...

 

1.   Cleve       QB

2.   NYG        Barkley

3.   Denver    QB

4.   Cleve       Chubb

5.   Colts        ????     Nelson?     I'd be fine with that...     but if our goal was to trade back and still get Chubb,  I think there's a decent chance it doesn't happen.

 

Nelson would be a fine consolation prize....    but that assumes Ballard might not still by-pass Nelson and focus on the best remaining defensive player to get faster on that side of the ball...

 

I think the pick is either Minkah or Roquan/Edmunds there... 

[crazycolt1 7,556]

5 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Dorsey wants to keep the Browns flush with picks over the years until they rebuild is my guess, and the best way to do that is to trade down from the no1 pick. They will still have two 1st round picks this year if they do, and could get extra picks this year and next if they wanted as well. 

I haven't seen anyone bring this up but if Dorsey is willing to trade the #1 pick I wonder if the Colts might be interested? If Ballard does value Barkley that much it just makes me wonder? 

Very interesting scenario for sure.

[Jared Cisneros 3,781]

1 minute ago, crazycolt1 said:

I haven't seen anyone bring this up but if Dorsey is willing to trade the #1 pick I wonder if the Colts might be interested? If Ballard does value Barkley that much it just makes me wonder? 

Very interesting scenario for sure.

I honestly would hope not. I don't see enough difference in our case to trade from #3 to #1 to get Barkley 100% guaranteed. I would rather take Nelson at #3 if it came down to it. We'd probably have to give up something like our 2nd rounder and a 3rd next year to do that, and in that scenario, I'd rather just take Chubb or Nelson, or even just trade down if Barkley was who Ballard wanted.

 

I think of this scenario as the Bears scenario with Trubisky last year trading up 1 spot with the 49ers. Except we'd be trading up for an RB instead of a QB and giving up even more in an RB strong class. Ryan Pace panics and does stuff like that for the Bears as their GM because he doesn't let the board come to him and panics. I hope Ballard doesn't fall into that trap, and by the looks of last year, by how he let Hooker come to him, I don't think he will.

[NewColtsFan 9,221]

11 minutes ago, stitches said:

I think the pick is either Minkah or Roquan/Edmunds there... 

 

I'd buy into the two linebackers....   both interest me greatly....

 

But, as much as I like Minkah....    and I do....   it's just hard for me to believe that the first two first round picks in the Chris Ballard era are both.....   safeties....

 

Just can't wrap my brain around that....

 

[southwest1 2,092]

6 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Dorsey wants to keep the Browns flush with picks over the years until they rebuild is my guess, and the best way to do that is to trade down from the no1 pick.

Cleveland does like to stockpile picks for some strange reason which always bewilders me. This approach is okay for 1 yr if a new GM wants the ammo to move up & get their QB of the future, but it feels like the Browns collect picks & then misfire when they finally select somebody in recent yrs. 

 

I just have no faith in the Browns to make sound draft decisions at all. Man, I feel horrible for Joe Thomas. If anything, he'll retire before they even get mildly competent IMO. What can Brown do for you? Absolutely nothing. #Not A Believer

[Jared Cisneros 3,781]

1 minute ago, southwest1 said:

Cleveland does like to stockpile picks for some strange reason which always bewilders me. This approach is okay for 1 yr if a new GM wants the ammo to move up & get their QB of the future, but it feels like the Browns collect picks & then misfire when they finally select somebody in recent yrs. 

 

I just have no faith in the Browns to make sound draft decisions at all. Man, I feel horrible for Joe Thomas. If anything, he'll retire before they even get mildly competent IMO. What can Brown do for you? Absolutely nothing. #Not A Believer

I do have more confidence in Dorsey than their other GM's, but I agree they manage to always do nothing with something. Give them an ounce of gold and it will dissolve. Give them 10 draft picks and they will all bust, LOL! I think Dorsey will do some things right tbh. The big question is, do they take a QB early, and if so, is it with the 1st or 4th pick? Something has to change in Cleveland, and it starts at the QB position.

[crazycolt1 7,556]

12 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

Cleveland does like to stockpile picks for some strange reason which always bewilders me. This approach is okay for 1 yr if a new GM wants the ammo to move up & get their QB of the future, but it feels like the Browns collect picks & then misfire when they finally select somebody in recent yrs. 

 

I just have no faith in the Browns to make sound draft decisions at all. Man, I feel horrible for Joe Thomas. If anything, he'll retire before they even get mildly competent IMO. What can Brown do for you? Absolutely nothing. #Not A Believer

So you think Dorsey will repeat the past mistakes?  I just cant fathom it myself. Not with his track record.

Dorsey just got hired with some pretty sweet things going on for him this season. 5 picks in the first two rounds and 12 picks total. The nice things about those picks is they are all clustered together.  He also has more cap money available to him than any other GM in the league.

I just have a feeling the days of the Browns being dissed are coming to an end.

[southwest1 2,092]

3 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I do have more confidence in Dorsey than their other GM's, but I agree they manage to always do nothing with something. Give them an ounce of gold and it will dissolve. Give them 10 draft picks and they will all bust, LOL! I think Dorsey will do some things right tbh. The big question is, do they take a QB early, and if so, is it with the 1st or 4th pick? Something has to change in Cleveland, and it starts at the QB position.

I roared with laughter when I read the line highlighted in red JC 

 

Yes, a new GM might help even I can't dismiss that. How many yrs have they been drafting field generals now? You know that scroll of text during new Star Wars movies that takes a while to come into focus? Think longer & s-l-o-w-e-r. That's the Browns. 

[southwest1 2,092]

5 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I just have a feeling the days of the Browns being dissed are coming to an end.

That assumes of course that Dorsey can construct a roster good enough to take down the Ravens & Steelers. Let's not get carried away with delusions of grandeur now. Even the problem child Bengals franchise has more going for it than the Browns. 

[crazycolt1 7,556]

2 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

That assumes of course that Dorsey can construct a roster good enough to take down the Ravens & Steelers. Let's not get carried away with delusions of grandeur now. Even the problem child Bengals franchise has more going for it than the Browns. 

The Ravens are nothing to be scared of. The Bengals are still the Bengals. Big Ben is all but done for the Steelers.

Dorsey's tract record has shown he is fully capable of building a winning team.

Well will see.

[southwest1 2,092]

2 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

The Ravens are nothing to be scared of. The Bengals are still the Bengals. Big Ben is all but done for the Steelers.

Dorsey's tract record has shown he is fully capable of building a winning team.

Well will see.

What do you mean Big Ben is done? He's not retiring yet he just wanted Todd Haley gone from Pittsburgh my friend. 

 

Joe Flacco is like Eli Manning--lack luster regular season but if the Ravens back into the playoffs...Uh oh...

 

I can't really defend the Bengals since they always find a way to blow it. The Cowboys of the AFC. Colin Cowherd calls ANDY Dalton the former Red Rifle that's now more like a water pistol. LOL! Harsh, but still funny. 

 

Could Dorsey change fortunes in Cleveland? Perhaps. This isn't a Rams cinderella story though with a formidable defense though. It's like pulling a rusty frame from a junk yard & rebuilding a pristine muscle car from scratch. No thank you. 

[stitches 8,412]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I'd buy into the two linebackers....   both interest me greatly....

 

But, as much as I like Minkah....    and I do....   it's just hard for me to believe that the first two first round picks in the Chris Ballard era are both.....   safeties....

 

Just can't wrap my brain around that....

 

I don't think Ballard cares about any of this. I think he will draft whoever he thinks will be the best player/value for the Colts. And I think with our move to the new system Minkah will have more value than a simple safety. He can play every single position at DB and most of them he can be elite at. He will also allow us to move him around in sub-packages and give different looks to opponents. That's if you don't think he can play outside CB... (BTW if you think Minkah cannot play CB and you are still thinking about drafting him this high, IMO you need to enter Derwin James into the conversation too, because I feel like Derwin can do pretty much everything Minkah can do and he probably has even higher potential thanks to his elite athleticism). Now if you think Minkah can play outside corner - this changes the calculation altogether and tilts the value even stronger towards Minkah. 

[OhioColt 113]

This draft has the potential to be like the 2015 draft regarding OGs in which three were selected in the first round.  Too many teams need dire help with their offensive lines.  Nelson by far should be gone within the top 10 picks.  Do highly expect picks 24/25 Panthers/Titans to be very interested in taking Hernandez and Wynn.  With the Panthers and LG Norwell looking elsewhere IMO Panthers will take the chance in Round 1 to replace Norwell.  Dallas had read originally might have been interested in Hernandez but in all honesty really see Dallas with more urgent needs and BPA than taking Hernandez in Round 1.  Titans can not continue to rely on Quinton Spain who is marginally average and could see them replacing him with an OG.  Lets face it, by Round 2 the top 3 OGs should be off the board.  Not to say OTs will slide over becoming OGs and with the injury to OSU Billy Price could see his draft stock slide and be available in Round 2.

 

Apologize for the header alignment...copy/paste

 

 

Year	No.	Round	Pick	Player	Name	Team	College

2015	1	1	5	5	Brandon Scherff	Redskins	Iowa
	2	1	9	9	Ereck Flowers	Giants	Miami (FL)
	3	1	28	28	Laken Tomlinson	Lions	Duke

[NewColtsFan 9,221]

For whatever it's worth...

 

Scharff was drafted as a tackle...   he was introduced to the DC media as a tackle.  

 

In the Skins rookie camps he played tackle.   Guard was his fall-back position in case he couldn't be a good tackle. Later that season the Skins made the switch.

 

Flowers has been the Giants starting left tackle since jump street.   Not sure he's played guard at all?

 

Tomlinson was picked by Detroit and for whatever reason the Luons quickly gave up on him after two seasons.   Traded to the 49ers in the summer of 17 for a 5th round draft pick...   I'm a little surprised Ballard didn't move to acquire him...