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Who starts next to Hankins in the 4-3 ?


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Just wondering what some posters thought about this ? Figured it's a good conversation. There's several possibilities and I'm gonna throw em all out there then speak my peace on the subject So yeah. Woods and Anderson most logical choices. OR. Maybe Ridgeway reaches his potential and breaks out ? He's super talented. I loved that pick and thought he could end up being one of, if not the best DT in that class. And like many other players. Could he be a better fit and thrive in the 4 man front ? Or the opposite ? We have no clue what Stewart will be. I'm not sold on him, but I may be wrong and he may be a breakout player. OK. So then there's the FA route. Several big time DT's on the market and 1-2 pretty good ones. But Wilkerson, Richardson, Poe, Logan, Lotulelei mainly. Kyle Williams is like 35 so yeah. Then there's the unknown situation of Nick Fairley. If he's able to play I'd snatch him up in a second for a cheap 1 year deal. But who knows if he's gonna be able to play again. Then there's the most unlikely possibility of us using a high pick and getting our guy in the 2nd-3rd. There's week 1 starting DT's available every year in the 2nd. Sometimes the 3rd, but I STRONGLY doubt we draft a DT before the 4th unless there's a guy who we just cant pass on in RD2. Tavin Bryan would be hard to pass up in RD2. He's a top 25 talent and has all pro potential IMO. But lastly. Yeah. Sure a trade is possible, but yeah. No. But anyways. Al Woods was just awesome last year. He came here and balled out. Best year of his career. Henry Anderson was also pretty good. He also got injured again. He still hasn't reached that superstar level DT that myself and several others were thinking he would reach after he was just brilliant in his rookie season, but he's still been good, and he still has the potential to become that monster. He's just 26, and entering his 4th season. Had the ACL injury that set his development back. But how does he look in a 4-3 ? I don't know to be honest, and really all anyone can do is guess. I still have high hopes and expectations. He just looked destined to become a pro bowl caliber player his rookie year.

 

But my opinion on who starts next to big Hank. My guess is Al Woods. At least to start out with. Unless Anderson or possibly Ridgeway comes in and just absolutely dominates in camp and preseason. If Woods isn't the same player as last year then Anderson or possibly Ridge takes over. but I think Hankins and Woods are going to be tough as nails in the middle. stuffing the run. And btw. Put Chubb at DE and all of the sudden we have a very good DL. But yeah Hankins could/should be even better as he'll be back in his comfort zone that is the 43. If Anderson can stay healthy and be as productive in a 43 we basically have 3 really good starting caliber DT's. But my guess on the DT's we have on the final 53 week 1..... I'd say we roll with Hankins, Woods, Anderson, Ridgeway, and Stewart as our DT's and address DT in the 2019 draft baring something beautiful like a combo Anderson and Ridgeway breakout campaign lol.

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13 minutes ago, COLTS449 said:

Just wondering what some posters thought about this ? Figured it's a good conversation. There's several possibilities and I'm gonna throw em all out there then speak my peace on the subject So yeah. Woods and Anderson most logical choices. OR. Maybe Ridgeway reaches his potential and breaks out ? He's super talented. I loved that pick and thought he could end up being one of, if not the best DT in that class. And like many other players. Could he be a better fit and thrive in the 4 man front ? Or the opposite ? We have no clue what Stewart will be. I'm not sold on him, but I may be wrong and he may be a breakout player. OK. So then there's the FA route. Several big time DT's on the market and 1-2 pretty good ones. But Wilkerson, Richardson, Poe, Logan, Lotulelei mainly. Kyle Williams is like 35 so yeah. Then there's the unknown situation of Nick Fairley. If he's able to play I'd snatch him up in a second for a cheap 1 year deal. But who knows if he's gonna be able to play again. Then there's the most unlikely possibility of us using a high pick and getting our guy in the 2nd-3rd. There's week 1 starting DT's available every year in the 2nd. Sometimes the 3rd, but I STRONGLY doubt we draft a DT before the 4th unless there's a guy who we just cant pass on in RD2. Tavin Bryan would be hard to pass up in RD2. He's a top 25 talent and has all pro potential IMO. But lastly. Yeah. Sure a trade is possible, but yeah. No. But anyways. Al Woods was just awesome last year. He came here and balled out. Best year of his career. Henry Anderson was also pretty good. He also got injured again. He still hasn't reached that superstar level DT that myself and several others were thinking he would reach after he was just brilliant in his rookie season, but he's still been good, and he still has the potential to become that monster. He's just 26, and entering his 4th season. Had the ACL injury that set his development back. But how does he look in a 4-3 ? I don't know to be honest, and really all anyone can do is guess. I still have high hopes and expectations. He just looked destined to become a pro bowl caliber player his rookie year.

 

But my opinion on who starts next to big Hank. My guess is Al Woods. At least to start out with. Unless Anderson or possibly Ridgeway comes in and just absolutely dominates in camp and preseason. If Woods isn't the same player as last year then Anderson or possibly Ridge takes over. but I think Hankins and Woods are going to be tough as nails in the middle. stuffing the run. And btw. Put Chubb at DE and all of the sudden we have a very good DL. But yeah Hankins could/should be even better as he'll be back in his comfort zone that is the 43. If Anderson can stay healthy and be as productive in a 43 we basically have 3 really good starting caliber DT's. But my guess on the DT's we have on the final 53 week 1..... I'd say we roll with Hankins, Woods, Anderson, Ridgeway, and Stewart as our DT's and address DT in the 2019 draft baring something beautiful like a combo Anderson and Ridgeway breakout campaign lol.

 

 

Fair question.....

 

I guess it depends on where Hankins plays.     Some might see his size and think he's the NT.

 

But I think Hankins sees himself at the 3-tech and someone else playing the Nose.

 

So....   if this is the case,  then maybe it's Al Woods?     He quietly had a pretty decent year.

 

Or perhaps 2nd year player George Stewart.    Think he's the biggest guy on the roster.

 

But if it's Hankins on the nose,  then it could be Hassan Ridgeway....     could be Henry Anderson...   they could be the 3-tech next to a bigger nose.....

 

Lots of options.     It'll be interesting to see if we sign any free agent DL that might impact this decision.......

 

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I have been thinking about this as well, as it hasn't really been discussed much (until the Poe rumor).

 

My take. Given his desire to have competition at positions, I think there's a good chance Ballard will dip into FA. It's a fairly deep group and Ballard has placed an emphasis on the DL. Ideally, it would be someone that can collapse the pocket and pressure up the middle, but there is also value in space-eaters.

 

Fortunately, the Colts already have some nice depth at DT, so I think Ballard will have the flexibility and luxury of being patient and seeing what he can get. The market might not develop for one of the guys available (like Hankins last year) and Ballard will take advantage.

 

For example, since he is more of a space-eater, Loutelei might not be able to get the big deal he wants and has to settle for a 2-3 year deal...or something along those lines.

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36 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

 

Fair question.....

 

I guess it depends on where Hankins plays.     Some might see his size and think he's the NT.

 

But I think Hankins sees himself at the 3-tech and someone else playing the Nose.

 

So....   if this is the case,  then maybe it's Al Woods?     He quietly had a pretty decent year.

 

Or perhaps 2nd year player George Stewart.    Think he's the biggest guy on the roster.

 

But if it's Hankins on the nose,  then it could be Hassan Ridgeway....     could be Henry Anderson...   they could be the 3-tech next to a bigger nose.....

 

Lots of options.     It'll be interesting to see if we sign any free agent DL that might impact this decision.......

 

 

I'd love to see Richardson or Wilkerson, but considering DT is actually one of our stronger areas and all the other holes we have to fill I don't see it happening.

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1 hour ago, COLTS449 said:

 

I'd love to see Richardson or Wilkerson, but considering DT is actually one of our stronger areas and all the other holes we have to fill I don't see it happening.

I have some interest in adding Richardson.

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Well, according to how Ballard and Eberflus have spoken about the front so far ("we have some good elements", "it will be a multiple front", "it will be agressive", etc.) it might be an indication that they might implement something similar what Seattle did a few years ago (and what the Jaguars did last year) with their unbalanced front and LEO. Actually, the Colts already have the personnel in house for that.

 

It's a 4-3 under, with some 3-4 elements (like Seattle's famous "elephant set") with three big linemen, with a big (3-4 type) end at the strong side and a "LEO" (a smaller, "tweener") guy at the weak side. This formation overloads the strong side and "underloads" the weak side against the run. The idea is, that the 2 big guys on the strong side will stop the run (with the help of the SLB), so the other 2 linebackers (plus the safety) can focus on stopping the run on the weak side. They will have one gap responsibilities, assigned pre-snap, so they won't need to wait to decide which gap to hold/attack, they can attack their gaps immedietally.

 

Such a front could look something like this in Indy: Hankins (4? tech, 2 gaps) as "elephant" DE, Woods (0 tech, 2 gaps) as NT/DT, Ridgeway/Anderson (3 tech, 1 gap) as DT, and Sheard as LEO. Simon could play at SLB, behind / alongside with Hankins, prodiving the pass rush.The other 2 linebackers and Geathers all guard the weak side, so they help Anderson & Sheard to hold the run, who are smaller (so need help in that), but have pass rushing abilities so they both can go after the quarterback on passing downs, rushing not only from the edge but from the inside too. (Seattle did a similar thing with Red Bryant being the elephant DE, replaced by Irvin/Avril in passing downs. Hankins could play somilar role as Red Bryant did on early downs and move inside in passing downs.)

 

Of course it's a "multiple front", so it varies. All in all, I don't expect Hankins to play only as "classic" 4-3 DT, I expect him (and others) to play "all over" depending on downs and distances.

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1 hour ago, Peterk2011 said:

Well, according to how Ballard and Eberflus have spoken about the front so far ("we have some good elements", "it will be a multiple front", "it will be agressive", etc.) it might be an indication that they might implement something similar what Seattle did a few years ago (and what the Jaguars did last year) with their unbalanced front and LEO. Actually, the Colts already have the personnel in house for that.

 

It's a 4-3 under, with some 3-4 elements (like Seattle's famous "elephant set") with three big linemen, with a big (3-4 type) end at the strong side and a "LEO" (a smaller, "tweener") guy at the weak side. This formation overloads the strong side and "underloads" the weak side against the run. The idea is, that the 2 big guys on the strong side will stop the run (with the help of the SLB), so the other 2 linebackers (plus the safety) can focus on stopping the run on the weak side. They will have one gap responsibilities, assigned pre-snap, so they won't need to wait to decide which gap to hold/attack, they can attack their gaps immedietally.

 

Such a front could look something like this in Indy: Hankins (4? tech, 2 gaps) as "elephant" DE, Woods (0 tech, 2 gaps) as NT/DT, Ridgeway/Anderson (3 tech, 1 gap) as DT, and Sheard as LEO. Simon could play at SLB, behind / alongside with Hankins, prodiving the pass rush.The other 2 linebackers and Geathers all guard the weak side, so they help Anderson & Sheard to hold the run, who are smaller (so need help in that), but have pass rushing abilities so they both can go after the quarterback on passing downs, rushing not only from the edge but from the inside too. (Seattle did a similar thing with Red Bryant being the elephant DE, replaced by Irvin/Avril in passing downs. Hankins could play somilar role as Red Bryant did on early downs and move inside in passing downs.)

 

Of course it's a "multiple front", so it varies. All in all, I don't expect Hankins to play only as "classic" 4-3 DT, I expect him (and others) to play "all over" depending on downs and distances.

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1 hour ago, Peterk2011 said:

Well, according to how Ballard and Eberflus have spoken about the front so far ("we have some good elements", "it will be a multiple front", "it will be agressive", etc.) it might be an indication that they might implement something similar what Seattle did a few years ago (and what the Jaguars did last year) with their unbalanced front and LEO. Actually, the Colts already have the personnel in house for that.

 

It's a 4-3 under, with some 3-4 elements (like Seattle's famous "elephant set") with three big linemen, with a big (3-4 type) end at the strong side and a "LEO" (a smaller, "tweener") guy at the weak side. This formation overloads the strong side and "underloads" the weak side against the run. The idea is, that the 2 big guys on the strong side will stop the run (with the help of the SLB), so the other 2 linebackers (plus the safety) can focus on stopping the run on the weak side. They will have one gap responsibilities, assigned pre-snap, so they won't need to wait to decide which gap to hold/attack, they can attack their gaps immedietally.

 

Such a front could look something like this in Indy: Hankins (4? tech, 2 gaps) as "elephant" DE, Woods (0 tech, 2 gaps) as NT/DT, Ridgeway/Anderson (3 tech, 1 gap) as DT, and Sheard as LEO. Simon could play at SLB, behind / alongside with Hankins, prodiving the pass rush.The other 2 linebackers and Geathers all guard the weak side, so they help Anderson & Sheard to hold the run, who are smaller (so need help in that), but have pass rushing abilities so they both can go after the quarterback on passing downs, rushing not only from the edge but from the inside too. (Seattle did a similar thing with Red Bryant being the elephant DE, replaced by Irvin/Avril in passing downs. Hankins could play somilar role as Red Bryant did on early downs and move inside in passing downs.)

 

Of course it's a "multiple front", so it varies. All in all, I don't expect Hankins to play only as "classic" 4-3 DT, I expect him (and others) to play "all over" depending on downs and distances.

This is well said and what I am expecting as well.  I can see us moving and staying with a mix.  I highly doubt we just lineup in the classic 4-3 every down.  I can see some good 3-4/4-3 movement and hopefully a type of "Nascar" set similar to what the Giants use to run if we draft Chubb.  I think this is an area of strength and with the right scheme can allow for some good pressure on the QB.  That in turn helps all other levels.

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I think base front is going to be Anderson, Hankins, Woods and Chubb (assuming of course the Colts draft him).  That would be a stout wall against the run and still have 3 guys that can also get after the QB.  But like others have said there will be a lot of rotation and substitutions that are situational.

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4 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

I think base front is going to be Anderson, Hankins, Woods and Chubb (assuming of course the Colts draft him).  That would be a stout wall against the run and still have 3 guys that can also get after the QB.  But like others have said there will be a lot of rotation and substitutions that are situational.

 

This front has a weakness in Anderson (whoever plays behing him as SLB). He is too big to rush the passer from 5tech, but not big/strong enough to hold 2 gaps to play as "elephant". He is more suited to play as UT, playing as weak side DT at 3tech with 1 gap responsibility. So - having the same players - I think it'll be Hankins, Woods, Anderson, Chubb instead.

 

Honestly, if it's not like that, I don't see any other way to fit Anderson in a 4-3 front. If it's more 'traditional, then it could be Sheard, Hankins, Woods, Chubb (or Sheard/Chubb playing at the other sides, depending on who is better at stopping the run.). This would make Anderson the odd man out... (Which I hope won't happen because I still love that kid. He had unfortunate start of his carreer with those injuries, but I believe he can still be special.)

 

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   Sheldon Richardson is the only quality FA worth adding, and he won't come here.
And i could see Maurice Hurst or Taven Bryan being at the top of Ballard's board in rd 2 if available.
Either could earn a lot of PT as the season went along.

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Besides prolly Chubb at 3, I only see us maybe going after a ilb hopefully Burns if he's there in the 3rd. I think the defense is kinda see what we got year in transition.

 I see Sheard, Hankins, Woods, Anderson, as our starting 4-3, with Simon at Sam. 

Nickel, I see Sheard, Anderson(DT), Hankins, Chubb or Simon(DE)

Dime, I see our Nascar package of Bashem, Sheard(DT), Chubb, Mingo.

 

I do think by middle season Chubb will overtake Anderson in starting unit, Ridgeway and Stewart will get more snaps than last year but will still be rotational.

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1 hour ago, Coffeedrinker said:

I think base front is going to be Anderson, Hankins, Woods and Chubb (assuming of course the Colts draft him).  That would be a stout wall against the run and still have 3 guys that can also get after the QB.  But like others have said there will be a lot of rotation and substitutions that are situational.

 

this has been my thinking as well, though I had Sheard in Chubb's spot because I was only considering players currently on the roster.  though if Chubb gets drafted then he likely takes Sheard's spot or rotates heavily with him and Anderson.  

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We still have Ridgeway and I wouldn't mind if a 1-gap guy like B.J.Hill from NC State (Chubb's teammate) gets drafted in round 4 or later. So, I think our D-line would be stout. We might just have to invest in FA and draft for LBs because that is where our biggest shortage is.

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46 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

   Sheldon Richardson is the only quality FA worth adding, and he won't come here.
And i could see Maurice Hurst or Taven Bryan being at the top of Ballard's board in rd 2 if available.
Either could earn a lot of PT as the season went along.

 

If Maurice Hurst drops to top of round 2, absolutely get him, if he is cleared to play football, that is.

 

I think our DL depth is good enough that just drafting Chubb and a 1-gap UT would suffice. LBs would need FA and draft intervention, IMO.

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12 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

 

Fair question.....

 

I guess it depends on where Hankins plays.     Some might see his size and think he's the NT.

 

But I think Hankins sees himself at the 3-tech and someone else playing the Nose.

 

So....   if this is the case,  then maybe it's Al Woods?     He quietly had a pretty decent year.

 

Or perhaps 2nd year player George Stewart.    Think he's the biggest guy on the roster.

 

But if it's Hankins on the nose,  then it could be Hassan Ridgeway....     could be Henry Anderson...   they could be the 3-tech next to a bigger nose.....

 

Lots of options.     It'll be interesting to see if we sign any free agent DL that might impact this decision.......

 

Grover. Not George. lol :)

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11 hours ago, COLTS449 said:

BTW. Good chance Wilkerson wouldn't want to sign with a 4-3 team unless he knows he'll be playing DE. But it'd be awesome to have him in the middle getting 8-10 sacks.

would you want Wilkerson over Richardson? what about Poe?

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12 hours ago, COLTS449 said:

BTW. Good chance Wilkerson wouldn't want to sign with a 4-3 team unless he knows he'll be playing DE. But it'd be awesome to have him in the middle getting 8-10 sacks.

 

why would you say that?

 

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1 hour ago, Stoney said:

would you want Wilkerson over Richardson? what about Poe?

 

I'd take either one of them over Poe all day long. Between the 2 its hard to say. Flip a coin lol. Wilkerson is going to be his old self when he's on a new team next year, but I'd still go with Richardson if made choose.

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7 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

   Sheldon Richardson is the only quality FA worth adding, and he won't come here.
And i could see Maurice Hurst or Taven Bryan being at the top of Ballard's board in rd 2 if available.
Either could earn a lot of PT as the season went along.

Didnt hurst have heart problems

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2 minutes ago, Scott Pennock said:

I think our interior will be Hankins, Stewart, Johnson and Ridgeway as our 4 DT/UT's.....

 

Anderson and Hunt don't fit and they may find a way to trade Woods and the other two to a 3-4 team....

This was Hunts first year in a 3-4, and Anderson was DE, in Stanford which runs 4-3. They both can play inside and out. Only one who hasn't played in a 4-3 is Grover Stewart.

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24 minutes ago, Scott Pennock said:

I think our interior will be Hankins, Stewart, Johnson and Ridgeway as our 4 DT/UT's.....

 

Anderson and Hunt don't fit and they may find a way to trade Woods and the other two to a 3-4 team....

 

Why would Anderson not fit? Behind Hankins he might be the best UT/3 tech that we have

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1 hour ago, J@son said:

 

Why would Anderson not fit? Behind Hankins he might be the best UT/3 tech that we have

He isn't explosive enough as a 4-3 end and he is too tall (leverage wise) to play UT.....those 6'1 to 6'4 guards will get under his pads and he'll lose most of the time.

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1 hour ago, Matabix said:

This was Hunts first year in a 3-4, and Anderson was DE, in Stanford which runs 4-3. They both can play inside and out. Only one who hasn't played in a 4-3 is Grover Stewart.

And Hunt never played well in a 4-3 in Cincy.....see Anderson. Too tall and not explosive enough. Shorter offensive lineman get under thier pads and wash them out of the play.

 

The d coordinator at albany state ran a 4-3......just fyi in regards to Grover Stewart

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I'm actually excited to see Stewart in a 4-3 again. He's much better suited as a 3 tech in a 4-3 and I think his insanely fast get-off could help him see a decent amount of playing time.

 

I think we have a really talented DL rotation with Hankins, Woods, Anderson, Ridgeway, and Stewart. IMO, we don't need a FA splash or early draft pick along the DL.

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2 hours ago, Scott Pennock said:

And Hunt never played well in a 4-3 in Cincy.....see Anderson. Too tall and not explosive enough. Shorter offensive lineman get under thier pads and wash them out of the play.

 

The d coordinator at albany state ran a 4-3......just fyi in regards to Grover Stewart

 

You do realize that both hunt and Anderson have played both DT spots in 4 man fronts when the colts went into sub packages, right? And they both did rather well. Anderson is far more of a 1 gap penetrator... Thats why the colts switched to more of a 1 gap 34 system after drafting Anderson and parry. And yes there are some differences between 1 gapping as a 34 end and 1 gapping as a 43 UT... But they're close enough that I personally have no doubt Anderson could be an effective UT... Better than anyone we had under Dungy or Caldwell with the one possible exception of macfarland. 

 

I moamstly agree about hunt. He could probably be a good backup interior pass rusher for sub packages but I'd rather find someone with more versatility and let hunt go. 

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2 hours ago, Scott Pennock said:

And Hunt never played well in a 4-3 in Cincy.....see Anderson. Too tall and not explosive enough. Shorter offensive lineman get under thier pads and wash them out of the play.

 

The d coordinator at albany state ran a 4-3......just fyi in regards to Grover Stewart

Too tall?

That's there leverage so the OTs can't get there hands on them. Try another arguement. Plus look at Anderson's stats at Stanford 10+ sacks his last 2 years. He's been playing out of position and doing a good job.

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23 hours ago, Peterk2011 said:

 

This front has a weakness in Anderson (whoever plays behing him as SLB). He is too big to rush the passer from 5tech, but not big/strong enough to hold 2 gaps to play as "elephant". He is more suited to play as UT, playing as weak side DT at 3tech with 1 gap responsibility. So - having the same players - I think it'll be Hankins, Woods, Anderson, Chubb instead.

 

Honestly, if it's not like that, I don't see any other way to fit Anderson in a 4-3 front. If it's more 'traditional, then it could be Sheard, Hankins, Woods, Chubb (or Sheard/Chubb playing at the other sides, depending on who is better at stopping the run.). This would make Anderson the odd man out... (Which I hope won't happen because I still love that kid. He had unfortunate start of his carreer with those injuries, but I believe he can still be special.)

 

I disagree because Anderson is better at getting to the QB than most people think.  He is quick enough to get upfield and strong enough to shake the blocker once he reads the play.  Hankins doesn't have anywhere near the quickness and explosion to play DE in a 4-3.

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1 minute ago, SolidGold said:

When we spoke him into existence. 

 

oh well hell, screw Suh, let's get Aaron Donald.  Might as well go ahead and get Bobby Wagner from Seattle.  I'm thinking we grab Von Miller to solve the pass rush.  We need some help at WR so I'm thinking Deandre Hopkins.  

 

Wow I didn't realize how easy it was to construct an all-pro team just by speaking possibilities into existence.  Next 10 SBs are ours baby!

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