Tony Pauline: Hitchens to Colts and Norwell to Giants are "done deal"

[richard pallo]

I believe the Hitchens report more than the Norwell report.  I can't see Norwell wanting to go to a big city like NY and we can outbid them if Ballard wants to.  I think our overall situation is better for him than NY.  A young Luck and a Dome.  If we lose Norwell we will still pick up a couple of linemen but I think it increases the possibility we trade back and take Nelson or even take him at 3.  They have to protect Luck at all costs.  I think we get one of the top receivers and a top corner as well.  

[crazycolt1]

2 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I was also combining Norwell with some of our guys like Luck, Hilton, Kelly, and Hooker, along with whomever we take at 3 in the draft. That would give us 6 elite players and possibly one or two more depending on our 2nd rounder and whomever else we take in FA in that scenario.

That sounds great but I would be happy with just having average player who do the job they are paid to do. The problems we have had in the past is having pretty decent starters but when injuries start happening the talent level between the starters and the back ups dropped tremendously. To have depth you have to have the cap money to spend on those type of players. As a whole signing free agents is just putting on band aids till your draft class matures.

[IndyScribe]

15 minutes ago, TdungyW/12 said:

NFL insiders are saying Malcolm butler will end up with colts.

Who exactly?

 

11 minutes ago, rockywoj said:

Nelson might not get past the Broncos at 5th.

If the Broncos don't take a QB. I think QB is a lot more important, since all of their QBs since Manning left have been bad.

[IndyScribe]

6 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I believe the Hitchens report more than the Norwell report.  I can't see Norwell wanting to go to a big city like NY and we can outbid them if Ballard wants to.  I think our overall situation is better for him than NY.  A young Luck and a Dome.  If we lose Norwell we will still pick up a couple of linemen but I think it increases the possibility we trade back and take Nelson or even take him at 3.  They have to protect Luck at all costs.  I think we get one of the top receivers and a top corner as well.  

Don't forget that the Giants GM, Gettleman, was the Panthers former GM. Also, we can't make assumptions. Maybe he likes big cities like NY better. The money could be similar, but location is the deciding factor.

[rockywoj]

16 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

That would be the other problem. However, I can't see them not taking a QB at 5 when they probably will miss out on Cousins. That may lose the fanbase. They almost have to take a QB at 5.

I posted this dream scenario in a different thread, but if Nelson is the target, could you imagine ... 

 

Colts swap 3rd overall for 4th in return for one of Browns' 2nd rounders because the Browns get antsy about a QB they REALLY want, then Colts swap 4th for 5th for Bronco's 2nd either this year or next year - because Broncos have a QB sitting there that they REALLY want, but are antsy that a team will jump over them to the Colts at spot four, then Colts do it again, swapping 5th for NYJ's 6th (fearing that Miami will trade with the Colts and take the QB that the Jets still covet) for another second rounder.  Hence, Colts ultimately move from 3rd to 6th and get three second rounders in return from QB obsessed teams, and then the Colts still get Quenton Nelson at OG. 

 

Wishing!

[Track Guy]

6 hours ago, DaveA1102 said:

Ballard also mentioned one of the depth areas in the draft is interior OL so he may look to take a shot or two on some of those guys.

 

 

I read that too and it kind of scares me to be honest. We need immediate help at guard, not projects. 

[Yoshinator]

4 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

That sounds great but I would be happy with just having average player who do the job they are paid to do. The problems we have had in the past is having pretty decent starters but when injuries start happening the talent level between the starters and the back ups dropped tremendously. To have depth you have to have the cap money to spend on those type of players. As a whole signing free agents is just putting on band aids till your draft class matures.

Most of the time I agree, but Norwell is 26 and has 5 good years left where we could potentially make a run while he's still in his prime. I build through the draft, but like to fill needs with top, young players in FA. It's hard to do, and everything has to go right, but if you're not taking risks, you won't win the SB with 31 other teams also having a team. I just hope Ballard nails this draft class. We may not have another with a pick this high in a long time.

 

I also think if Ballard does his due diligence, he can find cheap FA's and UDFA's that will start (maybe 2 or 3). It doesn't all have to be higher paid guys. Keep replenishing the team every year with new layers of players from both the draft and FA, and eventually we'll have our team. I just don't know if we can build quick enough with Luck at 28 to win a SB if we continue to go slow and steady. I believe it has to be accelerated somehow, whether that be signing a couple high profile FA's, or trading down in the draft and getting multiple extra round 2 and 3 picks.

[Defjamz26]

1 hour ago, BleedBlu8792 said:

 

Giant's look to have limited cap space, so with whatever deal they are looking to give Norwell, their backs are going to be against the wall as far as draft picks/emergency money.

 

I don't understand how people complain about wanting top tier talent but fold when it comes to paying for it. With our money, I'd easily slide a contract to Norwell at 5/70 with 40 to 50 guaranteed. You have to pay to play, especially with guys of Norwell's caliber. There's no reason we can't compete with the Giants and give Norwell a better deal. Maybe he's loyal to Gettleman, but I would certainly test it.

It’s been proven that a lot of players don’t do as well on their 2nd team on a new contract. Teams end up overpaying for sub par play. The Giants couldn’t wait to sign Vernon and he hasn’t done much. The same can be said about Suh and Josh Norman. Some guys just look better in a certain system. It’s about drafting and re-signing your own guys. You sprinkle in a FA here and there but never buy big. He may not be the GM anymore, but that’s what Ted Thompson did with the Packers, and it paid off as they’re perennial playoff contenders when Rodgers is healthy for 16 games.

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, Track Guy said:

 

I read that too and it kind of scares me to be honest. We need immediate help at guard, not projects. 

They aren’t all “projects” and several can provide help immediately 

[Yoshinator]

2 minutes ago, rockywoj said:

I posted this dream scenario in a different thread, but if Nelson is the target, could you imagine ... 

 

Colts swap 3 for 4 for one of Browns' 2nd rounders because the Browns get antsy about a QB they REALLY want, then Colts swap 4th for 5th for Bronco's 2nd either this year or next year - beause Broncos have a QB sitting there that they REALLY want, but are antsy that a team will jump over them to the Colts at spot four, then Colts do it again, swapping 5th for NYJ's 6th (fearing the Miami will trade with the Colts and take the QB that the Jets still covet) for another second rounder.  Hence, Colts ultimately move from 3rd to 6th and get three second rounders in return from QB obsessed teams, and then the Colts still get Quenton Nelson at OG. 

 

Wishing!

That would be insane! I actually do think we could trade down with either Denver or the Jets and get a 2 and 3 though. Your scenario would make this team flush with talent. Either way, we need Cousins to go with Minn to really start the trade talk for us.

[Fisticuffs111]

31 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

You think we can trade down and get Nelson still? If the Vikes get Cousins, I see that as a possibility. If he gets past the Giants at 2, I think he can make it to 6.

 

Yeah that's definitely possible.

Part of me is starting to think Ballard will be gunning for a trade. We all know most fans are salivating at the chance of a trade back but imagine Ballard. I think he'll be trying real hard to pick up an extra 2nd this year, there should be so much talent there.

[Track Guy]

4 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

They aren’t all “projects” and several can provide help immediately 

 

Well - I think there are a few guards in the draft who can be day one starters, yes. But do I think we're likely to find one sitting on the board by the mid rounds of the draft? History says, the odds aren't on your side. I have no problem with the idea of drafting O-lineman - in fact I'm all for it and have been for years - but relying on the "depth" of a rookie draft class to help you in the short term is gonna make me nervous. Maybe Ballard pulls it off, regardless of my being nervous!

 

I do think the guard class is really strong and I believe Quenton Nelson, Will Hernandez, Isiah Wynn are really good prospects to name a few.

[rockywoj]

36 minutes ago, rockywoj said:

I posted this dream scenario in a different thread, but if Nelson is the target, could you imagine ... 

 

Colts swap 3rd overall for 4th in return for one of Browns' 2nd rounders because the Browns get antsy about a QB they REALLY want, then Colts swap 4th for 5th for Bronco's 2nd either this year or next year - because Broncos have a QB sitting there that they REALLY want, but are antsy that a team will jump over them to the Colts at spot four, then Colts do it again, swapping 5th for NYJ's 6th (fearing that Miami will trade with the Colts and take the QB that the Jets still covet) for another second rounder.  Hence, Colts ultimately move from 3rd to 6th and get three second rounders in return from QB obsessed teams, and then the Colts still get Quenton Nelson at OG. 

 

Wishing!

And even if all that were to occur, prior I would like the Colts to get Norwell!  Back to the imagining game, could you guys imagine the OL with both Norwell AND Nelson added to the interior, flanking a healthy Ryan Kelly?  Oh what a great interior OL that would be!

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

 

Yeah that's definitely possible.

Part of me is starting to think Ballard will be gunning for a trade. We all know most fans are salivating at the chance of a trade back but imagine Ballard. I think he's going to try real hard to pick up an extra 2nd this year, there should be so much talent in the 2nd.

Absolutely, and if we get an early 2nd from a team like the Broncos or Jets, we'll have two early 2nds and may be able to get two late 1st round talents that fell into the 2nd round. Or just trade up if a top 10 talent falls to around 20 with both 2nds. Lots of possibilities.

[throwing BBZ]

2 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Well you said this forum would explode like it meant something. Just going by your own choice of words.

 

Chuckle.
This board is loaded with Fans that don't know the difference between Pro Bowl and All-Pro.
Nor have a clue about Cap Management or the value of paying market value for Premier talent.
 The id___ call it "overpaying" lmao. And they Explode daily here about the possibility of their personal concept of it.
 On an equal contract, Norwell would net several $$Million more by picking us over the Giants, based on state taxes, let alone cost of living.
 And if we should know Anything about Ballard's Mentor Irsay, who was plum Giddy Personally announcing we "HE" had OUT BID all for Gosder Cherilus, Irsay is going to be all-in for Buying a 26 year old All-Pro to put in front of LUCKY.  $$$ won't be the reason Norwell goes elsewhere.
 

[southwest1]

54 minutes ago, TdungyW/12 said:

NFL insiders are saying Malcolm butler will end up with colts.

If we do land Butler, I can't wait to play the Pats then since Malcolm will be motivated to prove that BB made a mistake not playing him in the SB. 

48 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

That would be the other problem. However, I can't see them not taking a QB at 5 when they probably will miss out on Cousins. That may lose the fanbase. They almost have to take a QB at 5.

If Cousins ends up in Minnesota, does that mean that Bridgewater is done as a starter for the Vikings? Elway better go at Kirk hard because that Broncos defense & secondary isn't getting any younger either. Talib is getting long in the tooth meaning old. He's good not great anymore. JMO. 

[throwing BBZ]

42 minutes ago, Track Guy said:

 

I read that too and it kind of scares me to be honest. We need immediate help at guard, not projects. 

 

So be scared. We have an entire bad roster to rebuild, and each year most teams successfully rely on mid round guards to build there lines with. It will be ok.
 Good coaching and a QB that gets the ____ ball out of his hands.... you know!

[richard pallo]

40 minutes ago, Track Guy said:

 

Well - I think there are a few guards in the draft who can be day one starters, yes. But do I think we're likely to find one sitting on the board by the mid rounds of the draft? History says, the odds aren't on your side. I have no problem with the idea of drafting O-lineman - in fact I'm all for it and have been for years - but relying on the "depth" of a rookie draft class to help you in the short term is gonna make me nervous. Maybe Ballard pulls it off, regardless of my being nervous!

 

I do think the guard class is really strong and I believe Quenton Nelson, Will Hernandez, Isiah Wynn are really good prospects to name a few.

I believe Mewhort was a second rd. pick and a day one starter for us.   It could happen again.

[Yoshinator]

5 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

If we do land Butler, I can't wait to play the Pats then since Malcolm will be motivated to prove that BB made a mistake not playing him in the SB. 

If Cousins ends up in Minnesota, does that mean that Bridgewater is done as a starter for the Vikings? Elway better go at Kirk hard because that Broncos defense & secondary isn't getting any younger either. Talib is getting long in the tooth meaning old. He's good not great anymore. JMO. 

I would assume that Bridgewater would be done. All 3 QB's for the Vikes are FA's now, so I'm assuming they will try to re-sign one of them as a backup to Cousins if they get him for some familiarity in case of injury. Broncos need a QB bad. I watch them every week (unless the Colts are on tv the exact same time), and their offense is putrid with all 3 QB's.

[PrincetonTiger]

7 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

So be scared. We have an entire bad roster to rebuild, and each year most teams successfully rely on mid round guards to build there lines with. It will be ok.
 Good coaching and a QB that gets the ____ ball out of his hands.... you know!

In many cases the only reason they are mid to late rounders is that they are Interior Lineman

[PrincetonTiger]

3 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I would assume that Bridgewater would be done. All 3 QB's for the Vikes are FA's now, so I'm assuming they will try to re-sign one of them as a backup to Cousins if they get him for some familiarity in case of injury. Broncos need a QB bad. I watch them every week (unless the Colts are on tv the exact same time), and their offense is putrid with all 3 QB's.

QB has become a real problem for JE and the Broncos

[DougDew]

Cousins to Vikes would be good news for a potential trade out of pick #3. 

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, PrincetonTiger said:

QB has become a real problem for JE and the Broncos

Yep, my friend who is a Broncos fan wants Nelson, but I think they will go with a QB like Allen or Darnold. Elway is under some pressure now IMO.

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

Cousins to Vikes would be good news for a potential trade out of pick #3. 

Absolutely. I see Cousins as a guy who would go to the better team that is close to winning a SB without the QB in the Vikes than a team who is rebuilding in the Jets. Cousins wants to win, he is a loyalty guy. If the Vikes give him that, he will sign on the dotted line.

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Yep, my friend who is a Broncos fan wants Nelson, but I think they will go with a QB like Allen or Darnold. Elway is under some pressure now IMO.

As a Chiefs fan I chuckle a little 

[PrincetonTiger]

3 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Absolutely. I see Cousins as a guy who would go to the better team that is close to winning a SB without the QB in the Vikes than a team who is rebuilding in the Jets. Cousins wants to win, he is a loyalty guy. If the Vikes give him that, he will sign on the dotted line.

If he wants a SB chance it would be with the Vikes not Jets or Broncos

[southwest1]

3 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I would assume that Bridgewater would be done. All 3 QB's for the Vikes are FA's now, so I'm assuming they will try to re-sign one of them as a backup to Cousins if they get him for some familiarity in case of injury. Broncos need a QB bad. I watch them every week (unless the Colts are on tv the exact same time), and their offense is putrid with all 3 QB's.

Exactly JC, Lynch looks like a complete bust, Osweiler can't duplicate his backup hold the fort down role under Manning's last yr, & Seimian is a back up at best. If I was Cousins, I'd pick Denver because the road to a SB is easier. Your only real competition is basically the Ravens, Steelers, & NE. The NFC has Brees, Rogers, Prescott, Wilson, Wentz, etc. etc. 

 

I love Elway man but he sucks at selecting QBs. Regarding Bridgewater, I feel bad for the kid losing his job to injury but it's a common tale in the NFL just ask Trent Green & Drew Bledsoe. 

[Yoshinator]

2 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

Exactly JC, Lynch looks like a complete bust, Osweiler can't duplicate his backup hold the fort down role under Manning's last yr, & Seimian is a back up at best. If I was Cousins, I'd pick Denver because the road to a SB is easier. Your only real competition is basically the Ravens, Steelers, & NE. The NFC has Brees, Rogers, Prescott, Wilson, Wentz, etc. etc. 

 

I love Elway man but he sucks at selecting QBs. Regarding Bridgewater, I feel bad for the kid losing his job to injury but it's a common tale in the NFL just ask Trent Green & Drew Bledsoe. 

For some reason, Elway is horrible in the draft as well. He was able to build through FA because of the acquisition of Manning, but now that he's gone, Elway has to rebuild and he is showing he can't draft. Either the Broncos have poor scouts, or Elway can't hit on his picks for the most part. He seems to go with his guys, even if they are big reaches.

 

Last year's class was horrible. 2016 was a miss on Lynch and the rest of the class had little impact. Ray was a decent pick in 2015, but besides him, that class was bad. It goes back farther than as well. Something has to happen in Denver or their future is in doubt. I'm glad we have Ballard running the show. There are a lot of GM's worse than him, and Ballard is only in his second year.

[PrincetonTiger]

6 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

For some reason, Elway is horrible in the draft as well. He was able to build through FA because of the acquisition of Manning, but now that he's gone, Elway has to rebuild and he is showing he can't draft. Either the Broncos have poor scouts, or Elway can't hit on his picks for the most part. He seems to go with his guys, even if they are big reaches.

 

Last year's class was horrible. 2016 was a miss on Lynch and the rest of the class had little impact. Ray was a decent pick in 2015, but besides him, that class was bad. It goes back farther than as well. Something has to happen in Denver or their future is in doubt. I'm glad we have Ballard running the show. There are a lot of GM's worse than him, and Ballard is only in his second year.

So true

[DougDew]

20 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

Exactly JC, Lynch looks like a complete bust, Osweiler can't duplicate his backup hold the fort down role under Manning's last yr, & Seimian is a back up at best. If I was Cousins, I'd pick Denver because the road to a SB is easier. Your only real competition is basically the Ravens, Steelers, & NE. The NFC has Brees, Rogers, Prescott, Wilson, Wentz, etc. etc. 

 

I love Elway man but he sucks at selecting QBs. Regarding Bridgewater, I feel bad for the kid losing his job to injury but it's a common tale in the NFL just ask Trent Green & Drew Bledsoe. 

All good points, but I think Denver's defense is not what it was and is probably going to get worse rather than better.  I think the Vikes are a more stable team and probably better coached. 

[MTC]

Anthony Hitchens is only 25 years old. Still has a lot of potential and growth ahead of him. Hard not to be excited for this potential signing. 

[IndyScribe]

48 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Absolutely. I see Cousins as a guy who would go to the better team that is close to winning a SB without the QB in the Vikes than a team who is rebuilding in the Jets. Cousins wants to win, he is a loyalty guy. If the Vikes give him that, he will sign on the dotted line.

I agree, but if the Jets are offering a ton of money(like making him the highest paid QB in the league), it'd give him pause. I think the Jets are the only one that can offer him what he's asking for.

[NorthernColt]

Just like Mcdaniels was a done deal too lol

[dgambill]

3 hours ago, Surge89 said:

 

He's squeezing into the first. The cowboys would be the first suitor. They've been taking him out alot lately. 

I know Cooper didn't work out for them but how much investment can they continue to put into that OL while ignoring their other glaring holes. Good for them for investing in their OL but adding an interior lineman again in the first....that's a lot to ask and they need help on that defense and at wr.

[southwest1]

40 minutes ago, DougDew said:

All good points, but I think Denver's defense is not what it was and is probably going to get worse rather than better.  I think the Vikes are a more stable team and probably better coached. 

I've always liked Mike Zimmer as a coordinator & now HC. Just as long as Cousins isn't foolish enough to play for the Jets, he will be fine. I don't care if Gang Green offers him a fully guaranteed contract. It's either the Broncos or the Vikings. 

 

I'd still like Kirk in Denver because that fanbase is a good one, the franchise spends money they're not cheapskates like say Chicago or Detroit typically are, & I like the Broncos giving Brady & NE problems at Mile High. Colorado is an awesome city too. Great music festivals out there man! 

 

I ran out of likes. Here's a few thumbs up instead DD. 

[dgambill]

1 hour ago, PrincetonTiger said:

QB has become a real problem for JE and the Broncos

Almost as bad as OL is for them. Not sure what is worse. I think Elway would like a veteran qb to come in....whether that be on of the Minnesota free agents or Cousins or get NY to trade them Peyton JR. that is what I think they would prefer...and let Lynch and company have some more time. Thus I would think Nelson would be Elways target. Even if they land a rookie qb their OL is putrid and would just get them killed.

[southwest1]

1 hour ago, Jared Cisneros said:

For some reason, Elway is horrible in the draft as well. He was able to build through FA because of the acquisition of Manning, but now that he's gone, Elway has to rebuild and he is showing he can't draft. Either the Broncos have poor scouts, or Elway can't hit on his picks for the most part. He seems to go with his guys, even if they are big reaches.

 

Last year's class was horrible. 2016 was a miss on Lynch and the rest of the class had little impact. Ray was a decent pick in 2015, but besides him, that class was bad. It goes back farther than as well. Something has to happen in Denver or their future is in doubt. I'm glad we have Ballard running the show. There are a lot of GM's worse than him, and Ballard is only in his second year.

I appreciate the feedback here since I don't actually live in Denver JC. Elway did get the Broncos to 2 SBs & won 1 of them in 2015 so, he does have some wiggle room to make a few mistakes for a few yrs at least. I'm in no position to critique their scouts but I do trust your judgement & if you say there's an evaluation problem or a communication glitch I believe you. 

 

I was kind of surprised that John was so indifferent about his recent QB misses like it didn't phase him. Part of me admires that attitude. However, keep losing your division a few more seasons & your job security is in jeopardy #7. You'd think he could pick a decent QB though. Not great but at least good enough to win division crowns, get into the playoffs, & see what happens once the post season begins. I like John & I want Denver to do well. Cousins would solve so many problems for him. 

 

Yeah, Ballard knows what the hades he's doing. I respond well to guys with quiet confidence & Ballard has that quality in spades man. 

[shasta519]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

Cousins to Vikes would be good news for a potential trade out of pick #3. 

 

It would be great news. Would open so many possibilites for draft day. I am 99% on the trade back train...Cousins to MIN confirmed and we leave the station.

[shasta519]

1 hour ago, Jared Cisneros said:

For some reason, Elway is horrible in the draft as well. He was able to build through FA because of the acquisition of Manning, but now that he's gone, Elway has to rebuild and he is showing he can't draft. Either the Broncos have poor scouts, or Elway can't hit on his picks for the most part. He seems to go with his guys, even if they are big reaches.

 

Last year's class was horrible. 2016 was a miss on Lynch and the rest of the class had little impact. Ray was a decent pick in 2015, but besides him, that class was bad. It goes back farther than as well. Something has to happen in Denver or their future is in doubt. I'm glad we have Ballard running the show. There are a lot of GM's worse than him, and Ballard is only in his second year.

 

Once Xanders left, the drafting went completely down hill.

[TdungyW/12]

3 hours ago, IndyScribe said:

Who exactly?

 

 

It was in a report on ESPN .... Mina something. At work haven’t been able to double check.